Lets see your hushbox

[kgveteran]

This was a project to quell the nine cooling fans in my 6PGXTRA (NEC). Just more over the top DIY stuff.



Lets see your hushboxes!

[ThomasW]

NEC XG85 during setup. No hushbox because the sub and the mains mask the fans.

Mains:


Image not available

[kgveteran]

No fan noise during quiet scene's....It can't be sub&mains all the time.

The original post was "Hushboxes", Thomas. Not subs and mains.

[draganm]

sorry, no hush-box here. How the heck did they manage to stuff 9 fans in a little 6PG. 8O My giant lawn-mower sized Marquee 8500 only has 5?

[kgveteran]

While i doubt that there are really nine, the installer made that statement.I can still hear it a tiny bit (those fans).

How do you like your CRT? I'm still amazed everytime a new movie comes out, this thing looks better and better.

[draganm]

How do you like your CRT? I'm still amazed everytime a new movie comes out, this thing looks better and better.

well I haven't yet tatooed Electrohome on my arm, yet? I just can't beleive they're not more polular then they really are. Too many people scared away by mis-information. Lately I've been watching the series Firefly on DVD, prequel to the movie Serenity in theatres now. NOTHING shows a starfield or a ship in space like CRT. Watched episode Ambush last night (again) and it was awesome ,There is so much black it's beautiful. There's a scene where they walk into the derelict ship and have 2 big flashlights with them. They have the camera facing the crew as their lights play out across the ship AND my front row of seats in a very dark HT. I actually saw the beams panning across my guest seated next to me, AWESOME! It would have been so pathetic on a DLP where the whole room is lit in a gray glow and seated at 2X screen width. I sit 9 feet away from a 7 foot screen and after a few rum-n-cokes I fee like i'm really floating in space. :E

[kgveteran]

I have enjoyed my front CRT for about five or six years. I'm not sure but the pass through in my Dwin lets me watch HD and it really shines then.I could use a tweak though.My audio skills are terrific but my fine tuning CRT skills lack.

[draganm]

I have enjoyed my front CRT for about five or six years. I'm not sure but the pass through in my Dwin lets me watch HD and it really shines then.I could use a tweak though.My audio skills are terrific but my fine tuning CRT skills lack.

I feel like my set-up skills are pretty good, I can re-tube a set and do a complete yoke alignment no problem. However I'm not sure I've ever gotten better than maybe 95%, there's too many variables to truly believe eveything is ever REALLY perfect. Heck, I'm not about to obsess whether it really is or not, I just run my set for thousands and thousands of hours and never have to worry about when the bulb is going to dump on me. :T the only thing I really want is to upgrade to a set with LC optics, oooooh, aaaah :B

[kgveteran]

It would be fun to spend all day infront of course cross hatch screen.

[draganm]

It would be fun to spend all day infront of course cross hatch screen.

LOL, well it's certainly not all day, at least for a machine youor very faimiliar with. I think I could install an electrohome Marquee to a cieling and get the yokes dialed in complete in 8 hours, assuming it's a typical basement install with floor joists and no speical ceiling re-enforcement necessary. Goota love those all digital chassis with no trim-pots.

[Rolyasm]

Hey KG and Dragan,
I am one of those who has bee steered away from CRT's by evil salespeople and vicious rumors. Can you both give me your opinions on the pros and cons of the CRT. Can you also maybe give me some brands I might research and prices if you know them and where I might get a good one. I have been looking in the $2-3,500 range for projectors. I will be using a dedicated room, front row is 12 feet, back row about 17 feet, probably a 106" screen or a bit bigger. I will pick out a screen later. Thanks for the info.
Roly

[Chris D]

Good stuff, guys. I don't have a hushbox on my Panny AE-700 LCD projector. Since the fan noise is relatively quiet and constant, my brain just tunes it out.

Thomas, is that really your sub?

