"The Cheapskate" world tour 2004!

[ThomasW]

Okay the little unit has been run-in for more than a week, so I think it's ready for auditions. arty:

If you want to have it sent to you, post here with you email addy (encode it so only people can read it).

Keep it a week, then send it onto the next person inline.

The unit itself weighs in at approx 20lbs. So double boxed for shipping it will be close to 23-24lbs. People should plan on about $1/lb for shipping inside the USA.

It's fine with me if it travels to Canada. I have no idea as to what customs will do with something that's not a gift, or a product for sale. If it goes to Canada whoever sends it up there should use USPS, not UPS.

Message for anyone feeling the need to permanently adopt the unit. :frypan:

Also would people please post their impressions and reviews of the unit to this thread?

Thanks
Thomas

[PMazz]

I'm in for the east coast leg of the tour. I had to put off getting involved in the high end unit you guys are doing as my PC went up in smoke and needed replacement, but this would be the ideal tryout for the souped up one I will eventually build (unless this one is so damned good I wind up building a couple).

BTW, great idea and many thanks for the offer to send it around. :T

pete_mazz at comcast dot net.

Pete

[David Meek]

I'm in on the Texas leg of the tour. :T

That's a bummer 'bout the PC Pete.

[Eduardo]

I would like to hook up my RPTV and DVD player. Curios to know if I can see the differance.


Either way, I'm in for the east coast tour. My e-mail address is listed in my profile. Or Click on my name and select e-mail.

[Al Garay]

Shipping is 1/4 the cost, you might as well build it.

Al

[Cowanrg]

any way it can start right here in denver? ill skip the shipping and just pick it up

[David Meek]

Shipping is 1/4 the cost, you might as well build it.

Al, I'm planning on building the larger version if my demo of the Cheapskate turns out to be positive. Shipping most assuredly isn't 1/4 the cost of that one.

[ThomasW]

any way it can start right here in denver? ill skip the shipping and just pick it up

Robert,

As soon as I get the next version of this finished (the so callled "Big Unit", dual transformers), you can drop down and borrow the "Cheapskate Plus".

[Cowanrg]

sounds good. i only need a couple days to check it out.

[ThomasW]

As soon as David checks his email, the 'tour' will begin .......... :B

[Cowanrg]

Thomas,

speaking about checking emails... you havent returned mine yet i was wanting to get some things from PE.

[ThomasW]

Just an FYI for those in the 'tour'

As a reference, sending the 22 lb pkg from Denver to Houston (1120 miles) UPS ground is $17.70

David will be getting the box the end of next week. When he's done, it probably makes the most sense to send it to Eduardo, then on to Pete.

[Cam McFarland]

Thomas............what is this "unit"?


Am I to presume its a sub.....

Oh yeah..........I am in Houston as well...........

[ThomasW]

Hi Cam,

The unit is a balanced power transformer. Subs (at least the one's I build) would be little too expensive to ship around the country .... :wink:

It's talked about in the big tread titled Cheapskate DIY balanced power device All the pertinent data is on THIS WEBSITE

UPS picked up the unit about an hour ago so it's on it's way to Houston
Tracking number 1Z 800 X74 03 3936 6741

If you want to audition it no problem. Just contact David Meek, it's headed to his house first.

[David Meek]

Huh? What? I don't know nuthin' about it.

Cam, I'll be happy to run the BPS by your house once I'm through with it. I'll drop you a PM when I'm close to finishing up.

[Cam McFarland]

Hi Cam,
The unit is a balanced power transformer. Subs (at least the one's I build) would be little too expensive to ship around the country .... :wink:

Hey Thomas...........thought you were safe here, huh? :rofl:


I did a search for "little unit" before I posted & couldnt find
anything.

I actually got to thinking about this after I replied....20#s would not be
a very large sub, especially as you say, one of yours.......



Thanks for the offer David, PM me & i'll get back to ya. :T

[David Meek]

Christmas came early. . . .

