The trials and triumphs of a Finalist build

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Finleyville
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 350

    The trials and triumphs of a Finalist build

    Anyway...

    I have completed a set of finalists. These are not your standard finalists. I had to make some changes to them since I did not use the exact drivers required. Any changes made will have the necessary adjustments notated. Unfortunately, I do not have the room for them anywhere in my house so I will leave the listening impressions for a later date. This is my build story.



    All wood cut and ready to go.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	177.3 KB ID:	932108

    Here is the biggest mistake I made, i.e. DO NOT DO THIS! I ended up gluing together the ends of the mid tube before making sure that all of the parts fit together perfectly. When I finally got around to the dry fitting and glue up I noticed that the mid tunnel was about 1/4 inch too long for the enclosure. This made the resulting build a headache because now I had a slight bow to my enclosure. I power sanded one end of the tube assembly to shave it down. But since it was done by hand and not on a belt sander the result was uneven. I ended up clamping the box as best as I could and sealing everywhere I could reach. I just wish it would have gone smoother without all the trouble and cussing....grr.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	233.3 KB ID:	932109




    Now the biggest change to the original design was the woofer. I already owned a set of the RS28s and a pair of RS225's. That is a major reason I chose this design in the first place. The difference between my tweets and the fs ones are very minimal. However, my woofers are the discontinued shielded type. That dictated a larger enclosure of 50 liters compared to the smaller 35 liter box. Keeping the baffle width and depth the same for response purposes meant adding an additional 11" of height. So I made the decision on creating floor standing finalists with the tweet at seated ear height. That left me with an empty space at the bottom of the enclosure which I decided to house the crossover and optional rear plug.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	321.0 KB ID:	932110

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	368.5 KB ID:	932111

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	329.4 KB ID:	932112

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	348.8 KB ID:	932113

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	235.1 KB ID:	932114

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	455.7 KB ID:	932115


    I was very happy that my inner baffle holes and the mid tube lined up perfectly.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	0 Size:	141.7 KB ID:	932116




    I made the decision of gluing the inner baffle separate from the outer baffle. This allowed me to get a good fit from my poor planning of the mid tunnel earlier. However, it also provided me with some stomach ulcers worrying if my routed outer baffle would line up with my inner baffle exactly. Whew, it did.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	390.5 KB ID:	932117

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	218.0 KB ID:	932118

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	316.5 KB ID:	932119




    For the rear mid tube hole I ended up using a flush trim bit on my router to make sure that it was perfect.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	263.0 KB ID:	932120

    Of course, if you primarily only listen to industrial music you could leave the rear mid opening like below. I understand that it will bring out the harmonic frequencies prevalent in that type of music. ha, ha

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	285.8 KB ID:	932121




    With that empty space at the bottom of the enclosure I decided to build hinged doors to access that space. I purchased the PE mounting plate for my speakers and decided to inset the plate into the door. That meant building a jig and using another flush trim router bit to carve out the space for the plate.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	260.9 KB ID:	932122

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	246.3 KB ID:	932123

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	335.6 KB ID:	932124

    Click image for larger version  Name:	image.png Views:	1 Size:	191.8 KB ID:	932125




    Here is how I decided to layout the crossover. The only change I made to the actual board from my mock drawing is I added the switch resister to the top of the board. I did not like that resistor being attached to the back plate.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	87
Size:	391.6 KB
ID:	932223

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image.png
Views:	87
Size:	374.1 KB
ID:	932224




    I wanted the rear of the speakers just gloss black. So I bought some black enamel paint. After a primer and 6 coats of paint I STILL wasn't getting the results I wanted. That is when I broke down and bought a HVLP Earlex spray station. Why I didn't buy this earlier I will never know. This thing kicks butt! Only two coats with the sprayer and it looked good.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2198_zps2c9ba01f.webp
Views:	84
Size:	15.4 KB
ID:	932225

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2197_zps7ab62212.webp
Views:	76
Size:	21.9 KB
ID:	932226

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2202_zps15d9a2c4.webp
Views:	81
Size:	24.7 KB
ID:	932227




    I wanted to make my finished speakers seem like they were taken from expensive automobile interior. So I thought it would be a good idea if each driver were surrounded in a brushed aluminum trim ring like some car speedometers and tachs. I bought some 1/8" thick and 1/2" wide aluminum bar stock and cold formed it into some jigs I made that were the exact outer diameter of each driver. Then I took the mostly circle rings to a friends shop where we welded, scraped, sanded, and polished each ring to exact size to fit around each driver.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2057_zpsb2f9937c.webp
Views:	78
Size:	18.4 KB
ID:	932228

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2103_zps7a21f60c.webp
Views:	81
Size:	14.4 KB
ID:	932229

    The problem with this idea is that the 1/2" trim rings are the exact same thickness as the original 1/2" outer baffle thickness. So instead I opted for a standard 3/4" thick outer baffle. The real tricky part was routing the different depths for the drivers and rings. The rings, when flush with the driver face, extend below each driver mounting plate. So I needed to route not only the perfect driver cutout and depth but also an additional outer ring deeper than the driver faceplate. After practicing on a bunch of scrap with some special router bits I bought just for this cut alone, everything turned out well.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2096_zpsd41569ad.webp
Views:	86
Size:	23.6 KB
ID:	932230

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2101_zps2bc789be.webp
Views:	77
Size:	18.1 KB
ID:	932231

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2097_zps66f98c9a.webp
Views:	78
Size:	13.6 KB
ID:	932232

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2171_zps541a1331.webp
Views:	81
Size:	17.0 KB
ID:	932233

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2170_zpse28cac1f.webp
Views:	86
Size:	17.5 KB
ID:	932234




    Keeping with the car interior theme I decided to use some leather along the bottom of the speaker to resemble hand stitched leather seats. Borrowing my mothers sewing machine and some funny looks from the women at JoAnn Fabrics yielded the necessary materials. After another afternoon swearing at myself I ended up with the lower coverings.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2190_zps099e5f70.webp
Views:	78
Size:	13.9 KB
ID:	932235

