Hoping to start a 'Finalists' build

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  • KarlD
    Member
    • Jun 2014
    • 40

    Hoping to start a 'Finalists' build

    Hi

    I have been directed onto this forum through a thread I started over on DIY Audio.

    I have a great deal of experience building items similar to speaker enclosures and as a bonus I have access to a 5' x 10' CNC router plus all the MDF I can eat. So the building should be a doddle.

    My aim is to build a pair of speakers for 2 channel playback that suit my reasonably broad taste in music. The Finalists seem to be the most sensible and realistic option.

    I would like to make them as a floor stander with the low driver in the transmission line variant enclosure, but there are also a couple of other things I would like to look into the possibility of doing.

    Unfortunately there is no way I am going to be able to afford the drivers for a long time but I should be able to build the enclosures without them as long as I can get some good dimensions for the drivers to make the cutouts.

    First question - as the lower driver will be in a sealed enclosure of its own and the mid driver sits in its own tube, does the sealed volume of air behind the tweeter matter?
  • Paul K.
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2008
    • 180

    #2
    Take a look at this thread: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...%29-Statements

    That thread eventually addresses exactly what you're talking about and I can model a variation on the ML-TL design I posted to get the tweeter's center where you want it above the floor, if you want me to.

    The sealed volume behind the tweeter does not matter; it simply goes unused.
    Paul
    Last edited by theSven; 01 May 2023, 20:23 Monday. Reason: Update htguide url

    Comment

    • KarlD
      Member
      • Jun 2014
      • 40

      #3
      Originally posted by Paul K.
      Take a look at this thread: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...%29-Statements

      That thread eventually addresses exactly what you're talking about and I can model a variation on the ML-TL design I posted to get the tweeter's center where you want it above the floor, if you want me to.

      The sealed volume behind the tweeter does not matter; it simply goes unused.
      Paul
      Yeah that's one I have been having a look at. I really like the idea of doing it as a TL.

      I would also like to make the woofer cab entirely separate from the top cab and separate them slightly with 15-20mm spikes or such. The problem with that is that I would introduce a edge/gap on the front baffle and I don't know what that would do to the frequency response.

      Plus if I were making the cabs separate it would be nice to bring the vertical baffle edges in about 25mm each side for aesthetics but again I don't know what that would do to the sound and I imagine the crossover would need to be looked at.
      Last edited by theSven; 01 May 2023, 20:23 Monday. Reason: Update htguide url

      Comment

      • Paul K.
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2008
        • 180

        #4
        Making this into separate cabinets with or without spikes will also add more distance between the midrange and woofer, which will have some effect on the crossover design, although it might be possible to move the woofer up enough in its compartment to counter that. The goal of what I did was to maintain the same cabinet width and driver locations so the crossover would not be affected, as well as keeping the cabinet depth the same so the midrange tunnel and its effects would not be changed. By "bringing the vertical edges in" I assume you mean to decrease the width of just the upper cabinet? That would also affect the crossover design as you said.
        Paul

        Originally posted by KarlD
        Yeah that's one I have been having a look at. I really like the idea of doing it as a TL.

        I would also like to make the woofer cab entirely separate from the top cab and separate them slightly with 15-20mm spikes or such. The problem with that is that I would introduce a edge/gap on the front baffle and I don't know what that would do to the frequency response.

        Plus if I were making the cabs separate it would be nice to bring the vertical baffle edges in about 25mm each side for aesthetics but again I don't know what that would do to the sound and I imagine the crossover would need to be looked at.

        Comment

        • 5th element
          Supreme Being Moderator
          • Sep 2009
          • 1671

          #5
          Welcome to the HTGuide forums Karl
          What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
          5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
          Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

          Comment

          • KarlD
            Member
            • Jun 2014
            • 40

            #6
            [emoji2]

            Comment

            • KarlD
              Member
              • Jun 2014
              • 40

              #7
              Originally posted by Paul K.
              Making this into separate cabinets with or without spikes will also add more distance between the midrange and woofer, which will have some effect on the crossover design, although it might be possible to move the woofer up enough in its compartment to counter that. The goal of what I did was to maintain the same cabinet width and driver locations so the crossover would not be affected, as well as keeping the cabinet depth the same so the midrange tunnel and its effects would not be changed. By "bringing the vertical edges in" I assume you mean to decrease the width of just the upper cabinet? That would also affect the crossover design as you said.
              Paul
              Would altering the crossover to accommodate these changes be a huge undertaking?
              Please forgive my ignorance but I am very new to this. Despite keep reading and reading I feel like I'm not getting any closer to properly understanding...

