Thinking of DIY NAS.... HELP!

[aud19]

Well exactly...I can't add it to the existing array unless I back everything up and recreate a new 4 drive array. Otherwise it will be a 3 + 1 with no redundancy on the +1. (Nevermind WTF I back 4TB on to! :lol: )

Not really ideal.

[PewterTA]

That's why you pay to play with hardware array. Just add drives and expand.

I was never one for it... now I know it was well worth the money for the controller. :B

[aud19]

With new twin boys and a suprise roof replacement all coming a couple months ago unfortunately I've not got anything to pay with :lol:

[Hdale85]

Just do the 3 drives and as it starts to fill up buy the 2tb or whatever size drives one at a time and then put them in when you get 3.

[aud19]

Got the drive today! :banana: Now I just need time to format our desktop/install Win8 and then build this server...

[aud19]

...and here we are back here again. Wife's actually on board with building something (wants to make sure we have space for all the pictures and vids of the kids!) so I'm back looking for pieces again.

Case - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811112339
HD - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-343-_-Product

Leaning towards this for the MB - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...scrollFullInfo

CPU - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819117301

Was hoping for something with on board CPU but they seem to go in and out of stock and lack things like USB3 or only max 8GB RAM etc

RAM - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-353-_-Product

PSU - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-063-_-Product


Still not sold on which software to use...

[Landspeeder]

Great Case & PSU!
Why the 2TB Drive for $115? For $180 you can net yourself a 4TB – and one with a proven history of low failure rates from some of the largest datacenters to smaller home NAS setups - HGST Deskstar NAS H3IKNAS40003272SN. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16822145912

I am 100% satisfied with:
OS: Unraid 5.05 Stable. This gives me a single disk failure protection with only a single parity drive and no loss of capacity on my other disks. Should more than 1 disc fail, all of the data is usable on the other disks. For $4/month I have automated cloud backups of any folders I choose on this machine to Crashplan via the crashplan plugin. Also, I believe one of the upcoming 6.0 features is to be able to use a 2nd drive for a redundant parity drive. You can add larger drives later without losing data, and your drives can be mixed size (so long as your parity drive is always your largest).
MB: $265 SuperMicro X7SPA-HF-D525 (With 6 SATA ports – run fully headless) http://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-X7S.../dp/B004OBYWFU
CPU: Atom D525 Integrated into Mobo - 1.8 Ghz Dual Core with Hyperthreading. 13 Watt.
Mem: Micron Memory - MEM-DR320L-CL02-SO13 - 2GB DDR3-1333 1Rx8 1.35v (4GB Total). 4 GB is OVERKILL for this server, even with file/folder caching running.
Boot: Lexar Firefly 2Gb via Onboard Internal Port
UPS: APC SMC1500 Smart-UPS
Fan1: 1x 140mm Noctua NF-A14 ULN
Fan2: 1x 140mm Noctua NF-S12A ULN

[aud19]

I've already got three 2TB drives. Need one more for a 6TB Raid 5 setup.

But that Unraid system is intriguing. If I was to buy a 4TB drive what am I looking at as capacity? I assume it would need to be the parity drive and I'd still have 6TB but this would allow me to easily up the capacity by either adding a 5th 4TB drive down the line and/or replacing a "fourth" 2TB drive (leaving me with 10TB or 8TB respectively). Is that correct? And it automatically rebuilds all of this when I swap/add drives?

I take it you recommend the HGST drive over the WD Red 4TB?

[Landspeeder]

Raid 5 is great... until you lose 2 disks at once :/ ... what a live and learn mistake.

One of things that I LOVE about unraid is that you can pull out ANY disk from the array and read the content in another computer... the drives do not need to be the same size, the capacity is easily expandable, and you can lose 1 disk without any data loss (like raid 5).

With only 2 TB disks you could purchase another 2 TB for the parity or the 4 TB - this will not affect your capacity but the 4 TB allows for easier capacity expansion down the road.
Fewer larger capacity drives = less noise, less heat, lower power usage, more expandability.
Your capacity is the value of all of your data disks.
With 3 2 TB data drives you would have 6 TB of storage.
With 3 2 TB and 2 4 TB data drives you would have 14 TB of storage.
Assuming you replace a 2 TB drive with a 4 TB drive you just need to start the array and rebuild via the web gui (really easy and intuitive - you type tower into your web browser at home then click on 1 button onscreen)
Assuming you add a 4 TB drive to your current array you add the disk via a drop down and rebuild the parity via the web gui. (this time you click on 1 drop down followed by 1 button onscreen - again very easy and intuitive).