[draganm]

Roly, pluses of CRT are
1)black levels to die for, blacker than any digital and blacker than film in a theatre.
2) no screen door, pixels, or other anomolies. All analog signal path, although some models can generate background noise which will appear as very fine snow on the pic.
3) no native rez, any resolution can be displayed up to 950P or 1080P depending on whether you run 8 or 9 " tubes
4) no bulb replacement, tubes are good for 10K hours
5)built as commercial devices, and in most cases to military specifications, they're reliable and cheap on the used market.Made to last 100K chassis-hours in most cases.

minuses
1) big and heavy about 100 to 250 pounds for the migthy Sony G90
2) not plug-n-play, about 8 hours of reading and learning , at least
3) most models from Sony, NEC, Ampro, etc, no longer in production. A couple like Barco and Electrohome still being made for NASA and military
4) fixed throw distance, no zoom on lenses. Most machines sit 9 feet back from a 7 foot wide screen
5) NOT a light cannon, require a light controled room. Which you should have anyway if you want to see true blacks.
6) while capable of generating a very sharp pic, as sharp as film, they do not do as well with a pixel based source (computer desktop), the way a pixel based display like DLP/LCD can do.
Basically, if you want to see what it's all about, you need to post in a CRT forum and ask for a lcal demo at someones house. I do these all the time for people and I enjoy it. Get a lot of 'wows" which make me feel good about my DIY HT set-up. :B

[Rolyasm]

any thoughts on a good CRT forum?
Or know anyone in Utahpia?

[ThomasW]

Thomas, is that really your sub?

For the last 5 1/2 years... :T

any thoughts on a good CRT forum?

The best I know of is here. Note that they don't take kindly to thousands of newbie quesions. So use the search function

[Chris D]

Wow, you've probably said this before, but I haven't seen it--where do you have that placed in the theater?

[ThomasW]

It's centered between the mains. HERE's info about it.

[Chris D]

Cool, Thomas. (sorry to hijack the thread) Why are the drivers all pointed in at each other, instead of outward, or downward firing? Don't they just fire soundwaves at each other, causing problems?

[ThomasW]

The only opening is up stairs in the theater. All the drivers are in the basement and fire forward together (they're wired in-phase). That creates a zone of high pressure similar to that of a compression driver. This means all 12 drivers couple and basically function as one much larger driver.

The rearwave off the woofers is absorbed into the basement. This means there's no 'box' interaction or coloration created by the rearwave interacting with the cones. The result is very high quality, very detailed bass. For more info check around here

[Lex]

I'm going to differ in response and say a good CRT forum is right here. Maybe not the volume of responses, but excellent knowledge base right here at home- It just happens we combine CRT/LCD/DLP into one forum.

Lex

[JonMarsh]

Well, it's not for want of trying, here.

But then, I've been so busy here this year I still haven't setup my "new" (500 hour) NEC 10PG. 9 inches. At least I have plenty to do this Xmas.

[ThomasW]

I certainly wasn't implying we don't do okay here. But people here aren't routinely retubing or doing setups with side by side ceiling mounted G90's .... 8O

[draganm]

I certainly wasn't implying we don't do okay here. But people here aren't routinely retubing or doing setups with side by side ceiling mounted G90's .... 8O

As much as I love CRT, the thought of stacking them feels like pure sadomasichism. Of course if was a wealthy Orthodontist like Art I would seriously consider hiring someone to do it for me and run an 11 foot wide screen with 3 or 4 rows of seating. Of course I would need more friends to fill that big of a theatre. BTW, I have never been happy with the ultra-low bass response in my theatre, and now I KNOW what to do? Looks like about $2K in just drivers and amps though?

[ThomasW]

now I KNOW what to do? Looks like about $2K in just drivers and amps though?

No it's not really that expensive these days. My sub was build at a time when we didn't know how many drivers were needed, so I opted for overkill.

Depending on where you put the IB, you can use 15"s or 18"s and the driver cost is much lower than my big IB.

Ascendant Audio is coming out with a $200ea-18" spec'ed just for IB use. 2 or 4 of those should make for a really nice sub...

