Speedy SPEEDSTER

[joeybutts]

Paul Carmody's Speedster design has been an intriguing speaker to me for some time now and I stumbled across two great deals on the two drivers that are in them, so I finally get to start the build!

At Christmas time I had received a bunch of items from Rockler and took it all back to get different items which included two nice species of wood. One of the species will be for a pair of Overnight Sensation eventually and the other is for this build. These speakers will be a black cabinet with a hardwood baffle. I feel this will be quite striking when completed.

The Speedster's will end up in the living room of our home and may or may not be paired with a sub. Supposedly these do a fantastic job all alone and I am eager to hear them in all their glory. Be sure to check out the woofer utilized in this little speaker.

I titled this build thread the Speedy Speedster because so far I have spent a total of an hour actually working on them and the cabinet is already done and built (for the most part). This is definitely a record for me.

The cabinet is very small and the actual design calls for a 1/2" stock cabinet. I am making the baffle and large sides 3/4" stock to increase rigidity a touch and have considered putting in a shelf brace. Can't help myself!!!!! Might leave well enough alone.

PICS!

One cabinet glue all dried, still need to put in the pieces for bolting on the baffle (and maybe the brace!) -





Other cabinet being glued up. That's right. Five panels glued up at once. If I didn't decide to bolt on the baffle it would have been the entire cabinet! (Khan's watching closely in the background)-







Can you guess that species of wood? It's actually a bit more reddish-orange than the picture shows.



**But Joey, don't you have 32 other builds going on right now?
Yes, I know, I can't help myself. But, in buying a home soon, and the Khan's Dayton RS Center and MarkK's going in the man room and the wife wanting something much smaller in the living room, these I felt would be fantastic for the job. Plus, I thought I could build these quick enough that all my speakers would be in the finish stage anyway.

[kiteflyer]

Awesome progress!

Where did you find the drivers? I'm in the market for a "deal" on Speedster parts as well!

[oneplustwo]

African Mahogany? Looks similar to my SR-71's before they changed colors after time.

[Juhazi]

Hi

You seem to have a systematic process of building! Good facilities and tools ready to go is a must. I hope your new house has a good workshop.

I'm a spontaneous builder without a workshop. It's not so rewarding to work outside without a stable desk and it always takes 15min to collect and hook up the tools. Easy with the dust anyway! I'm sure You'll like your MarkK's!

Now it looks like this outside here - good time to listen to records!

Juhazi

[joeybutts]

Awesome progress!

Where did you find the drivers? I'm in the market for a "deal" on Speedster parts as well!

Thanks KF!!
I got lucky in the for sale sections of diyma and PE. I pretty much stole the NeoCDs and got a nice discount on the W4s.

Not African Mahogany 1+2! But you are the second person to guess that so I am thinking it is similar.

I worked on patios, balconies, common yards for 4 years Juhazi. Not fun but it worked and got the job done. Worst part is as you state, taking 20 minutes to get everything setup and ready to go and cleaning up after.

And thanks for the vote of confidence on the MarkK's!

[---k---]

Jotoba

[Finleyville]

Nice build and keep up the pics.

I KNOW the wood species is Padauk. It is a beautiful wood but dulls blades fast and produces TONS of fine red dust. Please wear a face mask or use dust collection when you work with it. It usually takes me 3 days to clear the garage of all the red dust left around after I work with the stuff.

[joeybutts]

Yes Michael! Padauk! And thanks for the heads up. Good thing I will only be working with these two little pieces.

[---k---]

Dang it. I have some of that at home for a project I never finished. I knew it looked exactly like what I had, but I couldn't think of the name. All I could think of was Jotoba which I also have at home for a different project that failed.

So what didn't I win?

[joeybutts]

Dang it. I have some of that at home for a project I never finished. I knew it looked exactly like what I had, but I couldn't think of the name. All I could think of was Jotoba which I also have at home for a different project that failed.

So what didn't I win?

My warm, well wishes on your next project? :

I do love the name of that wood though. Jotoba.....sounds like it is from an episode of Star Wars....

[NPF]

Yes, Padauk - it will make a terrific mess out of your shop. If you re-saw it the dust is amazing to look at. It is almost a florescent bright red due to how it reflects the light. Everything will turn bright red. I was still cleaning it up several years later...I was re-sawing 5/4 in half to get two planks 1/2 thick for sidewalls on these speakers - see picture. Do note that Padauk will darken overtime. I have had these speakers up for now 7 years and they are perfect right now. But I try my best to keep them out of direct light. You will start to loose the contrast in the grain if you leave them in direct light. So be forewarned. The wood finishes beautifully. It took a couple of years before I liked the color - starts off a bit redder and lighter for my taste but after two years = perfect. Here is a picture of Padauk finished for reference (they are quite a bit darker now - I could pop another picture if you want to see how they darken up over time)... I think you are going to like how yours finish up!

