Statements II HT Build

[jwanck11]

And already my first noob question...

Is there a reason these are not bi-amp'd?

My system will be> Statements II mains and center with Monitors for the surrounds. Ultimately this will be a 9.1 system.

[Jim Holtz]

And already my first noob question...

Is there a reason these are not bi-amp'd?

My system will be> Statements II mains and center with Monitors for the surrounds. Ultimately this will be a 9.1 system.

Welcome to the Statements family!

Nope, there's no reason you can't bi-amp them if you like. Make sure the amp gain is the same to keep the speakers in the same balance as they were designed to have. Just add an extra set of binding posts and wire the bass circuit of the crossover to the extra binding posts. Very simple!

We'd love to see a build thread! :W

Jim

[jwanck11]

Awesome - Thank you. I guess what really matters though is a bi-amp set up really going to gain me anything with the Statements?

I'm in SE PA - so it will be a couple of days before I am able to get the MDF and get started! I have a question in to Meniscus - and once I hear back, I will be making the order.

I am coming from a Klipsch line up (no distinct sound stage - easily located speakers) and most recently a set of B&W 804 D2 mains - which were actually really nice, but left a chunk of the sound stage underrepresented, if not absent.

I am hopeful, anxious, and excited all wrapped neatly together.

[Jim Holtz]

Awesome - Thank you. I guess what really matters though is a bi-amp set up really going to gain me anything with the Statements?

I'm in SE PA - so it will be a couple of days before I am able to get the MDF and get started! I have a question in to Meniscus - and once I hear back, I will be making the order.

I am coming from a Klipsch line up (no distinct sound stage - easily located speakers) and most recently a set of B&W 804 D2 mains - which were actually really nice, but left a chunk of the sound stage underrepresented, if not absent.

I am hopeful, anxious, and excited all wrapped neatly together.

I've bi-amped various speakers over the years and honestly couldn't hear a difference vs one good amp with plenty of power. In the case of Statements, that would be 100+ wpc at 8 ohms which should kick you upto 150+ wpc at 4 ohms where the Statements live. More power is better!

Bi-amping makes sense if you want to run an esoteric tube/flea amp for the top end but it still has to be 4 ohm capable and the gain rate for both amps needs to be the same.

Only you know what your eventual goal is for your system and how hard core of audiophile you are. I've not found bi-amping to provide much if any return on investment for sound quality but you may.

Jim

[jwanck11]

I ordered parts to bi-amp in case I want to go that route... This set will be fed by an Outlaw 7700 through a Yamaha Cx 5100. My thought is to bi-amp the LR mains. I want to sit eyes closed on the couch and put on my Japanese imported album of Tales from Topographic Oceans in pure direct mode.... Man, I cannot wait for that moment. But, there is a long way to go to get there. Essentially everything is ordered and on the way. The snow has melted from my truck bed so it's time to pick up the MDF (or birch PW - not entirely decided yet.)

All that being the case, I ran into my first issue - I cannot find 1/2" MDF for the baffles. In fact the only 1/2 board that I can find is crappy pine. Where are you all finding 1/2" mdf - or what else can I use??

[TEK]

Do you find any mdf at all? You can always laminate together several thinner sheets!
Birch Plywood is great to use, better than MDF - can you get hold of that?

[Jim Holtz]

Sorry, I missed the 1/2" MDF question. I buy mine at Home Depot. Menards and Lowes also carry it locally. If you can't find it, just use 3/4" MDF instead which will increase the depth 1/4" so calculate that when determine veneer if you finish them that way. I'd also suggest a bit of a round over on the inside and perhaps cut the inner front baffle for the mids slightly (1/4" - 1/2") larger and be sure to round over it as well so there is a smooth transition to the mid tunnel and to avoid any tunneling effect of the mids.

This applies only to the mids. Woofers won't make a difference.

Jim

[deewan]

I'm a little late, but I bi-amped my first pair of Statements. I did all sorts of listening comparing bi-amped to single amp channel. I came away knowing I personally could not hear any difference.

[jwanck11]

Thanks guys!! I can get 3/4" mdf and also 3/4" birch or maple plywood. The price difference between all 3 is nominal (~$10/sheet). As for 1/2", the only material the local HD or Lowes has is pine plywood (roofs or sheathing) - so I guess I have no option other than 2 - 3/4" sheets of whatever for the baffles.

