Minerva Monitor: "Patience my ass, I'm going to go build something!"

[JonMarsh]

Time for some old school work...

This is so low tech, I'm almost embarrassed to post it, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do...

Yes, we can build stuff with ordinary tools and a bit of foolish technique. Today was making progress on the front panels, finishing the hole cut outs and follow routing them smooth...



Back relief for the driver holes, in two steps- first 3/4" rounder, then 1-1/4"



And getting the top and bottom edges rounded over, same way.



How I should have done this was with my router table, but I would have needed a new plate to clear that honking big bit, so I did it the old fashion way hand held. NOT recommended, only for the fool hardy and careful, with sharp bits, low rotation speed, and slow careful feed.

[wkhanna]

Jon making dust!

that is what is called my part of the country, "a good day".

[JonMarsh]

Jon making dust!

that is what is called my part of the country, "a good day".

I'll second that notion. Didn't get as far as I wanted, but needed to spend some of the day on technical topics supporting GF's departure to New Zealand next weekend. Stuff like ripping video's, iOS setup and file transfer and backup (things that they don't teach you in IBM System Engineer school, though actually, she used to teach in their learning center for engineers- you know, stuff like setting up an AS400, or configuring their big enterprise printers, dinosaur tech like that...)

One more router operation on the front panels, a couple more piece trim cuts on the table saw, and I should be ready to start gluing these up.

[TEK]

There is a different between "can't" and "won't", just saying... ;-)

[ergo]

I got the bamboo sheets today - so material ready now. Did not need a forklift, but weather this economy plan will work out is yet to be seen of course.
Really itching to get some sawdust flying. May be I can start this weekend already, but not sure yet.

[JonMarsh]

That's a nice looking stack of bamboo. Steve said the batch we got in at his vendor was about 1300 lb. - that's forklift territory in my book- especially after having dealt with a stack of 4' x 6' for the Isiris build a few years back. Do you have some similar size lower cost materials to do test cuts with, or is your system already well sorted out?

Steve tells me our vendor may get to this job later this week... I'm on pins and needles to see how it turns out. Your cutting plan is very efficient for wood use... ours is efficient for vendor use- he'd probably flip out to have so much intricate work. I hear from Steve that his normal jobs are cutting pieces for cabinet builders, and I think that goes pretty fast on a per sheet basis.

[ergo]

I plan to first make a pass with cutting 2 layers worth of corners and either some or all of inner panel pieces and then check the fit etc. I have two 400x800 pieces I'll use as test material (same LBL).
Then if all seems good and the slot for separator and dadoo holes get right cutting parameters I'll cut the rest. Will try to leave front panel and side panel pieces to later as it is easier then to cut them smaller and larger according to the true box measures after glue-up.

[JonMarsh]

Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan- will be very interested to see how it works out! :T

[Steve Manning]

At Long Last ...... Parts

Finally got the issues worked out with cnc preparations and all the parts have been machined. The guy took some pictures in process, he started at 2 am ...... I was not there. 8O ..... I know where's you dedication ...... what can I say.

[Steve Manning]

Picked up about 2/3 of the parts and got them in the garage this afternoon ...... going back for the remainder tomorrow.










All I can say is ..... these things are going to weigh a ton when there finished. 8O

[Alaric]

HOLY $H1T! That's a lot of speaker wood!

[sdl2112]

Very nice...you must have felt like an expectant father

[ergo]

Very cool 4 speakers worth is a lot of material indeed.
These speakers are no tiny ones either. I printed out some parts in 1:1 scale from time to time to get a feel of whats the size in real life.
CAD drawings on screen can be zoomed in and out so easily that it's sometimes hard to envision the actual size.

[Steve Manning]

Yeah Scott, I think you summed it up ..... I was very pleased, we only lost one piece during cutting and I had got an extra sheet just in case, so we were covered. With all those pieces I figured that was pretty good. As an FYI, we also found some voids in the material like you had experienced, no cracks seen, but I have to look over things a little closer. Got a bag of lbl dust that can be mixed with epoxy if needed to resolve that.

