Official Build Thread - MIC

[JonMarsh]

I feel for you, been in the same situation. Just got to Prague today, will be heading back to the US a week from today.

[meb46]

Finally a break in the travel schedule... I have 2 weeks at home so I will hopefully make some progress on things. I have the final piece of the skin to glue to the bottom of one cabinet and then these should be ready for veneer. I have aslo started work on the base's and top/Bottom Cabinet spacer.

[meb46]

After a week of tirelessly working every evening, I have finally made some progress. As mentioned previously, I have completed the 6mm skin on all cabinets and then managed to get Birdseye Maple Veneer on to all of the cabinets as well.





I used a slightly different veneering process than my previous ones. This time I applied standard wood glue to both surfaces and then smoothed the veneer on with a cork block followed by a plastic roller. I didnt use the iron on method and found the 0.33mm paper backed veneer went on without any issues. There are no bubbles or cracks. Hugely happy with the outcome!

Finally they are starting to look like speakers!!!

[meb46]

A few more photos of the work-zone and completed cabinets. I have just put on two coats of sealer onto the bottom of each of the cabinets (Hence why they are all upside down). Once the sealer dries off, I can start and temproarily mount the base plinths and then start preparing the other cabinet surfaces for the seal coats.







Aiming to to plinths sealed this week and ready for dummy mounting. this should let me return the bass cabinets to the correct way up without damaging the base's. Then its preparation of all the sides etc... Progress Plus!!!!

[Dr.EM]

These look amazing, really look forward to seeing the end result :T

[JonMarsh]

Great progress!

Isn't it wonderful when the travel backs off?

This is my first weekend off in many weeks- since before my last biz trip to Europe. I was supposed to go last week again, but we worked out a way around it.

I'm hoping to crank out my sheet part paper printouts this weekend (along with some other stuff) and start some serious cutting soon. That still puts me way behind you... congratulations on your progress!

Setting up a new Macbook Pro for measurements and software will take a bit of time, too. It's really cool having an IPS screen on a laptop, though, especially with this resolution and two Thunderbolt ports. Sold my last Macbook Air to a friend yesterday, kind of hated to see it go... but she'll give it a good home, and it's a major upgrade for her.

Keep the progress and pictures coming!

[meb46]

A few weeks back I purchased a Wagner Control Sprayer Max... and last night I managed to put it to good use and sprayed a few coats of Lacquer Sealer onto the Cabinets. I cant fault the sprayer... it laid down the three coats flawlessly and with minimal setup time. Aside from sending myself a little loopy due to not using a ventilator, the finish off the gun is excellent.

The next step is a light sand before spraying on 5 - 6 coats of Clear Lacquer... this time with a ventilator or re-breather which I will need to get in the next few weeks. I will probably use a 400 dry sand to remove the bumps and then dust off and a tack-cloth.

Unfortunately I am travelling as of this weekend for another week and a half, so progress on these will take a temporary back seat... again...

[JonMarsh]

Looking really great, Mike! :T I'm extremely jealous!

[meb46]

Not much of an update... I am partially way through the Lacquer process. I have thus far managed to spray on about 5 coats of clear lacquer and I am just starting to rub back a few areas of orange peel... then will spray on another couple of coats to then hand rub back. All progressing well, then its on to figuring out how to start and get some test measurements...

[JonMarsh]

Well, slow and steady works, at least you're clearly getting there.

Yesterday was my first day off in two months, and I spent it auditioning USB interfaces audio quality- the one built into my NAD M51, and the Berkely Alpha USB. Both are very good.

Let me know when you get to the measurement stage- free consultation available as previously discussed!

[empoy]

amazing build!

[meb46]

Thanks Jon - I will definitely be taking you up on that I'll contact you separately once I have the cabinets finished and drivers mounted in. I am working from home as of the end of this month, so I need the cabinets and dusty/messy stuff all done by then so theres "reduced temptation" and my "Speaker Room" is turned into my office.

I had a play around with the clear lacquer that is hardening on the cabinets last night and it looks like it will rub out to a nice gloss. I am planning on putting another 4 coats either tonight or tomorrow night that will give me a suitable thickness to rub back. Finally they are really starting to look like the effort that has gone into them...

