Wavecor Ardent Journal - the first Builds

[kevinm]

The Poerter Cable orbital sander has been worth it's weight in gold!

Second that. I've been trying a few different piano black finishes on speakers and after frustratingly mediocre results from using a sanding block, I broke down and bought the PC sander - best decision I've made since adding a router to my tools. A day's worth of hand sanding can be done in an hour or so.

[JonMarsh]

Didn't quite get as far along as I'd hoped- didn't get to the rubout, had some other errands to do this afternoon- but the grilles were painted and dried, and the attachment with these relatively small magnets (compared to what I bought for the Isiris) works just fine! :T



The finish is like a slightly matte VOS finish from Gibson at this point- quite happy for the most part how it's turned out, but I expect a bit more pop after I finish the rub out (have 3M rubbing compound and special pads for the PC sander). Tomorrow I hope, though I have laundry and automotive chores, too!

[benthe8track]

Yeah compared to the parts express magnets the Lee Valley ones are thin. Just need to adjust your depth. Looks great!

I picked up one of those Wellers today for a good price from Amazon. Didn't spring for the digital but Dar47 has the analog one and it works better than any iron I've used before.

[JonMarsh]

The digital is handy at times for specialty tasks- that's why I spent the extra - for working with Litz wire like cable, like Cardas, to melt the magnet wire insulation off, you just have to crank the temp to about 650C. It's easy to optimize the iron temp setting for different types of solder. (now we're getting into my area of specialization- wires and sparks) :W

BTW, my favorite solder is still the Cardas Quad Eutectic- it's not ROHS, but it's mechanical properties and soldering are much nicer than any tin solder I've tried, even Cardas's Tri Eutectic. Quad Eutectic has a lower melting point, doesn't craze or crystalize with repeated rework, and flows better, IMO. YMMV, of course, and then there is that whole lead thing- if you like to eat solder, stay away from the Quad Eutectic!

[benthe8track]

The digital is handy at times for specialty tasks- that's why I spent the extra - for working with Litz wire like cable, like Cardas, to melt the magnet wire insulation off, you just have to crank the temp to about 650C. It's easy to optimize the iron temp setting for different types of solder. (now we're getting into my area of specialization- wires and sparks) :W

BTW, my favorite solder is still the Cardas Quad Eutectic- it's not ROHS, but it's mechanical properties and soldering are much nicer than any tin solder I've tried, even Cardas's Tri Eutectic. Quad Eutectic has a lower melting point, doesn't craze or crystalize with repeated rework, and flows better, IMO. YMMV, of course, and then there is that whole lead thing- if you like to eat solder, stay away from the Quad Eutectic!

I waffled on it for a bit, I guess if it comes down to it I'll hit it with the Raytek I grabbed from work (typically used for precision BBQ duty). Sold on the Cardas Quad Eutectic, I need to grab the Cardas XLR jacks from partsconnexion for the forthcoming amp anyways.

[JonMarsh]

I waffled on it for a bit, I guess if it comes down to it I'll hit it with the Raytek I grabbed from work (typically used for precision BBQ duty). Sold on the Cardas Quad Eutectic, I need to grab the Cardas XLR jacks from partsconnexion for the forthcoming amp anyways.

You won't regret it!

I decided to treat myself to a coffee out this AM, but still had to go touch the speakers to see if the surface really was a smooth and nice as I remembered yesterday... it was! I absolutely cannot emphasize enough how productive the PC orbital sander and Mirka disks and pads made that whole process! I'll be using it for the rub out today (if I get to it- car work first this AM). My GF has been a little skeptical about me being able to do this finishing, and was impressed with how things looked before the fine sanding step yesterday- but now she says she's amazed because the finish quality is like fine furniture. That's the endorsement I was looking for...

[JonMarsh]

Second that. I've been trying a few different piano black finishes on speakers and after frustratingly mediocre results from using a sanding block, I broke down and bought the PC sander - best decision I've made since adding a router to my tools. A day's worth of hand sanding can be done in an hour or so.