Given that you have 3 2 TB drives, a case which accepts up to 7 drives, and if you go with my recommendation a motherboard that has 6 SATA ports I would go with the Plus license. This one is not free like the basic, but it allows you to use 6 array disks (1 Parity, 5 Data) and cache drive should you want even faster writes. A simple singe cheap Sata PCIe card will allow you to populate the 7th spot with a Cache drive, or even a hot spare data drive. The Plus key also allows you to setup private (password protected) shares.
The free key only allows 3 array devices (1 parity + 2 data), no cache (not really needed for most uses), and no private shares.

As of the last year or so I always take a HGST over WD and a WD over a Seagate in any given drive class.
Currently I have a HGST as my parity, a couple WD and a couple Seagates for data.

Before building your array you can run a preclear on all the drives (noting that this takes a LONG time). I run 3 preclears and have killed about 30% of the seagates drives I have done this on and about 5% of the HGST. I have never had a triple precleared drive fail on me in 7 years. This is at home, for friends and family, and for the MANY drives we use at work.

[Landspeeder]

FYI a preclear does take a typed command rather than a simple easy to use button - you can run up to 4 preclears at the same time.
1. gets a SMART report
2. pre-reads the entire disk
3. writes zeros to the entire disk
4. sets the special signature recognized by unRAID (which unRaid will automatically add if you do NOT preclear)
5. verifies the signature
6. post-reads the entire disk
7. optionally repeats the process for additional cycles (if you specified the "-c NN" option, where NN = a number from 1 to 20, default is to run 1 cycle)
8. gets a final SMART report
9. compares the SMART reports alerting you of differences.

[aud19]

Very interesting...

Yeah I'm having trouble finding a MB I'd like. The one you linked is nice (if a bit pricey) but still lacks USB3 and only has max RAM up to 4GB. Also is that even mini-ITX? I can't seem to find anything that has all three of my "wants" (on-board low watt CPU, 6xSATA, USB 3.0 and 8GB+ RAM) in a mini-ITX board.

What size disk do you need for the Cache disk? I have an older 160GB drive sitting around doing nothing...

I doubt I'll ever go beyond 6 discs (5x4TB drives and a cache disk would be 16TB with decent speed I'd imagine).

[Landspeeder]

The motherboard is definitely Mini-ITX

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/ATOM/ICH9/X7SPA-HF-D525.cfm

For me it was worth the cost. The IPMI with KVM allows me to check into the motherboard itself over the network (great for when I am traveling and need to check something with the wife and kids home and great for headless operation). EVERYTHING I need on this motherboard is compatible with unRaid out of the box. The LOW power draw means this thing stays cools and can run in idle on my UPS for a LONG time. The only (minor) downer is that the board does not support ECC ram.

Perhaps I am missing something – for what do you need greater than 4 GB of ram? 4 GB of ram is PLENTY for my main server – this has 6 4 TB drives (5 data) with just over 16 TB used. I use Cache Directories (which keeps every file location and name in memory so that browsing network shares does not require disks to be spun out of idle), and scheduled parity checks are no problem. The most use at once the machine has scene was 1 SD movie stream, 2 HD movie streams, 1 music stream, crashplan backup, Cache Directories, and writing to the machine at once – I had no stutter issues with this. I seldom have more than 2 computers writing to this machine at once. 4 GB is overkill for this machine - but I would not go less than 2 GB.

If I was still using Freenas/ZFS the 4 GB would be crippling for my use. If you move into MANY add-ons, virtualized containers within unraid, and MANY users then more than 4 GB makes sense (but then so does a much beefier CPU)

And why USB3?

The Cache drive is not needed – it is more a nice to have feature. IF you use a cache drive all writes to the NAS will be done to the cache, then once a day (or more often depending upon your setup) the cache contents will be moved to one of your array drives and parity protected. I use a SSD Cache on my 2nd virtualized unraid/windows8 with Steam host/Ubuntu 14.04 LTS unraid server – I do Not use a cache drive on my main server (then One I am recommending for you). But to answer your question the size of a cache drive depends on how much data you wish to write to the server in a 24 hour period – the drive will need to be larger than that. So long as the 160 GB drive is NOT a SSD, I suggest doing 3 pre-clears on it as well.

[Landspeeder]

Oh - and if you use a MAC AFP shares are very easy to create via the web gui.

[aud19]

I guess the 8GB+ is a leftover from when I was considering ZFS. That and RAM is relatively cheap and more is usually better. But if you feel 4GB is fine then...