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2191_zps8fb9fd9f.webp
Views:	86
Size:	11.8 KB
ID:	932236

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2196_zpsdcf2c07a.webp
Views:	82
Size:	10.6 KB
ID:	932237

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2193_zpscb016d08.webp
Views:	81
Size:	13.7 KB
ID:	932238

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2219_zps0ecc40b0.webp
Views:	81
Size:	15.7 KB
ID:	932239

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2220_zps04c8569e.webp
Views:	85
Size:	18.9 KB
ID:	932240

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2221_zps8f914b74.webp
Views:	84
Size:	15.2 KB
ID:	932241

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2222_zps1abb9afb.webp
Views:	83
Size:	25.2 KB
ID:	932242




    Now for the pièce de résistance if you will. In keeping with my theme I decided to take a bold leap and purchase the following below:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2205_zps396e3626.webp
Views:	79
Size:	29.6 KB
ID:	932243

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2204_zps18bc34cb.webp
Views:	78
Size:	30.7 KB
ID:	932244

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2206_zpsd4396c87.webp
Views:	81
Size:	17.9 KB
ID:	932245

    40 square feet of real carbon fiber! I figured if that stuff is good enough for automotive trim, F1 frames, and the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner then it is good enough for my speakers. The one bad thing working with the stuff that I purchased was that it already had a piano clear finish on one side that can/will scratch very, very, VERY easily. That meant as soon as I applied each side I had to cover it up so I could run the router with a flush trim bit without scratching anything.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2210_zps3418a81f.webp
Views:	85
Size:	37.6 KB
ID:	932246

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2211_zps4a7b16aa.webp
Views:	78
Size:	18.1 KB
ID:	932247

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2212_zps0c7347af.webp
Views:	83
Size:	21.9 KB
ID:	932248




    Finally, I wanted a visual transition piece from the carbon fiber to the lower leather. I was just going to add an aluminum strip between the two. However, after looking at how the strip would have just laid on top and not looked professional I swallowed real hard, hoped that I wouldn't ruin the hundreds of dollars of carbon fiber already glued on the speaker and routed a dado around the speaker. That allowed the trim strip to become flush with the face and sides of the enclosure and look sleek. I was sooooo glad that it worked out well.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2214_zps9bc9297d.webp
Views:	83
Size:	14.1 KB
ID:	932249

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2216_zpsa13cf60c.webp
Views:	84
Size:	10.4 KB
ID:	932250

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2218_zpseacb675d.webp
Views:	78
Size:	11.6 KB
ID:	932251

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2225_zps69003eb8.webp
Views:	82
Size:	10.6 KB
ID:	932252

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2236_zps21995800.webp
Views:	74
Size:	28.8 KB
ID:	932253

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2237_zpsc9a3d97b.webp
Views:	84
Size:	11.7 KB
ID:	932254

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2235_zps5160beee.webp
Views:	77
Size:	12.0 KB
ID:	932255




    So after all of that I placed the crossovers inside the empty space, hooked everything up, and set them up in my garage for an afternoon to help them break in. I only have 2-3 hours on them so far so I will reserve my listening impressions until I can properly set them up inside and have a good listen. However, that didn't stop me from relaxing after my 3 month building journey to enjoy the fruits of my labors with some tasty 21 year old sipping rum and a great cigar!

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2228_zpsbe32d1ca.webp
Views:	77
Size:	62.7 KB
ID:	932256

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2227_zps34744d1d.webp
Views:	79
Size:	16.1 KB
ID:	932257

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2232_zps0f985a15.webp
Views:	77
Size:	69.4 KB
ID:	932258

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2233_zps68bdb294.webp
Views:	73
Size:	40.6 KB
ID:	932259

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2230_zps85d49c38.webp
Views:	83
Size:	78.1 KB
ID:	932260

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2231_zps44a1d956.webp
Views:	82
Size:	82.0 KB
ID:	932261

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2229_zps05d97427.webp
Views:	85
Size:	24.1 KB
ID:	932262

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2239_zps6e75b69d.webp
Views:	78
Size:	73.4 KB
ID:	932263

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2241_zps179c22d3.webp
Views:	79
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	932264

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2242_zps3932c39d.webp
Views:	76
Size:	39.6 KB
ID:	932265

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2238_zps915cb675.webp
Views:	79
Size:	26.5 KB
ID:	932266

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2243_zpsfb688816.webp
Views:	80
Size:	27.9 KB
ID:	932267

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2251_zps7e534f4e.webp
Views:	258
Size:	46.1 KB
ID:	932268

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2247_zps95b31e9a.webp
Views:	246
Size:	20.8 KB
ID:	932269
    Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:28 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
    BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.
  • Jim Holtz
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 3223

    #2
    Wow! A very unique cabinet design that looks great! :T I'm looking forward to hearing your listening impressions.

    Jim

    Comment

    • wkhanna
      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
      • Jan 2006
      • 5673

      #3
      Once again, Michael, you take it to the N'th degree!

      Absolutely amazing!

      I can not wait till we get together with Dan (PewterTA) to listen to them!
      _


      Bill

      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

      FinleyAudio

      Comment

      • Finleyville
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 350

        #4
        Well, we took these to PewterTA's house yesterday for a real audition since I have no where to put them in my current place. There were 5 of us listening to these from both a brand new Yamaha receiver, then connected to a Rotel amp. The source material was lossless tracks from a central music server connected throughout the house. As a direct comparison, downstairs lives a set of sublime B&W 802 Diamond series speakers hooked up to a bunch of Rotel gear playing the same server sourced tracks. (Not a fair comparison, I know....) Both the Finalists and the Yamaha have less than 20 hours on them.

        I had planned on doing a small review on their sound. However, since I left them at PewterTA's house so they could break in I have decided to keep my comments to myself until I can go back after some time. I am interested to see if I can hear a speaker break in in the first place. After my second visit I plan on not only reporting their current sound, but also the differences, if any, that I perceived after they have gained some playing time. I am looking forward to this totally non-scientific experiment.
        BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

        Comment

        • PewterTA
          Moderator
          • Nov 2004
          • 2901

          #5
          They Rock. Enough said.