As for using plywood, I would like to use it for several reasons - not the least of which is airborne particles, but I am pigeon holed into veneer at that point whereas MDF has the option of painting (which I was planning on doing). Is that correct?

[jwanck11]

Thanks dewan. I actually can hear a difference with my current Klipsch speakers with bi-amping; in fact, the difference is quite remarkable. Perhaps with better drivers/cabinets/crossovers, the difference is not as great??

[jwanck11]

Score! I found 1/2" MDF, so I am going to go that direction. Leaving momentarily to pick up the material for the Center. Figure I will try that speaker first before tackling the mains. Also, I chose to build Finalists instead of the Monitors.

Is there a build / cut sheet that anyone can point me to for the Finalists?

I am hoping to have a next post where there are actually pictures to look at!

[jwanck11]

I am working on the center channel - and it is going OK. I have the baffle glued and the box and supports for the MTM together as well.

Question for those who have built the CC - Where do you have the hole for the binding posts? If it is centered, it will be right where the MTM inner box is. I assume it's offset, but would appreciate the validation one way or another from someone who has built one. Also, do you cut the BP hole before any of the main cabinet assembly or do you assemble all but the front baffle and then cut it out?

I am taking pictures and will post them up once I get a bit more progress...

[kevinm]

My posts are on the back - left side of the cabinet. Jim - you just had to design a box that doesn't allow for symmetry

[jwanck11]

Thanks Kevin! That is what I would have thought. I am going to put it on the same side actually, assume the crossovers go in the bottom of the woofer space on the same side and drill a hole into the MTM box with a Forsner bit.

Did you cut the BP hole before the main cabinet assembly or did you assemble all but the front baffle and then cut it out?

Thank you!!

[kevinm]

I used individual posts, so I just used a drill and drill guide once it was all put together. I did all of the wiring after the box was finished - probably going to start doing the wiring/x over install before I put on the baffle, though. It's amazing at how long it takes to do 3 speakers.

Not fun to have that step left when you're in final assembly mode

[jwanck11]

Well, the cabinet is all roughed in (and yep, it sure is rough in spots - I have to get my cabinet making mojo back quick!) I am on the baffle and am about to cut the holes. Drivers and x-over parts are all here from meniscus (what a great company!!!) all but the Finalists, which arrive tomorrow.

I will be cutting the holes and making x-overs tomorrow. I do have to get a sheet of peg board.

Here are a couple of pictures: Who knows if I did things in the right order or not. lol.

I am having a blast!!

Cabinet pieces cut:

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Dry fit:

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First assembly - the MTM enclosure:

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Baffle:

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I will post more, but have to upload them first....

[silvia0073]

Awesome, I'm on my build too, looking great so far! Going to have to step it up to keep up with you. My parts are on the way too. Can't wait till they arrive!

[jwanck11]

Thanks - BUT, and I hate to have to admit it to myself ... I have to rebuild the center channel cabinet. It was a great learning experience, and with the left over mdf I have from cutting the statements, I can rebuild the center. Ugh, the cabinet could not be salvaged and it has to be done. I'll apply learning from the dubbed "test build" to hopefully perfect the next and final build.

I did get the statements pieces cut as well as some of the Finalists pieces too - so all in all, I am making progress.

Couple of things I learned ... sand glue before attaching components to other pieces. Small imperfections are best death with early lest they compound into larger issues. C'est la vie!

[TEK]

Stuff like that happens to everyone.
You probably know the saying "measure twize, cut once"?
However, for newbees like us (ar least for me) there I also have a different saying: "just do the damn cut and stop using all your time trying to figure out if it is the right cut - you can always cut another one if you misses".
Sometimes I find myself pondering about something way too long - and then it's better to just do it and get some experience. I'm sure you have a much better basic now to get that center channel as you want it to be!

[kevinm]

I'm more of a "measure 5 times, cut twice" kind of guy

[kevinm]

Looking good, by the way!

[jwanck11]

Thanks guys! Center cabinet has been rebuilt and looks a heck of a lot better - and fits better, too... imagine that! lol.

Tonight I am going to build the crossovers (will post pictures and ask for verification / or corrections) and tomorrow will test cut and hopefully finish cut the baffle holes. Cutting the baffle holes is a really scary step to me for some reason - though I do have a good router and a jasper jig.

