Bryston 1.7 pre/pro

[jimmyp58]

Anyone out there with experience with this pre/pro? What pre/pro did you have before you upgraded to this unit?

Jim

[Bam!]

.....

[brucek]

jimmyp58,

I've owned the Bryston SP1 for quite a few years (which is basically the same as the SP1.7 with the 1.7 providing multichannel SACD input and two extra surround channels). I think it's one of the best processors on the market at this reasonable price point, specifically if you're into two channel sound. It definitely isn't a bells and whistles device - it just does good sound.

There's no video switching, it requires an external switcher. Video introduces a lot of noise. To do video switching well, (and most high end processors do it very well), costs money, especially with switching the higher video rates used today. It is a major percentage of the cost of a unit. To keep this RF noise out of the audio requires considerable shielding and creative video and audio pathways. No thanks, I do all my video switching in my RPTV. I wouldn't even consider allowing all that noise to splash around in my preamp. I want the best sound possible.

As you likely know the SP-1.7 is really two separate preamps in one. It has an analog bypass mode which shuts down the digital processor completely including it's power supply and emulates Brystons flagship BP-25 analog preamp specs with its own separate power supply and signal paths and volume control section. This is done seemlessly with the push of one button. It also has a completely separate digital preamp with its own power supply and signal path and volume control section. Not many processors match its THD and noise figures of THD of 0.0025% with a S/N of 110db in bypass and THD of 0.006% with a S/N of 105db in digital. Quite low.

As a comparison, if I look at your present processor, it has a THD of 0.05% with an S/N of 92dB in digital and 95dB in analog. Not bad, but in comparison to the specs of those Bryston amps you're driving, you'd likely be pleased with the SP1.7. :roll:
Some people claim there is a certain superior synergy relationship when you combine a preamp and power amp from the same company. I don't know if I buy into that claim, but there it is anyway. I feed a 4BST with my SP1 and I haven't heard much that matches it.

The SP1.7, like all Bryston products are handmade with each one tested over 100hours and comes with a full unlimited 20 year guarantee. It goes without saying that putting a 20 year warranty on a 'processor' tells you the confidence Bryston has in this gear, (incredible on a processor). There's really nothing I can tell you that isn't on there web site, so I won't bore you with it. Oh yeah, this unit runs hot, so it belongs in a shelf with some room to breath. The entire heavy case is the heat sink...

brucek

[jimmyp58]

Thanks guys for the input. Bruce, it's good to hear, once again, how good this pre-pro is especially from someone as seasoned as yourself. I am like you in that I'll leave the video switching to my rptv. That is how I currently have it set up even though my 1098 has the built-in ability to do it. I won't bother purchasing the add-on SPV-1 for video switching duties.

I am glad you pointed out the noise floor issue too.

Don't get me wrong, the Rotel is doing a wonderful job in my setup but it's time for an upgrade and this seems like the logical choice. I auditioned the new Anthem Statement D1 pre-pro and it certainly is an awesome unit. But I didn't hear dramatic improvements over my 1098. Heck, if I am going to drop some money I want to hear the changes, all the time, and in the hour I spent listening to the D1 (we switched back and forth between it and a 1098 with the same speakers I have) I can't justify that upgrade path. For many folks the D1 would be a huge upgrade but again, not in my setup. But the 1.7 is in a whole different league.

Again, thanks again for the input!

Jim

[Bam!]

....well hello to you too there Jim! :blink: :unsure:

[LEVESQUE]

Hello Jim!

I was able to listen to the Bryston also. It's an AWESOME performer sonically. But in my case, it was a little bit limited. I have 3 rooms with HT in them, and was badly needing a second and third room switching! Those IR repeaters and the video switching were a necessity in my situation.

I also did choose the D1 because of one MAJOR thing in my opinion. The digital stage of the D1 is second to none right now. And I'm gladly jumping in the digital bandwagon, so the analog performance of the Bryston wasn't really useful for me. It was a choice between an excellent analog or an excellent digital stage. I did choose the later...