Or a few hours of sanding can be done in 10-15 minutes. And the quality of the result is very good. I wouldn't attempt a piano style finish without the PC orbital sander (or similar) and Mirka sanding disks and Mirka Abralon pads. They're tops! :T

[knowledgebass]

I'll have to look for a source of those pads. I had been doing all my sanding with wood block like a sucker haha. Was 500 enough to take off any little runs? I left all of my sand paper in Winnipeg so I'll need to grab some more.

Wood Essence and Lee Valley (to a lesser extent) seem to be the Canadian suppliers for Mirka. I've never ordered from Wood Essence but I was looking for a source of shellac chips and came across them. Mentioned to a friend and he'd actually ordered from them in the past. I've been following the finishing steps on this thread closely and was considering what it would take to get into power sanding following John's discussions on the Abranet. There's also a Abranet block you can buy that can be hooked up to dust collection/shop vac. I'd probably wear a respirator anyway but I thought that would be a good setup for hand sanding.

I'm using a sanding block here as well. More time than money I guess! I'm actually finding a cabinet scraper is quite effective at knocking uneven epoxy down in a hurry and then only very minor sanding is required. Although, so far I've done one of like the 10 surfaces I need to pay attention to so don't hold me to that. I used epoxy as a pore filler on my veneer and to stabilize a translam baffle (hopefully). I used a fine cabinet scraper on poly once and it worked for knocking down raised grain, small bubbles, stuck bristles, etc. It only required a single pass for that and it was on a really small piece (spice rack). If you have any problem runs a scraper might work OK to bring it down most of the way, and you'd want to finish it off with sanding anyway to bring the gloss back to the same level. I've never tried a scraper for flattening a run on a finish that hard. Epoxy is quite a bit softer relative to polyurethane.

[JonMarsh]

Interesting comments, and I expect useful for many- I'll probably copy your post to the woodworking resource thread.

I always use the PC orbital sander or any block sander with the DeWalt 10 gallon dust extractor vac I have- that's the D27905H- it's actually made in Italy, has Hepa filtering in the deluxe version, and is worth every penny for how it makes the job faster and safer.



With my current day job setup, time is what I have so very little of- none during the week, with a 5AM to 8:30PM typical door to door since I've been working at a customer site 5-6 days a week full time since September. Was supposed to be off this by the end of April, and now it's looking to run until October or November- to say I'm not happy is a gross understatement!

The orbital sander and some 100 grit Mirka pads made short work (less than 15 minutes) of the clean up sanding from my rough and tumble fit and glue job on the bases... this kind of productivity is a lifesaver/enabler for me, as by hand this might take an hour or more.



I can't say enough good things about this combo- the DeWalt D27905H, the PC 390 sander, and Mirka disks and pads.

[kevinm]

Do you wet sand with the PC? I first used my DeWalt sander, but panicked a little when I saw the paint build up inside of it. So I ordered up a variable PC sander polisher and Pneumatic velcro backing pad and the Mirka discs and pads. After I saw your recommendation, I picked up a few sets and can't believe the quality. I definitely recommend them too.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002654I46/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CH3Z8W/ref=oh_details_o03_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[JonMarsh]

I've been doing wet sanding with the PC random orbital sander too- but have been thinking about something like the PC you linked to- thanks- I added them to my Amazon Wish List! When I do wet sanding, it's not very wet, just spray the surface lightly, and go over it gently - this has worked real well. I don't consider myself a skilled woodworker, so frankly, any advantage I can get by spending on better tools, I do it- for me it pays off quickly in time and results.

Some more parts for the bases cut, and one side glued with the Ace Hardware Marine Epoxy. I've actually gotten more done today than I expected, but still have some more automotive chores. Still, it's been a productive weekend... not what I'd call a holiday, though! :W

[Johnloudb]

Some more parts for the bases cut, and one side glued with the Ace Hardware Marine Epoxy. I've actually gotten more done today than I expected, but still have some more automotive chores. Still, it's been a productive weekend... not what I'd call a holiday, though! :W

Glad to see you making good progress with you Ardent. Beautiful work and best I can tell you're an excellent wood worker! Don't sell yourself short!