          Actually we will be doing a full review here soon after some "break-in" and a little more proper speaker placement. We all agreed so far that they are very sensitive to room placement. Which due to current networking and cable connections in the house, caused the speakers to be in a not so optimal position. I'm hoping to get time to run the network and cable over to a different wall....but I have some work to do to figure out the top plate positions and if I have any potential blockage (horizontal bracing in the outside wall). Once I do that, I can definitely move things.

          Course I'm not opposed to have a 25' network cable and RG9 cable running across the floor for a little bit... hee hee.

          But since Michael didn't hear them in the corrected positions I might not move them until he at least hears them one more time before the move.
          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
          -Dan

          Comment

          • wkhanna
            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2006
            • 5673

            #6
            Poor Michael, he backs down from no challenge yet sets his performance standard so high.
            Just as Kermit struggled with his outward tinting, so to, does my V, V good & special friend, Michael, battle his demon of perfection demanded from everything he does.

            Not only does he require the brutal honesty of Dan (PewterTA) & my criticism after his Finalists’ were gentility transported down to Dan’s house yesterday for audition (where they now reside for a few hundred hours of break-in), but the reference system for their comparison is comprised of B&W 802di’s & a modified Rotel RMB-1090 amp.

            Michael’s Finalists’ were pared to Dan’s new Yamaha rx-a820 receiver. After an initial evaluation, we also by-passed the internal amp in the Yamaha, routing the line-level signal from the Yamaha’s DAC through Dan’s modified Rotel RB-1080 2 ch amplifier. Thusly arranged, Michael’s Finalists’ took full advantage of the tighter cone control that tightened up the bass significantly & the sweeter hi-end frequency that added some detail sparkle. In other words, these speakers deftly & honestly revealed all the improvements the modified 1080 had to offer compared to the Yamaha’s still respectable output.

            Michael has set his expectation bar quite high (as usual). While he may initially feel he has not hit his mark, from my standpoint, I find these Finalists’ quite the impressive product of his creative imagination, building skills, execution & sound quality.

            Prior to getting into the ‘how do they sound’ part, I first must comment on the esthetic & build quality. To be brutally honest, Michael’s description of his initial concept just did not ring true for my personal taste. I am quite the traditionalist, despite having great appreciation for the bold, creative & modern. Hey, I love Andy Warhol. I just do not want to live in his museum.

            But then yesterday, I saw them, up close. I could smell them. I could sense them; feel the ‘vibe’ they give off just sitting there. These things sing before you put any power to them. The corners are so clean, so sharp. As multiple planes of real carbon fiber meet to form edges so straight, so crisp, so perfect they could cut your retina quicker than a laser just by looking at them too long. The fit & stitching of the coal-black leather is immaculate. The fit, the form, the presence they command in the room is one of strategic purpose, not a bling-bling boy-racer wanna-be that in all sincerity I was afraid I would see once Michael’s creation made its debut. But knowing Michael as I do, I should have known better. These things are serious. Stunning. The concept……. The choice of materials……… the execution…….. All are are such that I have only ever seen at a true ‘craftsman’ level. I could easily live with these. And though they would not blend well at all with the interior décor of my listening room, they certainly would not degrade or cheapen it. I think the best compliment was from one our friends who arrived later & commented how handsome these were & asked, “Just what brand of speaker are those?”

            I can not imagine a better complement.

            I also feel these are just one of those rare things...... a photo, regardless of the care & quality, will never be abel the convey the true beauty of these gorgeous cabinets.

            On to the listening impressions:

            Bass-
            Full & with authority down to what I would estimate by ear to be around 35 Hz.
            (We will verify with a measured feq sweep soon.)
            Not overly bloated. Solid on dynamic, synth/electro style music.
            Good, if not great timbre on acoustic string bass.
            Overall quite impressive & pleasing & staying fairly accurate for a ported 8” inch woofer.

            Mid-
            Sweet. Obviously the strength of this design. All sounds were V accurate regardless of whether voice, male or female; or instrument type from brass wind to plucked or bowed string to piano. Timbre was also spot-on.

            Overall, truly quite impressive.

            Hi Freq-
            Accurate, clean.
            Reactive to the quality of the source, these will never hide imperfections in the music or equipment.
            But they will in turn reward good quality recordings especially when partnered with good equipment.
            The overall quality was one with a gentle, rolled-off upper end. No errors or colorations of an additive nature. Nor is it a sharp clipping characteristic. A smooth, non-fatiguing nature in the upper most registers.

            3D depth-
            The stage is set at or just inches behind the front baffle to my ear. Depending on the source material, a sense of music coming behind the wall was evident.

            Imaging-
            Some more time spent fine tuning the positioning; both toe & distance from the back wall will in my estimation prove beneficial, as we simply did not have enough time to experiment. With minimal time for tweaking, these seem to have a rather focused ‘sweet spot’. Their throw, both horizontal & vertical were wider & taller than their placement. Overall, Images were in the correct location, if not fully anchored 100% of the time.

            Dynamics & timing showed no glaring deficiencies. It was easy for Michael’s Finalists’ to get your toe tapping.

            There were a lot people, & not enough time to make judgmental criticism of the speakers. Also, they are green & fresh out of the box, as was the DAC in the Yamaha. I believe the next time we hear them, they will be much more free & uninhibited. A bit more lively. Don’t not get me wrong, these are no wall flowers we are talking about, here. I just think that after some time they will attain that last ‘nth degree of involvement. That essence that just draws you into the music & transports you. I truly believe the potential is there. Whether through time or some V slight adjustments in the HF crossover, these will become all you wanted them to be. As they spend time with Dan, and he works with the placement & both electrical & mechanical break-in process progresses, we will then revisit the Finalists’ for their “Grande Finale”.