[joeybutts]

NPF - Those are gorgeous!!! What were the products/process for your finish?

[joeybutts]

Quick not, both cabinets flushed and sanded. Hoping tomorrow to get the backs all cutout.

[NPF]

Well, everyone has there own preferences when it come to finishes and I suppose I'm no exception. I like to use True Oil - polymerized oil (there are other brands out there as well). I buy it by the gallon and the price isn't quite so bad. It rubs on very easy and produces a very hard finish that is very durable. You can go back and touch it up anytime as well. I like the sheen and the depth that it gives the wood.
The grain in the Padauk is open and must be filled. I ended up putting about ~40 coats on. Sand with 0000 steel wool in between each coat or every 2 coat. After 8 ~ 10 coats wet sand (I used naptha) with 400 grit or 600 grit depending how far in the process you are to level the finish. I think if I were to do it again I would try and find a filler that is clear to fill the pores and speed the process up a bit. The pores in the wood should be filled one way or another to get a good finish. What I did worked quite well, just took a bit of time to do that is all.

One more thing you must do - you have to wipe the wood down with acetone right before you put your first coat of finish down. The wood is very oily and you must get this off. If you use a shellac or lacquer it is not so much a problem. Do not use a polyurethane finish unless you like a nice tacky finish that never cures up... Varnish may have the same problem... You had best try a sample first if you try any of these.

One thing I have not tried (not on Padauk but did on Bolivian Rosewood which is similar - worked quite well) but think would work is to first put a layer or two of shellac down first and then switch over to your desired finish. The shellac will have no problem curing up and will give a good base layer for other finishes to bond to.

Enjoy!
Nate

[joeybutts]

Well, everyone has there own preferences when it come to finishes and I suppose I'm no exception. I like to use True Oil - polymerized oil (there are other brands out there as well). I buy it by the gallon and the price isn't quite so bad. It rubs on very easy and produces a very hard finish that is very durable. You can go back and touch it up anytime as well. I like the sheen and the depth that it gives the wood.
The grain in the Padauk is open and must be filled. I ended up putting about ~40 coats on. Sand with 0000 steel wool in between each coat or every 2 coat. After 8 ~ 10 coats wet sand (I used naptha) with 400 grit or 600 grit depending how far in the process you are to level the finish. I think if I were to do it again I would try and find a filler that is clear to fill the pores and speed the process up a bit. The pores in the wood should be filled one way or another to get a good finish. What I did worked quite well, just took a bit of time to do that is all.

One more thing you must do - you have to wipe the wood down with acetone right before you put your first coat of finish down. The wood is very oily and you must get this off. If you use a shellac or lacquer it is not so much a problem. Do not use a polyurethane finish unless you like a nice tacky finish that never cures up... Varnish may have the same problem... You had best try a sample first if you try any of these.

One thing I have not tried (not on Padauk but did on Bolivian Rosewood which is similar - worked quite well) but think would work is to first put a layer or two of shellac down first and then switch over to your desired finish. The shellac will have no problem curing up and will give a good base layer for other finishes to bond to.

Enjoy!
Nate

Thanks Nate! One thing confused me. You say to use Tru-oil, then wipe with acetone, then clear?

[NPF]

"Thanks Nate! One thing confused me. You say to use Tru-oil, then wipe with acetone, then clear?"

No, no, no....
No matter what you decide for finish you must wipe the wood down first with acetone. You need to do this right before you put the very first coat of finish on. You only need to do this for the first coat of finish. The reason is because of the natural oils in the wood which can cause the finish not to cure and also give poor bonding characteristics between the wood and the finish. You need to remove these oils from the surface. Some finishes like the polyurethanes (I think varnish as well...) will not cure even when doing this. The oils come up to the surface and will leave your finish tacky and you will wonder why your finish is no good. Once the first coat of finish is on then the surface is sealed up, thus no reason to wipe with the acetone after this.

[joeybutts]

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification. I'll definitely follow your guide.

The 13Av.2 was my first experience with an underhung driver, so neat to see a size comparison in my mind between it and the 1720. I find the visual similarities interesting!







Planning on getting these cab's closed to built by the coming weekend, finish not included.

[NPF]

So here is one more picture of Padauk after 7 years... it has darkened quite a bit in comparison to the other picture. I think the colors in both pictures are fairly accurate, but the lighting is different and it is hard to get good pictures indoors...



BTW i saw your Khanspire's and they are looking great! I like what you did with the corners = out of the norm = different!