Photos posted soon...

[JonMarsh]

What brand of lacquer are you using, out of curiosity? Not that it's likely to be available here, but just curious. I've done some limited work with lacquer, but like it and am considering it for the finish on my new build.

You're at a really fun stage when things are coming together enough you can see a lot of what the final payoff will be, but you've still got some fun work left...

I just got the Thunderbolt to Firewire converter yesterday for my Macbook Pro, so I'll be set for setting up this system for measurements (I use a Firewire TC Konnekt audio interface for measurements and interfacing to my ACO Pacific mic preamp). I've sworn that this system (which I'm writing on now) will NOT be used for any work stuff- just audio and photography. The 17" MBP will remain dedicated for work (it was supposed to be just for personal stuff, but things got out of control and a Mac mini I had for work stuff got stolen, necessitating a fast switch over).

Interestingly, Fuzzmeasure appears to have been programmed in a way such that it detects the true graphics resolution for rendered graphs and is essentially Retina Macbook Pro ready- what a pleasant surprise!


I may have to threaten my boss with my big bank of vacation time in order to get anywhere, though. Flying to Houston this weekend on business.

[meb46]

Jon - I'm using a Brand Called Kangaroo 722 Clear Lacquer. Its from a Singaporean company so probably not available too broadly. I suspect its a bit more tailored to suit the high humidity in Singapore and not fog up during application. Its gone on very well and is currently just hardening up. I rubbed back a test sample I had up to 12,000 Micro Mesh and it comes up really nicely. A lot of hand rubbing is in order, but should work out well. Another few days of hardening yet before I start the finishing... paitently waiting...

[JonMarsh]

Well, that's about what I expected- with that name, it sounds like it came from an Aussie company, but I'm sure the locals know best how to deal with the humidity there (which is pretty amazing, based on my half dozen or so visits).

Will be on business travel this weekend, but may have the following weekend free...

[PMazz]

Jon, we've been using Sherwin-Williams pre-cat lacquers for some of our stuff and really like it. It's available in dull (maybe 15%), satin (~40%) and gloss (100%) sheen.

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for the heads up/info, Pete. You've gotten some great results on your projects- I'll look into the Sherwin-Williams.

Things have gone like a greased pig on rails here in Houston- couldn't have been better. Now I've got the following week off, mostly to catch up on domestic maintenance , but who knows, maybe I can get some wood cutting and measurements in, too? :roll:

Got some ceramic tweeters and waveguides to measure, for one thing...

[meb46]

Started rubbing back the cabinets and have already run into some issues:

1.First Cabinet I managed to rub through the 6 coats that it has to the sealer so I will need to respray that one.
2. Second cabinet is rubbed up and looked great until this morning in daylight where I found some small pores in the lacquer that seems to collect the white rubbed dust... tiny, but still noticeable. I think its probably acceptable, but I want it to look killer... so I will be giving it another go tonight.

On that note, I am rubbing back with Abralon then switching to MicroMesh and rubbing up to 12,000. Its a great finish, but will it improve much with a buffing wheel and rubbing compound? Thoughts?

[PMazz]

We used to use polishing compound and a buffing wheel but have since switched to 3M's Trizact abrasive discs.

Trizact

[Hdale85]

You won't see the nice deep finish until you polish and buff.

[JonMarsh]

We used to use polishing compound and a buffing wheel but have since switched to 3M's Trizact abrasive discs.

Trizact

Thanks!!

~jon

[Hank]

Love it, Pete :T There's actually a great deal of development work in microreplication to develop our Trizact.
meb46, your work is fantastic!
Jon, it's heartening to see you've got a whole week off! :dance:

[JonMarsh]

Love it, Pete :T There's actually a great deal of development work in microreplication to develop our Trizact.
meb46, your work is fantastic!
Jon, it's heartening to see you've got a whole week off! :dance:

No kidding! Just boarded the plane from Houston to Phoenix on the way home to San Jose.

Our customer just moved the goalposts on this project in a serious way- double the output power and 1/3 less volume to put it all in! My boss will likely be furious, but I have a plan…. :W

Throws a big monkey wrench in the next few months, though!