My Denon 5900 just came back from Denon canada with the firewire (i-link) connection active, and the D1 should be updated in the next 3-4 months. And right now I'm bypassing the DAC's of the 5900 (some of the best on the market...) to use those in the D1 because they are simply better. I really thing it's a major feat from Anthem to beat the 5900 in this regard.

Jimmy. When you did try the D1, did you use the DAC's of the D1 or those in the players? The general consensus is to use those in the players now, but the D1 is really an exception right now, having such a great digital stage. I think it's probably why you were not impress with the D1 compared to the 1098. The dealer was probably doing like averyone else and using the DACs in the source.

So why invest on a awesome analog stage when the future (IMHO for sure) will be with digital stages?

The upcoming DVI/HDMI swtiching is also another MAJOR plus in my situation (I own 3 DVI/HDMI players, and soon a DVI HD STB...). The video transcoding is another big plus in my book.

After switching from a CRT projector to a digital projector, and seeing what a pure digital video path could do, I can't live with it anymore... that's why I'm dreaming of the day when i will use my 5900 firewire connection with my Anthem D1 (soon, I hope!) and using a pure digital audio path.

The Bryston is superior sonically using the excellent analog section, I can't argue against that, but the D1 was better future-wise in my situation, and will probably (speculations here) sound better when using a digital audio path... The future is digital, the past was analog...

Maybe Brucek can fill is in with the hardware upgrade path of this Bryston pre-amp. Is there any hardware upgrade in the pipeline for the SP1.7? Does bryston usually perform hardware upgrade like Anthem did on the AVM20?

And the MOST important part for me. Does Bryston plan on upgrading the SP1.7 with a firewire digital connection, or HDMI2? If not, then I pass... With all those upcoming (and existing) sources with firewire, it was a MAJOR point for me.

It's nearly impossible to do a totally dedicated room that work well with HT AND 2ch audio. Everyone knows that. So I did choose to do a totally dedicated room for HT, so I use all the speakers now when listening to music also. Sounds pretty good to my, and it's my choice.

So who needs a 2ch analog bypass in this situation?

[brucek]

So who needs a 2ch analog bypass in this situation

You've nicely made my point that the Bryston isn't for everyone - it is uniquely suited to the two channel analog enthusiast who also wants a home theater with all the standard functions. It has specifications in both digital and analog modes that are of the highest in the industry at this price point. Everything in engineering comes at a price or a compromise. Add a feature, and either the price increases or the performance suffers. Bryston chooses to remain minimalist...... 8O

Bryston in my observation has never been an early adopter. They appear to wait until a standard is firmly entrenched and then upgrade their equipment. When this occurs the company seems more than generous in their upgrade policy. In that regard, anyone may send in their SP1 processor and they will upgrade it and receive back essentially a new SP1.7 for what I consider a steal of a price. Not many companies doing that or including a 20 year unlimited warranty either.

Anyway, I love 2 channel analog, so this is the minimalist processor for me. You'll have a hard time convincing me that analog is dead. I'd have a tough time listening to my new SACD player if it were so - and it has to be a darned good analog chain to realize the benefit of the increased resolution of SACD. Yeah I know, the D1 has an upsampler, and a good one too I understand. :T

With regard to CD, I realize there are some swell external DAC's on the market and many DAC sections in processors that are well done, but you'll have a hard time beating a high quality player. The transport/external DAC setup is flawed because it's subject to too much jitter no matter how many times you reclock or jitter reduce the digital data. The only solution to this dilemma is to use the same clock for the conversion that's used to clock the data off the disk. This synchronous method gives you the only real chance to essentially eliminate jitter. Good external DACs come close, but they can't beat a player. So you need a good analog preamp to get that pristine analog signal to your speakers.

That new D1 looks like a real gem though - impressive specs and seems to do everything but tie your shoes. I suspect it matches beautifully with that new Statement P5 I believe you own or are considering - quite the monster (2 power cords?). I wouldn't trade in your 4BSST quite yet though...you'll eventually be sorry. :roll: There's a certain subtle delicacy about the 4B that's hard to match. Anyway, like everyone else, I possess some ownership bias.

