BusbyGT's Mini Statement and Statement Center Build Thread

[BusbyGT]

I'm on the quest to build the mini statements and statement center. Already placed my order for the speakers and crossover parts but I had forgotten about some of the items (port parts, foam, etc.) but I had a few questions before I place the 2nd order:

1) Is Polyfill needed for the mini statements or the center? I don't see it mentioned but I know how it can make a difference.

2) How much foam roughly is needed? PE sells it in 18" x 24" sheets. Would 6 sheets be enough?

3) I read Curt's page and saw the minis were lined with 2" foam except for the mid-tunnel, I'm assuming 1" foam double stacked will be adequate for the 2"?

4) "I lined the chambers behind the RS180’s with 2” foam on all sides, holding back from the front baffle by about 2”." - Is that so the front baffle can be lined with 2" foam or does the front baffle not get the treatment?

5) Glue, staple, ??? the foam to the box? I was thinking the 3M spray glue. Is there an accepted "do it this way" method?

If anybody else has anything to add/tips I'd appreciate it.

[Jim Holtz]

I'm on the quest to build the mini statements and statement center. Already placed my order for the speakers and crossover parts but I had forgotten about some of the items (port parts, foam, etc.) but I had a few questions before I place the 2nd order:

1) Is Polyfill needed for the mini statements or the center? I don't see it mentioned but I know how it can make a difference.

2) How much foam roughly is needed? PE sells it in 18" x 24" sheets. Would 6 sheets be enough?

3) I read Curt's page and saw the minis were lined with 2" foam except for the mid-tunnel, I'm assuming 1" foam double stacked will be adequate for the 2"?

4) "I lined the chambers behind the RS180’s with 2” foam on all sides, holding back from the front baffle by about 2”." - Is that so the front baffle can be lined with 2" foam or does the front baffle not get the treatment?

5) Glue, staple, ??? the foam to the box? I was thinking the 3M spray glue. Is there an accepted "do it this way" method?

If anybody else has anything to add/tips I'd appreciate it.

Welcome aboard! I hope you'll enjoy the Statements series speakers as much as I do. I'll try to answer your questions in order:

1. No polyfill is required. Use 2" foam or fiberglass for the woofer cavities and 1" foam for the mid tunnel.

2. If you use PE's foam, 6 sheets should be plenty.

3. Doubling 1" foam should work but it'll be expensive compared to just buying 2" foam.

4. Nothing goes on the back of the front baffle. The goal is to prevent any sound wave reflections from bouncing back into the rear of the driver. Line everything you can see when looking through the front baffle woofer cut out holes. This applies to the woofers only.

5. 3M #77 works great!

If you search the build threads you'll find lots of tips, tricks and answers. It's tedious, but they're there. If you can't find the information you need, post the question in your build thread and it'll be answered.

Good luck with the build! We're looking forward to following along with you.

Jim

[BusbyGT]

All the parts are in. Given the rain holds off, I'll be building all the boxes this weekend.

Quick question: Anybody see anything wrong with this crossover layout for the woofers? I can't tell if the inductors are too close or not.



The perf board is 4 1/2" by 6". The 3 barrier strip is input, the 5 strip will be for both woofers.

[BusbyGT]

And while I'm here:

Midrange crossover:



Tweeter crossover:



I miscalculated my barrier strips on my PE order. Luckily RadioShack has though for around the same cost and there are plenty of RadioShacks around me.

I was worried the 4 1/2" x 6" perf board wasn't big enough to hold all the cap components but it seems like it can. And yes, I'm doing separate boards for the woofers, mids, and tweets in the minis and centers because well, I think it makes things easier.

A few questions have come up recently:

1) Is the tweeter mounted with the terminals towards the top? I'm assuming that is how it goes.

2) The page mentions recessing the drivers....does that mean flush mount or would cutting the outer speaker diameter in the 1/2" and then the inner diameter in the 3/4" sheet?

[Jim Holtz]

And while I'm here:

Midrange crossover:



Tweeter crossover:



I miscalculated my barrier strips on my PE order. Luckily RadioShack has though for around the same cost and there are plenty of RadioShacks around me.