[meb46]

Right... so lesson number 9,675... When you spend hour upon hour in Solidworks designing boxes, followed by countless dollars for CNC Machining then the sweat of assembling them, you want them to look not good, but great!

So... after spraying countless coats and hours rubbing the cabinets back... then having a mild crisis when they dont look perfect... I have folded and sent them to a professional to finish. I have now sent all four cabinets to a furniture re-finisher to spray on the top coats and polish up. Yes, its the cheats way out, but I could not get them to a point where I was happy with the finish.

The down side of making something yourself is that you always know where the defects are... and I want these perfect! Hence, spraying in a "Dexter" like room in my apartment with a turbine Spray gun, 30+ Degrees C and upwards of 90% humidity is just simply not cutting the mustard. Consider the professionals employed...

I now have to wait around 4 weeks to have them sprayed, harden and then rubbed back and polished... by an ex-Bently painter... can't be a bad thing... My hopes are high for the finish so I am paitently waiting... in the mean time... its time to think crossovers... Jon

Next drama of the week, which I have shared with Jon already... I managed to damage one of my Accuton Tweeters during test fitting. Tears were nearly shed and I had a minor kiniption in the process... however... what eventuates is that I will switch the tweeter to a N26C tweeter from Transducer Labs. Still waiting on confirmation of some mounting details. More on this soon...

For those that are interesting in using the Accuton CELL Tweeters... be warned... they are tricky to mount and get mounted correctly even with CNC machined baffles. They use a compressed o-ring to secure them in the baffle and when you get it wrong... they are unforgiving!!!! Hence... I now have one spare Accuton Tweeter... a rather expensive paper weight! You need to have relatively small gauge cable to these to fit in the mounting cups, and if you need to remove one from the base mounting cup... make sure the slide out... if there is ANY resistance... dont force them apart as the ceramic dome and front face easliy separates from the magent and motor housing. EXPENSIVE 1.657 seconds!!!!! The accuracy of the mounting hole is very tight to ensure you can securely compress an o-ring to secure the tweeter in the baffle. Its suddenly working with tolerances of less than 0.5mm... with MDF... HARD!

Before the Cabinets were picked up for painting, I crudely mounted one of the C173 Accuton Mids and threw some noise at it... it is scary how honest and revealing they are. I worry that I will finish these and then realize I will need to overhaul the rest of my system and music collection to ensure they can match the honesy to the C173... But... I suspect they are worth every penny of it!!!!

I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel... this has been a mamouth project and I havent even started crosssovers yet (with Jon's assistance). So on that note, lesson number 9,676 for new comers... "when you start a project, take what you think it will cost you and the time it will take, then triple it, and you are getting close"... but... you'll love the process!!!

[Face]

For those that are interesting in using the Accuton CELL Tweeters... be warned... they are tricky to mount and get mounted correctly even with CNC machined baffles. They use a compressed o-ring to secure them in the baffle and when you get it wrong... they are unforgiving!!!! Hence... I now have one spare Accuton Tweeter... a rather expensive paper weight! You need to have relatively small gauge cable to these to fit in the mounting cups, and if you need to remove one from the base mounting cup... make sure the slide out... if there is ANY resistance... dont force them apart as the ceramic dome and front face easliy separates from the magent and motor housing. EXPENSIVE 1.657 seconds!!!!! The accuracy of the mounting hole is very tight to ensure you can securely compress an o-ring to secure the tweeter in the baffle. Its suddenly working with tolerances of less than 0.5mm... with MDF... HARD!

That's disappointing to hear. Do you have any pictures?

[Evil Twin]

Right... so lesson number 9,675... When you spend hour upon hour in Solidworks designing boxes, followed by countless dollars for CNC Machining then the sweat of assembling them, you want them to look not good, but great!

So... after spraying countless coats and hours rubbing the cabinets back... then having a mild crisis when they dont look perfect... I have folded and sent them to a professional to finish. I have now sent all four cabinets to a furniture re-finisher to spray on the top coats and polish up. Yes, its the cheats way out, but I could not get them to a point where I was happy with the finish.