              Comment

              • Jim Holtz
                Ultra Senior Member
                • Mar 2005
                • 3223

                #8
                If you're planning on changing the width or depth of the cabinet more a than 10% it will impact the sound quality and a crossover redesign would be required. To change the crossover correctly would require measurements, listening and tweaking component values until it would again, sound just right.

                The majority of designs available on this board are not created from Sims but the process I described. It's no small task.

                Paul's TL cabinet design is excellent as is the advice he's offered. If you want to build the Finalists as floor standers, I'd suggest you follow his cabinet design exactly.

                Jim

                Comment

                • 5th element
                  Supreme Being Moderator
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 1671

                  #9
                  A rather significant undertaking as it changes quite a few things about the design. The first is that it will alter the baffle step frequency of the top box and then second, and with baffle step, alter the diffraction behaviour of the tweeter and mid range too. The crossover will be designed to accommodate both of these and it isn't a trivial task to simply put right. I mean the actual measured differences might only be rather small in practise, but considering that the designer has probably put a lot of hours into fine tuning the balance of the speakers, it has the potential to 'ruin' all that hard work they put in to make them sound 'just right'.

                  Increasing the distance between the mid and the bass driver is less of a concern imo as the xover frequency here is about 320Hz. You could increase the distance between the two to around 50cm without it affecting things too much.

                  You could quite easily build them into two separate boxes (and separate the mid and bass drivers a little) without too many compromises, but what you could do to lower the visual impact of the width, is introduce some largish facets at the bottom of the mid box and then top of the bass box too. Positioned like that they wont affect the performance too much, but will significantly narrow the apparent front width at the join between the two cabinets and make them more attractive. You could then place a much smaller pair of facets at the top of the cabinet to complete the look and minimise the affect of the facets on the frequency response of the tweeter.

                  Someone did do a curved statements build here that may be of interest.

                  Last edited by theSven; 01 May 2023, 20:24 Monday. Reason: Update htguide url
                  What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                  5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                  Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                  Comment

                  • Paul K.
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 180

                    #10
                    I know enough about crossover design to get me into trouble, so I have others who are far more capable and experienced design my crossovers. Jim and Matt gave you good advice, and I'm available to design a custom TL for you and the Finalists if you desire.
                    Paul

                    Originally posted by KarlD
                    Would altering the crossover to accommodate these changes be a huge undertaking?
                    Please forgive my ignorance but I am very new to this. Despite keep reading and reading I feel like I'm not getting any closer to properly understanding...

                    Comment

                    • KarlD
                      Member
                      • Jun 2014
                      • 40

                      #11
                      Thank you all.
                      I will do some sketches/3D of possible baffle facets and post for feedback.

                      Can the woofer be moved down the baffle at all with the TL design?

                      Comment

                      • Paul K.
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 180

                        #12
                        As far as only the TL is concerned, the woofer can definitely be moved down on the baffle, but at some point the crossover will be affected enough to matter.
                        Paul

                        Originally posted by KarlD
                        Thank you all.
                        I will do some sketches/3D of possible baffle facets and post for feedback.

                        Can the woofer be moved down the baffle at all with the TL design?

                        Comment

                        • Jim Holtz
                          Ultra Senior Member
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 3223

                          #13
                          Originally posted by KarlD
                          Thank you all.
                          I will do some sketches/3D of possible baffle facets and post for feedback.

                          Can the woofer be moved down the baffle at all with the TL design?
                          Is there a reason you want to move the woofer lower on the cabinet? Rule of thumb is to have the drivers grouped as closely as possible to assist driver integration. Unless you have a very good reason for moving it, I'd suggest you leave it where Paul indicated on his drawing.

                          When you take any finished design and start changing things, it's no longer finished and may not sound as it was designed.

                          Jim

                          Comment

                          • 5th element
                            Supreme Being Moderator
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 1671

                            #14
                            Karl just wants to change the design a little to make it look less like a simple rectangular box. I have suggested round overs and small facets to help narrow the initial front profile. I think the idea of separating the mid and tweeter into their own separate box and then making that box narrower was to try and make them look a little slimmer, trouble is that isn't really a good idea.

