Dream Projector...

**George Bellefontaine** · 26 April 2005, 10:47 Tuesday

Now that's what I'd call a big daddy crt PJ. :T

**JonMarsh** · 26 April 2005, 11:23 Tuesday

Yeah, about 270 lb worth!

**Jack Gilvey** · 26 April 2005, 11:41 Tuesday

Hmm...so what'll you do with the 9PG+?

How might this one compare to an Ampro 4600?

**JonMarsh** · 26 April 2005, 11:58 Tuesday

Similar beasts; Curt Palme really digs his Ampro, but I'm kind of an NEC fanboy for the build quality, reliability, and color correction they implement.

What's odd to me is that NEC never made a monster like this in the XG series... this is my favorite NEC projector. Technically, my 9PG+ is considered by some to be closer to an 8" CRT, as the outside dimensions face dimensions on the PG and XG tubes are the same, but the Xtra has a longer neck, higher lumen tube for the green (more lumens). The PG's, if run sensibly, will hold up a long time at nominal contrast settings. Sony gets a lot of performance out of the tubes, but it's easy to setup a D50 or G70 to where the tubes are gettting pretty toasty in as little as 3K hours. Sony setup is easier, NEC color fidelity better, IMO. YMMV.

~Jon

**Dean McManis** · 26 April 2005, 12:18 Tuesday

A 10PG with such low original hours on it is definitely quite a find.
I think about this more like a 20 year old Rolls Royce with 5000 miles on it.
Amazing craftsmanship and build quality, but very pricey if something breaks.

They have a used Sony G90 for a killer price up there too, but this is easily the better deal.

**JonMarsh** · 26 April 2005, 12:29 Tuesday

That's a very good analogy, Dean...

Are you talking about the used G70 for $4300? Or the G90 with the new MEC tubes for $15K?

Being a NEC partisan (I also have one of their color corrected direct view presentation monitors), I'd take the NEC over either, though I know lots of folks must be interseted in that G70 with 1000 hours- that's a pretty decent deal, if the 10PG wasn't up at the same time.

Well, I'm going to keep an eye on it.. who knows, maybe there won't be anyone else for a few weeks who understands what it is and can dredge up the cash? (I have a publication bonus and semi-annual bonus coming up... cross fingers...)

I already have a set of service manuals for this beast (my intersest isn't casual)

~Jon

**Jack Gilvey** · 26 April 2005, 13:54 Tuesday

I really hate you CRT guys. Just when I think I'm happy...

**JonMarsh** · 26 April 2005, 14:41 Tuesday

Jack - you probably are happy. And you'll stay that way, unless you go see a good CRT setup, and you don't have one, too.

It's not for everyone; the inital setup is like an entry level mechanical engineering course. But it's a little like HTV, in that you wind up enjoying watching almost anything more than you would otherwise (which could be both a good and a bad thing).

My real guilty please lately is TV series on DVD- haven't had cable, nor the time, but the last two years I've picked up a lot of TV DVD sets which I"ve really enjoyed, and the quality on DVD scaled to 1080i on my "little" PG is really pretty nice compared to what I see on my friends set OTA or cable or SAT (hardly surprising, given the difference in color bandwidth).

Just gotten into another obscure one I've never heard of before- "The Pretender"- it's pretty decent, and DVD quality is A-OK.

I love outer space shows on CRT....

also those scary sci-fi kind of shows where everything is dark and murkey....

~Jon

**Jack Gilvey** · 26 April 2005, 15:42 Tuesday

Yeah...the picture I'm getting from my 4805 on an 80" is beyond anything I thought I could afford, and it's the best HT purchase I've made by far. In the last year since my foray into FP with this model, though, I find I've become a stickler for black level and contrast. I'm quite happy with the 480 resolution, though, but more is always good. A CRT that could give me black blacks and 720p would make me smile...sounds like the PG9+ is for me.