I may have missed something but how are you attaching the bases to the cabinets? With the crossovers inside I'm guessing you're making them removable?

[JonMarsh]

Hi John,

The cabinets have a large attachment area for the base.




Note the holes in the phenolic plate used for the crossover plate in the base assembly- these will have flat head socket head furniture bolts to mount the base to inserts installed in the base of the cabinet. A custom laser cut foam gasket is used to assure a good air seal.



The base plates have rebates for the furniture screw cap heads. Note the plate on the right; the larger rebate is cut first with a Forstner bit, then the through hole for the bolt is installed. This phenolic sheet is VERY strong; Wilson audio builds speaker cabinets which are very rigid from phenolic sheet. Main drawback to the material is weight and cost. Structurally, it's excellent, which is why I used it for the crossover base plates.

[Johnloudb]

Thanks for the explanation Jon. Wow, very well thought out there and with laser cut foam gaskets no less! Cool! I need some foam gaskets for my car speakers, between the front of speaker and door panel, rear deck too ... Totally different application, and foam type, nothing fancy. I did the job kind of fast and easy, ignoring my better judgement or any kind of helpful modifications. Paid a price for that, sonically. So got to go back and make some car fixes to get the best out of the speakers.

[dar47]

Looks like you had a busy but productive weekend, everything looking excellent. :T

Awhile ago you said you wished you could mull over and enjoy process a bit more, hope that's happening for you. I spent last week researching a new lawn tractor as 2.5 acres out of the 5 is now in grass and is now to much to push when your over 50. It sure was frustrating and not fun as they have as many different model names and options as mattress companies. I did get my room layout figured out thugh. It's going to be tight but should work.

Old setup showing the front wall, these speaks are gone and the sub soon to be gone.

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This is the new front wall setup with a new component stand and the planned IB location. I'm going to move most of the gear to the back room to clean the front stage a little leaving just the essentials.

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IB manifold will have 2 Stereo Integrity 18's. I don't have the room to place the port between the towers so it will have to stay to the right. The old sub has the best response in that corner and EQ'ed fairly well so here hoping the port is well placed.

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[JonMarsh]

Well, you're doing some serious mulling over and planning there! :T The room looks nice now, and looks like it will only improve with the new layout.

Actually, I haven't really felt yet like things have slowed down enough- though last weekend, I got to a point where I realized I wanted to take a little more time with the bases and not rush them- so I'm not as far along as I'd have originally preferred. And I didn't get to the rubout- much of Monday was spend doing other chores and errands, and getting things picked up for the cleaning ladies coming over yesterday.

And when I mull things over, sometimes I lay the basis for trouble... for a while yesterday, I'd almost talked myself into sanding down the Isiris and doing a lacquer finish on them when I do all the other rework! Whoo boy, glad I dogged that bullet! (except, if I'm honest, I realize, I'm still on the fence- the wipe on poly finish looks pretty good, seems more than adequate protection, but when I look at the lacquer finish on the Ardents, I keep wondering what that would look like on the big guys- that's what the spray gear was bought for, but I was in a time pinch when building them and went with the wipe on poly. Hmmm, Polly want some lacquer? I think Jon does...

So I think I'm still going to give that some thought... just don't know when I'll find the time! (4th of July weekend? )


One scenario is after getting the Ardents finished and installed temporarily in the family room, do the final crossover evaluations on the Isiris with the Gen3 midrange and evaluate the test article tweaks to that version, along with a new tweeter crossover parts will arrive this week. (more MR Clarity caps). Then do the physical tear down, gille panels, and sand and strip the upper and lower modules, and do the lacquer work over the July 4th weekend (sanding sealer, sand after a day to harden, then 8 coats or more over a two day period). Then let them sit up a month. Then buff out. It's tempting, even though I figure I must be nuts to even consider the effort!


Got a question for you- what do you mean by "IB Port"? infinite baffle is infinite baffle- no port normally involved. Just lots of driver Sd operating close to free air Fs. If there's a port, there must be a rather defined rear volume with which the port is tuned to align a bass reflex setup. I understand people using ports with smaller drivers to get more output, or even in an HT setup tuned to 18 Hz or so where transient definition on LFE is not a priority, just shear output- but ported systems always have hangover and ringing on the step response- if you're going for the old ultra fidelity, go true IB. If you need a touch more output, use a little EQ. That can even be done with a passive inline RC box, if you've got enough drive level and gain elsewhere.

