Club Musical Fidelity

[alebonau]

Is anyone out there using a CD Pre 24? I finally picked one up for my office system. What an outstanding piece of equipment. My speakers dissappear on my desk and I have this little 5 foot wide soundstage in front of me on my desk. I am using a pair of ERA DEsign 5 speakers (made by the importers of Musical Fidelity equipment). Great little setup.

nice one dm3000, presuming your speakers are of the active/powered kind ?

[DM3000 Owner]

nice one dm3000, presuming your speakers are of the active/powered kind ?

No, they are normal speakers. I was going to buy a pair of B&W N805's, but they are really too big for my desk (and expensive). A forum member on the B&W thread recommended the ERA's. They are great little speakers. I use The CD pre 24, a Rotel tuner, and internet radio from my computer as sources and a QSC 1202 200 wpc amp. I had the amp in storage.

I am considering an A3cr or A308CR power amp, but quite honestly, it sounds great as is. I like that the QSC has volume pots so that I can adjust it where I use a good amount of the volume control for low level listening.

I have an A308 CR preamp and CD player in my main system and having an "extra" matching power amp (the A308CR) would not be a bad thing.

[David.M]

A5cr pre/pwr

My first post. I've had my A5cr pre/pwr for 18mths or so, previously had the A5 integrated for 6mths which my dealer kindly refunded in full when I bought the pre/pwr.
I to have the slightest of a hum from the speakers but is not audible more than 6 inches from each speaker.
I did have a very audible mechanical hum from the pwr amp which was unbearable. At 3 metres from the speakers is was distinctly audible between songs and quiet parts of the music. It eventuated this was caused by a problem with my mains. Back at the dealer with my pwr amplifier there was no hum so they loaned me a locally made Thor PS10 Power Station, it cleans incoming mains and regulates output voltage. The mechanical hum disappeared instantly. Interestingly I had not experiences the hum with the A5 Integrated but have since read a review of the Naim PS555 power supply (very high end) in which a comment was made regarding the occasional mechanical hum from that unit. I've since learnt that the bigger a transformer the more susceptible it is to hum from poor quality mains.

For what its worth, the difference between the Integrated and pre/pwr is night and day. More extension and control in the bottom end, clarity and extension at the top, just faster and greater impact overall. Vocals and instruments just sound more real and this was noticeable from the first song. The drums on 'While my heart is still beating' (Roxy Music - Avalon) were always powerful but with the pre/pwr it feels like you are being hit in the chest.

The rest of my music system comprises a NAD542C, Monitor Audio GR20's, Chord Signature interconnects (x 2) and Signature speaker cable.
I'm about ready to upgrade my CD, have been thinking of the Esoteric X-03SE. Anyone had any experience with this player? I'm working towards replacing the GR20's with something like the new PL300's or B&W 803D's. No plans to replace the A5's though, I've yet to hear anything available in AUS at even double the price which sounds better to me.

[alebonau]

My first post. I've had my A5cr pre/pwr for 18mths or so, previously had the A5 integrated for 6mths which my dealer kindly refunded in full when I bought the pre/pwr.
I to have the slightest of a hum from the speakers but is not audible more than 6 inches from each speaker.
I did have a very audible mechanical hum from the pwr amp which was unbearable. At 3 metres from the speakers is was distinctly audible between songs and quiet parts of the music. It eventuated this was caused by a problem with my mains. Back at the dealer with my pwr amplifier there was no hum so they loaned me a locally made Thor PS10 Power Station, it cleans incoming mains and regulates output voltage. The mechanical hum disappeared instantly. Interestingly I had not experiences the hum with the A5 Integrated but have since read a review of the Naim PS555 power supply (very high end) in which a comment was made regarding the occasional mechanical hum from that unit. I've since learnt that the bigger a transformer the more susceptible it is to hum from poor quality mains.

For what its worth, the difference between the Integrated and pre/pwr is night and day. More extension and control in the bottom end, clarity and extension at the top, just faster and greater impact overall. Vocals and instruments just sound more real and this was noticeable from the first song. The drums on 'While my heart is still beating' (Roxy Music - Avalon) were always powerful but with the pre/pwr it feels like you are being hit in the chest.

The rest of my music system comprises a NAD542C, Monitor Audio GR20's, Chord Signature interconnects (x 2) and Signature speaker cable.
I'm about ready to upgrade my CD, have been thinking of the Esoteric X-03SE. Anyone had any experience with this player? I'm working towards replacing the GR20's with something like the new PL300's or B&W 803D's. No plans to replace the A5's though, I've yet to hear anything available in AUS at even double the price which sounds better to me.

hi david, welcome to club MF !

interesting on your experience there david and the difference the thor made.

agree with you in regards the a5 pre-pwr I too demoed just about everything in the shop before buying and very happy with its performance. very much agree with the improvement over the A5 integrated, which is a very capable integrated in its self and show how good a 2ch integrated can be. but yeah the pre-pwr is certainly still a good step up.

interestign you mention the MA GR20, I actually heard the MA GS60 off an MF AfCD-integrated combo and very much liked it. I run the focal utopia diva's a mains myself and think the focal - mf match is a good one too, perhaps some focals worth checkign out ? aditionally have you heard any pmc speakers ? and yeah the B&ws I've heard have sounded pretty nice on the end of mf gear as well.

inregards CD player, I'm sure the esoteric would be very yummy, have you considered the a5cd to go with your pre-pwr a very nice match, plus some other nice disc players have come across is the marantz sa11 though yeah probably countless other options in and around the $4k mark.