The down side of making something yourself is that you always know where the defects are... and I want these perfect! Hence, spraying in a "Dexter" like room in my apartment with a turbine Spray gun, 30+ Degrees C and upwards of 90% humidity is just simply not cutting the mustard. Consider the professionals employed...

I now have to wait around 4 weeks to have them sprayed, harden and then rubbed back and polished... by an ex-Bently painter... can't be a bad thing... My hopes are high for the finish so I am paitently waiting... in the mean time... its time to think crossovers... Jon

Next drama of the week, which I have shared with Jon already... I managed to damage one of my Accuton Tweeters during test fitting. Tears were nearly shed and I had a minor kiniption in the process... however... what eventuates is that I will switch the tweeter to a N26C tweeter from Transducer Labs. Still waiting on confirmation of some mounting details. More on this soon...

For those that are interesting in using the Accuton CELL Tweeters... be warned... they are tricky to mount and get mounted correctly even with CNC machined baffles. They use a compressed o-ring to secure them in the baffle and when you get it wrong... they are unforgiving!!!! Hence... I now have one spare Accuton Tweeter... a rather expensive paper weight! You need to have relatively small gauge cable to these to fit in the mounting cups, and if you need to remove one from the base mounting cup... make sure the slide out... if there is ANY resistance... dont force them apart as the ceramic dome and front face easliy separates from the magent and motor housing. EXPENSIVE 1.657 seconds!!!!! The accuracy of the mounting hole is very tight to ensure you can securely compress an o-ring to secure the tweeter in the baffle. Its suddenly working with tolerances of less than 0.5mm... with MDF... HARD!

Before the Cabinets were picked up for painting, I crudely mounted one of the C173 Accuton Mids and threw some noise at it... it is scary how honest and revealing they are. I worry that I will finish these and then realize I will need to overhaul the rest of my system and music collection to ensure they can match the honesy to the C173... But... I suspect they are worth every penny of it!!!!

I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel... this has been a mamouth project and I havent even started crosssovers yet (with Jon's assistance). So on that note, lesson number 9,676 for new comers... "when you start a project, take what you think it will cost you and the time it will take, then triple it, and you are getting close"... but... you'll love the process!!!

Undoubtedly you'll agree this has become more of a project manager program than a conventional DIY project... it is with some irony that the Chancellor's code name for the corresponding ongoing project on this side of the Pacific is "DeathStar"- an inauspicious recollection of the last major project management disaster I was involved in! :evil:

In your situation, you have probably made the most appropriate decision possible for a true perfectionist. Undoubtedly the expert you have chosen will do an excellent job, and perhaps this will give Jon Marsh an opportunity to close the construction gap slightly...

[JonMarsh]

Re the N26 tweeter

Did some measurements this weekend, including some quick distortion graphs @ 90 dB output for the N26A. Looks pretty nice for this price point!

This was not a full IB setup, just something quick and dirty and near field to get some basic data (gotta love instrumentation mics like this ACO Pacific and their high dynamic range- 90 dB/1Meter at a few inches will blow out the inexpensive condensers such as PE's Behringer.



Checking quite a few samples (I have four pair) the upper resonance is very consistent at 32 kHz, indicating a consistent manufacturing process for the dome. The underhung VC seems to be a fairly symmetrical, as second and third harmonic track much more closely than say, a typical Scanspeak in the Illuminator or Revelator series.

A fairly typical resonance amplification of distortion products is present, but the level is reasonably low- for the most part, HD is in the -65 to -70 dB range. In a smaller system, a 2 kHz crossover seems quite reasonable, but a 2800-3000 kHz point will work well for a higher power three way.

[meb46]

Plinth Development

Finally, in the absence of my actual cabinets, I have made some progress on the Plinths.

The Bass cabinets will sit ontop of the Plinths... screwed to Bass Cabinet. These Plinths are a Ply/MDF Sandwich, about 40mm thick and a slightly undersized compared to the bottom of the Bass Cabinet. They should sit in about 20mm from each edge. The cut out at the back is for the main port, and the Plinth then sits on ViaBlue spikes. The ViaBlue Spikes are rated for up to around 200kg, so they should handle the weight of the completed cabinets.

The Spikes have added a bit of height but this should give the port a good deal of breathing room between the bottom of the Plinth and the floor.