Hey, hey! Guess what was sitting in the foyer when I got home last night? A really nifty (yes, that's a word) looking BPU!!!! I'm going to hook it up tonight to let it warm up and start listening/looking Saturday. As I have two outlets at my disposal, I'll first test the CD transport and DAC combination, and then later, I'll test the DVD player. My initial thoughts are to plug the BPU straight into the wall outlet. However, for anal-retentiveness' sake, could the BPU be run off of a surge protector or would that potentially cause problems?

I'll have to read up on my Yamaha receiver's power requirements to see if I can run the RX-V1 off the BPU - I'm assuming that I can't, but we'll see. Same on the Pioneer Elite 610 RPTV - I don't know if the BPU will handle the draw, but again, I'll look it up before considering any testing. I'll keep y'all posted on how things are going.

One more time: THANKS THOMAS! ;x(

[ThomasW]

Great timing, just in time for the weekend .... :T

Nope don't plug a receiver into it. They're a dynamic load, and can quickly exceed the 800VA rating of the transformer. Receivers will benefit from BP, but you'd need a much larger transformer like the 2000VA unit we're using in THIS THREAD

Checkout the CD-ROM included with the unit. It has lots of info/data/suggestions about using the PBU.

Yes you can either plug the BPU into a surge unit, or plug an outlet strip with surge into the BPU.

Have fun..........

[PMazz]

Hey Tom, any chance of giving us power conditioning noobs some guidelines for testing this puppy. Maybe a standardized run of tests to compare notes later on?

Should the TV and DVD player be tried together or seperately? I assume most multichannel amps are too much. How about the CD player and processor? Together, seperate, does it matter?

Perspiring minds need to know.....

Pete

[ThomasW]

Hi Pete,

Shipping with the unit is a CD-ROM. On the CD is lots of info about using the BPU.

Other than that it's really a matter of experimentation. Any number of components can be plugged in, up to the limits of the 800VA transformer. And generally speaking the more devices that are plugged in the better the sound or picture

The individual filters provide some isolation between the outlets. If one is using a pre/pro then it and a DVD/CDP/DAC can go one one outlet. TV, projectors, active XO's and other stuff can share the other.

As previously noted receivers and power amps of any kind should not be plugged in. They are a dynamic load= variable amounts of amperage are drawn depending on loudness and as a result can quickly overload the transformer.

What BP does is lower the noise floor of the AC line via what's called "common mode rejection". So the 'benefit' of using BP is that there's less AC line noise pollution.

Since the unit has 2 filters, that helpss prevent 'noisey' devices (DVD/CDP or any device that has a digital switching power supply) from dumping noise from their power supplies backward through the AC line into the other components.

The amount of benefit one sees or hears is somewhat dependent on how 'clean' one AC line is, and how clean the power supplies in the equipment are.

My gear is run off a dedicated line that already has the 2-66lb isolation transformers and full surge protection on it. Even with that stuff 'cleaning' the AC power in front of BP units, their addition makes a nice improvement.

Finally the amount of improvement is doing to be system dependent. Any improvement one hears or sees, will of course be dependent on the resolving power of the gear being used. So if one is using a home-theater-in-a-box; obviously that kind of system inherently lacks the ability to discriminate inner details of audio.

At my place the analog cable feed is noisey, so it starts out with a Mondial MAGIC box on it. When the BP is added to the mix there's a significant improvement in PQ.

The effects of BP are cumulative, and at this point I have some form of BP unit on every single piece of equipment in both my HT and family room systems. That's how important I think it is. Most of my BP gear is close to 5 yrs old and the pricing for it now is $pendy. So for future equipment add-ons/upgrades, I needed some lower cost options. Which of of course the reason these DIY projects were started.

Finally the reason I created the touring unit is because people consider things like this to be a "tweak", and therefore subject to placebo effect. Now BP is founded in solid science/engineering not audiophile babble, pseudo-science. But I'm certain that some people will not hear/see any benefit from using BP. So the tour is a pretty painless way for people to audition for about $20.

[JonMarsh]

Thomas............what is this "unit"?


Am I to presume its a sub.....

Oh yeah..........I am in Houston as well...........

Now, can you imagine what ground shipping for the AS-15 or the dual BPD-1503 tube woofer would run? Whooooo Boy! Of course, they're not a "little unit", either!

Even shipping a "standard" pair of M8 two ways around would run to a bit of coin.