                            I recommended that he could do something like this, but with only very small facets around the tweeter.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Or something like this.

                            Click image for larger versionName:	$_57.jpgViews:	1Size:	79.9 KBID:	859161

                            I think Karl is just trying to work out what is and what isn't acceptable because he doesn't know. I have suggested that he comes up with some ideas/CAD drawings of some ideas and then we could let him know if it would either work or wouldn't, which I think is what he is doing now.
                            Last edited by theSven; 01 May 2023, 20:25 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                            What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                            5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                            Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                            Comment

                            • Jim Holtz
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 3223

                              #15
                              Hi Matt,

                              BTW, welcome to HT Guide as the new moderator! I'll try to not work you too hard. :B

                              I wasn't trying to be a grump about his changes but to explain that when you take one of the finished designs off this board and start to make major changes in cabinets or driver positioning, it's no longer the speaker design they started with and may not sound as designed because of those changes. If you're new to DIY, these facts may not be apparent.

                              The Finalists sound quality have been my inspiration to look at other speaker design options. They're the biggest and most robust sounding monitor speaker I've heard. I think he'll like them.

                              Jim

                              Comment

                              • 5th element
                                Supreme Being Moderator
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 1671

                                #16
                                Thanks Jim

                                That's why I've been recommending them to anyone whose criteria seem to fit the bill. From a design and driver choice point of view they are extremely hard to fault, especially because they can also work with the mid tunnel plugged. I think what I like about them the most is that the drivers are very high performance, yet don't cost the earth, something that's quite rare in DIY 3 ways.
                                What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                Comment

                                • KarlD
                                  Member
                                  • Jun 2014
                                  • 40

                                  #17
                                  Hi all.

                                  Yes sorry, at this stage I would just like to know what I can get away with before I start ruining all the hard work that has gone into the design. I don't mind being told "no, don't do that you fool!" if I'm going to cause problems.

                                  I'm still undecided as whether to make it as a floor stander with TL bottom or as a large stand mount.

                                  Comment

                                  • Paul K.
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jul 2008
                                    • 180

                                    #18
                                    The advantage of building it as a large stand mount as it was originally designed is you can make the stand whatever height you need in order to place the tweeter's center at a height best suited to your needs. But if you want to build a TL-based floor-stander, don't forget we have some flexibility on the final height in via the height of the woofer cavity.
                                    Paul

                                    Originally posted by KarlD
                                    Hi all.

                                    Yes sorry, at this stage I would just like to know what I can get away with before I start ruining all the hard work that has gone into the design. I don't mind being told "no, don't do that you fool!" if I'm going to cause problems.

                                    I'm still undecided as whether to make it as a floor stander with TL bottom or as a large stand mount.

                                    Comment

                                    • KarlD
                                      Member
                                      • Jun 2014
                                      • 40

                                      #19
                                      Does anybody have any measurements for the drive cutouts?

                                      Doing this without the drivers in hand is less than ideal.

                                      I have PDFs for the drivers which give me the OD, bolt pitch and PCD and the flangr thickness but I can't really get a diameter for the full through openings.

                                      Comment

                                      • Jim Holtz
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Mar 2005
                                        • 3223

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by KarlD
                                        Does anybody have any measurements for the drive cutouts?

                                        Doing this without the drivers in hand is less than ideal.

                                        I have PDFs for the drivers which give me the OD, bolt pitch and PCD and the flangr thickness but I can't really get a diameter for the full through openings.
                                        Karl,

                                        I would recommend you wait to cut until you have the drivers in hand. here are the actual measurements;

                                        RS225 = 8 25/32" x 7 1/4" x 13/64"
                                        NE149 = 5 55/64" x 4 59/64" x 5/32"
                                        RS28F = 4 1/8" x 3.0 x 9/64"

                                        Again, these are actual measurements that I increase slightly for clearance. I would NOT recommend cutting until you have the drivers in hand and can measure for accuracy. For clarity, I increase the diameter and basket hole cut out by 1/16" for a little extra room to make the drivers fit better.

                                        Jim
                                        Last edited by Jim Holtz; 25 June 2014, 20:33 Wednesday. Reason: Corrected errors!