[David.M]

hi david, welcome to club MF !

interesting on your experience there david and the difference the thor made.

agree with you in regards the a5 pre-pwr I too demoed just about everything in the shop before buying and very happy with its performance. very much agree with the improvement over the A5 integrated, which is a very capable integrated in its self and show how good a 2ch integrated can be. but yeah the pre-pwr is certainly still a good step up.

interestign you mention the MA GR20, I actually heard the MA GS60 off an MF AfCD-integrated combo and very much liked it. I run the focal utopia diva's a mains myself and think the focal - mf match is a good one too, perhaps some focals worth checkign out ? aditionally have you heard any pmc speakers ? and yeah the B&ws I've heard have sounded pretty nice on the end of mf gear as well.

inregards CD player, I'm sure the esoteric would be very yummy, have you considered the a5cd to go with your pre-pwr a very nice match, plus some other nice disc players have come across is the marantz sa11 though yeah probably countless other options in and around the $4k mark.

Thanks for the welcome.

Haven't heard any pmc's and will certainly give the Focal 1037Be a listen when the time comes. The Focal's I have heard are very good mid and high but seem to be a little light on in the base. The MA's have such great detail and speed with enough bottom end for my liking. The GR20's 3yrs ago cost nearly what the GS60's are now, not happy jan!. If I get the front end right I figure the A5's will justify a decent upgrade in speaker.

I have home tested the A5CD but was a bit disappointed. Admittedly it was not long after I went from the Integrated to the pre/pwr and was probably expecting too much. The attractiveness with the Esoteric is the pricing here in Aus and the great reviews from anyone who have listened to it. Have listened to the CDX2/PS555 (with NAP300) and yes it was good, but the cost is frightening.
Can you offer you opinion. I have gained significant improvements when I upgraded the amps and again when I introduced the Chord Signature cabling (replaced Tara Labs prism nexa speaker/Chord Chorus interconnect). Can I expect similar gains from a CD of the likes of the X-03SE.

regards David

[alebonau]

Thanks for the welcome.

Haven't heard any pmc's and will certainly give the Focal 1037Be a listen when the time comes. The Focal's I have heard are very good mid and high but seem to be a little light on in the base. The MA's have such great detail and speed with enough bottom end for my liking. The GR20's 3yrs ago cost nearly what the GS60's are now, not happy jan!. If I get the front end right I figure the A5's will justify a decent upgrade in speaker.

I have home tested the A5CD but was a bit disappointed. Admittedly it was not long after I went from the Integrated to the pre/pwr and was probably expecting too much. The attractiveness with the Esoteric is the pricing here in Aus and the great reviews from anyone who have listened to it. Have listened to the CDX2/PS555 (with NAP300) and yes it was good, but the cost is frightening.
Can you offer you opinion. I have gained significant improvements when I upgraded the amps and again when I introduced the Chord Signature cabling (replaced Tara Labs prism nexa speaker/Chord Chorus interconnect). Can I expect similar gains from a CD of the likes of the X-03SE.

regards David

hi david,

the pmcs are excellent speakers especially the FB1's and the OB1's, re the MA's I understand the GR series MA never got quite right the current gold series though well worth checkign out found lovely vocals top end and bottom end from the GS60s I checked out a very even handed speaker I found.

Inregards the focals, my divas definitely not light on in the bass, I havent heard the 1037, the 1027 I demoed a few times but never found them quite spot on for what I was after. With the focals the run in on the mid and bass drivers do take an inordinate amount of time so perhaps that was a factor so do make sure you demo a well run in pair if checking them out. the 1037 I imagien woudl hav more on the botom end than the 1027's but what ever you do dont listen to any of the focal utopia's ! hehe lovely vocals from the midrange jsut rich and warm, a lovely top end and a bottom end with punch and drive.

in regards sources, you might find the differences between them more subtle than amplifier changes or speakers, but certainly you can get some charecter differences between the brands and especially if considering any players with valves on their end. pity the mf a5cd was not to your liking, I personally found it a perfect match in my setup. The esoteric stuff defintely on the pricey end, if you can make sure you try get a home demo on any yoru considering as well to make sure its giving you the benefit your looking for. personally though I'd probably get your speaker side sorted first as much larger changes likley to occur there dependign on the brand type you end up getting.

[nektarios]

Hi guys.

I finally managed to find the KW500 and the KW550. At present I have just the former and waiting for the latter which is still in some depot. I'll try and give a differences summary - I have already told you my thoughts about the A5 Int and A5 Pre-Pow.

It's a bit early and when I get the KW550 I'll start moving the GR20 speakers around too, but up to now the KW500 has similar sonic traits to the A5 int - leaner sound and hence smaller soundstage, very polite - noway near the A5 Pre-Pow wow factor which seems to give a holographic soundstage and more musical detail too! I just hope the KW550 goes for a sonic signature somehow similar to A5 Pre Pow... If confused, I'll borrow the A5 Pre-Pow again... So a bit uncomfortable for a couple of days - imagine when I received the KW500 I thought they were bringing me a washing machine! Box inside another carton box with all the protection foam bits...

When I finish my tests I'll describe the good and bad. I hope I like one of them and keep it...

[nektarios]

Roll - gybe, Aechmea hi.

I get exactly the same effect with the X-150 amp. There are some times that when I try to increase or decrease the volume the dial just starts moving and doesn't stop.

What I noticed is that the amp, if it does it, then it's always when it is well warmed up. Placing my hand in front of the remote control to block any signals doesn't help it.

I have to turn the dial manually, or switch off the amp, and then it gets working OK again.

I personally think it is something to do with the mechanism inside the amp to rotate the knob a certain amount. For some reason it starts turning but doesn't stop.