On that note, does the PG9+ actually resolve 720p?

**JonMarsh** · 26 April 2005, 16:41 Tuesday

A properly setup 9PG+ will resolve 720 scan lines in 16:9 without overlap. In 4:3 theyr'e good for 1280X1024.

It's not that hard to setup; it has tabs with multiple postions/setting that control the lens edge focus; it's not like shimming a Sony. Then, there's center and edge electronic focus, in addition to yoke controls and astig. The key is getting a tight beam spot size over the whole picture, then doing the basic aiming of the tubes for the distance you're using, so that the resulting rasters are centered in each tube.

I know, this must sound a little odd how I describe it, as if it's something rather casual; put this into perspective, in the 80's I put together two different HeathKit CRT projection TV's, one based on the Advent design, another on a Zenith design. Once you've done that level of assembly (lots of circuit boards, mechanical stuff, all the CRT and yoke installation, etc,) a couple of times, what's the big deal with aligning an NEC?

One thing many folks acknowledge is that the PG series has the best color fidelity of any "small" CRT unit (nominal 7", though actually they're the same face size as the XG, just don't have quite as much phospor and don't drive them as hard), due to the filtered elements which are used- "low end" ECP's, Barco's, and Marquee's don't compare- nor Sony's. The real "acid test" is how well the gray scale tracks, and how black and white material looks (a lot of digitals have problems there, like LCD displays with poor area uniformity). Good tests are Pleasantville, the intro to "Van Helson", and the B&W parts of "Pretender" (TV series).

Seriously, if you go with the stock screen distance (100" 4:3), all one needs is to go through the static alignment, then the color convergence, and usually the basic settings copy right over from the "main" registered input (regardless of resolution), and apart from zeroing out point convergence first, it's not a biggie (I've done some RPTV's, too, and they're almost as much hassle, considering they only have one mechanical distance setup.

Your 4805 is a good little beasty for getting into the basics with good contrast ratio. The challenge would be figuring out where to go from there, if you wanted to stay digital. Every projector has it's strengths and weaknesses. I think if I went digital, I'd probably like an LCOS best, like the Sony or JVC units, because I'm sensitive to rainbows and temporal dithering. But a lot of people don't notice those effects, so it often just comes down to color balance and contrast ratio- the DLP's for HT have improved dramatically over the last 4 years, while the business ones have gotten really tiny and really ugly picture wise (light olive green "yellow", for example, and magnenta reds).

~Jon

**JonMarsh** · 26 April 2005, 18:24 Tuesday

Originally posted by Dean McManis

A 10PG with such low original hours on it is definitely quite a find.
I think about this more like a 20 year old Rolls Royce with 5000 miles on it.
Amazing craftsmanship and build quality, but very pricey if something breaks.

They have a used Sony G90 for a killer price up there too, but this is easily the better deal.

OK, now I figured it out- you must mean THIS one....

See, that's the thing that's a bit of a problem with Sony's- they have the electronics setup to where what seems like "normal" drive settings may semi-toast the tubes in 4000 hours- G70's, D50, G90's, all require (from what I continually read) some real care in setup to avoid this. Still, for someone handy with wires and sparks, it's not a bad price- but getting that rebuilt one from Terry Chuchuff with new MEC tubes would be a better deal, considering the risk of "doing it yourself".

**JonMarsh** · 09 May 2005, 06:34 Monday

I'm setting things in motion today to "pull the trigger" on this one- of course, we could have a misfire, or their may not be a round in the chamber.

Wish me luck...

~Jon

**Azeke** · 09 May 2005, 08:20 Monday

Good Luck Jon.

Azeke

**Jack Gilvey** · 09 May 2005, 08:22 Monday

Good luck. I'd be interested in your PG+ if yout get the big guy.

Jg

**PiDD** · 09 May 2005, 10:47 Monday

wow! very nice proj. I am just starting to think about moving from the 7" world to the 8" world. I cant (wont) even think about 9"!