And if you can run a fan cooled prosound amp like a Nady or Behringer, you're looking at $300 or less for the amp.

For comparison, a setup using the amp and drivers described above, you're in for $1100 (excluding the cost of materials) and have a sub that will run rings around anything costing $5K at retail.

IMO that's not a bad investment.... :T

[cinema bob]

ok so no holds barred which CRT projector would you two gurus pick?

[ThomasW]

This is a trick question since what's available on the used market varies from day to day.....

http://cgi.videogon.com/cgi-bin/fs.pl?projcrta&1&ctg&st1

[draganm]

ok so no holds barred which CRT projector would you two gurus pick?

well they're still available new, I would have to say either a brand new Sony G90 (no longer in production but FH video has them NOS for about $18K I think) , or a brand new Marquee 9500LC, or a brand new Barco Cine -9 . I think the Barco, those 3 big lenses sticking out the front just makes the Testosterone flow, reminds of a battleship. 8)

[LEVESQUE]

If we are talking about the price of a G90, I would buy the new Sony "Ruby" VPL-VW100 in a heartbeat. Native 1080p, 16000:1 with automatic iris...

You should read Greg Rogers review of it. Impressive.

Oh. I forgot. I bought one. Sony told me I would get it on tuesday. :B

[draganm]

I have learned the hard way not to buy anything based on someones "professional review". I hope it lives up to your expectations. Let us know how you like next week after it's set up.

[ThomasW]

The lamps replacement for the Ruby are $1,000 ea. So I'll stick with my NEC XG CRT, get 10,000+ hrs before retubing, and another 10,000+ hrs after paying the $1,000 for retubing.....

[LEVESQUE]

No problem. While you "retube", and loose countless hours "tweaking" it, I will enjoy native 1080p@48 without judder, with side-to-side uniformity and brightness uniformity...

Your NEC doesn't have the bandwithd to do real 1080p@48 and far from doing it @60, and you know it. BTW, Blu-Ray is coming fast, and I should be able to get a pre-production Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray really soon...

Can your CRT accept an HDMI-HDCP input? And what about copy protection with an internet connection on those Blu-ray players? All those little chinese gizmo will then be pretty useless....

[Kevin P]

No hushbox (yet), but here's my new toy. JonMarsh should recognize it.

Image not available

I'm certainly open to discussing CRTs here! I'd love to, in fact.

[George Bellefontaine]

Kevin, that baby looks delicious. Much to setting it up ?

[ThomasW]

While you "retube", and loose countless hours "tweaking" it

Spending 90 min to set the PJ up after retubing, isn't much after 10,000 hrs of use. And once it's dialed in, it's 'tweaked' once every 3 mos, taking less than 15 minutes .... :T

Can your CRT accept an HDMI-HDCP input? And what about copy protection with an internet connection on those Blu-ray players? All those little chinese gizmo will then be pretty useless....

Don't have any Chinese products in the sytem. When one is 'in-the-know' there are devices that ignore the copy protection flags and pass the HD signal. They're made in the USA by a high-end company..... 8)

CRT guys are fairly resourceful when it comes to overcoming any obstacle placed in their way...

[Dean McManis]

Here's a shot of my G15 in a Whisperflow hushbox, from my previous home theater.



My new Studio Experience 50HD doesn't need a hushbox. 8)

On the subject of CRT FPTVs, my Sony 1292 had 13 fans! And it was pretty loud overall because the 205lb beast needed to be hung right over our heads. :roll:

CRTs have a steep initial learning curve, but they are definitely rewarding if you are technically oriented and like to research and tweak. :T

-Dean.

[Kevin P]

George, I set the NEC up in 2 nights, and the first night was a practice run. I re-set it up from scratch (including redoing mechanical setup and focus) the following night and got it looking mah-velous.

Some say NEC CRTs are the hardest to setup, but I found it was easier than doing Zeniths. Point convergence makes it possible to get geometry and convergence spot-on, which is nearly impossible to do using only coarse adjustments.