[joeybutts]

Thanks so much!! I was hoping for a slightly different look but keeping the roundover on as the designer intended. There was some minor debate on whether this would effect sound, but I can't tell.....ignorance is bliss I guess.

Hmmm a bit disappointing it loses that orange tone, but it still looks fabulous. I'll be happy with them!

A little progress. port almost done.

port plate, port epoxied to 1/8" recess in plate. This will give me a nice large flare on the end of the port ....





hole in cabinet



glueing in plate.

[joeybutts]

Port rounded over.....nice fat flare.....







Brace. Is it a fox skull?



MDF knuckles?



Flipping someone the bird?



No...I already told you. A BRACE!







Putting in the......what are these called?!?!! I think I saw someone use the term batten......The pieces that will bolt down the baffle.





Tomorrow I will get the baffle all worked out hopefully.

[Sylvan]

You're a funny guy, I like watching your build threads.

How did you get such a big round-over on those ports? Router bit? By hand?

[Coconutout]

i love the fact that the woofer doesn't use any resistors.

want.... *drool

[john trials]

I'm curious about the port flare, too. What is the radius on yours? I'm about the make some speakers with a PVC port. Your flare looks great. I'll have to make mine by chamfering as much as I can, then sanding (I only have a small, borrowed router with 1/4" collet).

[joeybutts]

You're a funny guy, I like watching your build threads.

How did you get such a big round-over on those ports? Router bit? By hand?

Thanks Sylvan! Try to keep it amusing.

I essentially made the cabinet wall about 7/8" thick, then use a 3/4" roundover bit and put it down so that it beads jusssssssst a little (less than an 1/8") and then sand that down with 60, 120, 220.

So both. :T

i love the fact that the woofer doesn't use any resistors.

want.... *drool

Sorry coconut, not understanding. Are you talking about the crossover design?

I'm curious about the port flare, too. What is the radius on yours? I'm about the make some speakers with a PVC port. Your flare looks great. I'll have to make mine by chamfering as much as I can, then sanding (I only have a small, borrowed router with 1/4" collet).

See above John! My router does accept both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. This is the roundover bit I used following what I stated above...

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/katana_bits2.htm

Wish I would have thought to take pics in steps to show.... I love the flare.

EDIT: IN THE SECOND PIC, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CABINET TO THE RIGHT, THE BOTTOM LEFT SIDE OF THE PORT, YOU CAN JUST SEE A LITTLE OF THE BEADING I DIDN'T GET SANDED DOWN. ops: :

[Coconutout]

yes joey. no resistors in the crossover to the woofer.

[AdelaaR]

I'm a bit frightened by your brace, but I like your DIY flare

[joeybutts]

Coconut- why is that a good thing? unaltered sound?

Adelaar - don't be skerred. Thanks!!

Got the baffles all done today, unless I decide to roundover the vertical edges. What do you say? Yay or nay? I know there is freq response benefit to rounding over but I think I REALLY like the square look on these.....

Also, I LOVE the color of the Padouk after sanding, like....I had eye-sex with it. The pics do it no justice. Sanded these down to 220, plan on picking up finer grit to go over them a bit more, but this has to be the most gorgeous specimen I have seen in person. Absolutely love it and am thinking I want it in my man cave for accent throughout.

My impatience got the best of me today and I made some small errors on the recess for the tweeter, but other than that.....I can't wait to get to the finish.

Hanger bolts installed. These work absolutely perfect. Love it.









Baffle trimmed up to enclosures



Making sure recess/cutouts fit properly







Opening up woofer back



Sanded to 220 with drivers....OMG I love it.

[oneplustwo]

Looks like you had some tearout near the bottom that you were able to sand away? Looks great. What's your plan on finihsing?

[AdelaaR]

There should be a PG17 parental filter on this thread.

[zephyrtear]

These are looking very nice!! Congratulations! They have been in my next to do list for a while!!

[joeybutts]

Woah! Don't know how I missed these messages! Oh wait. I bought a house.

OPT- Yeah a little bit of tearout, but it mostly sanded out, and figured the last little bit will fill out with clear coat. Traditional finish - gloss black cab, high gloss clear on Padouk.

Adelaar - hahahaha. Thanks!! I think so as well. My wife shoots them a jealous look when she walks by.

Zeph - Thanks! I am hoping to finally give them a listen tonight.

OMG SPEAKER WORK!??!?!?!?!?!

This house has been the death of my speaker building hobby.

Crossovers soldered up.





I also cut the terminal hole yesterday and recessed it. Tonight I am putting in the 703 and wiring them up to my UPA-2 for testing. HOORAY. FINALLY.

