Knights Mini Statement and 2rcc Center build

[KnightsOfNi]

Ok I must apologize in advance for what is probably a stupid question.
I have been reading the crossover layout for the 2rcc center channel
But please tell, on the crossover wiring diagram there is a part called generator 1.
What is that :huh:
Thank you for your time
Knights of Ni

[FroDaddy]

Ok I must apologize in advance for what is probably a stupid question.
But please tell, on the crossover wiring diagram there is a part called generator 1.
What is that :huh:
Thank you for your time
Knights of Ni

That's your positive lead from your amplifier :W

[KnightsOfNi]

That's your positive lead from your amplifier :W

Thanks for the reply and for getting an alternate center channel design underway.
I am planning to build this center and the Mini Statements even though this center is bigger,
because I only have about 3" to spare behind the center speaker location.
Power will be provided by an Emotiva XPA-5

Regards
Knights

[---k---]

Well, a good amplifier is recommended for almost all of the projects around these parts. They are mostly 4ohm speakers that will punish a receiver.

But, there are a few projects that are cheap receiver friendly, such as the TriTrix. CJD and I are also making a specific effort for or new Ochocincos to be cheap receiver friendly. Also, many people report having good luck driving our 4ohm projects with a high quality receiver.

So, you don't necessarily NEED an amplifier. It depends on your choices and goals. I would highly recommend that any receiver you buy, make sure it has pre-amp outs, so you can add a good amp to it when you get there.

[KnightsOfNi]

Thank you for your reply Ryan, I am new to crossovers so I had no idea Generator 1 was a power amp feed
My current setup is a Yamaha rxv4600 feeding an Emotiva XPA 5 which puts out 300w into 4ohms so I am excited to hear what a Statement setup will do, especialy in comparison to Paradigm Studio 40v3's.
What I am hoping for is a mid range to die for, and a bit more bottom end, I know that the bottom will not be earth shattering, but more than the 40's would be good.
Thanks for your answers
Knights

[FroDaddy]

...I am planning to build this center and the Mini Statements even though this center is bigger, because I only have about 3" to spare behind the center speaker location..
.
.
.
Regards
Knights

When were you going to build the Mini's?

[KnightsOfNi]

Right now, I just ordered the parts and am looking forward to starting both projects.
I don't have room for the full Statements, but the Minis should be fine.
I have been asked to start a new build thread on the Minis when I get started.
If you want I can add comments to your thread on the center channel or start a new one.
Deep respect to all involved in these excellent designs
Regards
Knights

[FroDaddy]

My Mini build is scheduled to kick off in April, so perhaps you'll beat me to the finish. It's up to you if you'd like to start a 2rCC build thread; I know sometimes it's easier just to build the darn things Let me know if you decide to put a thread up!

[KnightsOfNi]

I have a couple of questions again about this center.
I have finally started it, I cut all the parts last night.
I am building this at the same time as the Mini's, starting with the center as is is a little simpler construction (no pass through!)
My questions are;
1. Can the 2 outside edges be 3/4" rounded to match the Statements? (not the top and bottom, I just want to do the sides)
2. I could only find one measurement on the hole in the braces, do you just leave 3/4" material on the other 3 sides of the hole?
It also appears to have some round-over on the brace hole.
3. Does the Sonic Barrier get placed on every MDF surface in the box?
Also do you recommend an inch gap between the Sonic Barrier and the baffle for breathing room or is this unnecessary?
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Regards
Knights

[KnightsOfNi]

Knights Mini Statement and 2rcc Center build

Hello all welcome to my Mini Statement and 2rcc center build (AKA Frodaddy center channel)
I am hoping that by documenting this build I can avoid the many pitfalls during building and hopefully help others who are considering either speaker.
I have already learned so much from the Mini Statement thread and the 2rcc thread so first of all thank you to all involved with the development of both
designs without you guys I would not even be starting this project.

The Mini's were selected because I wanted a tower speaker but the Statements were too large for my room.
I selected the 2rcc because I can not afford more than a couple of inches behind my center channel so the standard center would not work.

I ordered most of the caps from ERSE except I ordered the 80 uf cap from Solen to avoid using 2 caps.
The woofers and the mids I ordered from solen.ca because Parts Express insists on UPS to ship to Canada so therefore costs a fortune.
The service received from Solen was excellent.
Ports, binding posts and ribbons ordered from Madisound.
I am planning on Mills resistors for both speakers as they add little to the overall cost. (I assume that 12w is ok compared to the ERSE 25w spec'ed)

I am changing the Mini's a bit. I am making the port rear firing and eliminating the base. To stabilize the speaker I am making hardwood out riggers.