Boy, it's good to be back from Singapore! Drinkin' my first latte in two weeks!

~Jon

[David Meek]

Relocating Posts From Another Thread

FYI, I'm about to relocate my posts on in-house use of the Cheapskate to this thread.

[David Meek]

Set-up And Initial Impressions

Since I'm the first to get a crack at the Cheapskate, I thought I'd post my impressions as I go along. Just to be thorough, here's the complete equipment list involved in the tests - I've included links where available. The units that will be plugged into the Cheapskate for testing are:

the CD transport:
Yamaha CDR-S1000

the DAC:
Musical Fidelity AC3.24

the turntable and cartridge:
Nottingham Analog Horizon w/Rega RB250 tonearm
Grado Reference Sonata cartridge

the phono stage:
Musical Fidelity X-LPS vII

the DVD:
Panasonic DVD-RP91K

the RPTV:
Pioneer Pro Elite 610, 58", 16:9

Items that will be static, ie. no configuration change (not plugged into the Cheapskate) during my tests are:

the receiver - yes a receiver,but it's a good one as far as receivers go:
Yamaha RX-V1

the speakers:
Aerial Acoustics 7Bs

the speaker cables:
MIT Terminator 4s in a bi-wire configuration

the interconnects:
CATCables SilverCats - DAC to receiver
CATCables SilverCoax - CD to DAC
CATCables SilverCoax - DVD to receiver
CATCables Tigress component video - DVD to RPTV

the surge protector/filter:
VansEvers Model 100/14

The CD transport sits on a glass sheet which in turn rests on 6 Vibra-Pod isolation devices. The turntable sits on a Symposium Svelte Shelf isolation platform. All components (except the RPTV) sit on a Lovan Classic II equipment rack which has all legs filled with steel shot. Both Aerial speakers sit on Sound Design isolation stands.

I'm still not sure about plugging the RPTV into the Cheapskate as I haven't found the service manual yet. Once I find it, I'll know if it's too much of a draw or not. More later. . . .

I'm doing my own power cable switching at this time. Later, I'll have Aaron or Jen do the switching for me in a blind set-up. Again, more later. . . .

I'm using music that I'm VERY familiar with. The CD's are
Fleetwood Mac, Tusk
- Sisters Of The Moon
- Beautiful Child
Fleetwood Mac, The Dance
- Landslide
- Silver Springs
Vaughan Williams
- Symphony #7, Synfonia Antarctica

Okay, that's all out of the way. So here we go.

First off, it's a solid little bugger! Twenty pounds sounds like a moderate amount of weight, but when you stuff it in an 8" x 8" box with no give or play noticable in any of the parts, it's impressive. I know it's a purely subjective POV, but if it's heavy/solid/inflexible in build, that's a big plus for me. This little guy qualifies all the way around. I'm testing my CD and DAC first. I've had the Cheapskate plugged in for 24 hours and have had music playing through the system for a couple of hours to make sure everything is running at a stable operating temperature. The differences so far are, in general, small with one exception. The detail is enhanced in most instrumental passages. The tiny background guitar picks in the first minute of Beautiful Child become very distinct, clearly highlighting the "bend" that Lindsey Buckingham puts in them. This bend was almost unoticable before. Strings in the Antarctica Symphony have a more palpable and in-the-room-with-you feel to them. Stevie Nicks' vocals are a touch more "solid". Mick Fleetwood's drums have a touch more strength to them on the front of the strike and a longer decay on the back side. Cymbals have a tiny bit more detail to them which adds a more natural feel to them. I know that I'm using a lot of minimalist words and feely concepts, but that's how I'm perceiving the changes I'm hearing. The ones listed ARE all small and detail-oriented, but they ARE changes, and changes for the better. The one large thing I mentioned earlier is more of a composite of all the small changes than anything. It amounts to a lack of noise, or a better way to put it is a quieter background that allows you to hear further into the musical detail. You hear a minute amount more of each note, starting a fraction earlier and lasting a fraction longer which mimics more fully the actual sound you would be hearing if the instruments were themselves played in front of you.