Your right Ergo, these are not what you would call bookshelf size speakers, the drawings are very misleading. Being 24" X 18" X 15", they are on the stocky side of things.

[JonMarsh]

Your right Ergo, these are not what you would call bookshelf size speakers, the drawings are very misleading. Being 24" X 18" X 15", they are on the stocky side of things.

It's all in the proportions of the design....

[JonMarsh]

Steve is headed out to pick up the rest of the parts, you have no idea how excited I am to see this all stacked up like this...

Well, actually, it's kind of a tie this week, as to whether I'm more excited about this, or having a new Audio Precision analyzer delivered last Tuesday. yes, I've got goodies for it to do speaker response and impedance measurements as well. And that is truly cool...

But those parts you see stacked up in Steve's garage is something we've been working on/kicking around since early November, and "fast tracked" it around Thanksgiving. But as you can see, the devil is in the details, and slow work takes time. Compared to some of the other projects I've started, like the Three Way 12" Design Study, this is screaming along at light speed.

With GF leaving for New Zealand on Sunday, I may have a bit more spare time to work on the Table Saw version in the next weeks, too. That will allow continuing the crossover work with cabinets quite close to the final version.

[Steve Manning]

Round 2

Picked up the remaining parts today ......



The super .....



Stand Parts

[Steve Manning]

More stand parts .....





Just for you Darrell ....... got all the drop outs. That's a major pile of wood in of itself. 8O



Got some templates made for routing the driver cutouts.

[sdl2112]

Steve...good call on the templates...I would be mighty nervous with a circle jig :E

[Steve Manning]

With the front being 2 1/2" thick and the rear 2", I felt the Jasper jig was not the way to go. So guide bushing and template seemed to make sense.

[dar47]

Ah, Steve

Lots of parts, lots of wonderful parts. (rubbing hands together like little kid). You got enough spare to glue up and make new full sheets.:W

Next part should be fun and less stressful enjoy.:T

[Steve Manning]

Ah, Steve

Lots of parts, lots of wonderful parts. (rubbing hands together like little kid). You got enough spare to glue up and make new full sheets.:W

Next part should be fun and less stressful enjoy.:T

Your right the about the spare material, plus there is almost a full sheets worth of untouched lbl as well. I'm going to have to hide it so I can focus on the main project.

I am looking forward to what's next though, a little more under my direct control at least and as you say, less stress.

[JonMarsh]

This is the part of a project where I sometimes have a love/fear relationship- I love the progress that's been made, I fear that I might slip up and incur unexpected yield loss! I have a lot of confidence in your steady hands and past successes, though! :T :B

How can I not like a guy that uses the same "Official DIY Utility Vehicle"? Obviously a person of sound judgement! :B

[knowledgebass]

...

Just for you Darrell ....... got all the drop outs. That's a major pile of wood in of itself. 8O

...

That's a lot of cutting boards.

Perhaps enough wood for some smaller (read more affordable) versions based on the Seas L12RE/XFC

[JonMarsh]

Possibly that, or even some two ways based on the C16N001, which has enough Xmax to use as a small woofer (sensitivity is low, but what do you expect?)

[Brian Bunge]

I'm living vicariously through you guys! Being a full-time student again and living in an apartment means I have no money and no room to build anymore. Maybe I can get back into it in a few years! Keep up the good work!

[JonMarsh]

Thanks Brian- best of luck with your new studies! :T

[Steve Manning]

Some of you have noticed the aluminum that will be used as an accent trim on the cabinets and the stand. Since solid material, though easier to work with, was too cost prohibitive, in terms of material and machining to use. The alternative was to go with more or less and inlay. I worked on getting that bent into shape today, at least the process. The bending jig was made from some of the test pieces from the cnc tests.




1/4" X 1/4" X 8' aluminum stock setup for bending ......