                                        Comment

                                        • KarlD
                                          Member
                                          • Jun 2014
                                          • 40

                                          #21
                                          Isn't the mid NE149?

                                          Comment

                                          • Jim Holtz
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Mar 2005
                                            • 3223

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by KarlD
                                            Isn't the mid NE149?
                                            (Sigh) This is what happens when I try to do something that requires thinking at 5:00 am before leaving for work. :-( sorry!

                                            Yes the mid is a ne149 and the actual cutout hole is 4 9/16". Please download the pdfs for each driver and check the size. That's what I'm doing.

                                            If you don't have the drivers in front of you before cutting you will likely have one or more that doesn't quite fit. It's a real pain to try and fix things after its done.

                                            Jim

                                            Comment

                                            • KarlD
                                              Member
                                              • Jun 2014
                                              • 40

                                              #23
                                              I have the PDFs already for the sizes. I was wondering about tabs and the through hole more than anything.

                                              Problem with buying the drivers first is that it will mean waiting until after xmas for when I can (hopefully) afford them.

                                              Comment

                                              • KarlD
                                                Member
                                                • Jun 2014
                                                • 40

                                                #24
                                                I'm an idiot.
                                                I never noticed the basket sizes on the PDFs.
                                                Duh.

                                                Comment

                                                • Jim Holtz
                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                  • 3223

                                                  #25
                                                  Lol! You're not an idiot. It's just your 1st build. My cabinet skills are marginal compared to many in DIY as are my drawing skills creating coherent plans for the cabinets. I apologize for not having better plans available.

                                                  Meniscus has a drawing of the Finalists that was created by one of the builders that is excellent except for the tweeter diameter dimensions. It should be 4 3/16" rather than 5/16" and I've not figured out how to correct it.

                                                  Just a side note. The dimensions I posted are actual rather than what I use. I usually add 1/16" for a little clearance on driver diameter and cutout. The RS28F does require notches for the terminals but I can't tell you exactly what they are. I usually use a rotozip to cut them after the holes are created.

                                                  I hope that helps!

                                                  Jim

                                                  Comment

                                                  • KarlD
                                                    Member
                                                    • Jun 2014
                                                    • 40

                                                    #26
                                                    I am redrawing the plans on AutoCAD at the moment although I am slightly altering the sizes to make them work in metric for easier CNCing (keeping within 0.5mm of original though). Also, 3/4" MDF measures at 17.9 to 18.1mm here so I'm allowing for that too. I will post drawings when done.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • KarlD
                                                      Member
                                                      • Jun 2014
                                                      • 40

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Paul K.
                                                      The advantage of building it as a large stand mount as it was originally designed is you can make the stand whatever height you need in order to place the tweeter's center at a height best suited to your needs. But if you want to build a TL-based floor-stander, don't forget we have some flexibility on the final height in via the height of the woofer cavity.
                                                      Paul
                                                      Paul, would you be able to make the TL design work to bring the tweeter height down to 37/38"? Would it require anything such as a tapered line?

                                                      Comment

                                                      • Paul K.
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jul 2008
                                                        • 180

                                                        #28
                                                        Yep, that's possible and not at all difficult. All that has to be done is to reduce the height of the woofer compartment by 3-4 inches, tweak the port's dimensions to re-establish the same system tuning frequency to make up for both the line length decrease and the line volume decrease, and reduce the total stuffing amount. No need to convert to a tapered TL.
                                                        Paul

                                                        Originally posted by KarlD
                                                        Paul, would you be able to make the TL design work to bring the tweeter height down to 37/38"? Would it require anything such as a tapered line?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • KarlD
                                                          Member
                                                          • Jun 2014
                                                          • 40

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Paul K.
                                                          Yep, that's possible and not at all difficult. All that has to be done is to reduce the height of the woofer compartment by 3-4 inches, tweak the port's dimensions to re-establish the same system tuning frequency to make up for both the line length decrease and the line volume decrease, and reduce the total stuffing amount. No need to convert to a tapered TL.
                                                          Paul
                                                          Awesomeness. Would you mind doing it for me?