In my case this is totally random, so potentially in your case too all the interelationships you try to establish maybe pure coincidence.

It doesn't matter if it does it on trying to decrease the volume but on increase it is startling! I hope the KWs don't suffer something similar, otherwise the building might collapse!

[nektarios]

Hi David.M!

I didn't realise you were referring to the new Monitor Audio PL300 speakers. Have you listened to them?

I had a listen in my usual Hi-Fi shop I go to, and they seem to have such a resolution that this expensive futuristic (don't remember the model) Chord CD and Amp sounded as if I was listening to some mp3s! I could not enjoy the sound - maybe they need "warmer" gear - not sure. Or very good for SACD?

By the way, what was the sonic aspect you didn't like about the A5CD? I have the X-Ray V3 as a transport feeding a TriVista 21 Dac and found the A5CD having similar sonic signature to my setup. With the GR20s, when I home-demoed the A5 Pre-Pow in my room, the bass was a bit much - I think the A5 Pre-Pow has a tube like sound a warm and forgiving character - with KW500 is on the other side of the pendulum: actually it seems as if there is no bass!

I haven't established the GR20 sonic character yet, but I think it tends on the lean side (unless they are not run-in yet even though I bought them 2nd hand from ebay). In comparison, the S6s have a much mellower and relaxing sound whether I use the KW500 or my X-150 (which is bass lighter in comparison but really enjoyable too).

There are people that say on reviews that they found GR20s more open that the 803s. For sure the combination of source + amp + speakers + room is rather tricky to get it right (plus the personal preferences). So good luck anyway! Please keep coming back from time to time telling us your findings too.

[Denton]

Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3 issue (?)

I have put together a modest system for music. I am having one bit of odd behavior from it:

Natalie P speakers
M&K V-100 12" powered sub
Bel Canto S300iUSB integrated amplifier
Toshiba SD-6200 DVD player (CD transport)
Dell PC with M-Audio 2496 soundcard

I own modest Monster cables and generic 12 ga speaker wire. When I am listening to music ripped onto the computer, and I turn on the lights (fluorescent) in the adjacent kitchen, there is a momentary muting of the music! Note that the M-Audio soundcard is connected to the X-DAC with a digital coax cable; the Toshiba transport is connected via a Toslink cable.

I suspect this relates to the sensitivity of some piece of digital equipment to slight fluctuations in AC voltage. Which one(s)? Any other guesses or suggested fixes? Thanks for any help.

[Yasvanth]

:T [b] A Very Merry Christmas And A Happy New Year

To All Mf Owners Around The World!

Yas

[Robbo1]

PMC's

I own the PMC OB1's and found that these did not match the A3 pre / power I had. The bass just did nothing for me and I had been advised by at least one retailed that B & W's were a better match for Musical Fidelity. Howewer, having spent close to £3k I was loathe to change them, particularly as they had sounded so good in the shop with a better amp.

In the end I got a 2nd hand TriVista and have to say that for the first time in 10 years any thought of upgrading my system has gone. I also had all Nordost Red Dawn cables and found that adding an Atlas cable between the CD & Amp brought a touch of warmth without any loss of speed.

[uncle_dito]

I own the PMC OB1's and found that these did not match the A3 pre / power I had. The bass just did nothing for me and I had been advised by at least one retailed that B & W's were a better match for Musical Fidelity. Howewer, having spent close to £3k I was loathe to change them, particularly as they had sounded so good in the shop with a better amp.

In the end I got a 2nd hand TriVista and have to say that for the first time in 10 years any thought of upgrading my system has gone. I also had all Nordost Red Dawn cables and found that adding an Atlas cable between the CD & Amp brought a touch of warmth without any loss of speed.

Hi Robbo1,
Is the MF Trivista you got a CD player, or the AMP?
Happy new year

[Robbo1]

Uncle Ditto,

It is the amp. I am using it with a 308 cd which I find a good match. I haven't heard the TriVista CD but I am not certain my floor would take the extra weight. I do like the look and sound of Musical Fidelity equipment but it's a pity they aren't more 'family friendly'.

Neil

[uncle_dito]

Uncle Ditto,

It is the amp. I am using it with a 308 cd which I find a good match. I haven't heard the TriVista CD but I am not certain my floor would take the extra weight. I do like the look and sound of Musical Fidelity equipment but it's a pity they aren't more 'family friendly'.

Neil

Hi Robbo,
Thanks for the clarification. Your PMC OB1 speakers have 86-87db sensibility, so probably explains the success of the Trivista (350Watts/Ch at 8 Ohm? 8O ), plus the Trivista does seem to have excellent quality.
Given your statement on having reached your sound nirvana, I was wondering if the difference could have been made by a an excellent CD player, therefore my question.

[johnecuevas]

Hi Guys

Interesting to read that the KW500 sounds weight-lighter than the A5 Pre-Pow.
Heard from various sources that the Cyrus 8x CD and MF A5 CD player sounds
good too. I'm looking for that open, expressive, vocal delivery, sweet, detailed
instrumental supporting background sound, rounded, and little forward but not
too bright sound. Anyone audition these 2 CD players before ~ thanks.

Johne.

[David.M]

Hi David.M!

I didn't realise you were referring to the new Monitor Audio PL300 speakers. Have you listened to them?

I had a listen in my usual Hi-Fi shop I go to, and they seem to have such a resolution that this expensive futuristic (don't remember the model) Chord CD and Amp sounded as if I was listening to some mp3s! I could not enjoy the sound - maybe they need "warmer" gear - not sure. Or very good for SACD?