I was worried the 4 1/2" x 6" perf board wasn't big enough to hold all the cap components but it seems like it can. And yes, I'm doing separate boards for the woofers, mids, and tweets in the minis and centers because well, I think it makes things easier.

A few questions have come up recently:

1) Is the tweeter mounted with the terminals towards the top? I'm assuming that is how it goes.

2) The page mentions recessing the drivers....does that mean flush mount or would cutting the outer speaker diameter in the 1/2" and then the inner diameter in the 3/4" sheet?

Your crossovers look very clean. We can't tell anything about the wiring but they look nice. Now to your questions:

1. It doesn't make any difference if the ribbon terminals are on the top or bottom. Position them the way that works best for you. I usually position mine on top.

2. All of the drivers should be flush mounted whether you position the 1/2" MDF on the inner or outer front baffle. Do not recess the drivers, just flush mount.

Jim

[BusbyGT]

Soldering is to be done this weekend. Nothing is currently connected. I was more wondering about the inductor spacing than whether it was connected properly. I'm an E.E. so if I screw up this, I just need to quit my job and go flip burgers or something. I've got to get more perf board tomorrow for the other 6 boards I have to do (3 for center, 3 for the other mini). This may seem like overkill but I just personally believe that if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it right the first time.

So no issues with the inductor spacing? It looks fine with about 3 or so inches between but you can't really change the mounting to effect field direction with those.

And wow is the center channel Xover inductor for the woofer stage massive. PE also had to ship it to me in its own box with nothing else in it!

Also, on Curt's page, the Xover network image shows C3021 to be 80 uF but the BOM only lists 68 uF caps and no 80 uF caps. I'm sure its been mentioned before but, the BOM is the most current right? Also, the statement center shows C2021 as the 68 uF and both C3021 and C2021 both have the same function so I'm assuming the network for the Mini Statements are just outdated. If it wasn't 2:15 AM I'd model the networks with a 68 uF and a 80 uF and see which most closely resembles the posted response curves.

[David_D]

Inductor Placement

[Jim Holtz]

So no issues with the inductor spacing? It looks fine with about 3 or so inches between but you can't really change the mounting to effect field direction with those.


Also, on Curt's page, the Xover network image shows C3021 to be 80 uF but the BOM only lists 68 uF caps and no 80 uF caps. I'm sure its been mentioned before but, the BOM is the most current right? Also, the statement center shows C2021 as the 68 uF and both C3021 and C2021 both have the same function so I'm assuming the network for the Mini Statements are just outdated. If it wasn't 2:15 AM I'd model the networks with a 68 uF and a 80 uF and see which most closely resembles the posted response curves.

Inductor spacing is always tough to get as much space as I like but you just do the best you can. I've attached a diagram that helps.

Nope, the crossover networks and BOM's are correct and up to date. There's also a 12 uF cap listed in the BOM with no place to go. Parallel the 68 uF and the 12 uF for the correct value. Jantzen didn't have a 80 uF value so I paralleled them to create the correct one. Sorry I didn't indicate that in the notes on the BOM.

Things are looking good!

Jim

[BusbyGT]

Gotcha. Hopefully I'll still have room for adding the 12 uF cap.

Unfortunately it looks as if the weather here won't cooperate this weekend (rainy and humid if it isn't raining) so I'm going to delay building the boxes a week. I might go ahead and do the necessary soldering just to get a step ahead.

Based on those diagrams and that page, it is going to be a pain to get these inductors to cooperate. But I'm looking at the layout of somebody else's crossover and the spacing seems about the same. I can't get 7" on separation but 4 inches should be achievable.

[BusbyGT]

So I need to find a roundover bit for the front baffle. Does the cutting length need to be 1 1/4" or larger or will a 1" cutting length be ok?

What's a good online place to get a bit?

Would http://www.woodline.com/p-1401-round...-12-shank.aspx work ok?

Any suggestions?

[BigguyZ]

I have the 1-1/4" roundover bit from woodline. Works really well. If you're routing with a hand router, and not a table, it's important to be very careful. Run it at the lowest speed on your router, and see if you can't get a base that will provide more surface area to rest the router on. Also, take at least 2, if not 3, passes to make the roundover.