Enough for now. I'll be back. . . . :later:

[David Meek]

Noise Floor Readings

Here ya go Bruce,

I set the Radio Shack analog SPL meter to slow response, c-weighted, and used the 60 dB setting (most sensitive). I set the meter on a tripod that left the sensor 3 inches from the face of the tweeter. I made absolutely sure there was no disc in the CD transport, and then turned the volume on the RX-V1 up to 0 (full tilt boogie ). With the CD and DAC off the Cheapskate, I got a -9 dB reading. IOW, the needle barely moved off the -10 dB setting on the far left of the dial - but it did move and it was constant. I plugged both components into the Cheapskate and repeated the operation. The needle never moved off the -10 dB setting. Nothing. Nada. Zip. So, there is at least a one decibel difference between the Cheapskate and my standard surge-protected house-power. It might be more, but the meter wouldn't read any lower. I tried the meter on both channels and got the same reading from both. I tried this on the mid-range and then the bass drivers and got zero from the Cheapskate powered run, and as close to zero from the non-Cheapskate run as to not matter.

The old "ear" test was simpler. With the components run off my standard setup, I could barely hear a hiss with my ear about 3 inches from the tweeter face. Very quiet, very innocuous. Not a harsh sounding noise, just a very mild hiss. With the components run off the Cheapskate there was nothing audible. Period.

Just out of curiousity, I'm going to do this again, but with the CD and DAC plugged straight into a wall outlet instead of the VansEvers surge protector/filter.

[robertwb70]

put me on the SE leg(central florida) of the tour please- robertwb-at-tampabay.rr.com

[Cam McFarland]

David met me today & made the first handoff...Thanks David.... :T

Stopped on my way home & bought 6" sewer pipe for latest sub. I felt
pretty silly in my front yard washing sewer drain pipe , lmao.

While I was at Lowes buying the pipe & other stuff, I got a phone
call from an individual wanting to buy my race bike, he came to the house
& I spent an hour or so with him (sure hate to see it go), then proceeded to continue working on my latest sub.......all in all it was a great day!!

Now here it is after nine & have not even opened the box, but I'll rip
into it tomorrow & check it out.

Dont expect my report to be as in depth as David's, it will be more of a
"newbie's" version..... :B

[David Meek]

Wrapping Up

Hey Cam, it was good t' meet ya! :later:

The final few things I did with the Cheapskate just reinforced my earlier experiences with it.

I plugged the CD and DAC straight into the wall outlets (instead of my VansEvers surge protector/conditioner) and re-ran the "noise floor" test - no CD, volume to full, SPL meter on a tripod directly in front of the speaker(s) - this time I showed a consistent two dB of noise with slight movements up to 3 or 4 dB. Again, with the units plugged into my existing protector/conditioner I was getting a dB or so of noise. With them plugged into the Cheapskate, there was no reading at all on the 60 dB setting. Playing the review CDs through the transport and DAC with them plugged into the wall vs. the Cheapskate showed a more noticable difference. I've already describe the Cheapskate-based sound so enough on that. With the wall-power there was a very noticable lack of detail and an overall feeling of. . . dirt on the music. . . that's the best way I can describe it. It wasn't as pleasant or revealing, and I won't be listening like that again. :nonod:

The video portion of my testing was - as you can imagine - much more subjective. I thought I could see a slight improvement in PQ when watching a movie with regard to color saturation and a bit of detail enhancement, but it was small, if it was there. My aplogies for not being more precise here, but I have my AVIA and Digital Video Essentials DVDs out on loan (Drat! That wasn't very clever was it? :evil: ) so I wasn't able to run any of the test patterns. Oh well, after I build my BPU, I'll definitely re-test with the test patterns and let you know how things shape up.

In summation, I heard a small but definite improvement in music when power was furnished by the Cheapskate. I think I saw an improvement in the video, but that'll have to be re-visited later when I have test discs. The improvement I heard in the music was enough that I'll be building my own BPU here shortly. That is, after I spec it out fully, work out some technical details with Thomas and the other Poobahs, and (final step) get my Weller soldering station. More on all that at the time. . . .