                                                          When does a tapered line become nessisary? I was looking in the LDC and there are quite a few variations. I was surprised to see a round port on yours as I thought they all had a mouth proportioned to the line cross section.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Paul K.
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Jul 2008
                                                            • 180

                                                            #30
                                                            In a tapered TL, which has at its outlet just a rectangular hole in a wall, the system is tuned entirely by the 1/4-wavelength resonant frequency of the line's length (and the effective length of a tapered line is longer than its actual length). A mass-loaded TL has a constant area along its length and usually is not long enough for its 1/4 wave resonant frequency to solely tune the system, so a port, not just a hole, is needed on the other end. So, both the line's resonant frequency and the port's dimensions tune the system. The longer the line, the more it contributes with less from the port, and vice versa. There are advantages and disadvantages to both mass-loaded and tapered TLs and one or the other will be better depending on one's total goals and needs.
                                                            Paul

                                                            Originally posted by KarlD
                                                            Awesomeness. Would you mind doing it for me?

                                                            When does a tapered line become nessisary? I was looking in the LDC and there are quite a few variations. I was surprised to see a round port on yours as I thought they all had a mouth proportioned to the line cross section.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Paul K.
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Jul 2008
                                                              • 180

                                                              #31
                                                              Here you go, Karl

                                                              Originally posted by KarlD
                                                              Awesomeness. Would you mind doing it for me?
                                                              In my first post in this thread I gave you a link to that "other" thread where in Post 13 I showed a drawing for the folded ML-TL I modeled for the Finalist's woofer. Using that drawing as a reference, make the following changes:
                                                              1. Decrease the height of the woofer compartment to 28".
                                                              2. Decrease the length (height) of the vertical line divider to 21.625".
                                                              3. Reduce the total amount of stuffing in the front half of the folded line to about 12 ounces.
                                                              4. The center location for the port is still 10.25" above the internal bottom, but you have two port options to consider; a single port with 2.5" diameter and 3.75" length, or two ports, each with a 2" diameter and 5.125" length.

                                                              Regardless of which port option you choose, the system bass response graph as shown in that Post 13 is what to expect. The dual-port option will result in a lower peak port air velocity, but neither option should have audible port noise.

                                                              For polyester fiber to stuff the front half of the line, you can use loose material, like Polyfil from Walmart or Acousta Stuf. You weigh it out and fluff it up before installing it as uniformly by density (weight) as you can (a bit less than 1 ounce in every 2 inches of height) but it doesn't have to be perfect.
                                                              Paul

                                                              Edit: On the cabinet drawing I forgot to mention that the 21" dimension shown between the port's center and the bottom of the solid divider below the midrange tunnel becomes 17.75" as a result of reducing the height of the woofer compartment to 28".
                                                              Last edited by theSven; 02 August 2023, 20:02 Wednesday. Reason: Update quote

                                                              Comment

                                                              • KarlD
                                                                Member
                                                                • Jun 2014
                                                                • 40

                                                                #32
                                                                Thanks very much!
                                                                I'll draw that up tomorrow.

                                                                I will have a Google for stuffing sources in the UK.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • KarlD
                                                                  Member
                                                                  • Jun 2014
                                                                  • 40

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Could I make the 6" mid tunnel out of trans laminated mdf rings? Would that effect anything? And are wooden tubes ok for the reflex ports?

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Paul K.
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Jul 2008
                                                                    • 180

                                                                    #34
                                                                    I would assume that making the midrange tunnel out of laminated MDF rings will be fine as it's the internal area and shape that's important. Keep in mind, though, that if the wall thickness of the tunnel is significant, you want to make sure the solid brace below the midrange tunnel, which replaces the window brace in the non-TL Finalist, is located correctly. As to wooden tubes for the ports, could you be a bit more descriptive and specific?
                                                                    Paul

                                                                    Originally posted by KarlD
                                                                    Could I make the 6" mid tunnel out of trans laminated mdf rings? Would that effect anything? And are wooden tubes ok for the reflex ports?

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Jim Holtz
                                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                                      • 3223

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by KarlD
                                                                      Isn't the mid NE149?
                                                                      Fixed!

                                                                      Jim

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • Jim Holtz
                                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                                        • Mar 2005
                                                                        • 3223

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by KarlD
                                                                        Could I make the 6" mid tunnel out of trans laminated mdf rings? Would that effect anything? And are wooden tubes ok for the reflex ports?
                                                                        yep, Paul is exactly correct.

