Please, No Laughing, Spitting or Throwing anything at the Noob

**BobEllis** · 30 January 2007, 10:00 Tuesday

I've bought them from All Electronics - a surplus parts dealer who seems to have them in stock now. The "41 Amp Feed Throug Terminal Strip" is what we want for speaker use. http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...al_Strips.html

**kingpin** · 30 January 2007, 22:25 Tuesday

In this design the tweeter is out of phase.
When running the wires from the drivers to the crossovers to the binding posts does it matter where this reverse happens?

Do I just change positive and negative at the driver, should it be at the crossover or at the binding posts?

Does it matter where?

Thanks
Mike

**soho54** · 30 January 2007, 22:37 Tuesday

You're over thinking now.

Relax, take a deep breath.

Go back to my crappy drawing. (your post 368 )

The positive from the binding post goes to Ct1 on the xover.
The negative from the binding post goes to the bottom on the xover schematic

The positive (top line) xover run gets connected to the negative side of the tweeter.
The negative (bottom line) xover run gets connected to the positive side of the tweeter.

All good?
EDIT

**soho54** · 30 January 2007, 22:47 Tuesday

Bump, to make sure you got the edit. I type too slow, and get ahead of myself sometimes.

**kingpin** · 30 January 2007, 22:48 Tuesday

Originally posted by soho54

You're over thinking now.

Relax, take a deep breath.

Go back to my crappy drawing. (your post 368 )

The positive from the binding post goes to Ct1 on the xover.
The negative from the binding post goes to the bottom on the xover schematic

The positive (top line) xover run gets connected to the negative side of the tweeter.
The negative (bottom line) xover run gets connected to the positive side of the tweeter.

All good?
EDIT

Hey.
Where did you come from all of a sudden. Are you my speaker wiring stalker. :rofl:

Thanks Jacob.

Since I got you here still, I hope.

I have 3 positive and 3 negative wires coming from the crossovers to connect to one binding post. I don't want to solder them to the post because I have to be able to remove the post for transporting.
I am thinking of running the 3 positive wires to 1 common wire to go to the positve side and the same for the negative.
Do I just solder the 3 wires to 1 and cover with heat shrink.
Can I just use a wire connector(marrette) like electricians do.

Thanks again buddy.

**soho54** · 30 January 2007, 23:05 Tuesday

I don't want to solder them to the post because I have to be able to remove the post for transporting.

If you are only going to keep it removable for a short time a marrette and a 1/4" female disconnect will do the trick.

To permanently keep it removable I would solder the 3 wires to 1 larger gauge wire, and cover with heat shrink. Then use the 1/4" female disconnect for removability. Using a larger gauge wire is not needed, just OVERKILL. :T

I want to see these things done. My wife is tired of seeing new speakers for a while, so I have to live vicariously through others right now. I keep my eye on the more adventurous ones. :B

**cjd** · 31 January 2007, 09:17 Wednesday

My own personal preference is to wire from the crossover "correctly" and then reverse the leads AT the tweeter, as the tweeter is a LOT easier to pull out and switch.

Which binding posts are you using again? I think you could leave the wiring IN the box and simply remove the wires at the terminal strips on the crossovers. Or are you saying the binding posts themselves need to be removed for transport? If this is the case, consider recessing them instead...

C

**kingpin** · 31 January 2007, 10:10 Wednesday

Originally posted by cjd

My own personal preference is to wire from the crossover "correctly" and then reverse the leads AT the tweeter, as the tweeter is a LOT easier to pull out and switch.

Which binding posts are you using again? I think you could leave the wiring IN the box and simply remove the wires at the terminal strips on the crossovers. Or are you saying the binding posts themselves need to be removed for transport? If this is the case, consider recessing them instead...

C

Being that these are so heavy and akward to move around I want to be able to remove the posts so they don't get broken when they are in transport.

I would of liked to recess the binding posts but because the speakers are inside the house right now it would not be a good idea to get the router running. Also the posts are maybe 1 1/4" deep so I would have to build something inside the box.