[JonMarsh]

To highlight the difference sealed/IB versus ported, note these step response calculations for two versions of the Isiris, MJB's ported version, and my sealed version. His are larger, and will play louder in the low bass, but have some compromise in transient definition as a result.

Ported:




Sealed:




'Nuff said.

[kevinm]

I think he means the infinite baffle sub will be outside the room and the port to the "box" will lead into the room.

Here is an underfloor IB sub with it's in-room port.



Dar, what configuration are you planning on using? Are you going to run them on two different sides to reduce vibrations?

[JonMarsh]

OK, Alles klar, that makes sense, if he's using an IB manifold. Hadn't had my coffee, yet, you know! :W

I DEFINITELY recommend a push-push configuration for rocking couple damping on any IB manifold construction. Frankly, I'd rather do the subs for girlfriend that way, but it would be a whole build from scratch project, unless I just glue the assembled knock down cabinets back to back! Problem is, we couldn't locate that kind of size unit properly!

[dar47]

Yes IB, thanks for filling in Kevinm.:T Dam it! Work is now blocking my posts, may have to resort to the phone.

Sorry Jon, by the Port I meant manifold front opening.

These 18's are going to be horizontally or side mounted in the manifold with the cones facing each other and the magnets in a storage room behind the front wall. The storage room should give me just over 10x VAS. Thought of 4-18's in 2 manifolds but not enough front wall and I would be busting the 4x VAS rule. I registered over at the Cult and I'll have to start a build thread and take advantage of your old buddy Thomas and the gangs thorough knowledge when I get going.

The down firing sub in the pic is sold and is going to pay for a new Behringer NU3000DSP to drive the 18's. I'm hoping the DSP with multiple stored EQ will give me separate EQ's for Movies, TV and 2 channel. I feel like I'm starting from scratch, lots to learn and it should be almost as exciting getting this going as finishing the Ardent.:B

[kevinm]

I'm going to be living vicariously through your IB build....some day for me...some day.

Keep us updated!

[dar47]

Will do, that's the one smart thing I did when I built the house 9 years ago putting that storage space behind the listening area. Only had to wait that long for my wife to clear out enough stuff to make it happen though, ha ha.

[JonMarsh]

Will do, that's the one smart thing I did when I built the house 9 years ago putting that storage space behind the listening area. Only had to wait that long for my wife to clear out enough stuff to make it happen though, ha ha.

You know what we say around here... slow work takes time!

[JonMarsh]

Yes IB, thanks for filling in Kevinm.:T Dam it! Work is now blocking my posts, may have to resort to the phone.

Sorry Jon, by the Port I meant manifold front opening.

These 18's are going to be horizontally or side mounted in the manifold with the cones facing each other and the magnets in a storage room behind the front wall. The storage room should give me just over 10x VAS. Thought of 4-18's in 2 manifolds but not enough front wall and I would be busting the 4x VAS rule. I registered over at the Cult and I'll have to start a build thread and take advantage of your old buddy Thomas and the gangs thorough knowledge when I get going.

The down firing sub in the pic is sold and is going to pay for a new Behringer NU3000DSP to drive the 18's. I'm hoping the DSP with multiple stored EQ will give me separate EQ's for Movies, TV and 2 channel. I feel like I'm starting from scratch, lots to learn and it should be almost as exciting getting this going as finishing the Ardent.:B

You should have lots of fun playing with that setup and tuning it up!

[Hank]

Loctite Marine Epoxy

Gorilla Duct tape

hmmm...there must be another brand alternative:W
Jon, your project is really looking good. Your meticulous approach to getting the finish you want is time-consuming, but will result in speakers you and GF will be proud of.

[JonMarsh]

It's been more than a bit OCD, Hank... thanks for the kind words. You know, the hardware stores and other places I shop only have 3M spray adhesives, which I do use from time to time. If you can suggest a good retail source for other 3M adhesives, I'm all ears...