I made some cauls to keep aluminum in place around corners ....



Part way through the bending process .....

[JonMarsh]

Ahh, the master at work!

I’m doing some pathetically low tech stuff today out in Storage Shed AKA Wood shop, sanding the seams on the 12” LBL boards that I epoxied on edge to make 24” wide pieces for the second layer of the sides, and routing the panel rebate for the front to back baffle separating the woofer and mid chambers.

[Steve Manning]

Getting close to the end of the bend process ....





Trimmed to length ....... trim will be welded to finish things.



Since there is some spring back in the aluminum I might be using some brad nails to hold things in place in the rabbeted grooves. Drilling a 1/16" dia. hole in the aluminum and tacking a brad in place worked pretty well for that.

[sdl2112]

That is too cool Steve...great innovation :T That ring is going to pop! (...look great )

[sdl2112]

Ahh, the master at work!

I’m doing some pathetically low tech stuff today out in Storage Shed AKA Wood shop, sanding the seams on the 12” LBL boards that I epoxied on edge to make 24” wide pieces for the second layer of the sides, and routing the panel rebate for the front to back baffle separating the woofer and mid chambers.

[ATTACH]n44147[/ATTACH]

Hey Jon...there's nothing wrong with the low tech approach...it's all good...keep it coming :T

Anyway, it's better then what I've been doing...reworking stuff, though nothing major. I hope to have updates tomorrow.

[Steve Manning]

That is too cool Steve...great innovation :T That ring is going to pop! (...look great )

Thanks Scott ....... I'm hoping that it turns out like I have it envisioned in my head, I think it will be a nice contrast with the bamboo.

[Steve Manning]

Ahh, the master at work!

I’m doing some pathetically low tech stuff today out in Storage Shed AKA Wood shop, sanding the seams on the 12” LBL boards that I epoxied on edge to make 24” wide pieces for the second layer of the sides, and routing the panel rebate for the front to back baffle separating the woofer and mid chambers.

[ATTACH]n44147[/ATTACH]

But this is the low tech approach as well, otherwise I would be doing like these crazy Danes, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5gufdPM8iY ( ~20 seconds in is how I'd like to do this)

[dar47]

Very, inventive Steve, me likes wood shop turned metal bending shop! Lots of people can learn a lot with your examples of jigs. It cost time but with a little imagination the skies the limit and you save a ton. Ah speaker building I miss the days, stuck renoing a bathroom. I think I could be a contractor now 3 walls out and new board preped for tile in 1 day. This does get old or I'm old, I think this is my fourth bathroom tile job.

You have a tig, or mig to tack the ends of the aluminum? Ben had a nice Miller Tig, sure miss that thing.

[ergo]

I did some progress today too. Some useful learnings... like that the LBL I get here which is sold under German brand does not seem to be quite same high quality as what you guys got in US. There are more small cracks and holes in inner layers, so I probably have to sort all and use the best looking ones for front side and ones with small cracks on back side etc. Most likely I can patch those with epo and dust, but still.
For bigger backside corner it's evident that the better results comes if the piece is cut so that longer cut matches the inner layer grain direction.
Also I got a better cut quality if I cut the firts pass only 1mm deep versus 3mm that I tried at first. The intermediate cuts work well also with 3mm in each pass.

Flickr/

[ergo]

Steve - great job on the alu bends. Now I see that you've really thought everything through and the bulge on bottom of the box was actually for making a better bending jig

[Steve Manning]

Looking good Ergo ..... I'm also seeing similar voids in the stuff we get as well. My understanding is that most of this stuff comes out of China, so we might all be in the same boat if that's the case. It's certainly not something I was expecting to see though.

The bulge at the bottom is there for volume adjustment of the woofer section. With it not there there was too much volume so I played around a bit until it was correct. Also helps with keeping the sides non - parallel, which is supposed to be a good thing. Just happened to work out in my favor for added strength of the bending fixture.