**cjd** · 31 January 2007, 10:51 Wednesday

Can you attach a nice heavy ring connector at the end of each wire and stack 'em on the binding post and bolt 'em down?

C

**soho54** · 31 January 2007, 11:35 Wednesday

They are found here "SUPREME POWER" BINDING POST

I think they only have a 1/4" tab. No pics from the back side. :huh:

**cjd** · 31 January 2007, 12:20 Wednesday

Oh, I thought these were binding posts, not little screw-down things that sit on the surface... hmmm...

**kingpin** · 31 January 2007, 14:31 Wednesday

This is the back of the connector.
Crappy pic and my batteries wore out but I think your ring terminal idea will work with a ittle modification.

Image not available

**soho54** · 31 January 2007, 15:15 Wednesday

If it's threaded on the back, slap some o-connectors on the ends of those three wires and torque'em down. :T

**WillyD** · 31 January 2007, 17:30 Wednesday

What Jacob said.

**kingpin** · 31 January 2007, 20:15 Wednesday

I have a friend coming over right now.
He is going to solder the 3 positive and 3 negative wires together and then solder 1 10 gauge wire to that which will go to the binding post.
It will all be tested with a continuity tester to make sure all is well.

**soho54** · 31 January 2007, 20:28 Wednesday

I would suggest doing it this way.

From right to left- high and mid wires joined, low and 10g, and the high/mid to 10g. The two big rectangles are the heatshrink points.

**kingpin** · 02 February 2007, 16:32 Friday

O.K. Here is my first and feeble attempt at soldering. :unsure:
I think this is the way Soho mentioned to wire it all together as per the diagram above.

The black wire is going to the binding post( + ).
Mid and High wires connected together on top to 10 gauge wire.
Low(rs270) bottom wire connected to end of same 10 gauge wire.

Image not available

Image not available

This pic below is a little embarrassing. After looking at it for a few minutes I think I will strip more wire so I can get a couple of revolutions around the 10 gauge wire.

Image not available

**soho54** · 02 February 2007, 17:22 Friday

Where's the heatshrink?

If you are using electrical tape I would suggest making sure the bare spots are spaced so that there is no way for them to come in contact with one another when stretched out.

Make the Mid/High connection further up so it can't come in contact with the Low 10g connection, when the wires are pressed together.

It's just good to think about these things when wiring. It wouldn't matter much if they touched, but you have to get into the habit so you don't miss it where it counts. :T

Make sense?

**kingpin** · 02 February 2007, 17:44 Friday

Originally posted by soho54

Where's the heatshrink?

If you are using electrical tape I would suggest making sure the bare spots are spaced so that there is no way for them to come in contact with one another when stretched out.

Make the Mid/High connection further up so it can't come in contact with the Low 10g connection, when the wires are pressed together.

It's just good to think about these things when wiring. It wouldn't matter much if they touched, but you have to get into the habit so you don't miss it where it counts. :T

Make sense?

I didn't put the heatshrink on yet so my work could be appreciated to it's fullest. :B

Is a good solder joint supposed to look shiny?
I thought I read this somewhere.

Thanks again Jacob.

**cjd** · 02 February 2007, 17:53 Friday

It takes a lotta heat to get wire that thick to take solder all the way through cleanly. It should indeed be shiny.

C

**Licinius** · 02 February 2007, 17:55 Friday

Yeah shiny is good, those... don't look so good =) , make sure its hot enough and the solder flows smoothly onto the joint, don't be afraid to let it really get in between the wires and such.

I especially wouldn't trust that lower one - I mean, whats another inch or two of solder after the insane amount of everything else thats gone into those beasts =).

for pictures http://www.bestinc.org/docs/Survival...soldering.html

**kingpin** · 02 February 2007, 18:05 Friday

Alright.
I am doing it again as this is getting kind of fun.
With wire this thick it is difficult to wrap it around another.

For all of you hardcore solder's I should let you know I am using a soldering gun 8O not an iron. Please don't think any less of me. :B

Stay tuned for attempt number 2.

**cjd** · 02 February 2007, 18:10 Friday

Soldering gun works when you need the wattage.