By the way, what was the sonic aspect you didn't like about the A5CD? I have the X-Ray V3 as a transport feeding a TriVista 21 Dac and found the A5CD having similar sonic signature to my setup. With the GR20s, when I home-demoed the A5 Pre-Pow in my room, the bass was a bit much - I think the A5 Pre-Pow has a tube like sound a warm and forgiving character - with KW500 is on the other side of the pendulum: actually it seems as if there is no bass!

I haven't established the GR20 sonic character yet, but I think it tends on the lean side (unless they are not run-in yet even though I bought them 2nd hand from ebay). In comparison, the S6s have a much mellower and relaxing sound whether I use the KW500 or my X-150 (which is bass lighter in comparison but really enjoyable too).

There are people that say on reviews that they found GR20s more open that the 803s. For sure the combination of source + amp + speakers + room is rather tricky to get it right (plus the personal preferences). So good luck anyway! Please keep coming back from time to time telling us your findings too.

nectorios

So far I've only had a good look at the PL300's, very classy, will be putting some time aside in a month or so to listen. Re the A5CD, it's over 12mths now since I listened to it but there just didn't seem to be an easily noticeable difference to the sound coming from the NAD542C (which cost me a sixth of the price of the A5). I understand diminishing returns but similar or less spending % wise on Amp, speakers & cabling saw substantial gains, likewise when I put some effort into my room acoustics. Maybe I'm expecting too much from a CD change. I'm very happy with the GR20's, love the detail and speed but we all get that upgrade bug. I have them .5m clear of rear and 1m from side walls & find the base controlled and reasonably deep. They'll make great HT surrounds down the track, hopefully I will like the 300's. Hopefully I'll find some worthwhile improvement in a CD and can then look at some speakers. Its been suggested I should do the speakers first but I've put some effort into getting my wife to accept my spending on a new CD!! Whilst I was thinking of the Esoteric X-03SE, I've found a dealer selling the new Leema Antilla which is half the cost and has great reviews. Will have a listen shortly.

[nektarios]

Hi Guys

Interesting to read that the KW500 sounds weight-lighter than the A5 Pre-Pow.
Heard from various sources that the Cyrus 8x CD and MF A5 CD player sounds
good too. I'm looking for that open, expressive, vocal delivery, sweet, detailed
instrumental supporting background sound, rounded, and little forward but not
too bright sound. Anyone audition these 2 CD players before ~ thanks.

Johne.

Hi Johne.

Yes, the KW500 in combination with GR20s seems to give a lean sound, but the amp has amazing dynamics, grip, delicacy, extreme neutrality, and although leaner it captures voices (a second voice accompanying the main one) even better than the A5 pre-pow. For the mids to open up a bit I have to turn the volume dial about 9:30 or 10:00 o'clock position (volume dial starts at 7:00 o'clock), but still nowhere near the synergy of the A5 pre-pow + GR20 giving a real-life soundstage at the same volume setting (a5 pre-pow has less watts but more current delivery!). Of course all this could be my room acoustics too - can't be sure with sound! I am still waiting for the KW550 to compare. But I borrowed the A5 pre-pow again and the two cousins have totally different sonic signature. I hope the KW550 is more like the A5 pre-pow but having the rest of the KW500 good attributes!

I have heard both the Cyrus 8X CD and the A5CD although not back to back; I was comparing the Cyrus CD against the MF A3.2 CD player. At that point in time I was connecting the CDs to the Denon 3803 AV amplifier + MA S6s. I loved the sound of the Cyrus 8X CD. You could follow the music so easily and you could hear everything. I borrowed their audio interconnect too which seems to clear the sound a lot and it was impressive, but the singer literally came forward too. The MF A3.2 CD was amazing also - it was the first time I felt such a quiet background (when music was low for example). Because the A3.2 had a bit more bass in some frequency range, the vocals had real emotion, but somehow had a very exciting sound on rock music too. At the end I bought the MF A3.2 CD.

I then got the TriVista 21 DAC because of the 3-dimensionality it was giving in both the soundstage and the individual voices and instruments. Most CD players on their own sound flat to me compared to the sound out of this DAC. The DAC basically takes the sound signature of the transport and adds all this harmonic richness, the extra bass for all this soundstage ambience information, the "air" around the instruments and vocals, buckets of detail and musical info for that amazing feel of listening to the real thing. So it is very dependent on the transport used (maybe similar effect to the 550K superchargers being dependent to the driving amp's sonic sig?).

I then got the X-Ray V3 that has same Philips transport as the A5CD, and the X-150 amp. I hooked them up with the TriVista DAC. There was a point I was testing the DAC and borrowed the A5CD. I was impressed with the smoothness, refined sound, and detail of this CD player. Playing back to back with X-Ray V3 + TriVista 21 DAC and the A5CD using the X-150 amp and Monitor Audio S6 speakers, I couldn't tell the difference between the sources.

So here is the catch! The TriVista 21 DAC has two sampling modes, the 96KHz and the 192KHz. I find the 96KHz harmonically richer, more bite to the music, more ambience, and natural bass. The 192KHz sounds smoother (rounded) but with clear highs, the bass tighter, more etched sound and less harmonics and that helps some types of music but not generous to others (vocals). A5CD is in permanent 192KHz but has different valves, it's one piece and hence does not depend on extra cables and other factors so the A5CD 192KHz could well combine the good aspects of both my 96KHz and 192KHz. Plus that time I was testing using the X-150 amp only.

Below I write my findings for X-Ray V3 + TriVista 21 DAC which I don't know if it really helps you.