                                                                        Jim

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • KarlD
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • Jun 2014
                                                                          • 40

                                                                          #37
                                                                          As these would be TL versions the divide below the mid tunnel would be solid so I would use that to support the mdf tunnel.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • KarlD
                                                                            Member
                                                                            • Jun 2014
                                                                            • 40

                                                                            #38
                                                                            [QUOTE=Paul K.;590629]
                                                                            Originally posted by KarlD
                                                                            Awesomeness. Would you mind doing it for me?

                                                                            In my first post in this thread I gave you a link to that "other" thread where in Post 13 I showed a drawing for the folded ML-TL I modeled for the Finalist's woofer. Using that drawing as a reference, make the following changes:
                                                                            1. Decrease the height of the woofer compartment to 28".
                                                                            2. Decrease the length (height) of the vertical line divider to 21.625".
                                                                            3. Reduce the total amount of stuffing in the front half of the folded line to about 12 ounces.
                                                                            4. The center location for the port is still 10.25" above the internal bottom, but you have two port options to consider; a single port with 2.5" diameter and 3.75" length, or two ports, each with a 2" diameter and 5.125" length.

                                                                            Regardless of which port option you choose, the system bass response graph as shown in that Post 13 is what to expect. The dual-port option will result in a lower peak port air velocity, but neither option should have audible port noise.

                                                                            For polyester fiber to stuff the front half of the line, you can use loose material, like Polyfil from Walmart or Acousta Stuf. You weigh it out and fluff it up before installing it as uniformly by density (weight) as you can (a bit less than 1 ounce in every 2 inches of height) but it doesn't have to be perfect.
                                                                            Paul

                                                                            Edit: On the cabinet drawing I forgot to mention that the 21" dimension shown between the port's center and the bottom of the solid divider below the midrange tunnel becomes 17.75" as a result of reducing the height of the woofer compartment to 28".
                                                                            With two 2" ports, does it matter how wide apart they are?

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Paul K.
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Jul 2008
                                                                              • 180

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Honestly I don't know. I do know you want to have adequate clearance internally from cabinet walls, etc, but beyond that I have no experience or knowledge. Perhaps others that do know will chime in.
                                                                              Paul

                                                                              Originally posted by KarlD
                                                                              With two 2" ports, does it matter how wide apart they are?
                                                                              Last edited by theSven; 02 August 2023, 20:03 Wednesday. Reason: Update quote

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • KarlD
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • Jun 2014
                                                                                • 40

                                                                                #40
                                                                                I might as well source the 2.5" ports then and use those.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • KarlD
                                                                                  Member
                                                                                  • Jun 2014
                                                                                  • 40

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Image not available

                                                                                  Are those window braces ok? Not too restrictive?

                                                                                  Outer edges are 18mm, center bar is 18mm, brace thickness is 18mm. The two apertures measure 100x136.5mm each.

                                                                                  Forgive the terrible model - it's only rough for now.
                                                                                  Last edited by theSven; 02 August 2023, 20:00 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • Paul K.
                                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                                    • Jul 2008
                                                                                    • 180

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Those are just fine, not at all restrictive much less too restrictive. There's nothing "rough" about your model, either, and it's a whole lot better than the pencil and paper drawings I always make, none of which are 3D.
                                                                                    Paul

                                                                                    Originally posted by KarlD

                                                                                    Are those window braces ok? Not too restrictive?

                                                                                    Outer edges are 18mm, center bar is 18mm, brace thickness is 18mm. The two apertures measure 100x136.5mm each.

                                                                                    Forgive the terrible model - it's only rough for now.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Jim Holtz
                                                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                                                      • 3223

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      TL cabinet drawing?

                                                                                      With both of your approval, I would very much like to add this as a build option for The Finalists. Very nice work by both of you gentleman!

                                                                                      Jim

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • KarlD
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • Jun 2014
                                                                                        • 40

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Obviously I am in no place to object. I am happy to provide detailed CAD drawings too once I have sorted everything. Though they will be in metric.

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Paul K.
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Jul 2008
                                                                                          • 180

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          It's fine with me and I appreciate your compliments. Just be sure to use the revised woofer compartment dimensions, stuffing amount and port options I created for Karl so the tweeter's center would end up at 37-38" above the floor.
                                                                                          Paul

                                                                                          Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                                                                                          With both of your approval, I would very much like to add this as a build option for The Finalists. Very nice work by both of you gentleman!

                                                                                          Jim

                                                                                          Comment

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