If that's not enough, break out the torch. You may need to get some flux and a brush as the rosin core burns off pretty fast with a torch.

In this case, heat soak is not going to be damaging components, so the only thing to worry about is whether you blow the soldering gun (been there...)

DO use third hands to hold stuff while you solder. It's going to be way too hot otherwise. And with stranded, sometimes you can untwist a bit, open up the strands, on both pieces, and kinda jam the one into the other and then retwist.

C

**Ecir38** · 02 February 2007, 19:16 Friday

Originally posted by cjd

And with stranded, sometimes you can untwist a bit, open up the strands, on both pieces, and kinda jam the one into the other and then retwist.

C

This is kinda what i was going to say, split the strands in half but don't twist them just yet. Leave them loose while twisting them around the solid piece you will soldering it too.

edit: it might be easier to take the insulation off a crimp connector, cut them in half crimp them together then solder.

**kingpin** · 02 February 2007, 19:18 Friday

Soldering gun is toast. wtf
I was having a hard time getting enough heat through the wires to get the solder to flow properly.
Off to the hardware store to find some big electrical connectors.

**digital desire** · 02 February 2007, 19:45 Friday

Get a better soldering gun! 240 watt or better.
Electrical connectors?

**cjd** · 02 February 2007, 20:20 Friday

Pshh. Soldering gun?

Torch it.

C

**kingpin** · 02 February 2007, 20:36 Friday

It may look crude but.......................it works for now.

Image not available

**cjd** · 02 February 2007, 20:38 Friday

Nothin beats a good solid mechanical connection

C

**jonathanb3478** · 03 February 2007, 05:29 Saturday

I am going to cast in with cjd. Solder it.

A small gun is not going to cut it with 10ga wire. As cjd predicted, the gun blew with an inexpert operator and too heavy a duty cycle.

For me, 10ga is nothing. I have created beautiful solder joints for gold plated terminals on 0ga automotive power wire. I used something just like this, but I do not think I had to pay that much. I bought mine a while ago, however.

Something like that and a little camping propane tank will make short work of 10ga wire. Come to think of it, maybe project overkill should skip the 10ga and just go directly to 0ga.

**digital desire** · 03 February 2007, 08:59 Saturday

You don't even have to get that wild. I have a little butane powered "crack head" torch with a built in pizo ignitor that is handy as hell for jobs like 2 gauge wire in the car stereo. Keep a bunch of heat shrink tubing on hand to make things cute after.

**wkhanna** · 03 February 2007, 09:42 Saturday

Originally posted by digital desire

a little butane powered "crack head" torch

LOL

Yep, that's what I was thinking would work well. I have one too, but have yet to cook with it. I have seen them for < $20 at the hardware stores. I might recommend attaching some type of clamp on the bare wire about 1/2 inch on both sides of the joint. This works as a heat sink, and will protect the wire insulation from burning or components from overheating when copious amounts of heat are required for lighting...err...I mean producing a good joint.

**cjd** · 03 February 2007, 10:03 Saturday

Kitchen torches are great for that, yup. I've cooked with mine, and I've even done silver soldering with mine (repaired a ring for my wife)

However, when I said a solid mechanical connection is good... he has that. It will not, however, have the benefits solder provides in preventing air/chemical penetration over time. Should be able to pull those nuts, grab a torch, heat things up, apply some solder, and be done with it though.

C

**kingpin** · 03 February 2007, 10:36 Saturday

Sorry to let you guys down.

But the solder joint is not happening right now. Not having the right equipment and the skill to do that properly yet, I will stay with the 8gauge marrettes for now. :T

Mike

**joecarrow** · 03 February 2007, 11:36 Saturday

They'll work just fine, as long as the wires get twisted together tightly and the wires are clamped tightly by the nut. In fact, some would argue that it can be even better, though less durable.

Something to watch out for- make sure that you're doing stranded to stranded, and there are no solid core wires (such as caps or inductors) involved. Those really want to get soldered, as the clamping action of the wire nuts just don't work very well with a single large body amidst the strands. That's just from experience I've had with some crimp tools, and a little messing around at home.