            Until then, Michael, rest. Relax. Take a deep breathe……..then exhale.
            When we come back, & with less self-induced pressure & expectation, I think you will, like me come to see & hear all that is good with your creations. And be able to live peacefully with the tiniest of imperfection only the one who created them could ever be aware.
            _


            Bill

            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

            FinleyAudio

            Comment

            • PewterTA
              Moderator
              • Nov 2004
              • 2901

              #7
              I fixed them................... took me 15 minutes to fix them in all honesty. They are like different speakers. Much closer to everything I love about the 802Ds. Just a little repositioning.... and changing out the foam for polyfil in the mid and I have imaging pretty darn good and the mid is very clear. But toned down ever so slightly... we were hearing the colorization of the backwave of the mid... filling with polyfil instead of the foam fixed that.

              Highs are sparkling more, but still have some break in to happen I honestly think. I also flipped the switch as it was choking the highs...amazing what a little flip of a switch can do. I'M THOROUGHLY enjoying my 802 minis. Lol.

              I can't wait for you guys to hear them again..... don't leave me with speakers I can play around with.... I'll make them sound good.
              Digital Audio makes me Happy.
              -Dan

              Comment

              • wkhanna
                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                • Jan 2006
                • 5673

                #8
                Originally posted by PewterTA
                I fixed them...................
                Oh....OK then.......

                ...never mind........


                ......the power of positive thought, maybe ???????


                Hey Michael!!!!!!!!!!

                They are done now!!!!!!
                _


                Bill

                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                FinleyAudio

                Comment

                • Finleyville
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 350

                  #9
                  Originally posted by PewterTA
                  I fixed them................... took me 15 minutes to fix them in all honesty. They are like different speakers.
                  I will respectfully remain skeptical until I get to hear them again. Although I never thought they were bad to begin with.


                  Originally posted by wkhanna
                  Hey Michael !!!!!!! They are done now!!!!!!!
                  Yup. I hear the sarcasm loud and clear. heehee
                  BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                  Comment

                  • wkhanna
                    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 5673

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Finleyville
                    Although I never thought they were bad to begin with.
                    Are you kidding?
                    They were V good!
                    I can not wait to hear them now!


                    Originally posted by wkhanna
                    Hey Michael !!!!!!! They are done now!!!!!!!
                    Originally posted by Finleyville
                    Yup. I hear the sarcasm loud and clear. heehee
                    No sarcasm intended!

                    Dan just has a 'Midas Touch'!
                    Last edited by wkhanna; 23 July 2013, 21:53 Tuesday.
                    _


                    Bill

                    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                    FinleyAudio

                    Comment

                    • PewterTA
                      Moderator
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 2901

                      #11
                      Well it looks like some testing between speakers is in order now that I got things working better.

                      Image not available

                      Until you stop hearing one channel............... then that ends the normal comparison...... lol.

                      See what Finalists will do to amps. HA HA HA.

                      Actually I think my B&Ws were plugged in at the time. But as soon as the right channel went out I knew what it was.... and I was right.

                      Image not available

                      Well now I'm starting to think if I want to upgrade to audiophile grade fuses or just buy cheap ones again...!?!??!!??
                      Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:29 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
                      Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                      -Dan

                      Comment

                      • Finleyville
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 350

                        #12
                        Which B&W's are those on the chairs?
                        BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                        Comment

                        • wkhanna
                          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                          • Jan 2006
                          • 5673

                          #13
                          Those are his modified 602's, IINM.

                          BTW, those are NOT chairs, they are the latest in hi-tech, Quantum-Nano, isolation-infusion, reflective-imbedding, EMF-EMI emission-absorptive, frontal lobe- enhancing, earwax canceling speaker stands.

                          I am pretty sure he got them at the Seltaphools Audio Enhancement website.
                          _


                          Bill

                          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                          FinleyAudio

                          Comment

                          • PewterTA
                            Moderator
                            • Nov 2004
                            • 2901

                            #14
                            Those are my rears from downstairs, the B&W 602s3 models. Slight modification, though the change in sound quality is not as slight (IMO). Even Bill can attest to the differences the changes on the speakers made as I demoed them for him and had him guess which was the modified set...... (and it was double blind as I didn't even know which set was which). It took us about 10 seconds to know which set had been modified.

                            Bill is also correct that these speaker stands incorporate the latest technologies from multiple fields covering every aspect of "the perfect speaker stand." I originally was going to take them out of the picture, but decided to give people a sneak peak at perfection.

                            Really I was just too lazy to bring up the stands (weighing in at 30lbs each, the stands are not fun to move) and figured to just pull these two extra chairs that honestly do quite well as stands.

                            Before the fuse gave out... I have to say the biggest difference, so far, is that the 602s are pretty pinpoint on their imaging and the high frequencies are more prominent. Now by that, I mean that they are always there no matter what music is playing. So far I've see that the Finalists, some songs the highs are right on, others the highs appear missing.... it's sort of odd and I can only think of break in that would do this type of thing. So for now, we're back to using the yamaha as the amp and it definitely does NOT have the imaging to it *yet*. I know James' old Yamaha (that was the model before this one) took it a while before it started imaging properly. He even came in one day after I had heard them and had the biggest grin on his face and said, "My speakers image now!" So from that I'm guessing that the amp will change and start imaging properly soon... course that's if I could remember to run it while I'm at work... things would happen more quickly. ha ha.

                            The laptop playing through the Yamaha was also a nice improvement... just goes to show that even though it playing the music on it's own vs being fed via the MF V-Link192... the 192 definitely makes things sound better.

                            On a side note, I bought replacement Bussmann fuses in both glass and ceramic... have to see which I like (bought enough for all amps in the house and in some of the other components). I figured the audiophile grade ones will have to wait as I just don't want to blow about $500 to $1000 in fuses (sort of like Pringles...can't just have one!) once all said and done by replacing them all....
                            Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                            -Dan

                            Comment

                            • Jim Holtz
                              Ultra Senior Member
                              • Mar 2005
                              • 3223

                              #15
                              Hi guys,

                              It's been a lot of fun to follow the build and now you're listening tests. You mentioned that you'd be doing some measurements so I thought I'd post the ones my friend Todd Premo did at his house. The Finalists were positioned at 18" and 24" in front of an untreated wall in his family room. The mid tunnel was open with 6 1/2" of 1" flat foam in the rear of the tunnel.