So that is my introduction I will add pictures as soon as I figure it out, to document the progress.
Thanks for reading
Knights

[KnightsOfNi]

Obligatory pile of MDF Saturday 13th March



A nice young gentleman at the HD cut ALL my boards to width on the panel saw and charged me $1, it was supposed to be $1 PER CUT :T
Next is my first dry fit



Sunday 14th March
Next I was finally able to do my first clamp and glue up.
Thank Bessey for corner clamps, it was good timing for the KW Wood Show, I was able to pick up a few missing tools.



The only other thing I got done are the braces. I used a 1" spade bit in the corners, then a jigsaw for the straight cuts. Tomorrow I will round over the hole with the router to smooth things up a bit
(EDIT Frodaddy just told me that the round-over is unnecessary as the box is stuffed, so I guess I will save some time!)



That's all for today
Regards Knights

[FroDaddy]

I have a couple of questions again about this center.
I have finally started it, I cut all the parts last night.
I am building this at the same time as the Mini's, starting with the center as is is a little simpler construction (no pass through!)
My questions are;
1. Can the 2 outside edges be 3/4" rounded to match the Statements? (not the top and bottom, I just want to do the sides)
2. I could only find one measurement on the hole in the braces, do you just leave 3/4" material on the other 3 sides of the hole?
It also appears to have some round-over on the brace hole.
3. Does the Sonic Barrier get placed on every MDF surface in the box?
Also do you recommend an inch gap between the Sonic Barrier and the baffle for breathing room or is this unnecessary?
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Regards
Knights

1. No problem rounding the left/right edges
2. Leave about 1" on the other 3 sides of the hole, but the roundover isn't necessary on the bracing because you'll stuff this with polyfill.
3. Let me see if Jed can help with this question

[Jed]

For 3., all the interior walls are lined with sonic barrier, except you don't want it under the crossover board. I didn't put a gap of sonic barrier and the baffle, but if you want you can trim around the mids a bit, if it is too close to the cone.

[Jim Holtz]

Looks great! :T

Jim

[KnightsOfNi]

I know it's early, but here is a sample of the Zebrawood veneer I am planning to use.
Next to it is a small board of Zebrawood that I am planning to use for the outriggers.
The board was another purchase at the KW Wood Show, it was an unplanned purchase but I hope it will work well.



Regards
Knights

[numberoneoppa]

Beautiful veneer/wood, should look great.

[Jed]

I love Zebrawood. I can't wait to see these done in it!

[KnightsOfNi]

Hi Guys I would like to make a quick update.
I have edited a few posts today as my previous posts on other threads have been combined together in this thread, and it wasn't making sense, I hope my changes are okay.

Today I got my 2rcc glued and clamped together.



I am really happy to actually see something that looks like a speaker box :P
I have got to say, this is a LARGE center channel, I like! :B
I will probably have to start on the towers soon as I wait for the Sonic Barrier and a few other bits and pieces to arrive. I don't think I can close it in until I line it.
That's all for now
Thanks for reading
Knights

[FroDaddy]

The pictures are a bit deceiving regarding the 2rCC's size. At this pace you'll be done with the build in notime at all!

[KnightsOfNi]

I halted the build for a while because I was having a problem cutting my boards straight. All the strips were cut for me but I was having difficulty doing my cross cuts. I researched for a while and decided on a table saw sled! 8) (sorry about the fuzzy pictures I forgot my camera and had to use my phone)


I just finished it and it works perfect
So now back to building
I have glued up all my baffles as I want to cut all the speaker holes at once.
The first one I did I clamped it and it did not stay flat.



Is a slight curve anything to worry about, as a think I can clamp it flat when I glue it. Or should I make another?
I learned from my first baffle and used weights the next time. Much better!



Here is a picture of the back clamped on



Now I have my sled built things should be a bit easier
Regards
Knights

[KnightsOfNi]

I have a quick question on the application of the Sonic Barrier
The BOM calls for 2 sheets and I am trying to figure out how much I need.
I read that it is to be placed on all interior surfaces, this may seem like an obvious question but do I need to place it on the outside of the Mid Tweeter box? If I put it there it seems that I will not have enough.



It looks like it is not needed because the brace hole does not allow for it.
Any insight would be appreciated
Regards
Knights

[FroDaddy]

I have a quick question on the application of the Sonic Barrier
The BOM calls for 2 sheets and I am trying to figure out how much I need.
I read that it is to be placed on all interior surfaces, this may seem like an obvious question but do I need to place it on the outside of the Mid Tweeter box? If I put it there it seems that I will not have enough.