I'm a bit surprised also that jimmyp58 wasn't impressed by the D1. I think it's important to realize how incrementally smaller the performance increases become as the price rises...sad but true.

brucek

[LEVESQUE]

You've nicely made my point that the Bryston isn't for everyone -

Like I perfectly know that the Anthem D1 is not for everyone! :B

Because I have a totally treated room, I don't listen to 2ch music anymore. I own over 100 SACDs and DVD-As. My room is too "dead" for 2ch music because of the room treatments. But when using the multi-ch and hi-rez formats, my room and system is really shining.

I actually own the P5 since 2 months. It's really something. But I was just kidding about the 4BSST :B

The Sp1.7 is one of the best sounding pre/pro I have heard. I was that close to buy it...

BTW Bruceck.

I just noticed you own Paradigm speakers. if you like 2ch music that much, why don't you pair your awesome amps and pre/pro combination with the new Paradigm Signature S8? I was a Studio-100 owner, and made the upgrade 6 months ago. I was so glad I bought them.

The S8 are a good step up over the Studio-100, particularly with music. I did compare them with Revel, B&W and alot of different speakers in the same price range, or costing more, and the S8 were the most transparent, best sounding speakers I have heard.

With the Bryston 4BSST, the S8 are simply astounishing! :T

[jimmyp58]

I got an offer on my Rotel RSP-1098 today and should be getting an overnight Cashier's Check tomorrow. Once this is clear, I am ordering the Bryston SP 1.7. I went for a listen today and I simply cannot believe how awesome that pre/pro sounds. I liked the 1098, don't get me wrong, but to a lot of folk's point, the 1.7 is in another league.

Thanks for the inputs guys!

Jim

[brucek]

BTW Bruceck.
I just noticed you own Paradigm speakers. if you like 2ch music that much, why don't you pair your awesome amps and pre/pro combination with the new Paradigm Signature S8? I was a Studio-100 owner, and made the upgrade 6 months ago.

I actually use my pair of Studio 100's for my surrounds and I have a pair of ProAc Response 3.8's as my mains. These are a fairly good speaker in the C$11000 range that have a soundstage for 2 channel to die for..
I read good stuff about the S8 though...

I am ordering the Bryston SP 1.7. I went for a listen today and I simply cannot believe how awesome that pre/pro sounds

Great jimmy..you'll have to let us know how it sounds at home.. :T

brucek

[Adz]

Jimmy:

Couldn't agree more. I called an A/V place in Rochester, NY. They have both the 1098 and the 1.7 set up with Bryston Amps and B&W Speakers and their audio technician told me the 1.7 pre/pro was a very big step up (I think he used the phrase "a whole different league" and awesome) and taking the price difference into account, he thought there was absolutely no comparison. The 1.7 he considered hi-fi and Rotel mid-fi. He thought the 1098 sounded great of course but thought they missed the boat by introducing the OSD which he believed comprised a major part of the cost of the unit while introducing potential for video interference and then had to compromise by putting in less than stellar components. I believe they also carry Lexicon but he has the 1.7 in his own home. A technician at Bryston estimated (but don't hold him to it) that they would be out with another major hardware upgrade and software upgrade in about 6 months but on a smaller scale than when they went from the 1.0 to the 1.7.

[jimmyp58]

A B&M store I auditioned the 1.7 at referred, in similar fasion to what your guy said ADZ, that on a scale of 1 to 10 the Rotel is an 8 and the 1.7 is a 10. He carries both Rotel and Bryston.

Jim

[jimmyp58]

The SP 1.7 has arrived....

I just finished hooking up my new SP 1.7. Besides it being very straightforward, it sounds absolutely incredible. This was just what I was looking for.

I'll write a more detailed report in a couple of days.

Jim

[Bam!]

I just finished hooking up my new SP 1.7. Besides it being very straightforward, it sounds absolutely incredible. This was just what I was looking for.