                              Just a thought as you play with positioning. I like to listen to my speakers slightly off axis so Curt designs the crossover to accomplish that for me. I sit about 15' back from the speakers with approximately 11' between them. They are positioned to face straight forward so I'm listening at about 15 degrees off axis. FWIW, I ask Curt to strive to recreate a live performance rather than create "pinpoint" imaging. For my tastes, live performance is more real and satisfying.

                              I'm looking forward to hearing more of your feedback as you play with them some more. BTW, thanks for the excellent and well written thoughts on sound quality!

                              Jim

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	finalists_18in_open.JPG
Views:	1822
Size:	90.2 KB
ID:	858540

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	finalists_24in_open.JPG
Views:	1909
Size:	92.2 KB
ID:	858541
                              Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:28 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location

                              Comment

                              • Hdale85
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 16075

                                #16
                                Hey Michael, they look great! I'd love to hear them sometime for sure!

                                I'm curious, you say you changed drivers? Were modifications made to the crossover for this? Were you guys running them open back I'm guessing?

                                Comment

                                • wkhanna
                                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 5673

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Jim Holtz
                                  Hi guys,

                                  It's been a lot of fun to follow the build and now you're listening tests. You mentioned that you'd be doing some measurements so I thought I'd post the ones my friend Todd Premo did at his house. The Finalists were positioned at 18" and 24" in front of an untreated wall in his family room. The mid tunnel was open with 6 1/2" of 1" flat foam in the rear of the tunnel.

                                  Just a thought as you play with positioning. I like to listen to my speakers slightly off axis so Curt designs the crossover to accomplish that for me. I sit about 15' back from the speakers with approximately 11' between them. They are positioned to face straight forward so I'm listening at about 15 degrees off axis. FWIW, I ask Curt to strive to recreate a live performance rather than create "pinpoint" imaging. For my tastes, live performance is more real and satisfying.

                                  I'm looking forward to hearing more of your feedback as you play with them some more. BTW, thanks for the excellent and well written thoughts on sound quality!

                                  Jim
                                  Hey Jim!

                                  Thank you for the graphs & insight on positioning & design performance goals.

                                  These really are great speakers. You guys should feel quite proud of this design.

                                  In the capable hands of Dan (PewterTA), we will have these tuned to their optimal performance in no time & be able to offer further impressions.

                                  Be well,
                                  Bill
                                  _


                                  Bill

                                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                  FinleyAudio

                                  Comment

                                  • Finleyville
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Sep 2006
                                    • 350

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Hdale85
                                    I'm curious, you say you changed drivers? Were modifications made to the crossover for this? Were you guys running them open back I'm guessing?
                                    There were no changes made to the crossover. The differences in drivers were minimal. I already owned the discontinued RS225 shielded drivers instead of the unshielded ones. Jim explained to me that the shielded ones need about 50 liters instead of their original 35 liters. That is the reason that these are floorstanding instead of bookshelves. In addition, I also owned a pair of the RS28 aluminum instead of the silks. But those two tweets are so close that they can be interchanged with any design/crossover changes.

                                    Yes, we were listening to them open backed.


                                    @Jim,

                                    Thank you for your design techniques and insights. I am glad that you explained how the both of you design and voice a project. That will help in understanding that what I am hearing is exactly what is meant to be heard, and that I didn't mess something up with the construction.
                                    BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                    Comment

                                    • Finleyville
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Sep 2006
                                      • 350

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by wkhanna
                                      BTW, those are NOT chairs, they are the latest in hi-tech, Quantum-Nano, isolation-infusion, reflective-imbedding, EMF-EMI emission-absorptive, frontal lobe- enhancing, earwax canceling speaker stands.

                                      I am pretty sure he got them at the Seltaphools Audio Enhancement website.
                                      Actually, I am more impressed with the innocent looking glass vase beside the stereo stack that doubles as both a ultra high frequency amplifier and a first order null light diffuser so that those stray sunbeams that cross the listening field do not produce any comb filtering to the audio output.


                                      Having said that, isn't it a rule around here that if you take a picture of a stereo setup that you MUST include a shot of your foot stretched out in front? I just figured that was a standing order since just about everyone else includes theirs in the shot...
                                      BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                      Comment

                                      • PewterTA
                                        Moderator
                                        • Nov 2004
                                        • 2901

                                        #20
                                        Really, and everyone tends to miss this, the magic happens in the corrugated sound vibration absorption cube that is securing the laptop and keeping it decoupled from the rest of the environment.
                                        Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                        -Dan

                                        Comment

                                        • PewterTA
                                          Moderator
                                          • Nov 2004
                                          • 2901

                                          #21
                                          Well after listening more and more, they are finally starting to break in I feel.... Still need more time on them and I will have to do a few days of playing all day I think.

                                          I have to say they love power. The more the better!!! We hooked up my Rotel RB-1080 and that has definitely provided a much better sound than what the amp in the Yamaha R820 can do. I'm also finding these are very very touchy about their placement. The slightest little movement can make them seem off or better.

                                          Just recently I got a set of maple plinths that will eventually make their way under my B&W 802Dis, but for now (since I'm not moving those myself and need the discs they will reside on) I figured I'd put them under the Finalists. I have to say it has improved the bass, tightened it up and brought the imaging in better.

                                          I'll throw up a picture here tomorrow, but over all I'm thoroughly enjoying the speakers. For my personal tastes the mid range is slightly overpowering, but then again, I'm comparing them to some pretty neutral speakers downstairs that do mids very well. However, in saying that, the Finalist's mids are nothing short of spectacular. There's vocal presence and clarity there that I've not heard on a speaker even closer to price range of this build. Still waiting for the tweeter to really come into it's own. There's definitely times where it shines, but then other times on various tracks where I really expect more. The later is becoming less and less though, so I really feel that the whole break-in thing does seem to happen, believe it or not.