USB3 I want for connecting external drives for backup/data transfer. I suppose it's not the end of the world but it would speed things up (as long as the OS supports it...right?).

So I should be able to use my 160GB (yup spinning discs) drive for the cache...nice (to have) Is it something that can be added later or must be in the initial setup? Just trying to understand why I wouldn't use it beyond energy consumption?

It looks like they have a slightly cheaper version with Intel graphics being the only difference I see available as well:

(Edit: it has the 510 rather than 525 processor as well)

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182233

Though this one appears to be the 525:

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=38_1244_505_957_506&item_id=047726

There's also this MB from Jetway that's quite similar but has USB3...unfortunately hard to find, particularly in Canada though.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153212&cm_re=JetWay_JNF99FL-525-LF-_-13-153-212-_-Product

[aud19]

Oh - and if you use a MAC AFP shares are very easy to create via the web gui.

We're a no Apple house :lol:

It will be serving a PC, Tablet (Android), a couple of smart phones and a WDTV live media box.

[aud19]

And just to clarify...

If I started out with a 3 drive (3x2TB) array with one of those drives as the parity drive and later purchased the 4TB drive, I could add it in and rebuild the parity on to the new drive. Correct?

I'd have 4TB to start with in that case, then 6TB with the new 4TB drive as the parity drive and the ability to expand storage from there by simply replacing 2TB drives with 4TB units.

[Landspeeder]

It will be serving a PC, Tablet (Android), a couple of smart phones and a WDTV live media box.

That certainly makes life a little easier . My wife has 2 apple products and a windows 8 laptop. I have an Ubuntu laptop, and a Virtualized server running a number of instances of Windows and Linux and a 2nd backup unRaid. Our spare laptop runs Cinnamon. My office HTPC is a Cubox-i4Pro running GeexBox, my living room HTPC is a Raspbmc (first batch pi). I also have 2 old docked android phones with custom Roms for music server duty and my HTC One M7 Android phone rooted with XBMC. All works seamlessly off of my main unRaid rig.

If I started out with a 3 drive (3x2TB) array with one of those drives as the parity drive and later purchased the 4TB drive, I could add it in and rebuild the parity on to the new drive. Correct? .

Yup, you would turn off the machine pop in the 4TB disk, (preferably run 3 preclears on it), and replace via the web gui the Parity drive your selected 2TB disk with the 4TB then click start array. 2 buttons after you have precleared is all you need to click. Again, you can skip the preclear but I would not.

I'd have 4TB to start with in that case, then 6TB with the new 4TB drive as the parity drive and the ability to expand storage from there by simply replacing 2TB drives with 4TB units.

Correct. Or just ADD 4 TB drives to your existing array.

[aud19]

Man...having trouble sourcing all the components. Found one place that has everything but the case and MB are on clearance/in store pickup only...in Ontario (I'm in BC)

Newegg doesn't carry the newer version of that motherboard though and the case is damn near $60 more!

It's making me wonder if I should go back to my original CPU/MB choice...

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117301

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132032&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&PageSize=10&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

[aud19]

Or this CPU which brings the cost back up but efficiency back down.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116947

[Landspeeder]

A quick search over at the unRaid / lime-technology forums shows that a few long time members are using the H87I-PLUS as their main board so I would guess that you would be fine. Some the users of the 6.0 OS Beta which supports virtual servers have the board loaded with the i5-4670 though. Keep in mind that the CPU will be in idle for 99% of its use (little power draw).

[aud19]

Yeah so I'd imagine I won't see much real world efficiency difference with the cheaper Celeron.

OK! So new wishlist :lol:

Case - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811112339
PSU - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817256097
MoBo - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813132032
CPU - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819116999
RAM - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820226184

...and this wee USB drive that's currently out of stock - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-587-_-Product

Now I'm just going to wait for the case to go on sale. After seeing sale prices of $60-$80 in the below thread, I refuse to pay $130+ shipping for the damn thing!

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=29670.0

[Landspeeder]

Looks good to me – you can always run it past the lime-tech forums for another opinion if you have any concerns.

(Edit, I see that you posted in the PC-Q25B builds J.R. – I suggest moving your entire post to Hardware titled ‘FIRST UNRAID BUILD – PLEASE CHECK’ – and editing your PC-Q25B post with a hyperlink pointing to this post – you will receive much better oversight that way – your current location will be limited to only those interested in the Q25B builds)

You can get the same flash key with the Plus key pre-installed from lime-tech for $89 (a $20 premium)

You may be waiting awhile on the case price

[aud19]

Done

Yeah I may end up doing that depending on the price difference/availability via Newegg.