[joeybutts]

Real quick review since I need to get to bed......

WOAH.

[oneplustwo]

You need to stop building stuff. You're a bad influence.

[joeybutts]

Dude. DUDE. The ribbon is nice. I like what it does on the top end and has this air to it that is very revealing. Everyone uses the term "sparkle" in regards to ribbons, and that is exactly what it does. It has this tone....it's gorgeous.

That little woofer....wow. I love how these are voiced, to me it seems like there is a bit of a bump in the lower registers, but in a nice smooth way that is still carrying a lot of energy and force. They are gorgeous speakers. TONS of clarity without being thin.

Not SPL monsters by any means as the woofer runs out of steam pretty quick. Scary part is how low the distortion is and how you want to just keep turning them up. I almost got too far on them on the XPA-3 until I thought to myself, I wonder where excursion is....OH MY GOD!! haahah. They are distortion free right to where they can't give any more.

I only listened for a little bit but I don't think fatigue would ever set in.

Sensitivity is crazy low. Obviously, it is only a 4" woofer, but it seemed as if the Speedster's were really enjoying being on the XPA-3.

From the moment I turned on the first song....I was like WOAH. WOAHHHHH. WOWWWWWWWWWW. OHHHHHHHH YEAHHHHHHHHHH. I love my Khan's, but these are straight BUTTER. The perfect near field, easy listening, kicking back, intent listening speakers. They covered a lot of genres of listening type, only two not being included are rocking out party style, and probably HT unless you don't like it to be like the theater.

These may be my favorite speaker to date in terms of SQ. REAL ear turner.

[joeybutts]

You need to stop building stuff. You're a bad influence.

ahhahahah. I know. I'm trying to keep myself fro mstarting new ones until I wrap up all my other projects that are already started.

[yzracer14]

LOL, they look so tiny sitting on the Khan's shoulders...

[joeybutts]

Up and at 'em! These are fantastic for subless systems, on top of being amazing stereo speakers straight up.

I wish I could have mounted them a little lower, but I think you guys can figure out why I couldn't.

[WilZirkle]

Joey! are those finished speakers in your house?! I really need to get off my butt and cut some MDF.

They look great.

Wil

[joeybutts]

Joey! are those finished speakers in your house?! I really need to get off my butt and cut some MDF.

They look great.

Wil

Actually they aren't and it is funny you said that cause I have been thinking of painting them a light brown since they actually look kind of good like that. My original plan is piano black.

The looks will never match how they sound. They are amazing.

[zephyrtear]

They look great! How well do they fill the room?

[joeybutts]

They look great! How well do they fill the room?

They are FANTASTIC. Perfect. Get to levels making it difficult to speak. Definitely not HT levels (at least my idea of HT levels), but exactly what I was looking for in a common area.

Freq response it quite broad, digging pretty low for a 4" driver. Quite awesome actually.

This was exactly what I was going for in building these and it accomplished the goal in spades. (I believe that is the right phrase :P)

They will get loud, just way too easy to get that woofer fluttering with how clean they play. It's like a race car. Easy to drive hard, but push it to the limits and it goes from very fun to very scary real quick. There is no, "I can sense it is reaching it's limits.....". But they are buttery.....yummy....

[zephyrtear]

Thanks for the response joey! Im glad you are enjoing them so much!

Anyone know how they would compare to the R4 from Jeds lineup series? They are similar in size, both are 2 ways (and have somewhat similar drivers?). Im curious to know. I really want to build the speedsters but since i will be building the F4s for surrounds i thought i could buy two more TBs and get a discout and try the R4s instead. Any thoughts on them? They would be used as stereo for music and tv in my kitchen probably.

[joeybutts]

Thanks for the response joey! Im glad you are enjoing them so much!

Anyone know how they would compare to the R4 from Jeds lineup series? They are similar in size, both are 2 ways (and have somewhat similar drivers?). Im curious to know. I really want to build the speedsters but since i will be building the F4s for surrounds i thought i could buy two more TBs and get a discout and try the R4s instead. Any thoughts on them? They would be used as stereo for music and tv in my kitchen probably.

I haven't heard the R4, but have heard all the drivers you are speaking of. I don't think the 1337 is going to have the depth and impact like the 1720. The 1337 is extremely smooth and revealing I feel. I think the 1720 hides JUST a bit more, but will take that for the added extension and it's tonal qualities.

My F4's were a wonderful surprise and sounded real good. I did enjoy them while I had them.

Ultimately, do you want the extension of the Speedster's, or the analytical presentation of the R4's? I feel these are your two considerations. I hope others hop in and give their thoughts to confirm my limited memory of the 1337 driver.