Official Build Thread - MIC

[fishball79]

I definintely agree, white is the new black. They seem to also blend in with the surroundings better, less in your face.

meb46, i'm also in SG and am quite shocked you were able to assemble these complex beasts in your living room!

I would love to listen to your amazing speakers when they are ready.

Some of my projects in SG

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[Face]

I had a pair of Tannoy Arden cabinets in white, they reminded me of something out of a Woody Allen movie.

[meb46]

Fantastic inspiration folks, much appreciated. I love the idea of the drivers being emphasized against the white front Baffles.

FishBall79 - Unfortunately you have just missed me. I have just left Singapore bound for Chicago. After 5 years in SingaLinga, it was time for a new adventure/city... Chicago was it... due to hit the ground February 1st, so excited about the move... alas, I will still have another 4 weeks or so before my speakers arrive and I embark on the Preparation for paint and crossover construction

[moonriver]

A few pictures to show how they look as of today... and a few of the frustrating screw-ups my spray vendor has "botched"... GRRRRR...

Right Hand Side Speaker - Bass Drivers Mounted and wired in Series. The Mid range will not be fitted until I re-machine the Tweeter mount to fit the new Transducer Labs Tweeter (Still to arrive)



Top Module



Top of Left Hand Side Bass Unit showing the terrible rippling and blotchy effect from the Top Lacquer... GRRRR. Bass Drivers are not fitted to this cabinet and the mounts are just blocked off to protect the interior of the Cabinets.



Top of Left Hand Bass Cabinet showing pit's, dimples, and damage to cabinet.



Further Damage to Cabinet Edges.



Moral of the story in the world of the DIYer... and those with a need for asthetics... If you want it done right, Do It Yourself...!

I don't known the technical design for speakers baffle. If can! Could you please give me the speaker baffle for my avalon isis like your.
Best Regards.

[meb46]

Hello fellow forumers... after a significant "Transit sabatical" I am now back in Speaker mode. After finding a place to buy and managing to get all of our Singapore belongings safetly across the pacific and to Chicago, it's now time to resume the project... and I have made some great progress in the last 7 days.

After the huge disappointment of the clear finish over the wood veneer, I have opted to switch to a plain white finish... just to make it easier. I had intended on removing the veneer and resurfacing the MDF, but I thought I would try and get a Water Bourne Lacquer over the Clear Lacquer already there... and it managed to work. I essentially scuffed the solvent based clear... which was very flat aside from the dints and marks the previous finisher had put in, then sprayed on an ML Campbell Stain Blocking Water Bourne Lacquer adn it went on like magic. The adhesion is fantastic and finsh is flat and easy to sand. Thus far I have sprayed on four coats of the primer/sealer/stain blocker undercoat with a 220 grit rub back between coats. It has really good build properties and I am nearly happy with the coat to apply the top coat. I still have some very small deformities to take out in the next day or so, but I hope to be spraying the first of the top coats before the weekend. The top coat is an ML Campbell Agualente White Water Bourne Lacquer and I am hoping for a flat bright white finish. Before the top coats go on, I also need to Re-route the Speaker mounts to clean them up a little and this is pending a step-up transformer to power my 230V tools... hopefully have that tomorrow.

All good, and all looking positive again. Once they have some top coats on, I then have a few tasks set out for me from Jon such as cabinet impedance etc... finally some progress. The Tweeters are expected by the end of April, but at least I can get the bass cabinets near completion.

Progress progress progress... more to follow in the next few days with a few additional pictures...

[cjd]

Welcome to Chicago. Lovely weather eh? It's spring! just kidding. Then again maybe it is...

it was sunshine and beautiful when I walked out the door. It's getting more blah as I train towards downtown.

You might find it cheaper to get a 220v run to your workshop than a transformer. House mains are 220 and split 110-0-110. I'm not really sure how that compares to what you had before but... Higher end shop tools are often 240v.

[JonMarsh]

Glad to hear from you again, Mike!

Most US homes have 220 which is used for high power appliances with limited distribution. You might need to get an electrician to set up a 220 pair from your existing distribution box, which should already have two phases. As CJD points out, 110 is just one phase to neutral. The phases are 180 degrees apart.