As for the Main Statements, I have the tunnels built and they are ready for the router to make space for the tweeter. I am having a blast!

[silvia0073]

If you have a decent router and jasper... holes are nothing... I was doing some test runs and man it was nice and easy. Only thing you can run into is using a cheap bit and going to fast. Snapped mine but I was just playing around.

[jwanck11]

I have a good router and jasper and good bits, too. I am using a 1" straight in a 1/2" collet.

Regarding holes, how do you finish the holes? When you get to the very end, I got a significant point where the bit could not finish the complete circle - there was no more material to hold the jasper in place. How have you guys dealt with this? I have the counter sinks done and they are perfect - the through-holes however in my test piece do not give me any confidence in cutting the finished baffle. Help!!!

Also, in my test piece, 7 1/4" was not big enough for the woofer to fit - although that is what the plans call for. Same for the midrange. As the wire connectors are right underneath a screw, there will be no way to router out a recess to accommodate the connectors and still have enough material for the mounting screw.

So many of these speakers have been built - and I see the pictures. What am I missing?

Thanks!

[kevinm]

I recommend using a sacrificial piece underneath that the center pin goes into as well. This way, the center pin is anchored in a board that isn't being cut.

[jwanck11]

Thanks Kevin - I would, but the pin that came with my jasper jig is not long enough to go through the glued baffle, catch a junk piece and still grab the jig. I'll try to free hand removing the point.

How about the sizes of the through holes? Why are my drivers not fitting into the holes? I have measured each and they match the dimensions stated on the instructions??

[kevinm]

Ahhh, yes. That can be a problem. I've anted to look for a longer one myself.


Any chance your jasper jig is not centered perfect? What bit type/size?

[Jim Holtz]

Guys,

I'm the last one that should be answering this since my cabinet building skills are not that great but here's what I've done for years. When you adjust your router for plunge depth to cut the driver hole, back it up about 1/16", route and then take a hammer and tap the uncut side and it'll pop out. Clean up the edge with a box cutter or rasp. It's super easy and the holes are perfect.

Also, as some of you have found the plans list the exact driver size and here's why. Depending on how you'll finish the cabinet determines how much over size the driver recess cut out should be. It can be tighter if you veneer and needs a bit bigger diameter for paint. I usually over cut the recess diameter by 1/32" - 1/16" depending on if I'm veneering or painting. I guess this is the "Y" part of DIY. :W

Jim

[JoeAngelicchio]

That's a great idea.

[jwanck11]

Thanks! I ended up using the drill bit for the jasper and that worked! Also, I used my jig saw to cut out a bit and the drivers dropped in nicely! Onto the cross overs. Can someone please validate the components on my boards? I have a few "extra" parts and am not sure if I need to use them or not???

Mid

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Tweeter

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Woofers

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[jwanck11]

Well, I have been pretty busy! Center just needs the baffle glued on (the low volume test was successful - phew!) and the mains are well on their way. Going to slow down as I am headed out of town later this week for a couple of days. Hope to finish the statements and the Finalists next week!

I will be doing all of the finishing when the weather warms up. So, I am excited to have the 5.1 system to listen to the rest of the winter - which is when I do most of my movie watching and listening.

A shot of the tools of the trade...

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Here are some center channel picts:

Baffle all ready:

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They will be set up to bi-wire or bi-amp

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My crossover work:

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I will post pictures tomorrow when I get ready to glue the baffle.

[jwanck11]

And the mains:

My buddy helping me glue ... notice the drip running down the back of his hand. lol

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One tower with the base parts glued in:

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Bases:

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2 basic layouts done!

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And this is where I currently am on the statements... having a real blast now that I am back into the swing of things.

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[jwanck11]

One question before I seal up the center this morning.... Is the center cubicle that houses the MTM supposed to be fully filled with foam? i currently have each compartment nicely packed and want to make sure that is right before gluing everything up.

Thanks!!

[Srixon]

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Excuse the no0b question, but could someone please show me in this photo where a baffle is supposed to get the 3/4" roundover to prevent "tunneling"?