Dean, the 50HD is niiice. :T We've installed a couple in people's houses.

[JonMarsh]

VERY clean looking NEC, Kevin! :T :T How many hours on it?

~Jon

[draganm]

No problem. While you "retube", and loose countless hours "tweaking" it, I will enjoy native 1080p@48 without judder, with side-to-side uniformity and brightness uniformity... Your NEC doesn't have the bandwithd to do real 1080p@48 and far from doing it @60, and you know it. BTW, Blu-Ray is coming fast, and I should be able to get a pre-production Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray really soon...

there's so much misinformation here it's not even funny. You have obviously never owned a CRT, and know nothing about them. 1080P at 60 Hz is only half the bandwidth of most EM focus machines, although only a 9" tubes machine can actually fit that many lines without overlap. As far as HDMI, The signal format is something that has NEVER stopped any technology from being relevant or not. I have been seen this so many times in the last 3 years, the latest fixed pixel display comes out and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon, 6 months later they're being dumped on E-bay, it's just not a game for me.

[Kevin P]

VERY clean looking NEC, Kevin! :T :T How many hours on it?

~Jon

<500 hrs, the thing is practically brand new. Got really lucky. Looks fantastic too, and I'm not even finished tweaking it yet.

[JonMarsh]

<500 hrs, the thing is practically brand new. Got really lucky. Looks fantastic too, and I'm not even finished tweaking it yet.

Well, Kevin, it looks like we both got great deals on low mileage NEC's this year.

I was hoping that we'd actually see some HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players this year- last spring I was thinking I might be able to buy one by Xmas time. OTOH, I'm a little disappointed that the specs I've seen published on all prospective players as well as the discussion at AV Science indicates the first crop of players will only support 1080i output; no progressive 1080P yet.

Still, I've been getting good results on my NEC 9PG+ with my DVI to RGBHV converter even with HDCP protected sources, so I think that unless something further changes before release, I'll be set.

Myself, I'm not worried about an internet connection for the HD-DVD players, as that functionality is for managed copies or to unlock additional content, and personally, I could care less about those features.

It's going to be a buys holiday season, but I've got a day reserved for setting up my 10PG. I'm looking forward to it, needless to say.

I'm also looking forward to checking out what's happening at CES, and if I can get free, might drop in on the AVS CES party- I've got some other engagements with friends in the industry to schedule first, so will have to see how things work out. Yes, I'll be taking a camera, and maybe for the first time try doing a "show report".

~Jon

[BlazeMaster]

Ok, since the title of the thread is about hushbox, I'll ask it here, even though there is no talk about hushbox. What materials should I line my recently built hush box with the deaden the noise? I've seen 4x8 sheets of sound deadening materials at Home Depot, just wondering if anyone seen anything thinner, lighter and sold in smaller size sheets, since I won't be needing 4ftx8ft.

[draganm]

Blaze, the brown stuf at HD is really meant to go under sheet rock. It's messy as hell and not soemthing I would put in a hush-box with my PJ. Go to your local Auto Zone and ask for Dynamat. This a silvery looking sound deadening pad for cars with high performance exhaust, designed for interiors like trunks and floor pans. It's fairly thin, light, clean, + comes in smaller sheets.

[BlazeMaster]

Yea, I realized that after I tried it. It was a pain to glue it, nothing seems to get a good bond with it. I gave up with that board, I will go and look for Dynamat, I've heard of it before, just didn't know where I can find it.

[ThomasW]

The thinner Dynamat is designed to mass load sheet metal lowering it's resonant frequency. It doesn't absorb anything like the fan noise. Doing that takes a porus surface like acoustic foam or compressed fiberglass panels.

If you look at the right column of this webpage you'll see a section on damping.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=29&wt.svl=1

[BlazeMaster]

Thanks Thomas, much better idea, the Dynamat was kinda expensive compared to this as well. I will go and return the Dynamatt first thing tomorrow.