Hope it works out for ya.

**JonMarsh** · 09 May 2005, 21:57 Monday

Thanks for the well wishes-

Status- funds on the way (hit up the old piggybank), and I think we have a deal, and he can wait the five to seven days until I can pick up.

'Course, you know what they say, there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

Jack, I'll ponder that- I hadn't really thought yet about selling the 9PG+; I just bought a complete set of OEM NEC CRT's for it at Xmas time, a lucky rare find (they don't make them anymore, though VDC makes rebuilds). Of course, with under a thousand hours on the originals, it's not like I needed the CRTs, but when you have an opportunity to get something useful and rare, sometimes ya gotta do what you've gotta do.

~Jon

**Jack Gilvey** · 09 May 2005, 22:46 Monday

Jack, I'll ponder that- I hadn't really thought yet about selling the 9PG+;

Just a thought in case you did...I know it's been lovingly cared for and tweaked.

**JonMarsh** · 14 May 2005, 13:01 Saturday

Pickup is now scheduled for next weekend on Sunday- May 22. :B

The only issue to settle is getting my Z28 out of the shop- that has been a remarkable tale of things gone not quite right at the local Chevy dealer; at least, I'm getting a new clutch out of this, too, without any incremental labor charges.

Woooo Hooooooo!

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

~Jon

**Dean McManis** · 14 May 2005, 16:14 Saturday

That's exciting projector news Jon. :T

-Dean.

**JonMarsh** · 16 May 2005, 10:30 Monday

Yeah, to say I'm pretty jazzed is putting it mildly. Going from my air coupled 7/8" tubes (depending on who you talk to ) to liquid coupled 9" with more bandwith should be pretty nice...

Now I'm going to have to crack the service and setup supplement for the 10PG, and see if there's any new stuff I need to learn compared with my 9PG+. I found working on an XG pretty straight forward, and there seems to be more family similarity for the obvious reasons in the PG series. The menus seem pretty similar, but I haven't looked at the mechanical setup, yet, and therein will probably lie a small tale....

~Jon

**Jack Gilvey** · 16 May 2005, 16:19 Monday

I'm glad to see it's on the way to someone who can appreciate, optimize, and enjoy it.

**mante** · 23 May 2005, 20:58 Monday

Dream Projector

Well,

"Pickup is now scheduled for next weekend on Sunday- May 22."

Did you finally get your Dream Projector? I believe I asked for your old projector first

Young Padawan

**JonMarsh** · 23 May 2005, 23:05 Monday

The transaction is "in progress"- only got my car out of the shop late last Friday (2-1/2 weeks and $3300 dollars later, and that with 21 N/C items on the invoice from the dealer). Funds sent and pickup will probably be two weeks from now.

It's a little unreal for me at the moment, but I bet I'll start getting antsy pretty soon- the thing is there's so much going on at work that it's soaking up a lot of my mental bandwidth until June 3 at least.

Have another issue I'm working on, a car purchase, as well as trying to get my motorcycle ready for the road this summer.

Well, at least I took a little break on the train home this afternoon and worked on the Arvo crossover with new measured data from production RS28A-4 tweeters. Now THAT's relaxing...

~Jon

**David Meek** · 24 May 2005, 16:51 Tuesday

Funds sent and pickup will probably be two weeks from now.

That's awesome Jon - just plain awesome! :T

**JonMarsh** · 24 May 2005, 17:02 Tuesday

Believe me, it IS awesome... a few weeks ago I was just dreaming, and then I decided, what the heck, let's get serious.

I could pick it up this weekend, but as part of my ongoing acting out (MLC, anyone?), I'm probably going to be going to look at a shiny red Acura coupe, if this one isn't sold already.

Just think, with what a flux capacitor could do in a DeLorean, what it might do in one of these?

If I wait any longer to have my MLC, it will just be a second childhood...