                                          I'm definitely enjoying my extended demoing session Michael has provided to me!!!
                                          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                          -Dan

                                          Comment

                                          • Jim Holtz
                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                            • Mar 2005
                                            • 3223

                                            #22
                                            Thanks for the feedback on The Finalists. Is there any chance you could post a picture of the way they're setup? If you have a flat wall with nothing impeding the back wave, I've found them to be very easy to set up with a very large soundstage and sweet spot. I'd like to see how they're setup in your room.

                                            Also, you might check the position of the switch. With the resistor bypassed, the mids should be louder to compensate for closed mids, close wall positioning. With the switch flipped to include the resistor, the mids should blend seamlessly when the Finalists are positioned 18" - 36" from the wall behind them and the mids are open.

                                            I've been playing with my Finalists and Statements the last few days. Here are a couple pictures of how they're positioned. No rocket science, just plopped them on stands next to the Statements and hooked them up.

                                            Keep on listening and posting feedback!

                                            Jim

                                            Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_4422 (Large).jpg
Views:	1
Size:	89.7 KB
ID:	858599Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_4423 (Large).jpg
Views:	1
Size:	47.2 KB
ID:	858600

                                            Comment

                                            • Finleyville
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Sep 2006
                                              • 350

                                              #23
                                              Thanks for the pics Jim!

                                              I think PewterTA has the switch in the "back closed" position because we were trying to open up the tweeter a little more. Now that perhaps the drivers are breaking in we could switch back to the "open" setting to see how much tweeter we lose. Also, I remember him replacing the tunnel foam with some accoustic-fil. We could always switch back to the original foam. I imagine the mid might not be as forward if we do that.

                                              Another member here brought to my attention that I probably have placed the two coils in the tweeter and mid section in the xover too close together. Because of this the values are going to be off. When I get them back in my hands I will attempt to relocate one of them on the board.

                                              After all PewterTA's hard work in setting these up and breaking/tweaking them it will be a small shame when I have to come and collect them to place in my own home. I know for sure they will miss that Rotel power goodness...
                                              BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                              Comment

                                              • Curt C
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Feb 2005
                                                • 791

                                                #24
                                                Hi Michael,

                                                Granted, the changes you made to the design, the RS28A, RS225S, and stuffing the mid chamber individually should not make much difference, but collectively, you may find you need to make some small tweaks. I might note that B&W in general like to voice their designs a little differently than I do. In my experience, they like to run the tweeters 'hotter' than my preference, so I'm not surprised you find the Finalist's high end a little laid back compared to the 802D. Give the Finalists some time. You may find you end up finding the existing tweeter level sounds more natural. Should you need to boost the tweeter, I'd suggest you substitute a 3.3 ohm or a 2.7 ohm for R3011. these will change the response above 5K by approximately 0.5 dB and 1.5 dB respectively. Also, keep in mind that the switch brings up both the mid and the tweeter together. With your speaker placement, you'll want R0011 shorted, or the bass will be overdone...

                                                C
                                                Curt's Speaker Design Works

                                                Comment

                                                • Jim Holtz
                                                  Ultra Senior Member
                                                  • Mar 2005
                                                  • 3223

                                                  #25
                                                  I keep forgetting that RS28A's were substituted for RS28F's as used in the original design. The "A" version are rolled off on top compared to the "F's". I'm not surprised that you're experiencing a significant difference in the top end in comparison to the 802's.

                                                  Thanks for adding your thoughts Curt!

                                                  Jim

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Finleyville
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Sep 2006
                                                    • 350

                                                    #26
                                                    To the both of you thank you very much. I own a pair of RS28A's and AS's. I chose the A's because I generally prefer a metal tweeter.

                                                    Curt: Thank you for you help with the xover. I will probably order a 3.3 and 2.7 resistor to place in the tweeter circuit. The switch does control both the tweeter and mid output so I was surprised when PewterTA chose to flip the switch to the closed back position in his listening.

                                                    If that doesn't work then I will probably purchase the RS28F's and see if that does the trick. I am sure that I can get these things to really, really sing!
                                                    BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • PewterTA
                                                      Moderator
                                                      • Nov 2004
                                                      • 2901

                                                      #27
                                                      I don't think there's any changes really needed for the tweeter end. I think part of it is everything breaking in.

                                                      There's points where the Finalists tweeter is very similar in characteristics exactly to my B&Ws... the B&Ws just have more detail (which isn't what I'm referring to). The issue I've had (and still slightly have) is that a cymbal on a song is almost completely missing when I play it on the Finalists and it's in perfect position on the B&Ws. Almost like a muffled, too far in the background type of feel. But then on another track (different album), the Finalists produce the same type of cymbal exactly like the B&Ws. Trumpets come put and sound perfect as well on the Finalist, but then I'll play another song that the trumpets are more in the background and I feel like I can't hear them at all. But the B&Ws put them perfectly in the background (just not as loud as a different song).

                                                      It's not happening near as much and I'm still correlating it to everything working itself in, I haven't gotten quite as much time on them as I'd have liked...but they are getting there.

                                                      Right now, I'll have to snap a picture when I get home tonight, I have them about 6' to 7' apart and if I had to guess, I'd say about 14"s or so from the wall. I have the switch in the "less midrange" position because the mids were just over powering. Since I put in the cotton fill (which I'm only using half of what I'd do, about half the tube filled) that has lowered the "stand out" of the mids and moved them slightly behind the speakers. I know some of this is room placement as I'm going across the shorter side of the room vs. the length of the room like I should be doing. It's because I haven't wired that wall yet for streaming. I also wanted to leave them there since that's where Michael heard them before.