Using the X-150 + S6 the 192KHz sounds refined but energetic, cymbals sound like the real thing. In 96KHz there is more atmosphere, harmonics, and need to block the ports to control booming in my room, but the sound is awesome.

Using the A5 pre-pow and GR20s, the 96KHz sounds absolutely amazing, but the 192KHz sounds mute and blunt.

With the KW500 and GR20s, the 96KHz sounds very nice, but the 192KHz sounds very artificial - the soundstage moves further back but the sound lacks excitement - too smooth and strange sound.

What I want to say here is not whether 192KHz or A5CD is good or bad, but the source is very dependent on amp plus speakers. So, it is very important to hear, if you can, a particular source in your particular system with a variety of music types in order to get a true feel of the component's character and how it affects the rest of the system when used together. Personally I believe the source to be a very important part of the chain.

[nektarios]

Alebonau, David.M hi!

I agree with David.M that the GR20s have amazing speed and, detail resolving character especially in highs and mids. Bass is very good too but needs good electronics to keep it under control. So it needs to be carefully partnered.

I agree with some other people on the net, to get the sweet detailed treble and the magical mids in that extended frequency window thing that MA boasts, you need to have a valve stage in the CD or preamp. High current delivery is needed for controlling the bass.

I have heard the GS and it's nice and more balanced but somehow it didn't give for me that magic I get with the GR series when carefully partnered.

By the way, I borrowed the A5 pre-pow again with my usual setup (X-Ray V3 + TriVista 21 Dac) and:

a5 pre-pow + GR20 excellent
a5 pre-pow + GR20 + front ports blocked: absolutely awesome and the only way!

Probably this could be my room, but although I have the speakers at least half metre from the back wall and many more from any sides, by using the foam bangs in the front firing ports (they are tuned to 30Hz) I got those amazing mids out that I had only heard from the GR10s driven by a powerful amp (don't remember which). But, although with the S6 speakers blocking the ports thins the whole sound (partnered with X-150 amp), it's not the case with the GR20s: the standmount's amazing accuracy and detail came out but with the floorstander's depth and bass and full sound without anything else interfering. It's the first time I heard double bass and cello so voluminous but so well defined at all the usual listening volume levels, not just low. Unbelievable!

David.M, even if you don't get any bloom or boominess, did you ever try blocking the front firing ports with the provided foam bangs and see how this affects the sound?

By the way, GRs are real donkeys to run in. What I found from personal experience even with the S6s, even after 6 months playing at normal listening levels they were not run in - I realised they actually need some "thrashing" that I gave them by total mistake! So having the experience, only the power of the A5 pre-pow around 2 o'clock sorted out the edginess in the GR20s (as other people say, these speakers hate being transported!) using some song from Secret Garden with cello and piano. It took the power of the mighty KW500 around 2 o'clock for about 15-20 seconds (I couldn't stand the sound pressure for longer!) to make them sweet and mellower and tighten the bass too!

David.M I think the reason you saw such a big improvement when you switched from A5 int to A5 pre-pow is because the GR20s are fast and super resolving and the A5 int has a lean sonic signature - hence not a good match. I get something similar with the KW500 too. The A5 pre-pow has a fuller sound plus it has 200A compared to the A5's 75A. I didn't like the A5 int at all neither with the S6s nor with the GR20s. Maybe with different speakers it is OK, not sure, but I prefer huge soundstage vistas with instruments and musicians sounding as if they are in front of you, not just "hi-fi" sound.

I haven't heard the Esoteric X-03SE CD you mention - some people on the net describe it as bright at times, but not sure what amp and speakers had.

I also had the chance to listen to the PL300 again with some jazz and they sounded nice but "thin". These are speakers that definitely need valve stage and A5 pre-pow character! It looks as if their tweeter's are ribbon and it sounds nice.

Good luck with the upgrades - tell us your findings as you mix and match with your existing system!

[Yasvanth]

Hi

By reading some of the letters here about the MF A5cr Pre & A5cr Pwr amps looks like this pair will become legends very shortly.

Yas

[nick.h]

Hi All,

Just wondering how I can add a subwoofer into the mix with my 2 channel system.

Ive noticed on the back of the A5cr Power Amplifier it has an output L & R channel, could I use these to run to the subwoofer?

Anyone else using a subwoofer with dedicated 2 channel?

[alebonau]

Hi All,

Just wondering how I can add a subwoofer into the mix with my 2 channel system.

Ive noticed on the back of the A5cr Power Amplifier it has an output L & R channel, could I use these to run to the subwoofer?

Anyone else using a subwoofer with dedicated 2 channel?

yep just run L&R out from the pwr amp off to the L&R input on the sub or each L & R output to separate L & R subs.

[Yasvanth]

Hi everybody,

Does anybody use Nordost interconnects and spk cables with there MF amps, and do you think it is a suitable match?

I am already using Nordost Red Dawn interconnects to connect my MF A5cr Pre & A5cr Pwr amps together and was wondering whether by changing my spk cables also to Nordost will show improvements sound wise.

Yas

[rfmiami]

Hello All,

This is my first post, although I have been following this forum for some time and it has been extremely helpful to me. I have just purchased my first "real" system consisting of MF A5cr Pre, A5cr Pwr Amp A5 CDP with Vandersteen Quatros and straightwire speakerwire and interconnects

The system was just installed three weeks ago and I have been enjoying it ever since. (it seems I am up every night to the early morning trying to work my through my entire music and dvd collection. My wife says this system will be the death of me!) After reading all the posts I am very pleased to report no hum. I am new to this hobby but the other descriptions I have read in this forum seem to mirror my own experience. Fantastic detail, speed and soundstage particularly considering most of my listening occurs at lower levels ( I cant seem to get above the 12 o'clock position). I really enjoy music and it has been my dream to one day have a nice system and I must say I am very pleased. The only problem is I am quickly distinguishing betwen the good and bad recordings in my collection. As well as dealing with the challenging acoustics of my listening/family room. Still wonderful all the same.