[meb46]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback...

CJD - Thanks for the tip on the Voltage. The place I brought is a Condo down town... so the term "shop" is currently one of my bedrooms. No plans long term to keep it that way, only till I finish my speakers. In fact, I am under a tight timeline again as I am going to start renovations which will promptly end any DIY work in the spare room So time to get cracking and finish the dusty speaker work and then make way for cross over time. I actually dont mind the weather in Chicago, it is a welcome break from the high temp and humidity of Singapore... that said, I do find the fluctuations one day to the next amazing... near freezing one day and then beautiful the next... crazy My commute goes the other way, Downtown north to Glenview... and I am NOT liking the time it takes to do so in the morning...

Jon - Thanks for the details, as above, I will probably keep this simple considering its a short term project. On to more interesting topics, what is the first thing you need from me once the Speakers are all mounted in the enclosures? Impedance measurements? Let me know so I can get the details sorted in advance. Also, I assume there are a number of key items for the crossovers that I can source now? Can you give me an idea of the final schematic or does this pend my measurements once finished? Let me know... many thanks

Will try to get some photo's of the cabinets up later tonight... I am suprised to say... they look really good in white, and I am kicking myself for not doing the white originally. Live and learn...

[JonMarsh]

Jon - Thanks for the details, as above, I will probably keep this simple considering its a short term project. On to more interesting topics, what is the first thing you need from me once the Speakers are all mounted in the enclosures? Impedance measurements? Let me know so I can get the details sorted in advance. Also, I assume there are a number of key items for the crossovers that I can source now? Can you give me an idea of the final schematic or does this pend my measurements once finished? Let me know... many thanks

Will try to get some photo's of the cabinets up later tonight... I am suprised to say... they look really good in white, and I am kicking myself for not doing the white originally. Live and learn...

The main thing is going to be the impedance measurements for the woofers- using a bass reflex, you have a very different impedance curve with a double hump spaced around Fb, instead of a single hump at Fb- the upper impedance peak often presents problems with the LF crossover. So, with your impedance data, I can import this into the network and see how it looks.

I have data for the tweeter, so I'll just have to do a crossover pass with the impedance and amplitude data I've already measured for the N26.

The crossover is going to look a lot like this, but with some detail adjustments for the different tweeter, and possibly for the LF based on the impedance interaction (may need an LCR zobel/conjugate network to cancel the upper impedance peak in your system).



I'll put together a BOM based on a mix of air core and ERSE iron core inductors, to keep the expense reasonable. For the capacitors, I'll make my recommendations, then you should do what your budget will tolerate. That may mean stepping a grade down on the tweeter caps, say from Clarity MR to Jantzen Superior Z, and pondering your options for the midrange; I'm using a combination of parts in parallel, as even I didn't want to go fully Superio Z on the mid, but mixed them in parallel, which gives much of the benefit in the presence range where you need it, IMO.

Resistors here are all Mundorf Supreme using paralleled values to achieve the target, and you can substitute as you feel is necessary, but still try to target a similar power rating (20W each for the Mundorf, so don't go below 10W). I'm being a bit conservative, and not wanting heating effects on resistance value. I figure, if the Mundorfs are good enough for Magico, they're good enough for me.

[meb46]

Excellent, thanks Jon... I will let you know as soon as I have the speakers mounted and ready for the Impedance Testing then we can finalize the schematic and BOM list. No progress last night... ended up removing my kitchen... Perhaps tonight I might make some progress. Need to get things through in the next week as I am travelling again as of next Wednesday for a couple of weeks.

[meb46]

Update - White time...

Right, as promised, a few pictures of the cabinets in their "White" form. The white is a super crisp color which the photos dont really do justice for. They only have 2 coats of top coat on so far, and I will spray on another 3 or so and then a light rub back and polish. The White is a satin finish as I dont really want the high gloss effect...