                                                      They keep getting better and better and heading in the right direction in my opinion! Just got to take more time. I am very surprised on how power hungry they are. I have to go +10db over any other speaker I have to get the same volume....so it definitely takes some power to make these sing!
                                                      Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                      -Dan

                                                      Comment

                                                      • PewterTA
                                                        Moderator
                                                        • Nov 2004
                                                        • 2901

                                                        #28
                                                        I know the RS28A is slightly different than the RS28F, which I don't think is the problem. Then the highs sing, they really sing well. And it's the same driver that WKHanna has in his NatPs, so I know the driver itself can produce the highs. I really still think it's a lot to do with breaking in.
                                                        Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                        -Dan

                                                        Comment

                                                        • PewterTA
                                                          Moderator
                                                          • Nov 2004
                                                          • 2901

                                                          #29
                                                          Here's where I got them sitting that they sound the best so far. They are about 9 to 10"s from the wall. If I pull them out more they really get a very forward presentation that I don't care for. Right now the sound stage is just behind where the speakers are, which I like. I'm sure I could do more with them if I had them going from right aiming towards the left in the picture as that's the length of the room.

                                                          Image not available
                                                          Last edited by theSven; 05 April 2023, 21:30 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
                                                          Digital Audio makes me Happy.
                                                          -Dan

                                                          Comment

                                                          • Finleyville
                                                            Senior Member
                                                            • Sep 2006
                                                            • 350

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by PewterTA
                                                            I'm sure I could do more with them if I had them going from right aiming towards the left in the picture as that's the length of the room.
                                                            It probably will sound better longways. However, I will not have that much room when I put them in my own house. So I think I will get a better representation of their final sound the way they are set up now.
                                                            BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Finleyville
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Sep 2006
                                                              • 350

                                                              #31
                                                              Anyway...

                                                              We had another audio gtg yesterday which I had chosen to swap a resistor in the crossover. As per Curt C's instrumental instructions I swapped R3011 to raise the response above 5k Hz.

                                                              Holy Cow! I think this is what the speaker was supposed to sound like! I really think my older RS28a's that I used was the reason for the lower response for the high end.

                                                              I now have that upper octave sparkle that was missing before. Female vocals sound more realistic. All of us present instantly heard the difference and all agreed that the speakers sound more neutral across the whole freq range. By raising above 5k we now didn't have to turn up the volume quite as much to hear the detail. This allowed the excellent midrange to sit back and shine rather than jump out and try to carry the sound.

                                                              The only wrinkle is that Meniscus sent 2.2 ohm resistors instead of the 2.7 ohm ones I ordered. I didn't realize this until I had replaced the 3.9 ohms in the original design. I do not know how much dB boost that gave it. Perhaps Curt can chime in here. I am guessing a +2.5 dB boost. I might REorder the 2.7 ohm resistors as Curt originally offered and perhaps a set of 2.4 ohms as well.

                                                              I am so happy with the way that they sound now. I am looking forward to getting them back to my home and setting them up!


                                                              Thank you Curt and Jim for a fantastic design. Three people who listened to the adjusted sound thought that these perform on par with some $5000-$7000 commercial designs they heard at the recent Washington DC audio fest. And better than some $10k+ systems! Hopefully, some of them will chime in here to confirm my impressions. Thanks again.
                                                              BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                              Comment

                                                              • Jim Holtz
                                                                Ultra Senior Member
                                                                • Mar 2005
                                                                • 3223

                                                                #32
                                                                Hi Michael,

                                                                Awesome! I'm really pleased they're meeting your expectations now. I also think you're spot on that the RS28a's were pulling down the top end. That is the reason I selected the "F" version. It has the top end sparkle that my aging ears like. :T

                                                                Great feedback! We appreciate your thoughts.

                                                                Thank you Curt and Jim for a fantastic design. Three people who listened to the adjusted sound thought that these perform on par with some $5000-$7000 commercial designs they heard at the recent Washington DC audio fest. And better than some $10k+ systems! Hopefully, some of them will chime in here to confirm my impressions. Thanks again.
                                                                Opps! I forgot to respond to this part of your message. Yes, I agree.... :B

                                                                Jim
                                                                Last edited by Jim Holtz; 29 September 2013, 19:16 Sunday. Reason: Added thoughts.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • wkhanna
                                                                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                  • 5673

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Michael arrived at Dan’s early on Saturday & had the modifications completed by the time I got there. I immediately queued up one of my reference songs in Hi-Res format that incorporates some delicate brush work on the snare. The transformation in Michael’s speakers was immediate & V positive in direction. The top-end was now exhibiting the ‘sparkle’ that was originally missing, & mids were now balanced across the entire frequency range rather being obviously pronounced as they had been. However, the mids still maintained the exceptional detail & naturalness that had impressed us so much when we first auditioned Michael’s Finalists.

                                                                  To my ears, in their current configuration, these are exceptionally good speakers. Very balanced, detailed & accurate. They are V similar to my own speakers, the Natalie Portman’s, in the hi & mid range with the added benefit in the low end that the larger woofer & 3-way design provides.

                                                                  Well done, Michael!

                                                                  And the same to Jim & Curt for an exceptionally well performing design!
                                                                  Last edited by wkhanna; 30 September 2013, 18:49 Monday. Reason: Apologies to Jim, I got his name correct now
                                                                  _


                                                                  Bill

                                                                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                  FinleyAudio

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • Curt C
                                                                    Senior Member
                                                                    • Feb 2005
                                                                    • 791

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Finleyville
                                                                    The only wrinkle is that Meniscus sent 2.2 ohm resistors instead of the 2.7 ohm ones I ordered. I didn't realize this until I had replaced the 3.9 ohms in the original design. I do not know how much dB boost that gave it. Perhaps Curt can chime in here. I am guessing a +2.5 dB boost. I might REorder the 2.7 ohm resistors as Curt originally offered and perhaps a set of 2.4 ohms as well.
                                                                    Ah! Its good to hear you are now finding the Finalists performance to your liking.

                                                                    Here’s some information that may help you with your resistor choices:
                                                                    According to the Finalists model, the difference in response above 10 kHz between the 2.2 and the 2.7 is about 0.5 dB. The difference between 3.9 and 2.7 ohms is about 1.4 dB.

                                                                    Consider that many tweeters can easily vary by a dB from lot to lot or even tweeter to tweeter. Add to this the differing absorption characteristics between listening environments as well, and a good case might be made for the necessity of some minor tweeter adjustments to optimize the response. Fortunately this represents a trivial task for most DIY enthusiasts.