And now when I need to take apart the Isiris for the final rework, I still may bite the bullet and do a full refinish on them.... GF likes how they look now (a bit more rustic compared with the Ardents), but I'm getting this itchy feeling to see how they'd be in lacquer. Maybe if I practice enough I'll start to get adept at it...

well, the practice couldn't do me harm, as I plan to do some other finishing work around here, including some furniture.

[JonMarsh]

Was just over at the Wavecor site, and I noticed that they've added two new versions of the SW223BD01, the 02 and 03, 4 and 8 ohm with a redesigned suspension. OTOH, looking at the frequency response, I'd say they have a different cone, too. Still list the original version. My guess is some effort to further linearize the long throw Xmax mechanically; for our application, this is likely not so critical.

Well, I've been busy, but have a lot more to do this weekend. One cabinet is rubbed out; both cabinets have inserts installed in the bases, and one cab has the binding posts installed and part of the LF wiring harness is fabricated, but I need a parts run to Ace Hardware for screws and Minwax, and also need to change the oil in the Element! The bases are ready for final sanding and painting, too.

'Twill be a busy day! Lets see how far I can get by this evening...

[5th element]

Hmm it seems like the 01 version is more suited to your application. It has higher sensitivity, lower Le, lower moving mass, slightly lower xmax, lower Qts. The newer versions take a substantial knock to their sensitivity, 83dB vs 85dB for the 4 ohm units. 81dB net sensitivity on the 8 ohm version, that's just about the lowest sensitivity figure I've seen for a sub.

[JonMarsh]

Hmm it seems like the 01 version is more suited to your application. It has higher sensitivity, lower Le, lower moving mass, slightly lower xmax, lower Qts. The newer versions take a substantial knock to their sensitivity, 83dB vs 85dB for the 4 ohm units. 81dB net sensitivity on the 8 ohm version, that's just about the lowest sensitivity figure I've seen for a sub.

Thanks for the summary- I fixated on the quote line of redesigned suspension, checked out the FR quickly, and moved on from their- clearly the -01 is better for what we're doing. I've seen other 8" "subs" with very slow net sensitivity, too- seems to come with what you have to do to the cone mass to get low Fs, and having a limited BL product with a practical motor size...

Still have my fingers crossed, optimistic about how these will work out in this application; again, it's a driver type not easy to find, that kind of straddles the boundary between a conventional woofer and a full on sub- just like the Aurasound NS1 used in the Isiris!

[JonMarsh]

Sunday was another one of those days where various other things kept coming up that needed attention besides what I wanted to work on! But the binding posts were installed in the second cabinet, the base threaded inserts installed in second cabinet, bases were painted, LF wiring harness worked on, more mounting screws bought for drivers, etc. In other words, a lot of the little stuff you don't really think about that can take quite a bit of time if you're a bit OCD about how you want to put it together. Oh, and also found Minwax paste wax at the Ace Hardware, though in household goods, not in the finishing supplies where most stores put it.

Seems like I get 50% closer to being done every weekend... at this rate, that could still take a long time!

[cjd]

Remember close enough... 50% every time never gets you there.

That veneer sure is sharp. In wish these were local so I could give them a listen!

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, the internet makes it possible to feel like it's a small neighborhood for people spread all over the world, until you want to go hear another guy's speaker build, or you read about a DIY meet in Indiana and realize it's three time zones away! not an impulse travel to attend! Whereas Colorado from CA still feels more or less like that... except that though GF and I have been talking about going there for a couple of years on a weekend (she worked with IBM and Storage Tek in Boulder, where I used to live) it hasn't happened yet!

Realistically, I think I'm two weekends away from playing in stereo and full testing- but have some other necessary things like routine Dr appointment already schedule on the 14 (can't take time off from work with my weird working setup to get to Dr during their hours during the week). I could push just one ready to test next weekend, perhaps... but I'd really like to have a pair running!

[benthe8track]

Sounds like you got a lot done to me! It's the little details that are so worthwhile on a project like this.