[meb46]

Excuse the messy "renovation" environment around this picture... but here's how they look now. I have sprayed on a few coats of top coat and am now going to let them harden for the next two weeks while I am traveling. I will then have a final rub down (probably 400 grade hence the hardening) and a last super dustless top coat put on (Will need to reinvent my "Dexter" kill room again). I still need to re-machine the tweeter hole to fit the revised Transducer Labs tweeter... which I am still waiting on.

[Face]

Have you spoken to TL? I heard they're having production issues with their magnets, hence the holdup. A friend ordered a pair of tweeters from them 2 months ago and was told they'd be ready in two weeks...

[meb46]

Face - Yes, spoke to them last night and they are proposing to have my versions ready by mid-May. I am travelling until the 6th of May, so may work out okay. If all else fails, I might need to find an alternative...

[JonMarsh]

Excuse the messy "renovation" environment around this picture... but here's how they look now. I have sprayed on a few coats of top coat and am now going to let them harden for the next two weeks while I am traveling. I will then have a final rub down (probably 400 grade hence the hardening) and a last super dustless top coat put on (Will need to reinvent my "Dexter" kill room again). I still need to re-machine the tweeter hole to fit the revised Transducer Labs tweeter... which I am still waiting on.

Looking pretty nice, Mike. Yeah, that will definitely require a "Dexter" room to finish up! Pressed for time, I didn't go that direction, but I'm more than OK with how it turned out.

Just ordered new parts for another spin on the LF crossover, and tweak the midrange- stay tuned.

[PandazYa]

I just found your project and it looks amazing

I have also made a cabinet inspired by Avalon Isis but with only one woofer. Nothing was cnc'ed and it took me some time to perfectly cut all the pieces! I'm at the second coat of paint from the 8 or 10 I plan to do.

Here is a pic of the actual speakers:

enceintes Image not available

And this is how it should look once finished

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I can't wait to see your wonderful speakers finished!

[meb46]

Your speakers look great PandazYa. Can you let me know what paint you are using and the primer etc? What sort of spray equipment did you use to put it on?

[PandazYa]

I have used a primer and high gloss (both alkyd) from Tollens. This is basically the best paint you can find in France. As you can see I'm painting in my living room so I use a roller (I'm not sure about the exact word) and the final result is almost as good, if not as good compared to spray equipment.

About my Primer: http://www.tollens-professionnels.co...O-195847o_matp
And the High Gloss Paint: http://www.tollens-professionnels.co...RO-11188o_matp

I have stabilized the MDF before applying paint with a product called epoxy resin two component from Resoltech. This is probably the best product I've ever used so far.

Here is the 3D plan of my mini Isis-Scans Speak speaker

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[meb46]

That produces a fantastic finish for rolled on... very impressed. I have used a Satin finish but I do like the gloss finish you have.

[PandazYa]

High Gloss is a pain in the *** to work with to get a clean finish. Satin is a bit easier but looks superb too.

It depends on which one is gonna render the best with the rest of your furnitures

[Hdale85]

I've always said I want my speakers to be a piece of art, and a focal point. So I don't feel they need to match anything in the room. Some day I plan on doing birdseye maple or similar wood on an avalon style speaker with a bright blue stain and gloss finish.

[meb46]

I totally agree... I once heard that I high gloss is easy to get to if you are hand rubbing a finish... you just keep on rubbing till you get the gloss right... sounds easy but we all know its not so easy

The Satin finish will hopefully just blend into my wall colors and attempt to minimise the look/feel of the overall size of the cabinets. They are big, so every attempt to visually minimise them is being considered

Hopefully the Satin is a little more forgiving on the imperfections... thus far they look good aside from the occasional dust spec in the paint. I think I will still rub them back by hand a little and then decide on how it looks. Thats the trouble with DIY... your eye always see's the imperfections, even though most people wouldnt even notice them

[Face]

Hopefully the Satin is a little more forgiving on the imperfections... thus far they look good aside from the occasional dust spec in the paint. I think I will still rub them back by hand a little and then decide on how it looks. Thats the trouble with DIY... your eye always see's the imperfections, even though most people wouldnt even notice them

This is exactly why I prefer satin.