[Yasvanth]

Hi mate,

I totally agree with you about your description of the MF A5cr Pre & A5cr Pwr amplifiers. They are just top class!

What sort of music roks your boat?

Also what sort of speakers are you using with the MF A5 amps?

Happy Listening

Yas

[rfmiami]

Hi Yas,

I really enjoy all types of music although my emphasis seems to be on classical and jazz. I am using vandersteen quatros with my mf gear and they seem to be a nice match. They love the power supplied by the mf amp and are very honest and revealing.

[nektarios]

Hi to all.

I finally got the KW550 too. The amp is running in for the time being, but my initial impressions are similar to Uncle Ditto's description of the A1008 sound: sweet, mellow, smooth. This amp seems to be very revealing not in the sense of bright, but detail retrieval. It sounds beautiful when using a CD player on its own. With the TriVista 21 DAC it's a total different matter. The latter extracts buckets of detail from the CDs but still sounds incredibly musical, it gives a huge soundstage and instruments sound real and have amazing presence. When using the TriVista 21 DAC with the KW550 (and GR20s) I get something that I never got with any other amp: you just hear everything at the same time. So sounds that are in the background and amps present them so, with this combination they are brought to your attention clearly, to the point that it becomes startling. For sure you hear things you never realised they existed before, but that's a double sword: sometimes it distracts you from music (if you know the song quite well) which is not enjoyable, but other times it makes music very real, especially on live recordings. I was very surprised when sounds that I thought were a bass line, in reality (i.e. via KW550!) is that plus the deep voice of a singer clear and present! Where the soft background sound of a violin sounds almost like a smooth movement of the bow, with the KW550 it becomes perfectly clear that the sound is the result of very quick short opposing strokes! Remember, I am talking about background little sounds that on other amps don't even make it to the soundstage sometimes.

KW500 has super attack and transients but can sound bright, KW550 is so mellow and the music just flows, plus creates a soundstage not sure how! I mean with both KW500 and KW550 I don't use the port blockers. With A5 pre-pow I get the soundstage but must block the speaker ports to really enjoy.

This weekend I'll try to borrow the A5 pre-pow again and spend some time listening to all three and decide which one to go for. I'll move speakers around plus try the A3.2 CD too on its own and as a transport + TriVista DAC, as it seems the KW550 really exposes a source's capabilities... The KW550 sound though seems to be winning me although it needs some time to get used to as it is too sweet especially connected to the DAC!

[Yasvanth]

Hello Nektarios,

What sort of interconnects and speaker cables were u using to test the MF KW500 and KW 550?

Anyway keep us posted on your reviews.

Cheers

Yas

[nektarios]

Hi Yas.

For the audio interconnects I use QED Silver Spiral and for the speaker ones the Monitor Audio cable they use inside their speakers.

When borrowing the A5 pre-pow I also borrow the audio interconnects for them but don't know what make they are. If I remember I'll ask the guys at the hi-fi shop.

I have made notes on the difference it makes to the sound when the speaker cables are plain wire vs bananas (speaker side) with the A5 pre-pow and the KW500. I'll post everything when I am hopefully done with the tests!

Happy New Year by the way and all the best to all of us!

Nektarios

[AlanB]

What a change

Using a Nu Vista M3, A5 CDP I have replaced some cabling and speakers. I have had some hand made cables made for the Amplifier - umbilical and twin PSU's and power cable and a power cable for the A5 plus an interconnect. These are from Revelation Audio Labs in Florida. What an improvement. I then changed my B & W 805S's for Merlin TSM-MX standmounts (see Audio review.com and you will see what I mean). Made the B & W's sound coloured and muddy. I then changed my Chord Epic speaker cable to Audience Au24 and to top it all off I added the Isotek Sigmas Power Conditioner. Unbelievable!! This is Hi Fi Heaven!!
By the way because of the weak dollar the Revelation Audio stuff is good value.

[hifidez]

X-PreV3

I have just bought a brand new X-PreV3 pre-amp at a good price. The service too was excellent. The company is Lintone Audio based in the North-East of England; they sell through Ebay too which is where I discovered them while watching for a secondhand bargain (actually fancied the 3.2CR pre to match my power amp).

They have X-PreV3's at around £220 (!) plus £15 for delivery; the orginal price was £799. These items are new, factory sealed boxes, with the full 2 years warranty. I am not in any way linked with Lintone - I just wanted to point out these potential bargains to other MF fans here in the UK.

Have had mine for a week now and I am very very pleased with it. Took the casing off yesterday to peek inside and take some pics. The transformer is HUGE for a pre-amp; the power supply looks just like the one in the X-80 integrated.... it's a very big transformer for just a pre-amp. I have upgraded from a home-made passive pre and I am enjoying the extra 'grunt' that this fine preamp gives. MM phono section is no 'freebee' either. It's good. The amp was good at £799 - must be unbeatable at £220. This is better than a typical secondhand price.

Sorry to go on about it - I am so pleased with my X-PreV3.

Regards,

Derek

[hifidez]

X-PreV3

Link for other MF items too:

http://www.lintone.co.uk/used_amps.htm

The X-PreV3 is listed at £239 here but it is cheaper through their Ebay store I believe.

D.

[Yasvanth]

Hello

Does anybody use Nordost interconnects and spk cables with there MF hifi equipment and is it a perfect match?