[Jim Holtz]

One question before I seal up the center this morning.... Is the center cubicle that houses the MTM supposed to be fully filled with foam? i currently have each compartment nicely packed and want to make sure that is right before gluing everything up.

Thanks!!

The woofer compartments in the cabinet are the only areas that "lined" not stuffed with 2" wedge foam. The Mid tunnels are then lined with 1" flat foam with the driver end beveled. All foam should be held back from the inner front baffle around 2" to give the drivers room to breathe.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Excuse the no0b question, but could someone please show me in this photo where a baffle is supposed to get the 3/4" roundover to prevent "tunneling"?

I know there are pictures on some of the many builds but I don't have any. Basically, just use your router with a 3/4" round over bit on the inside of the front inner baffle mid cutouts where they mate to the mid tunnels. This allows a smooth transition into the tunnel.

HTH

Jim

[jwanck11]

The woofer compartments in the cabinet are the only areas that "lined" not stuffed with 2" wedge foam. The Mid tunnels are then lined with 1" flat foam with the driver end beveled. All foam should be held back from the inner front baffle around 2" to give the drivers room to breathe.

Jim

Thanks Jim - This is for the center channel speaker cabinet...

[jwanck11]

Excuse the no0b question, but could someone please show me in this photo where a baffle is supposed to get the 3/4" roundover to prevent "tunneling"?

The baffle is not in this pict... As Jim said, on the inside of the bagffle (facing into the speaker cabinet) you use a 3/4 in round over (or 45 degree camfer bit in my case) between the screw holes. You have to be careful not to just router the entire inner cutout ring or the screw will not have enough material to bite into. Let me see if I have apict and if I don't, I will take one...

[jwanck11]

Center channel is playing music... sort of.

When I played the first song, the speaker was so quiet, I essentially could not hear it with my Klipsch mains.

I played test tones from my media PC sound app and the center was really quiet compared to the other speakers in the system. I set the distance further. The speaker is set to large, as are the mains.

I first listened to an a cappella band and the voices sound as if they are in a long tunnel.

I turned it up pretty loud and it was a little better. Now I have turned the system back down and it seems to be blending better.

Is all of this normal?? I was worried I screwed up the crossovers and or wiring somewhere.

Voices are definitely weak and sound as if they are in the background.

[BobEllis]

Double check that you have the center speaker turned on. I usually run "phantom" center and drove myself nuts trying to figure out where the middle of the sound stage went when I tried out a center concept without turning it on. :roll:

Also, there is likely a significant sensitivity mismatch. Changing distance doesn't affect that, although it may give you the tunnel echo you describe. You'll probably have to turn down the mains a bit to match. How does it sound when you connect the center to either left or right speaker outputs? Try with the other channel disconnected so all you have playing is the center.

[jwanck11]

Bob, Thanks! Connecting it to the Right main, the Center is just as quiet. Good point about the sensitivity - I will try to match the center to the mains and see how that does.

I am just hopeful there is not something wrong with the crossovers or components... I don't think there is as I went over everything again and the connections match the network diagram and the joints all look OK. Also, all of the drivers in the center are at the same level. I will pull a speaker and check again.

I have a set of Martin logal motions which also use a ribbon and the voicing of those is totally different. Voices are clear and present regardless of the volume - that is what I was expecting..... or at least something close.

[Jim Holtz]

Any updates?

Jim

[jwanck11]

First off, Thank you(!!) Jim and Bob for your help.

The sensitivity difference was the base of the issues. Once I got the levels roughly balanced, the center started to show it's stuff. It needs time to break in, but man does it produce a lot of dynamic sound to process - and those woofers - they are very musical as well as being ridiculously powerful..

Given the statement II mains are about a week from firing up, I am going to wait for any finer adjustments. I also need to retrain my ears to take in this type of listening experience.

[Jim Holtz]

First off, Thank you(!!) Jim and Bob for your help.

The sensitivity difference was the base of the issues. Once I got the levels roughly balanced, the center started to show it's stuff. It needs time to break in, but man does it produce a lot of dynamic sound to process - and those woofers - they are very musical as well as being ridiculously powerful..

Given the statement II mains are about a week from firing up, I am going to wait for any finer adjustments. I also need to retrain my ears to take in this type of listening experience.

Excellent! Its good to hear it was a simple adjustment. :T

Jim

[silvia0073]

Looking good!!!