From what I've heard/ been told, the larger the roundover the better. But make sure you measure your router opening, as that may limit how big you can go.

[BusbyGT]

It is a handheld router not a table router. I'm just unsure on whether the length needs to match/be greater than the thickness of the front baffle. My thought is that the length needs to equal the baffle thickness so you get a nice roundover from the joint I don't feel like spending the $60 for the Porter Cable bit from Home Depot.

Now, I should also be able to have both baffles side by side and do them both at the same time, if I am correct (3/4" radius means 3/4" on both sides). I'd make sure to secure both pieces for stability and such. I'm not a complete woodworking novice but nowhere close to a woodworking wizard.

[BigguyZ]

The bit will cut on both sides, but I'm not sure what you mean about doing both at one time- you want to only route one edge at a time. And even then, you want to take multiple passes- even on a smaller bit.
Here's a good review on router cutting direction. http://www.newwoodworker.com/rtrfeeddir.html


As far as the radius goes, I wouldn't see how the length would affect the finishing process either way. As far as I know- it's more a matter of the look and the effect the baffle has to the sound of the drivers. A larger radius means that the edge doesn't create as dramatic an effect on the sound wave hitting the baffle... (again, so I've been told).

[David_D]

Hi Busby,
that bit will be fine. Seems about par for cost.

[BusbyGT]

What I mean is basically have 2 pieces with enough gap for the router to go between them. If it were to work, it'd minimize time. Then again though, maybe it will be best to just do them one at a time.

[David_D]

Do them one at a time. The theory works but the two vertical walls would need to be perfectly parallel at the diameter of the bearing. I don't think one could do it with wood. It would hard enough to get that spacing with ground steel for the length that it needs to be. You will end up with tight spots that you would have to push through, marking the sides with the bearing, and loose spots that the cutter will chatter. Be safe. Not to mention the thickness of the cabinet would have to identical so the router base lays flat on both. Not worth the time savings.

[BeerParty]

What I mean is basically have 2 pieces with enough gap for the router to go between them. If it were to work, it'd minimize time. Then again though, maybe it will be best to just do them one at a time.

Definitely do them one at a time. Most of your time will be spent with setup - installing the bit, clamping your boxes to the table, etc. Even with multiple passes (I would suggest at least 3 passes, starting with ~1/4 inch deep cut and increasing ~1/4 inch each pass) the actual cutting time on the wood is small. If you put the boxes side by side and try to cut two sides at once, you will either overload your router, bind up the bearing, or both.

What you can do is position the boxes so that while you are routing one baffle, the other box is supporting the outboard side of the router. With a large bit like the 3/4 inch round-over you are using, adding support to help control the router would make things much easier.

Edit - Looks like David posted while I was typing - sorry about the redundant reply.

[vinceb]

Even with multiple passes (I would suggest at least 3 passes, starting with ~1/4 inch deep cut and increasing ~1/4 inch each pass) the actual cutting time on the wood is small. If you put the boxes side by side and try to cut two sides at once, you will either overload your router, bind up the bearing, or both.

Good advice, maybe essential. Also I seem to recall that 3/4" roundover bit asks for a speed control if you don't have a variable speed router since the bit is so heavy and might not like full speed on a router. I have this paranoid image of a large chunk of carbide-tipped steel careening into my thigh that always motivates me to dig out the speed control 8O

[BusbyGT]

New question: Is a 1/2" roundover enough for the front baffle? I bought the 3/4" bit but the router I have available only accepts a 1/4" shank and well, they just don't make a 3/4" roundover with a 1/4" shank.

I'd rather go with a 1/2" roundover as opposed to buying a new router.

[Jim Holtz]

New question: Is a 1/2" roundover enough for the front baffle? I bought the 3/4" bit but the router I have available only accepts a 1/4" shank and well, they just don't make a 3/4" roundover with a 1/4" shank.

I'd rather go with a 1/2" roundover as opposed to buying a new router.

I think the differences would be minimal and I doubt they would be audible.