[dar47]

I concur, you know us builders not DESIGNERS get to sit back and assemble published builds and no body is standing behind us with a stop watch.:W If want to get fast we can leave them unfinished for years no one cares and if want to get everything setup to just finish we still get to just listen when there done and usually don't even think of tweaks. So Jon just OCD till your hearts content. 8)

[JonMarsh]

Cool, guys, appreciate the feedback- of course I'm documenting as I go along, and mainly to suggest this is ONE way of doing things, and being DIY guys, you'll likely come up with some OTHER way to Do It Yourself- but with all the work and history behind these puppies, including that other set of cabinets in storage, I'd really like to do good by these. :B

I've got some more parts on the way, with my GF's hardwood floors we can't use typical points, so I'm going with the feet used in the Dayton sub cabinets, which are sold separately.



I'm just going to try using a three point system as I would the points- the Isiris actually use these, too, but with four- two in front, two in the rear. This comes as a complete set of 4 with Parts Express part number 240-712, for $8.98. Hard to quibble with that, as it includes the threaded inserts. These are very hard rubber, and seem to work well in their sub cabinets.

[Hank]

If you can suggest a good retail source for other 3M adhesives, I'm all ears...

We've got 17 pages of adhesives (2 pages of 2-part epoxies - want to bond skyscraper or airplane panels?). I'll send you a PM - don't want to appear too much the 3M shill here :W

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for the links and updates, Hank. Now, as to appearing like a 3M shill, well, good stuff is good stuf- and well, you know, at a certain age we have to confront the reality that we are what we are.... :B No problem owning up to it! I think you and I are both at or past that age... :W

[JonMarsh]

Temporary change of priorities to Isiris

I concur, you know us builders not DESIGNERS get to sit back and assemble published builds and no body is standing behind us with a stop watch.:W If want to get fast we can leave them unfinished for years no one cares and if want to get everything setup to just finish we still get to just listen when there done and usually don't even think of tweaks. So Jon just OCD till your hearts content. 8)

Sounds like you're in a patient mood at the moment- I hope that means I can change the plans for next weekend!

My partner in crime in Munich for all this music and speaker and DAC nonsense is going to be coming to town, and looks like I'll be picking him up from the SFO airport next Wednesday- so what I'm likely to need to do is a full court press on the crossover updates for the Isiris (as he wants to hear that) and finish getting the Rubidium oscillator sorted out for the DCD8. He has an SOtM music server, but is pondering the NAD M50 like I have (not sure why exactly...)

This means a U turn on priorities until next Wednesday, then back to the Ardents. Not really convenient, actually, as I have them on tables in process in the back of the family room!

The cool/fun thing is that all I have to do is mention I'm picking him up from the airport in the morning and we're getting together for meetings for the afternoon, and the decks are cleared at work with local management (he's a member of the management board reporting in to our CEO in Germany).

[dar47]

It's all good, finishing the big boys would be great. :T I just wish I could join you guys for that high power meeting.:W

Looks like Ben is in deep thought with the Ncore layout design and I'm now contemplating how the heck I'm going to put a couple more conductors into the basement from my panel in the garage now that I have the new front wall layout done. I can also start any time now on the IB manifold and 2 component stands that are needed, so lots to do.

[JonMarsh]

I just wish I could join you guys for that high power meeting.:W

Yeah, me too! I keep thinking what a blast it would be to have a listening confab with great tunes, food, and friends like you guys! I've met with some of the other members during biz travel to some spots, but it's a rare things- my friend in Munich I usually see 2 or 3 times a year- we've known each other for almost 25 years.

[dar47]

Well Jon, I firm up my sources for the Ardents. I originally thought I would add a Oppo 105 to handle movies and music but with the new version creeping up to $1400. I thought the 103 can be had for $500 and would be fine for movies so why not get a stand alone DAC. So after considering the Emo Stealth DC-1, Schiit Gungnir and borrowing a few older ones from friends, I did some auditioning around town. I listened too some nice Naim, Bryston, Exposure, Moon and some very rich for my blood Chords and the very nice PS Audio MK2. And you you were right again NAD M51 with the deal I got only adds $600 to the dac and Oppo 103 combo.