It's been fun! And again, THANKS THOMAS!!!! :T

[Cam McFarland]

OK.....took me long enough, & as I said I am gonna give the "newbies"
opinion. I can't run any tests of the unit, & was not even able to do
a blind test.

I had the unit plugged into my Monster Bar HTS1000 that I have everything
plugged in to. I plugged my Mitsu 65" & DVD player into the cheapskate after
watching movies & unless I am nuts (depends on who you ask,lol) it seemed as though the colors were warmer & richer & there was NO background noise
in the parts I specifically listened to beforehand in order to check for this.

Like I said, a newbies opinion........ :B

Thank you Thomas, I feel we have a winner.........who is next???

[ThomasW]

Cam,

Glad you liked the results .......

Eduardo is next in line

[Cam McFarland]

Eduardo......check your inbox.

[Cam McFarland]

still waiting.......

[ThomasW]

Maybe Eduardo is traveling, don't really know.

Let's try Robert or Pete next

[Cam McFarland]

Robert.......

Check your inbox.

[Cam McFarland]

OK.....Pete, I know you are around....in order to keep this thing
going, check your inbox.

[robertwb70]

I have replied-for some reason I was logged out-I stay on automatic log in always so I don't know what happened

I look foward to checking this thing out

[PMazz]

Cam, I sent you my addy but if Robert wants it, send it to him.

Pete

[Cam McFarland]

I feel so wanted.....lol.


Both you guys have messages, it will be going to Robert as he was
first.... :W

[Cam McFarland]

OK....package was dropped off this AM before 11.

Here is UPS tracking number.........

1Z6E42200340128330

[robertwb70]

the cheapskate was waiting for me when I got home frrom school today-didn't get time to play yet though

[ThomasW]

Well what do you think? Or were you and it blown away by the hurricane? 8O

[robertwb70]

almost blown away-but not quite-just got electricity back but we were only out for 24 hours

In my system the cheapskate seems to make very little difference-but I "think" it did make a small improvement -in the volume all the way up/residual noise test it had no impact but during listening it seemed like the soundstage was just a little wider and more realistic with it online-but I sure wouldn't want to DBT it because the change was very subtle

I use a passive preamp(creek OBH-12) and since it won't handle an amp all I could try it on was the CD transport,DAC and the paradigm crossover-I also tried it on the TV,but I have a cheap walmart special so that too was hard to tell
so I think my system was just about the worst case scenario for testing but I still think it made an ever so slight improvement

whos next ?

[ThomasW]

Pete's next.

[PMazz]

Got the package today!! May get to play this weekend.

Pete

[PMazz]

So far I've had little time to play with the unit. I first plugged my RPTV into it but since I just tore it apart last week for a much overdue cleaning and calibration, I'm having a hard time evaluating any difference. I then moved it to music duty. Problem is, I can only run so much thru it w/o fear of over doing it. I plugged my amp and xover into it for a couple days and then the receiver and xover. Overall, I'd say things definitely improved, but it's hard to put a finger on exactly what. I'm certainly not going to go into flowery prose about it. I'm more of a "Listen to it hooked up for a while" kind of guy . It's still in this configuration, although I really haven't had enough chance to spend "quality time" with it. If nobody's that anxious, I'd like to hang on to it for a little while longer. I usually get more of a sense of what's going on when it is then out of the chain, after my ears have adjusted. I'd also like to give the video chain another shot as my eyes get adjusted to the recent changes to the RPTV.

If not, let me know and it'll be on it's way.

I was also thinking.....how about several of these instead of the Plitron unit? Any advantage of having things seperated on several "lesser quality" transformers instead of one that has to handle everything?

Pete

[ThomasW]

Pete,

At this point you're the last one on the list. I'm in no hurry to get it back, since there are 2 units just gathering dust in the basement. So feel free to play with it as long as you like.....

I have BP units from 3 different companies. As far as I can tell they all do the same thing, and do so equally well. That's one reason I started building "The Big Unit" with it's dual small transformers.

Excluding powering receivers or big power amps there's no reason to have the bigger transformers. I must say however the improvement continues having BP for amps/receivers as well.

When auditioning these kinds of 'tweaks'; I find that living with a device for a while, then removing it and listening minus the device, is an interesting test of it's efficacy