Jim

[David_D]

If your intention is to veneer...
You may have trouble trying to wrap around a 1/2" r.
If you're set on it. Buy some veneer softener.

[BusbyGT]

I'm not attempting to/intending to veneeer right now. Probably going to stay plain MDF for now.

That's good to know though.

Now let's see how Woodline's return policy is and if not, anybody need a 3/4" roundover bit with a 1/2" shank?

Box build starts tomorrow morning. Probably won't take too many pictures of the actual build process but will definitely take some afterwards and of the finished crossovers.

[BusbyGT]

All the big sheets are cut down into the pieces. I took a few pics with my phone I'll upload later. Going to get a circle cut guide now and then going to make the necessary cut-outs and then start assembly.

That is a bunch of wood! I ended up getting a whole sheet of 1/2" MDF and only needed half a sheet for both the center and mini-statements (I had Lowes cut the sheet in half and didn't even touch half of it). Oh well!

So for what's left to do:

1) Cut holes for ports, speakers, etc.
2) Assemble boxes
3) Solder together the crossovers
4) Mount the crossovers
5) Wire everything up
6) Install and secure the drivers

Might have to be a 2 day build!

[BeerParty]

Might have to be a 2 day build!

Only 2 days? I started over 2 weeks ago and I am still gluing up the boxes!

Good luck, and don't forget to post pictures.

[BusbyGT]

I'm gonna "cheat" and use finishing nails to help with the glue setting and such. I'm not going for a picture perfect woodworking so the whole glue and then clamp doesn't appeal to me. Plus this is how I've done other boxes before and i couldn't notice a difference.

New question which is more for the record: In the cut diagram E and G say the holes need to match the port used. I'm assuming E should be the OD of the port tube (3") and G should match the flare since the bottom most G is getting the flare attached to it. That sound right?

[Jim Holtz]

I'm gonna "cheat" and use finishing nails to help with the glue setting and such. I'm not going for a picture perfect woodworking so the whole glue and then clamp doesn't appeal to me. Plus this is how I've done other boxes before and i couldn't notice a difference.

New question which is more for the record: In the cut diagram E and G say the holes need to match the port used. I'm assuming E should be the OD of the port tube (3") and G should match the flare since the bottom most G is getting the flare attached to it. That sound right?

Yes, that is correct.

Jim

[BusbyGT]

Day 2 will commence in the morning.

Holes are cut for the baffles in the 1/2" and 3/4" pieces for the minis. I've got to do the base pieces, the inner brace cutouts and then the holes for all the center channel stuff.

Once that is done, we'll clean it all up and begin assembly. This may have to go into the next weekend to get done. Depends on how much gets done tomorrow.

[BusbyGT]

Day 2 is over and well, all the cuts, holes, etc. are cut in the wood and everything is labeled and ready for assembly next weekend. The holes that were left took longer than thought.

So now for the pictures (sorry for any quality issues....I used my phone to take them)

All cut up from the sheets:



The bigger pieces leaning waiting for holes to be cut:



Baffles and sides and such after the holes were cut out today:



Stack of the base pieces and internal bracing. And yes, that is burnt MDF on the braces. Nothing like the smell of burnt MDF! The holesaw would cut so for long before burning it up. Was definitely interesting:



Back of my truck with all the pieces and some scrap there. Was before we relocated all the pieces into the garage for storage this week:



Stacked and stored for the week:







I'm making these up at my parents since I don't have the tools or space to do it so my dad is going to clean up some of the holes during the week this week and hopefully get them assembled next weekend. Still have to figure out the best way to do the flush mounting though.

[vinceb]

On the flush mounting, the only practical way to do it is with a router and circle cutter, or a template cutting router bit and make a template for the hole sizes you need, might be easier when you have cut the holes already. Look on this page at the pattern/trimming bit with the bearing at the top so you can follow a template. Then just make a piece of mdf (the thickness needs to be right so the bearing can ride on the mdf and not cut too deep. You might want a 1/2" depth of cut router bit for a 3/4" mdf template, then you could cut from 0-1/2" deep) with the right size hole (and this is where it will be easy to make sure you have the right size since you can test your template around the drivers to make sure it's right before cutting. Clamp the template to the baffle in the right location, run the router around at the right depth and you're good.