                                                                    I suggest listening to a wide variety of music while choosing your final resistor. One engineers idea of sufficient ‘air’ may not reflect the average opinion of the majority.

                                                                    C
                                                                    Curt's Speaker Design Works

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Finleyville
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Sep 2006
                                                                      • 350

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Curt C
                                                                      I suggest listening to a wide variety of music while choosing your final resistor. One engineers idea of sufficient ‘air’ may not reflect the average opinion of the majority.
                                                                      That is a good suggestion and one that I had already planned for. I have ordered more resistors. Once I have my speakers back in my possession I can swap out that resistor to fine tune the upper response to my liking in the room. I will then have 3.3, 2.7, 2.4, and 2.2 ohm resistors to choose from. I am very excited.

                                                                      I just purchased an Adcom GFP-565 preamp for these things. Before I thought I needed to find a bright sounding amp to pair to these speakers. I am very pleased that because of the resistor "rolling" I am no longer restricted in my choice. Yea me!
                                                                      BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • blue934
                                                                        Member
                                                                        • Mar 2008
                                                                        • 91

                                                                        #36
                                                                        I know I'm a bit late to this party but these are fantastic! I love the aluminum detail rings.

                                                                        David

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Finleyville
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Sep 2006
                                                                          • 350

                                                                          #37
                                                                          I am necro posting to give a long term update to the sound of these things. My system has grown and matured over the last 3 years only for the better and so has the sound. The design of these is top notch.

                                                                          Newest system:

                                                                          Odyssey Candella preamp with PSVane MKII 12AU7 tubes
                                                                          Odyssey Kismet mono amps
                                                                          Chord Mojo DAC
                                                                          Windows 7 laptop running JRiver
                                                                          high cost power cabling and RCA cords
                                                                          PS Audio power regenerator


                                                                          I cannot deny this simple fact so I will start off by impressing upon you this one piece of advice: the Finalists WANT power. Lots of big, clean power. These speakers will sound delightful and musical with your normal amplifiers. However, feed these at least 200W EACH of very high current and they will love you for it. This design seems like a high performance sports car. Yes, it will get your groceries at 35-45db (...er...mph) and work fine. But you really need to feed it premium race gasoline and drive them like it was designed. This speaker loves to be played at levels just louder than comfortable talking volume and higher for a smaller room. These want a larger room to shine. (Or no one to complain about the volume. lol)


                                                                          I might have complained about their imaging in the past. Nonsense. That was a byproduct of an old preamp and cheaper DAC. My center vocalists now are dead center coming from a single point. Everybody that listens now (including our illustrious wkhanna and PewterTA) has been floored by the presentation and atmosphere that these can reproduce. My one friend started to complain about a poor recording of a female vocalist until I explained that the sounds he was hearing were the inner micro noises coming from INSIDE the singers mouth and not some pops and clicks. My soundstage extends past the speaker's boundaries and has great depth.


                                                                          As long as you feed them plenty of power then you probably will not need a sub for music. They can be very quick and precise in the low end. The mids are where these shine. I really like voices with the Finalists. The highs are have just enough energy and shine without becoming harsh or glaring.


                                                                          This design I feel makes you take notice of the music and does not let go. It is real hard to have these playing in the background and not stop talking to just listen. I feel that these are very engaging and attention grabbing in a good way.
                                                                          BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • Jim Holtz
                                                                            Ultra Senior Member
                                                                            • Mar 2005
                                                                            • 3223

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by Finleyville
                                                                            I am necro posting to give a long term update to the sound of these things. My system has grown and matured over the last 3 years only for the better and so has the sound. The design of these is top notch.

                                                                            Newest system:

                                                                            Odyssey Candella preamp with PSVane MKII 12AU7 tubes
                                                                            Odyssey Kismet mono amps
                                                                            Chord Mojo DAC
                                                                            Windows 7 laptop running JRiver
                                                                            high cost power cabling and RCA cords
                                                                            PS Audio power regenerator


                                                                            I cannot deny this simple fact so I will start off by impressing upon you this one piece of advice: the Finalists WANT power. Lots of big, clean power. These speakers will sound delightful and musical with your normal amplifiers. However, feed these at least 200W EACH of very high current and they will love you for it. This design seems like a high performance sports car. Yes, it will get your groceries at 35-45db (...er...mph) and work fine. But you really need to feed it premium race gasoline and drive them like it was designed. This speaker loves to be played at levels just louder than comfortable talking volume and higher for a smaller room. These want a larger room to shine. (Or no one to complain about the volume. lol)


                                                                            I might have complained about their imaging in the past. Nonsense. That was a byproduct of an old preamp and cheaper DAC. My center vocalists now are dead center coming from a single point. Everybody that listens now (including our illustrious wkhanna and PewterTA) has been floored by the presentation and atmosphere that these can reproduce. My one friend started to complain about a poor recording of a female vocalist until I explained that the sounds he was hearing were the inner micro noises coming from INSIDE the singers mouth and not some pops and clicks. My soundstage extends past the speaker's boundaries and has great depth.


                                                                            As long as you feed them plenty of power then you probably will not need a sub for music. They can be very quick and precise in the low end. The mids are where these shine. I really like voices with the Finalists. The highs are have just enough energy and shine without becoming harsh or glaring.


                                                                            This design I feel makes you take notice of the music and does not let go. It is real hard to have these playing in the background and not stop talking to just listen. I feel that these are very engaging and attention grabbing in a good way.
                                                                            Thank you very much for the excellent and thorough review of the Finalists. You are correct, at 84 db sensitivity, they like power but you're rewarded with the sound quality they were designed to provide when you feed them the watts they need.

                                                                            As always, the sound quality is the result of Curt's crossover and design skills. He's the one with the brains in our collaboration.

                                                                            I'm pleased you're enjoying them.

                                                                            Jim

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            Working...
                                                                            Searching...Please wait.
                                                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                            An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                                                            Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                                                            An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                                                            There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                                                            Search Result for "|||"