Plinths are sealed, undercoated and finished in a Matt Black Lacquer... These could be a lot better, but they arent really seen in the bigger scheme of things...

[JonMarsh]

Looking pretty nice, Greg. I've got a LOT of catching up to do, and your posts help motivate me.

Have another sawing session scheduled Saturday morning (MDF and LBL top module pieces), gluing Saturday afternoon. Some of the System Three stuff arrived today, expect the rest today or Monday. My GF encouraged me to setup and work at her place, because then she gets to see what and how I'm doing, and of course, she just likes having me in her hair more often.

Rebuilding part of her garage storage cabinets has it's benefits.

Aren't the cabinets due back from the Bentley soon, like this weekend?

[meb46]

Cabinets are due back this coming weekend... hopefully no delays on them as I am eager to have them back sitting in my lounge... in all their glory

[JonMarsh]

Of course, pictures will be necessary!

[meb46]

Definitely... I'm hoping that I can post two versions... one without Bass Drivers and one with... all depends on how motivated i'm feeling on the day

I will have to wait until the revised Transducer Lab Tweeters are ready before I can load the mids in... I will need to re-machine the front baffle of the top cabinet to fit these in... so it will be an exercise of extreme caution in an attempt to not mark the lacquer as I route... I think I maybe sticking on a lot of protective tap before I start that exercise...

[meb46]

Bugger... Cabinets have been delayed another week... fingers crossed for next Friday...

[Hdale85]

Hmm, why's it take so long to spray a clear coat? lol I guess it's likely a really busy shop.

[meb46]

Haha... i'm not stressing on this yet... all things considered, there is quite a bit of work, including time to let the lacquer harden before polishing... a mistake lots of people struggle with

[Hdale85]

Lol, it would drive me crazy When it's something new I get pretty impatient sometimes.

[JonMarsh]

Lol, it would drive me crazy When it's something new I get pretty impatient sometimes.

Don't we all?

You know, lacquer is generally billed as being a much faster process than, say, rub on poly. And as regards the actual immediate work, I agree that's true... the application process for rub on poly is much longer. But the overall completion times, considering finish curing and final steps, is not all that different, in my experience.

I hadn't used rub on poly in a long time before the Arvo Picante build, but considering how easy that was and how nice it's turned out after curing and final finishing, I'll likely go with that for my build in progress. I've got plenty of LBL scrap to test it on, but judging from what I got from Pau Ferro, I'm not worried!

Mike, the suspense has got to be killing you, but I bet you're going to be super pleased once those finally show up!

[cjd]

poly + tung oil + lemon oil (or similar cut, if needed) in equal parts produces an amazing finish - especially over shellac. With rub-on-poly and tung-oil I went 40%, 50%, and 10% thinner.

just sayin'

[PMazz]

It's the yellowing I don't like with all those finishes. Over time, the color changes significantly.

[dar47]

It's the yellowing I don't like with all those finishes. Over time, the color changes significantly.

Agreed, I'm liking the water based sanding sealer from General finishes and the Varathane Nano Defence. It has UV blockers so if your applying to something like cherry it doesn't darken as much and the finish doesn't seem to yellow.

Image not available

[cjd]

It's the yellowing I don't like with all those finishes. Over time, the color changes significantly.

Funny - I don't like "freshly made" most of the time. I like the aging. Never really thought about it though.

C

[meb46]

Arrrrgh... My cabinet return has been delayed until Tuesday next week... I think I'm having separation anxiety...

On another note, I have just had FedEx drop off two nice packages...

4x NS10-513-4A not sure what these are for yet... anythings possible! Need to get the current project finished first

and...

4x Passive Radiators from HiVi that mate with their SP10 Subs. These are an interesting beast... I think the SP10 + these Passive Radiators are the two drive units in the Sunfire Subs... these may eventually become something similar... one day

[JonMarsh]

:rofl:

Yeah, that's what happens when circumstances delay working on your "main" projects- other ideas start popping up and taking time and resources!

I've got two pairs of those NS10-513, too!

[Hdale85]

Did you get them back yet?????

[meb46]

Not yet... waiting yet another week for a repair on a join... hopefully Wednesday next week... fingers crossed!!!