[PandazYa]

I was going for satin untill I see a picture from Tidal Audio speakers.

It convinced me to try high gloss after all. I think it was easier to build the top case of my isis clone than having a perfect gloss finish!!!

On my second screen it was just a test to validate the whole process. There was only 2 coats of high gloss paint and one polish pass. I can't wait to see the final resultat with 8 coats of paint and many polish passes

Here is an incredible high gloss finnish from Tidal Audio:

[Hdale85]

See those don't match anything in that room, they stand out and are very artistic

[Face]

Pretty room, but what an acoustic nightmare.

[meb46]

A box of excitment for this weekend... more parts on there way, but the construction, or at least layout planning phase can start to happen this weekend. The Top Cabinets are awaiting the TransducerLabs Tweeters at the moment before a slight machine and then final top coat of white. Bass Cabinets are currently being prepared for the top coat also, but they needed the bottoms tidied up which has been happening over the past two nights. Big "Speaker Weekend" planned, so more pictures come Monday.

[meb46]

Box of bits above are the majority of the Mid and Tweeter Capacitors... there are still Inductors and Resistors inroute and hopefully here by the Weekend. The big capacitors are Clarity Cap SA 100uF which are about the size of a beer can... and each crossover will probably end up with above 4 of them... these are not small crossovers. The blue Caps are 4.1uF Clarity Cap MR Series, and I am still waiting on a 27uF version as well, which will be the 400V version that are on back order with Madisound at the moment. In the mean time, the missing caps/parts will just be "virtualized" as I try to work out the layout in 2D CAD. The Bass Driver Crossovers are yet to be finalized due to measurements required from my cabinets once ready to go... Fun times...

Lastly, a big thank you to Jon for his time on the Crossover Design... this is one skillset I simply dont have, and Jons help on this has been fantastic!

[JonMarsh]

Nice box of parts and shiny stuff!

Hopefully the Satin is a little more forgiving on the imperfections... thus far they look good aside from the occasional dust spec in the paint. I think I will still rub them back by hand a little and then decide on how it looks. Thats the trouble with DIY... your eye always see's the imperfections, even though most people wouldnt even notice them

That's been my experience- it's hard to level gloss to where it looks perfect when you see reflections at a certain angle, but satin is more forgiving. Also, a little less distracting in furniture in general, and I do consider these furniture- though you occasionally see gloss finished furniture, it's pretty rare.


I've got more crossover parts on the way since we last talked, including everything needed for a complete updated midrange build- as well as the woofer and tweeter builds. I'm not taking the old one's apart, will be able to do A/B in both measurement and listening.

So, for those "critics" that have commented this is not a normal build for me, as the crossover cost doesn't exceed the driver cost, let's say I think we're crossing that threshold in a sense of development outlays, though the final product design should be kind of reasonable, and with options.

Not having these at home, though, is killing me! Only leaves me with practicing the organ or guitar if I have any free time in the evenings (which I mostly haven't- there's a big deal afoot I'm getting pulled into, to support the Automotive guys at a major customer that produces electric vehicles. All I can say. But it's going to make the next two weeks before leaving for England fairly brutal, I'm afraid.)

[meb46]

Great progress over the weekend... Top Coat sprayed on the Bass Cabinets, now waiting for them to harden before final rub back. In the mean time I have been working out the layout of the Mid/Tweeter Crossover networks...

This is the plan so far...

[JonMarsh]

Nice work- I'm palming a more formal layout plan for the midrange, too- just to try to optimize the flow and size. I did one combined tweeter and mid board in the prototype phase, but am debating with myself splitting that up. Suppose I should look at both. Getting ready for another meeting with my manager, out here from the East Coast. His wife just got laid off today- it's been a real Monday, though my customer meeting seemed to go fairly well.

[meb46]

Arrgghh, Mondays, nobody likes them...

Managed to get my Mid - High Crossover Mounting Board Drilled last night so at least I can get a taste of what one will look like... all components are top mounted and then wired underneath... a mixture of drawn copper wire and connectors etc... still waiting on a few parts like the big 27uF Cap, input/output connectors etc... but things are shaping up nicely...