I'll write a more detailed report in a couple of days.

Jim

Awesome Jimmy.....I am pretty anxious to hear your comments....

[Azeke]

Jimmy,

I am happy for you :T .

Keep us posted,

Azeke

[brucek]

jimmyp58,

One feature that I really like with my SP1 (that was added as a hidden 'selectable' feature after I purchased it) is the 'Enabling the Subwoofer output in the Bypass mode'.

You originally had to order your preference (or not) for this feature and it would come pre-loaded in your firmware - duh. When they added a few new features and were going to move to the SP1.7 architecture I asked for the last SP1 firmware version for my machine and installed it.

After installing the firmware, the 'Enabling the Subwoofer output in the Bypass mode' became a hidden selectable feature. I really like this feature, because in analog bypass it allows you to add in a small amount of bottom end from your sub to compliment the full range mains.

This feature (when enabled) routes a full range mono analog summed (L+R) signal to the subwoofer output. You must of course provide your own bass management to the signal if you intend to us it. This can be problematic because normally the subwoofer output would not be bass managed by your subwoofer itself. So in analog bypass you would have to add in some external bass management by dialing in your subwoofers low pass filter to some crossover frequency you enjoyed like 40-60Hz....

Myself, I do this electronically to a crossover of about 35Hz and so it gives an extra kick to the very bottom end.

Anyway, I was interested if they had kept this feature when they moved to the SP1.7, and was pleased to see in the user manual that the index showed this feature. What is confusing is that it shows it in the index, but it doesn't mention it in the manual itself - at least not in the downloadable version. (or maybe I can't read)

My question is whether it is mentioned in the hard copy manual and whether you use this feature? Some purists may poo-poo the idea......8O

brucek

[jimmyp58]

brucek:

Thanks for pointing this out. I did not see it in the user manual but will check the index and report back. I definitely will tinker with this to see what the results are.

Jim

P.S. I am about 3/4 done with writing my 'first impressions' report and will post as such soon.

Jim

[jimmyp58]

brucek:

I just checked the hard copy manual and it mirrors the online version. It appears they intended to print something as it appears there is extra spacing but nothing is printed.

I am going to post on audiocircle to see if someone knows how to do this on the 1.7 and I'll report back.

Jim

[brucek]

to see if someone knows how to do this on the 1.7

I'm sure the function is the same as on my SP1. They likely just made an oversight in the manual.

On your SP1.7 front panel, the button that is called [MODE], is called [MUSIC] on my front panel.

To enable the feature on the SP1 , I press [CD] and [MUSIC] buttons simultaneously and the display will read out "BYPASS: SUB YES"......To disable the feature repeat the procedure and the display reads "BYPASS:SUB NO".

I suspect if you do the same except press [CD] and [MODE] simultaneously it will work.

Give it a try and see...

[jimmyp58]

Thanks brucek. I got a reply over at audiocircle too. A SP 1.7 owner wrote:

"you have to use the discrete codes off the remote namely 060"

"code"
"mute" for 0
"stereo" for 6
"mute" for 0

"you should see on the SP 1.7 display a "sub bypass on/off"

"just remember that a full range signal will be sent to your sub output so you will have to have to find a way to externally cross over that output outside of the Bryston SP 1.7 (e.g., on the sub itself)"

I'll try both to see which works and when it does, how the response is.

Jim

[brucek]

you have to use the discrete codes off the remote

Kinda neat, your remote has a discrete code button - I see that in the manual now, along with a chart of which button represents which code.

I went to the Bryston site and sure enough in Bryston / Technical / Memorandums / , there is a downloadable pdf of all discrete codes (SP1.7 IR-Codes). The pdf list shows:
Bypass Sub On/off = 060

Well, now you know you have the feature...... :T

[jimmyp58]

Yesterday I watched/listened to a couple of movies and a concert in DTS. I noticed a much more distinct, clear, and accurate center channel response than my previous pre/pro. Has that been other's findings?

Jim