Thanks
Yas

[hifidez]

Hello

Does anybody use Nordost interconnects and spk cables with there MF hifi equipment and is it a perfect match?

Thanks
Yas

If the cables and interconnects are of sufficient length to link the equipment together then you will have a perfect match ! ;-)

Derek

[alebonau]

I have just bought a brand new X-PreV3 pre-amp at a good price. The service too was excellent. The company is Lintone Audio based in the North-East of England; they sell through Ebay too which is where I discovered them while watching for a secondhand bargain (actually fancied the 3.2CR pre to match my power amp).

They have X-PreV3's at around £220 (!) plus £15 for delivery; the orginal price was £799. These items are new, factory sealed boxes, with the full 2 years warranty. I am not in any way linked with Lintone - I just wanted to point out these potential bargains to other MF fans here in the UK.

Have had mine for a week now and I am very very pleased with it. Took the casing off yesterday to peek inside and take some pics. The transformer is HUGE for a pre-amp; the power supply looks just like the one in the X-80 integrated.... it's a very big transformer for just a pre-amp. I have upgraded from a home-made passive pre and I am enjoying the extra 'grunt' that this fine preamp gives. MM phono section is no 'freebee' either. It's good. The amp was good at £799 - must be unbeatable at £220. This is better than a typical secondhand price.

Sorry to go on about it - I am so pleased with my X-PreV3.

Regards,

Derek

would love to see some inside shots derek, if you get the chance do upload them

[hifidez]

would love to see some inside shots derek, if you get the chance do upload them

Yep - will do so hopefully tomorrow or Friday.

Derek

[hifidez]

Image coming soon.

[hifidez]

I have just bought a brand new X-PreV3 pre-amp at a good price. The service too was excellent. The company is Lintone Audio based in the North-East of England; they sell through Ebay too which is where I discovered them while watching for a secondhand bargain (actually fancied the 3.2CR pre to match my power amp).

They have X-PreV3's at around £220 (!) plus £15 for delivery; the orginal price was £799. These items are new, factory sealed boxes, with the full 2 years warranty. I am not in any way linked with Lintone - I just wanted to point out these potential bargains to other MF fans here in the UK.

Have had mine for a week now and I am very very pleased with it. Took the casing off yesterday to peek inside and take some pics. The transformer is HUGE for a pre-amp; the power supply looks just like the one in the X-80 integrated.... it's a very big transformer for just a pre-amp. I have upgraded from a home-made passive pre and I am enjoying the extra 'grunt' that this fine preamp gives. MM phono section is no 'freebee' either. It's good. The amp was good at £799 - must be unbeatable at £220. This is better than a typical secondhand price.

Sorry to go on about it - I am so pleased with my X-PreV3.

Regards,

Derek

Here a couple of pics - can upload some more or send anyone higher es versions direct to anyone who wants a copy. Derek.

[Yasvanth]

Hi

As Derek has started the ball rolling with some great internal shots of his MF X-PreV3 amp, maybe some of you guys don't mind taking a couple of photos of the inside of the MF A5cr Pwr amp as I would dearly love to see what's inside of this magic box?

Thanks

Yas

[hifidez]

Here a couple of pics - can upload some more or send anyone higher es versions direct to anyone who wants a copy. Derek.

Notice in the second X-PreV3 picture that the power supply caps are 10000uF - in my old B200 (60+60 W) MF used 6800uF's - as I said the power supply would not look out of place in a power amp. I suspect that the X-PreV3 does use the same power supply section as the two integrated amps which were part of the range at that time (X-80 and x-150) - economies of scale? The transformer is labelled "X 80", which may, of couse, mean nothing.

Anyhow - this pre is wonderful - and now I have had time to listen further, the phono stage is a beaut. And I am only using a budget AT pickup. I would love to find a new stylus for my old AKG and see how it sounds then.

If anyone has the X-80 or X-150 I doubt these amps can be opend up easily as the power transistors are bolted onto the casing sides.

Derek

[hifidez]

Hi

As Derek has started the ball rolling with some great internal shots of his MF X-PreV3 amp, maybe some of you guys don't mind taking a couple of photos of the inside of the MF A5cr Pwr amp as I would dearly love to see what's inside of this magic box?

Thanks

Yas

I havent managed to open my A3.2cr power amp yet - I haven't the right head for my toolkit - but one day I must take a peek. This amp too is a good'un. Not much reviewed at the time; the A3 predecessor went down vey well with the reviewers so and maybe they didnt see too much different enough in 3.2 to attract their interest.

Derek

[alebonau]

Hi

As Derek has started the ball rolling with some great internal shots of his MF X-PreV3 amp, maybe some of you guys don't mind taking a couple of photos of the inside of the MF A5cr Pwr amp as I would dearly love to see what's inside of this magic box?

Thanks

Yas

hi yas, I'm pretty sure I posted pics of the a5cr earlier up in this thread. if looking for a peak inside.

derek, I have seen a few pics of the a3.2cr, very impressive underneath for sure. like the A5cr pwr amp the a3.2cr also has a pair of chokes and is a dual mono design.

[Yasvanth]

A CHANGE OF SPKS FOR MY MF A5cr PRE & PWR AMPS

Hi everybody,

I am using Kef Reference 1:2 Spks with my MF A5cr Pre & Pwr amplifiers, and maybe thinking of changing my spks to the PMC FB1+. Do you think these spks will be a suitable match for the MF amps?

I mostly listen to beaty driven music eg Dance, Pop, R'n'B and Rock music.


Also do you think it will be a good idea to change my spks, or will it just be a side step move?