The M51 is smooth, detailed with a good base grip, very little between it and the PS Audio MK2 at twice the price. This was a good compare same place.



I'm all smiles, thanks for the hint and you know with all this talk of your Modulas MK2's, they just resolve better with better sources. I don't think you need a design change on them I think your partner would love them for your movie set up. :W I got a 1 day software conference in Calgary so I get to check Ben's new digs out but I don't think I should haul the NAD there as i think we have already corrupted him enough. :B

[JonMarsh]

The M51 is smooth, detailed with a good base grip, very little between it and the PS Audio MK2 at twice the price. This was a good compare same place.



I'm all smiles, thanks for the hint and you know with all this talk of your Modulas MK2's, they just resolve better with better sources. I don't think you need a design change on them I think your partner would love them for your movie set up. :W I got a 1 day software conference in Calgary so I get to check Ben's new digs out but I don't think I should haul the NAD there as i think we have already corrupted him enough. :B

Well, you know, I think that may entirely depend on how you think his new wife would react to another corrupting audio influence- otherwise, I'm of the opinion that knowledge is power, (so giving him more first hand knowledge is a good thing,), and of course, the prime law of audio gear is that if some's good, more is better, and too much is just enough!

I did an inventory check and I have 4 Jantzen waveguides on hand, so that would work just fine for updating her mains and surrounds. I think the only thing I'd do is to re-design the crossover specifically for the locations she has them, which are the upper right and upper left corners of the family room for the fronts, and the back corners for the rears. I could even do cabinets with a front panel bevel to optimize radiation pattern for the location; would take out most of the baffle step and flatten the response. Just measure them in place where they'll go... this could be fun, and it would give me an excuse for some more speaker work!

[bigjohn]

Well Jon, I firm up my sources for the Ardents. I originally thought I would add a Oppo 105 to handle movies and music but with the new version creeping up to $1400. I thought the 103 can be had for $500 and would be fine for movies so why not get a stand alone DAC. So after considering the Emo Stealth DC-1, Schiit Gungnir and borrowing a few older ones from friends, I did some auditioning around town. I listened too some nice Naim, Bryston, Exposure, Moon and some very rich for my blood Chords and the very nice PS Audio MK2. And you you were right again NAD M51 with the deal I got only adds $600 to the dac and Oppo 103 combo.
:B

Were you able to demo the Stealth DC-1? If so I am curious on how it stacked up against the others. When I was looking for a new DAC i considered the M51, but couldn't justify the price difference over the DC-1.

[dar47]

No, was going to order and send back if I didn't like. Have heard cd 1 & 2 as well as XDA-2 and all are their similar house sound. What makes the DC-1 interesting is it started out as $700 and now can be had for $500 and a lot of reviews put it above the Gungnir not just their forum guys. I was looking for something to best the Oppo 105 significantly and I'm trying to take advantage of the new Ardents when complete. It offers a lot for the money, acts as a preamp, good headphone amp so I think it does reach above it's price point. My read is when you get to the $2000 price point and you can take it with a grain of salt (your room your ears) is things start to separate significantly and of course you need the associated gear and speaks to go along with. I don't think you can go wrong trying it you have 30 days to send it back if you don't like. No I would not expect it to complete with the M51.

[bigjohn]

I had the XDA-1, sold it, then went looking and couldn't justify the 1500-2000 for a wyred4sound, or a M51 with out at least trying the DC-1, when I got it and it was a night and day difference I decided to keep it, the DC-1 also compares very well to my Oppo 95, if not beat it (at least to my ears). With all the time effort going into your Ardents I understand giving feeding them the best possible, and I'm looking forward to seeing them completed, the work and level of craftsmanship y'all have done so far is amazing.

On a different side note, what lawn tractor did you go with, I have about 5 acres of lawn and find my 46'' husqvarna does a very good job with about 90% of it, just wish I had gotten the one with the beefier spindles (I've broken 2 so far this season), and a wider deck (takes me about 4-6 hours to complete the whole thing).