~Jon

**JonMarsh** · 03 June 2005, 10:23 Friday

OK, I've freed up enought time to drive to San Diego and pick up the projector this Saturday!

Slow work takes time!

And no, didn't get the car- it was already sold! :cry:

~Jon

**Kevin P** · 03 June 2005, 10:35 Friday

Wow, a 10PG Jon? Congrats!

If you recall I'm the proud owner of a low-hours 9PG Xtra. I just need to get my house built so I have a HT to install it in.

It'll be a fun project though, as I've done CRTs before and nothing can touch the pic quality.

Can't wait to read your (I'm sure they'll be) informative posts as you set that beast up!

**JonMarsh** · 03 June 2005, 14:36 Friday

Thanks, Kevin. I feel like I got real lucky to find a 10PG with such low hours- I'm pretty jazzed, from the service and setup manuals, it seems that most of what I've learned on my 9PG+ should transfer to the 10PG, with a few wrinkles.

At the rate the summer is going, I may not start getting it setup until sometime this fall- so much going on at work, now I'm travelling overseas on the 4th of July week, too.

if it goes like last year, it may not be until Christmas that I get a little R&R.

How long are you looking at for getting your house re-built after the fire? Are you going with the same layout, or making some upgrades?

~Jon

**Dean McManis** · 04 June 2005, 03:20 Saturday

Jon,

I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing your new 10PG setup when you do get an opportunity to tweak it. It has been many years since I've seen a well setup CRT FPTV, many of the AV shops had higher-end units, but they were often poorly converged and calibrated.

ops:

It's a shame however that you didn't get the NSX. Like CRTs, the used NSXs are a great bargain these days, being an $80K hand built car new, and selling for $35K-$45K used (for the more powerful '96+ models). Cars are another one of my favorite hobbies. :B

Congratulations again on getting the 10PG! :T

-Dean.

**JonMarsh** · 04 June 2005, 07:50 Saturday

Thanks Dean!

I'm out the door in just a few minutes this AM. While I'm down there today, also have plans to look at another NSX- a black 96. We'll see what we'll see. Red would have been my first choice- another car, a Brooklands green 94, was also sold just a few days before I could see it.

When I get things all sorted out with the 10PG, I'll invite you up for a look and see. It may be some months, as work looks to be bezerkely until September or later (for example, I'm losing my Fourth of July weekend and daughter's 21st birthday to a "must do" trip to Singapore on business that week). Sigh... well, at least it's obvious I don't have time to get bored...

~Jon

**Paul H** · 04 June 2005, 09:13 Saturday

Sounds like a fun little road trip. Enjoy the few moments you do have away from work.

Paul

**JonMarsh** · 05 June 2005, 18:24 Sunday

Thanks for the good wishes, Paul.

Well, I'm back, and it was a busy trip! A bit brain fried; maybe I'm just not very used to driving 450 miles a day at 85-90 MPH most of the way... well, until I hit the heavy traffic in LA around 11 AM, anyway.

I took my Z28 Camaro "sport truck", and as expected (and to the slight disbelief of the now former owner of the NEC 10PG), it fit quite nicely in the back, with leaving the lenses off. I spent a few minutes checking it out while there- it's like old home week, same remote as the 9PG+, but boy those CRT's shore are big!

Here it is, safe and snug in a corner at home after I got it upstairs with the appliance dolly, all 200 lb of it.

The other part of the trip was very interesting, too. I inspected the black '96 Targa NSX I mentioned above- very, very clean. :T

New timing belt, clutch, window lifts, tires, and some other bits mean near term service costs should be low.