Your opinions will be very useful.

Yas

[nektarios]

A5 pre-pow vs kW500 vs kW550 vs A1008; A1008 DAC vs Trivista 21 DAC

Hi to all.

I've completed the tests and I have a couple of corrections to make: "bass comes and goes unannounced" should be said for the kW series (especially the kW500) rather than the A5 pre-pow. Also, the kW500 has bass too, but very different to the A5 separates.

Source: X-Ray V3 + Trivista 21 DAC, speakers Monitor Audio GR20, audio interconnects QED Silver Spiral, Monitor Audio speaker biwired cables.

Source equipment always on Clearlight Aspekt rack.

The kW series really makes you realise what an amplifier is about. They are extremely neutral with no apparent emphasis on any frequency spectrum. Somehow they do not sound boring though - not really sure why. The sound is effortless, the transients and the impact impressive, the valve preamp giving smoothness and air to instruments but without sounding laidback. No matter how complex the music becomes they just tick along musically and you hear everything - amazing detail. The kW550 had an amazing soundstage and super natural voices. Also, the bass is very deep and extended.

I live on a 2nd floor; my floor has carpet and underneath suspended floorboards (the worse thing for hi-fi)... Everytime I was borrowing equipment I was placing it on the carpet close to my rack and was doing the listening tests. Unfortunately what I found out is that:

a) on equipment with the transformer externally ( kW500, kW550, A1008 ) placed on my floor, the bass becomes somehow diffused and lighter - mids and highs get emphasised
b) on equipment with the transformer internally (including A5 pre-pow) placed on my floor, the bass becomes emphasized (noise?) and fuller, empowering some mids but hiding others and the highs may loose incisiveness and focus - may sound edgy too.

So on the floor the kW500 sounded lean and sometimes bright (although somehow still neutral and you could hear everything). The kW550 sounded impressive with amazing resolution and presence with instruments, vocals, emotion, everything - it was the amplifier I was planning to go for. The A5 pre-pow on the floor sounded boomy, but when the front speaker ports were blocked it sounded a lot like the kW550 without the low frequency sound pressure, i.e. less weight but very enjoyable sound; also lacking on resolution, like when two voices were singing together for example.

The A1008 on my floor sounded smooth, detailed, neutral, but bright.

I decided to go for the kW550 and placed in on my Aspekt rack. I got the shock of my life; the sound came out as if somebody turned the tremble all the way down. I put it back on the floor and the great sound was back. I put it on the rack and again lifeless. I put it on a different rack and again dark sound. I removed the Trivista 21 DAC from the chain, put my CD player on the foor, but no difference. This made me wonder, so I put all the components on the racks and listened again.

The kW500 on the rack sounded as if the tremble was turned down although not as much as the kW550. Soundstage appeared articulate for the 1st time but there was this permanent low freq sound pressure that was spoiling the rest of the music.

The A5 pre-pow on the rack really shocked me too, but in a good way: the sound cleared up to the point the music sounded lithe and fast paced; I even thought it sounded lean! The bass was still there though, with fullness and no bloatness, extremely composed and very real. Very nice.

The A1008 on the rack gained weight and the brightness was gone. Very detailed and smooth sound, neutral and not laidback, with lows and highs extension, and no edginess - very natural sound. However, as my sources go for extension too, the sound lacked slam and impact.

When a few years ago I had heard the kW500 for the 1st time in SevenOaks and was utterly impressed, it was driving the Monitor Audio GS60 speakers. The bass was articulate and had a sense of ambience and realism. As a test we connected either the GR20 or the GS20 (don't remember exactly) and the base became pressurised hitting on the chest and the ears to the point that was unnatural, uncomfortable, and definitely the music lost realism and quality. It was not enjoyable and I remember I got up from the sofa and walked away - for my ears it was that bad!

Maybe the power of the kWs makes the drivers, as they say, barrel-chested, or there is all this extra low freq info that the GR20s don't know how to reproduce? So definitely with MAs, the 60s are much better match rather than the 20s with the kW series.

I also did an A/B comparison between the A1008 DAC and my Trivista 21 DAC (i.e. using the A1008 integrated). The A1008 DAC felt exactly the same with the Trivista 96KHz mode, except for some significant upper midbass and some mid emphasis. In A/B comparison the A1008 DAC sound appeared more exciting. However, when I went back to normal listening mode, I found that the Trivista 21 DAC was creating a more natural and mellow atmosphere - not exciting neither laidback, with voices having emotion; also the soundstage gained width.

So A/B testing is good to pinpoint the differences, but can be very misleading!

I think the A1008 integrated goes for extension and the DAC (maybe also the A1008 CD) goes for the slam and impact. Since the Trivista 21 DAC is a standalone DAC it is expected to be more neutral so there is better match with a wider selection of components?

Having the experience now with the amps at home, I think my mistake was to buy the GR20s because people say that the GR60s (or GS60s) have an extra driver that it just produces more bass. I am not so sure about that anymore, and it depends a lot on what amplifier was used. Definitely kWs shine on 60s not on 20s.

I really loved the sound of the kW550. But as I don't want to rely on particular flooring (what a nightmare!), either I get the A5 separates for my GR20s, or wait until I buy a proper place (on the rent at the moment!) get the kW550 and then go to the hifi shop with the amp and source and try to find appropriate speakers!

[alebonau]

interesting stuff nekt, the kw stuff even in appearance is quite something ! intersting to read oyour impressions there. wonder the effect of floor placement perhaps related to the valve/tube pre stage the kw550 has. With some valves are microphonic and maybe being impacted in this case with vibrations coming through the floor..