I think I saw you (or someone else?) using those screw-down terminal blocks to build a crossover. Those will work passably with a solid core, better than wire nuts or crimps- but it's still tough to get a good connection to a large solid core wire.

**kingpin** · 03 February 2007, 16:17 Saturday

Originally posted by joecarrow

They'll work just fine, as long as the wires get twisted together tightly and the wires are clamped tightly by the nut. In fact, some would argue that it can be even better, though less durable.

Something to watch out for- make sure that you're doing stranded to stranded, and there are no solid core wires (such as caps or inductors) involved. Those really want to get soldered, as the clamping action of the wire nuts just don't work very well with a single large body amidst the strands. That's just from experience I've had with some crimp tools, and a little messing around at home.

I think I saw you (or someone else?) using those screw-down terminal blocks to build a crossover. Those will work passably with a solid core, better than wire nuts or crimps- but it's still tough to get a good connection to a large solid core wire.

Thanks for your concern regarding the wiring Joe. :T
All 4 wires that are being connected are stranded. 3 12gauge and 1 10gauge wire.

Should I be putting a specific end, on the end of the wires which go into the terminal blocks, or is the bare wire alright????

**cjd** · 03 February 2007, 17:44 Saturday

Bare wire is fine - you should be set right now, really. Wire nuts can actually seal quite well indeed.

C

**kingpin** · 04 February 2007, 16:54 Sunday

I am wondering a little somethin' somethin' here.
For the time being I will be using the 2-12's in each speaker as a subwoofer until my next project "Tower of Power" :roll: starts.
But, they will not be hooked up to my Yamaha rxv-1600 through it's subwoofer output.
This is the way the speakers are being hooked up.

Image not available

Anybody think I am going to run into issues getting surround sound and other audio settings?

Mike

**cjd** · 04 February 2007, 19:55 Sunday

Turn subwoofer off on your amp and keep the mains set to "large" and I *think* it'll get all the LFE signal sent that way. Keep the rest set to "small"

C

**cjd** · 04 February 2007, 20:33 Sunday

by the way, have you listened to even just the core WWMTM yet?! :P

**kingpin** · 04 February 2007, 20:56 Sunday

Originally posted by cjd

by the way, have you listened to even just the core WWMTM yet?! :P

Chris. I am so screwed for time these days.
With the renovations going on in the new place I am moving, to these idiots who make the schedule at work half the time I don't know if I am coming or going. Today I learned that my father wants to sell his house also and it needs a fresh coat of paint.
As much as I want these to get done and finished I am so damn tired on an off day, it is tough to find more than a couple hours to work on them.
I basically work shift work from day to day and it's starting to take it's toll on me. I am burning the candle on both ends right now.
I worked at 7am today, 5:30am tomorrow, 1:30pm the following, and 10am the next. This kind of schedule really messes with you.

I wanted to work on them today but it look like it isn't going to happen.

BTW:
I was able to finish all the wiring and mounting the crossovers last night.

Images not available

**cjd** · 05 February 2007, 09:45 Monday

Ugh. I hear you on the work thing. My brain just started peeking to see if it wasn't at work late Sunday evening and by then I just had to tell it to go back into hibernation (speaking of which, this weather is... fun... but kinda chilly)

Take your time, don't worry about it.

C

**digital desire** · 05 February 2007, 10:45 Monday

I still can not get over the size of those things!
How much will the chopper cost to lower them in place? 8O

**kingpin** · 05 February 2007, 17:27 Monday

Wooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris= ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

Speechless and the subs aren't even hooked up yet.
:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

Sorry for being so excited.
I just hooked up the upper half and the baffle is not even glued down yet. Thw speaker is laying on it's back with the baffle laying on top and the drivers just sitting inside.

Just played DVD audio(Eagles-hotel California), Diana Krall-Look of love, Dire Straits-Money for nothing, and Metallica-Enter Sandman.

'Scuse me I have to go wipe some tears of joy.

Forever in debt
Mike

**WillyD** · 05 February 2007, 17:41 Monday

Fantastic...I love the enthusiasm!

Please, No Laughing, Spitting or Throwing anything at the Noob

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