In the end, I couldn't resist it, and I should be flying back in a week to drive it home. :driving:

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

~Jon

**Kevin P** · 05 June 2005, 18:44 Sunday

Wow, congrats on the NSX as well! New toys for Jon! :B

It occurred to me that once you install that 10PG you won't be needing those spare tubes you got for the 9PG... wink wink nudge nudge

As for the house, we're hoping for moving in in September, but realistically, who knows. They're still framing the roof. We made some changes to the floor plan, adding on in the back so we can squeeze in a walk-in closet and master bath off the master bedroom. The kitchen will be enlarged, and with no more wood stove in the family room we can put the screen on that wall, making front projection possible finally. Also, with building what is essentially a brand new house, we get some amenities we didn't have before, such as whole house audio and in-wall ethernet and speaker hookups.

**Paul H** · 05 June 2005, 18:58 Sunday

THAT is a shopping trip folks :T

;x( ;x(

Paul

**Dean McManis** · 06 June 2005, 04:00 Monday

Wow, two BIG Christmas gifts for yourself! You are a lucky man indeed.

Enjoy!

**JonMarsh** · 06 June 2005, 06:29 Monday

Originally posted by Paul H

THAT is a shopping trip folks :T

;x( ;x(

Paul

Yes, well, I was trained and coached by the King of industrial grade shopping, ThomasW.... gives me an unfair advantage!

Yeah, Dean, I figure this is my Xmas and Birthday for the next five years all wrapped up at once! Sometimes you've gotta strike while the iron is hot- just rather amazing that these both popped up so close to each other- I've been looking for a good 10PG since late 2003; the car only a few months.

Whoooo Hoooooo! :B

~Jon

**Chris D** · 09 June 2005, 03:46 Thursday

Congrats, Jon! :banana:

**JonMarsh** · 09 June 2005, 22:54 Thursday

Thanks, Chris- I'm seriously psyched! Just gotta figure out how to get a little time off to enjoy things ~ the irony is that I'm coming up on 20 years anniversery in a few months, and will go from 4 weeks a year vacation to five weeks- just never seem to have the time to take it with all the things going on! Will have to do something about that...

**John Holmes** · 10 June 2005, 01:46 Friday

Wow Jon, that was one heck of a trip! Crongrats on the new toys. Enjoy!

**JonMarsh** · 11 June 2005, 20:43 Saturday

I'm planning on it!

Monday I fly back to San Diego and pick up the car.... :B :B :B :B :B :B

**David Meek** · 13 June 2005, 08:23 Monday

You are the master. ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

That projector AND an NSX. . . . I want to be you when I grow up. :B

**JonMarsh** · 13 June 2005, 23:58 Monday

Uh, David, that's the secret- never grow up! Puer Aeternis...

Decided I better have my midlife crisis before it was so late it would just be a second child hood! It's been a long time coming- I've been saving and looking for a while for both - the next best deal on a 10PG wasn't nearly as attractive. And it's tough to find a good used example of the car at a semi-reasonable price- there's always tradeoffs, you just have to pick the ones you can live with. Still, with a little TLC, I should get quite a few years out of this one, especially at the mileage I expect to be doing.

I really, REALLY didn't expect these to come together like this... it was quite a surprise how things have unfolded since early May.

LONG, long day today- up since 2:30 AM, just got back from San Diego about 8PM, getting a Jamba Juice smoothie (daughter used to work there- got mildly addicted to a couple of them! Now I need some ZZZ's before going to work tomorrow- wish I could take a few days off, but my main cohort who would have to fill in is in Germany with his wife for two weeks... hope they have a great time!

~Jon

**David Meek** · 14 June 2005, 08:35 Tuesday

Hmmm, he's in Germany for two weeks of R&R and you're still at work. Sounds like a good reason to use a couple of weeks of your own vacation when he gets back, eh? :T

**Brandon B** · 14 June 2005, 09:56 Tuesday

Originally posted by David Meek

You are the master. ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x( ;x(

That projector AND an NSX. . . . I want to be you when I grow up. :B

And he's da MAN. The NSX has the lowest percentage of female registered owners of any car in the U.S.

In Japan, it's just a honda though.

BB

Dream Projector...

Dream Projector...

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