[Steve Manning]

Very, inventive Steve, me likes wood shop turned metal bending shop! Lots of people can learn a lot with your examples of jigs. It cost time but with a little imagination the skies the limit and you save a ton. Ah speaker building I miss the days, stuck renoing a bathroom. I think I could be a contractor now 3 walls out and new board preped for tile in 1 day. This does get old or I'm old, I think this is my fourth bathroom tile job.

You have a tig, or mig to tack the ends of the aluminum? Ben had a nice Miller Tig, sure miss that thing.

Thanks Darrell ..... what's the saying - necessity is mother of invention.

Now I know who to call when I need some tile work done .....

Nope, I'm not a welder, unless your talking about using an Electron Beam Welder, then I'm your guy ...... I have a guy that I used to work with that is a master welder that is going to do these for us.


One of my projects from my old job .....

[JonMarsh]

Very, inventive Steve, me likes wood shop turned metal bending shop! Lots of people can learn a lot with your examples of jigs. It cost time but with a little imagination the skies the limit and you save a ton. Ah speaker building I miss the days, stuck renoing a bathroom. I think I could be a contractor now 3 walls out and new board preped for tile in 1 day. This does get old or I'm old, I think this is my fourth bathroom tile job.

You have a tig, or mig to tack the ends of the aluminum? Ben had a nice Miller Tig, sure miss that thing.

I can relate to that, Darrell, even if I've only done one bathroom rebuild, due to a friend's leaking toilet and cheap construction. Put in backer board as the base, unlike the MDF originally used, and did a fairly nice job on the tile floor. I've still got this tile cutting saw in storage...

Yesterday I had dinner with my daughter and son-in-law, they're moving to So Cal the end of next week, and they were curious as usual about what else new is going on in my life; I showed them a variety of things on my phone, including stuff from this thread, and their comment was that it looked more like work than fun! I explained that if they give it 10 or 20 years, it might look different to them, but it definitely is fun, as is reading this morning's posts. :T

Hope to do some biscuit joinery for the fronts, Top and Bottom, and sides today; I've got the new epoxy supplies, and may even start assembling. I sanded the front panels and side panels yesterday- I think these are going to look OK, though not as intriguing as the Translam version. That's OK, since these are essentially 2nd stage acoustic prototype.

If all works out in a couple of weeks I'll be remeasuring all the drivers and double checking the crossover using the AP. (Have test cables and adapters on order as of yesterday).

[Steve Manning]

Glad you have some nice weather to get some work done out in the new shed Jon ...... Though Darrell may laugh .... we're in the 20's with a wind chill down in the single digits, normal for this time of year is upper 40's to low 50's. The garage is closed up and the heater is on just to work out there at ~50 degrees. :E

[Steve Manning]

Small update ..... got all the trim pieces for the cabinets bent to shape and ready for welding.





Trim work for stands will come a little later since they do not need any welding.

[JonMarsh]

Looks sweet, Steve! :T

Late this afternoon after getting back from the valley I started the glue up of one cabinet after double checking several biscuit joints and dry fitting everything one more time. I'm back to using my tried and true adhesive, though, no innovation from me on this one. Just a three panel section, a front, a side, and a bottom piece. Pictures later.

We just walked the dog, and shortly leaving for BART to drop off GF to get to SFO and the 15 hour flight to Sidney that awaits her...

And temperatures here broke records- not surprising when it was 60 degrees at 5 AM when I left home.

[Steve Manning]

The gluing begins ......

Had some good weather the last couple of days, so I was able to open up the garage and got some rough sanding (80 grit) done and started on the gluing process.

First two pictures are of the top of the stand .....





Next two are of the stand bottom/crossover compartment. As Tom noted earlier, this stuff makes a big mess. 8O





The good part of this glue however, is the clean up. The part on the right was after ~90 seconds with a putty knife. Trade offs ......

[wkhanna]

we have not seen progress like this since....

...well...since Jon had a life outside of work.....:W