If you don't do the template technique you might have to tack a piece of mdf to the back and fill in the holes with scrap so you can re-drill the center hole and do the recess the usual way. I have done it this way and it wasn't the end of the world. Actually it was when I did the recess but then couldn't figure out how to cut the veneer later, so I stuck the cut circles back in before veneering and held them in place with some scraps tack-glued to the inside of the cabs, then veneered, then re-cut the holes in the veneer. It worked but there are easier ways.

What finish are you using? If it's veneer you should cut a little less deep so the veneer will add to the depth.

After veneering you can re-cut the recess in the veneer with this handy concoction I found somewhere on here:

Image not available

It takes a lot of grinding on the bit to get it shallow, not a lot of fun but just don't lose it and you should have a speaker-veneer-recess cutter for life.

[BusbyGT]

Well I'm not planning to veneer. If anything I'll paint it up eventually. Veneer is nice but a nice dark gray color would match my TV stand and is more than enough for me. Hell I still have my sub box pure MDF and I made it about a year and a half ago. It just doesn't bother me to have them MDF or just painted. Plus I'm single and don't have to worry about other's opinions for appeal factors (at least not yet).

If I remember reading properly, the flush mount is more than aesthetics but its also mildly acoustical. Is that accurate?

[BusbyGT]

So the project is on hold from now until at least April 11th. I've got to move apartments this week followed by a 2 week trip to Taiwan. The plan is to put the pieces of MDF that are flat attached (i.e. the 1/2" and 3/4" baffle, the 3 base pieces) together while I'm gone and start to clean up the holes and make sure they are nice and smooth together.

Once I get back, it'll be assembly, flush mount, finishing the crossovers and see them in action!

[BusbyGT]

Ok. So I forgot about cabinet spikes/feet. Luckily it's not too late to incorporate these in.

Any suggestions? I used the Dayton Audio spikes from PE on my subwoofer box I built a bit ago and they are alright but wanted some suggestions before I just purchased them again. Are the products offered by Madisound any better? Another source for these?

[Jim Holtz]

Ok. So I forgot about cabinet spikes/feet. Luckily it's not too late to incorporate these in.

Any suggestions? I used the Dayton Audio spikes from PE on my subwoofer box I built a bit ago and they are alright but wanted some suggestions before I just purchased them again. Are the products offered by Madisound any better? Another source for these?

Just about any of the spikes sold by any retailer will work fine. The open back channel on the rear of the base will allow the port to breate so take your pick.

If I remember reading properly, the flush mount is more than aesthetics but its also mildly acoustical. Is that accurate?

I see this question wasn't answered from a previous post. Yes, flush mounting the drivers is for audible benefit as well as aesthetic.

HTH

Jim

[BusbyGT]

So I vastly underestimated the time that this project would take, primarily due to my business travel, family stuff, and other misc. time consuming tasks (new girlfriend).

However, it is now finally complete. I ended up going with a latex semi-gloss paint and I think it was the right choice. They turned out really nice and I couldn't be happier.

I've had them connected for about a week now and they are absolutely amazing. The sound just surprises me constantly.

Here are misc. picture updates throughout the process.

Assembled cabinet minus base:



Bases assembled:



Rough fit cabinet on base. Not attached yet:



Assembled, primed and ready for paint:



Assembled, primed and ready for paint:



Center channel assembled and ready for paint:



Painting:



That was coat Forum of 3:



In my apartment finally!



So here's all the crap I went through:

• Wrong size holes for speakers
• Misaligned holes for speakers
• Wrong dimensions for the center channel
• Router mishap during the rounding of the edges
• Multiple rounds of wood filler
• Changing paint sprayers (Yes I sprayed latex paint...it ended up working really well actually).
• Last minute addition of the spikes and rubber feet for the center (luckily it was easy)
• Center channel not fitting vertically in my TV case. I had to remove a shelf for it to fit.
• Numerous other things that I can't remember.

[bigbardmusiq]

Its been a couple days now, we can't wait to hear what you think of the sound!! fill us in... :T