[meb46]

Mid/High Crossover all mounted to baseboard. I am still missing a few parts and connectors, but the first one is progressing nicely.

[Aircirc]

Ok, so if it's ISIS let it be
I think we will be the three whites,i will paint my speakers in matte white,it is my second white speaker set,and i love the colour.
Preparing for the paint job:

[meb46]

Looking great!!! Not sure the weight of your cabinets... but mine are now pushing 200kg with both the top and bottom modules. It makes moving them near impossible and I typically damage the paint work everytime I move them. The Bass Cabinets now sit on dollies, but at some stage I need to try and get them off and onto the bases after the final rub down. I might need to hire a hand or recruit one of my friends to assist... it's just something that my wife can no longer help with...

[Aircirc]

I made some compromises, mine will weiht aproximatively 70kg-s or more,unfortunately my friends are too gelous to recruit them,so i had to keep a decent weight, and i have to lift them to the upper floor,so....Can't wait to have them finished!

[JonMarsh]

Woofer cabinet empty about 118 lb; upper module empty about 45 lb. Not glued together yet, but will be later this summer. Sure am glad those NS12-513 are lightweight Neo! But the assembled upper module feels like 60 lb, haven't weighed it, though.

Still have grilles to build. And second crossover build.

[Aircirc]

I will not glue them together, I will use 3-4 screws to screw them together from the bass cabinet. On the upper part of the bass cabinet I have the second connectors for the mid-high section. În two pieces it will be easier to move them . The mid section is vented, the opening is between the 2 cabinets, and ends in the back.

[meb46]

Delayed by yet another work trip over the last 10-days... I am now back into progress. I have some flash new Transducer Lab Tweeters on my desk... will get some photos of these posted later tonight. Also in store for tonight is the machining of the second Mid-Tweeter Crossover Board. I also have a DATS to have a play with that arrived when I was away... this will give me the ability to measure the Impedance of the Bass Cabinets. ALl that coupled with the Bass Cabinets being ready for their final rub down and the top cabinets set to machine for the new tweeters. Busy weekend ahead I suspect

[JonMarsh]

Delayed by yet another work trip over the last 10-days... I am now back into progress. I have some flash new Transducer Lab Tweeters on my desk... will get some photos of these posted later tonight. Also in store for tonight is the machining of the second Mid-Tweeter Crossover Board. I also have a DATS to have a play with that arrived when I was away... this will give me the ability to measure the Impedance of the Bass Cabinets. ALl that coupled with the Bass Cabinets being ready for their final rub down and the top cabinets set to machine for the new tweeters. Busy weekend ahead I suspect

Sounds great to me, Mike! Well, no sounds yet, but your getting closer and closer! All I'm getting is a touch of sunburn and some tired muscles out here in the English countryside! :W

[meb46]

Things are starting to shape up nicely...

1. First Bass Cabinet Rubbed Down, Base Plinth Attached, Drivers wired and Mounted along with the rear terminal cup.



2. Both Top Cabinets have been machined for the transducer Labs Tweeters, and then have had their top cost sprayed on. These will need to harden before I do a further rub down.



3. Further snap of the new Transducer Labs N26C2R-G-6 Tweeters



4. DATS Installed, Calibrated and initial Impedance Measurements and Curves done

[meb46]

Thursday Teaser...

Thursday Teaser on cabinet number one... all drivers in, cabinets polished up! Last part for the Mid/High Crossover ready to be fitted and tested tonight. Then its time to move to the other cabinet and do it all over again...

[Hdale85]

That looks amazing!

[Steve Manning]

Very nice ...... a very clean look. For some reason I never really think of doing white but when I see it, I like the look. Too late for my build though .... there already grey and no going back at this point. Looking forward to seeing the finished pair. :T

[JonMarsh]

Great progress, Mike! Looking very nice-

I just got back yesterday 2 AM, getting up to speed at work, and plan to get back to crossover evaluation for the woofer this weekend. Trying to figure out if I can build a new midrange crossover that will fit in the cabinet, too.