It looks like it is not needed because the brace hole does not allow for it.
Any insight would be appreciated
Regards
Knights

I covered all surfaces that the woofer could "see", and I placed sonic barrier behind the mid chamber with what little sonic barrier was left.

[KnightsOfNi]

I started tonight to rout the baffles and I have a question about the gasket.
I got the 3/8" by 1/8" gasket from Parts Express.
Should I use the gasket on the tweeter also, as it has a thin gasket on it all ready?
What seems to be working for the depth of the flange is routing it flush with the bare MDF then when I add the gasket the speaker is slightly proud of the front.
As I am veneering the speakers, the veneer should make up the difference.(I hope)
Am I on the right track?
Any help is appreciated
Regards
Knights

[Jed]

You won't need extra gasket tape on the tweeter. Your strategy for routering the tweeter depth seems solid.

[KnightsOfNi]

Thank you Jed for your reply, just what I needed to know.
Today was spent routing baffles, slow dusty progress.
Here is a completed Mini Statement baffle, except for the extra tweeter cut and back rounding to allow the speakers to breathe.



One thing I learned quickly is to make a test hole in a piece of scrap,



( Not Mickey Mouse) I tried every hole and recess on a piece of scrap wood.
The first hole I did came out about .020" small.
It was just slightly small but the speaker would not go in. To adjust my size I switched up to a 5/16" bit which made me just slightly larger than spec but it seemed to work well.
The next hitch, my original plan was to build the Mini Statements then eventually build a center. I then decided to build the Frocenter at the same time as my friend is allowing me to use his wood shop so space is not a problem.
So what is the problem? I bought the small Jasper jig as the biggest cut on the Mini's is 7 3/16" and the 2RCC center has bigger woofers that can't be cut on the small jig, so I am going to have to make a simple jig for the outer recess on the 8" woofer.



So hopefully I can have my baffles finished this weekend and the center baffle glued on then I can start assembling the Mini's. Hopefully my Erse order comes soon so I can build the crossovers. Can't wait to hear these speakers, things are starting to come together.
Regards
Knights

[KnightsOfNi]

Hello guys I have another question.
I am planning to veneer the cabinets with raw veneer.
I have a veneer saw for the straight cuts and I think I will try a flush trim bit on the edges.
How do you trim the veneer around the speaker recesses?
I read somewhere about a modified flush trim bit but I can't find it again.
Any tips on how to do this will be appreciated.
Thanks again for all the advice given to me so far,
Knights

[Jed]

Hello guys I have another question.
I am planning to veneer the cabinets with raw veneer.
I have a veneer saw for the straight cuts and I think I will try a flush trim bit on the edges.
How do you trim the veneer around the speaker recesses?
I read somewhere about a modified flush trim bit but I can't find it again.
Any tips on how to do this will be appreciated.
Thanks again for all the advice given to me so far,
Knights

I grind down a tiny flush trim router bit. I think I got it from rockler.com. Yup, here it is:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5410&filter=flush%20trim%20bit

[KnightsOfNi]

Thanks Jed I was looking at those, I was not sure if they could be ground down.
I will grab one and try a test piece.
Regards
Knights

[KnightsOfNi]

I am working on the crossover for the center and I am having a hard time with the thick speaker wire.
How are you supposed to connect the thick stranded wire to the crossover network?
Thank you
Knights

[---k---]

How thick? I usually use 14 ga, because it is on hand. Just twist the wires together and solder. I've not had a problem. I now use a Weller Soldering Gun. ~$28 from Lowes. I used to use a cheep soldering station. For the thick wire, the big gun works much better. I think it was Mark H. who recommended it.

[Jed]

I am working on the crossover for the center and I am having a hard time with the thick speaker wire.
How are you supposed to connect the thick stranded wire to the crossover network?
Thank you
Knights

WBT solder has a low melting temp. What gauge wire are you using? Hopefully not thicker than 14 gauge. If you don't want to solder thick wires to the boards, you can do the Jon Marsh/Thomas W technique with the white radioshack terminal strip and just screw the contacts tight.

[KnightsOfNi]

Edit (thanks K as well I missed your post this morning through the sleep in my eyes) :Z
Thanks for your reply Jed, my inexperience in speaker building is showing!
I am using eutectic solder from RadioShack and it is working great for my point to point wiring.
I have a bunch of KnuKonceptz 12g wire left over from when I wired my car system, it is beauty wire but maybe too heavy?
I can't seem to fully tin the wire.
The biggest problems are, the areas on the crossover that I need to connect more than 1 wire.
When connecting the woofers in parallel should I be running both wires direct from the crossover, or should I connect the '+' and the '-' of each speaker together?
Both ways would give me parallel but what is recommended?
Thanks again for your help
Knights

[Jed]

You either need to get a hotter solder iron to use 12 gauge, get some 14 gauge wire + WBT solder, or use a terminal strip. I think there is a labeled crossover picture with the connections for where the + or - goes.