I'm aware I may be waiting a bit but I've got my existing Qnap (even if ready to burst) and I REFUSE to pay $50+ extra for something I know damn well isn't worth that much! Must be the Scottish in me coming out :lol:

FYI, it looks like version 6 will take advantage of USB3.0 for external drives backup etc :T

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=33664.msg316434#msg316434

[Landspeeder]

I'm aware I may be waiting a bit but I've got my existing Qnap (even if ready to burst) and I REFUSE to pay $50+ extra for something I know damn well isn't worth that much!
http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...6434#msg316434

Understood!

FYI, it looks like version 6 will take advantage of USB3.0 for external drives backup etc :T
http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...6434#msg316434

Nice! I missed that one.

[Ryan_M]

A little late here but +1 on using unraid. Looks like a good selection of hardware but just in case you decide to change it up make sure to stick with a mobo that has intel ethernet.

[aud19]

Thanks Ryan :T

[aud19]

Yeah so I'd imagine I won't see much real world efficiency difference with the cheaper Celeron.

OK! So new wishlist :lol:

Case - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811112339
PSU - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817256097
MoBo - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813132032
CPU - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819116999
RAM - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16820226184

...and this wee USB drive that's currently out of stock - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...-587-_-Product

Now I'm just going to wait for the case to go on sale. After seeing sale prices of $60-$80 in the below thread, I refuse to pay $130+ shipping for the damn thing!

http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...?topic=29670.0

Got the case for Christmas from the in-laws :T so I'll be moving ahead on the build likely later this month with a small change of CPU's to this little fella:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116995&cm_re=cpu_processor-_-19-116-995-_-Product

Intel Core i3-4150 Haswell Dual-Core 3.5GHz LGA 1150 54W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4400

Still almost $500 with all the taxes and shipping even without the case 8O *gulp*

[Hdale85]

You know for a NAS I'd say that's still a bit high for a CPU lol. I guess everything seems powerful compared to my quad core essentially a server grade ATOM cpu But it handles my houses server needs quite well!

[aud19]

Yeah I'm leaving head room :lol:

That CPU is the best performance/dollar and one of the cheaper i3 chips which is why it wins. It's a bit more than say a Celeron but for the one time ~$50 it leaves a heck of a lot more headroom should I need it and is otherwise a far superior unit.

[aud19]

Just ordered everything

[aud19]

Dang, forgot to order this guy:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200294CVF&cm_re=USB_A_Female_to_USB_Motherboard-_-12-200-294CVF-_-Product

[wkhanna]

Bet that broke your budget!

[Hdale85]

Yes, it's made of .999999 silver wire with silver plated connectors.

[aud19]

Just a @#$% paying the extra shipping on a $4 cable :rant:

[aud19]

MB and PSU have arrived...just waiting on CPU and RAM now.

Would sure be nice if they came before the weekend too...

[aud19]

Well just ordered the above USB cable, some 90 degree SATA cables, a couple molex splitters and this guy for backups:

http://www.amazon.ca/Offline-Inateck-External-Function-Tool-free/dp/B00N1MAMB6/ref=sr_1_12?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1421085724&sr=1-12&keywords=usb+3.0+3.5+inch+enclosure

Also the CPU, RAM and USB drive just arrived :banana:

[Chris D]

Ask yourself, "IS THIS GOOD FOR THE COMPANY?"

[Kevin P]

Would sure be nice if they came before the weekend too...

Ask yourself, "IS THIS GOOD FOR THE COMPANY?"

Well, if Lumberg makes them work all weekend, and Peter doesn't goof off, you just might get it by the weekend.

[Chris D]

The young people of today have no clue about PC Load Letter. So sad.

[Hdale85]

Guess I'm no longer a young person then.

[aud19]

Went to put my as yet unused but almost 2 year old WD Red drive in but it poofed smoke and died as soon as I turned the system on :lol:

Thankfully it's under warranty (and didn't appear to damage anything else).

[aud19]

Just ordered a HGST Deskstar NAS 4TB drive for $179 at Newegg.ca. Good price for anyone (Canadian) interested.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145912

promo code CEMCAKKX25, ends 1/25

[Chris D]

Wow, Jason, first I've heard of that happening with a WD, much less Red model.

[aud19]

Perhaps mine was made on a Monday? :lol:

[Chris D]

Looks like somebody had a case of the Mondays.