[KnightsOfNi]

Thanks guys I chose to get a larger soldering iron.
What a difference
It soldered the 12g onto the crossover no problem



I am making two boards, the one above for the woofers and another one for the tweeters and mids.
Do my connections look alright? First time crossover builder.
Another problem solved today.
Solution to a Jasper jig too small to cut large circles.



I know many on here make their own jigs, I can now agree it is not that hard.
The new jig allowed me to finish my 2RCC baffle



More to follow
Regards
Knights of Ni

[KnightsOfNi]

Well today I also lined most of the speaker with 3/4" Sonic Barrier
I must have misunderstood where the lining should go because I don't seem to have enough.
Is this enough lining on the bottom of the speaker?



Okay sorry I am kidding! :B
Seriously though, I lined the back, top, Mid tweeter area and in behind on the back top and bottom and then run out.



And another view



Did I misunderstand or should I have got more?
How I plan to proceed is, place the crossovers on the bottom near the braces on each side,
then cover the rest of the bottom around the crossover and the sides with the convoluted acoustic foam I got for the Mini's.
Does this plan sound alright? As I am in Canada getting another sheet would be expensive and take about 2 weeks.
Another full build day planned for tomorrow.
Regards
Knights

[Jed]

We didn't use Sonic Barrier behind the midrange chamber. That area is just filled with Acousta Stuff or poly fill. That's probably why you ran out of Sonic Barrier.

I also don't recall using the Sonic Barrier on the wall that separates the woofer from the mids.

Maybe Frodaddy can chime in on that. He's got the cabinet and put the BOM together.

[FroDaddy]

I covered the immediate woofer areas with sonic barrier first, then I placed the leftover sonic barrier behind the mid chamber. Your options are limited now, so if it were me I'd move forward with some temporary dampening on the bare MDF then put some sonic barrier there later. The front baffle is looking good btw!

[KnightsOfNi]

You got me a little worried.
When I line the remaining surfaces will having more lining than you planned have a negative effect on performance?
Learning as I go
Thank you
Knights

[FroDaddy]

No worries, having more will deaden the cabinet more, and will produce a positive result.

[Jed]

Or he could remove it from the areas that don't need it and glue it in place if the adhesive is no longer good.

Frodaddy, is correct that the additional sonic barrier is not a bad thing since this entire enclosure is stuffed anyway.

[KnightsOfNi]

Just finished the second crossover board other than the hot glue.
Does it look alright?



Did I read the circuit right, the Mid and tweeter are connected out of phase?
It took me a while to figure that out I thought I was going crazy!
Good news is
The first box is finished :T



All I need to do is figure out what I am going to do about the Sonic Barrier shortage, install the crossovers and speakers and I should get some sound.
I should really be patient and veneer it first, but that pile of speakers are calling to me. (or is it my Wife telling me to hurry up so we can sell my Paradigms :W )
Mini Statement build should start now in earnest, baffles are already done so it should go quite quickly.
Thanks for reading and many words of wisdom
Knights

[Jed]

Image not available

If you snap a picture of the woofer board I can label that too and put it in the reference thread.

Jed

[KnightsOfNi]

Thanks for doing that Jed, it clears things up nicely!
Here is the picture of the woofer circuit, I am sorry I did not take one without wires.



I am hoping having 2 smaller boards will make installation easier as I will probably bi wire.
My sincerest thanks
Knights

[Jed]

Image not available

Maybe Thomas W can add these 2 labeled pics of the crossover boards into the master thread, because now that they are locked, I can't do it. Otherwise they will be just here.

Jed

[KnightsOfNi]

Wahoo :B
My first speaker ever is built! (ok no veneer yet, but it looks like a speaker)



Here is a couple more pictures of how I got there.
Woofer crossover in place



Tweeter and Mid crossover



Wish I had tiny wee hands now. I was surprised how stuffed the speaker was with both bags installed as recommended, but I will trust the experts.



I quickly checked online to see the weight rating of my tv stand, it is rated at 65lbs.
So I wonder how much my speaker weighs?



I think I know what my next project is. :T
I am hoping to hook it in to my amp tomorrow, will report my findings (hope it works ops: )
Regards
Knights