Rotel 1056 v. Denon 3805

[Scherr]

I have a Denon AVR-2800 running Paradigm studio 40's, 20's, and CC, v.2, and a PW-2200. Since the Denon 2800 only has preouts for the fronts and center and I use the "B" speaker input for a second zone so I need a new receiver rather then adding just an amp.

I am leaning toward the Rotel 1056 and using the Denon 2800 to power the back center surrounds and the second zone. The Denon 3805 would also be an option.

Any opinions? The Denon has more features, but I think the Rotel may have better sound quality. What about the hiss issue in the new Rotels?

What are the differences between the Rotel 1056 preamp section and 1068?

Thanks!

Scott

[Bam!]

Hi Scherr!

And welcome!

Here's a review on the Denon Denon review

also in that same area of the guide there other threads where they talk about the 3805...

As for me the colored sound of Denon amps....doesn' t do it for me....My personal pick is 1056....I too just went through lookin' at all the possibilites...and the 1056 was my winner...

2 channel sweet, wuiet...no not like a dedicated 2 channel...but none the less very good. The 5 channel processing...very clean and smooth detailing....the power....more than enough....if you don' t mind low gain volume controls !

Lots of bells and whistles...convert component to s video and vice versa...

Sweet machine1

I have heard about the hiss...mine doesn' t do it....dunno about it!

hope this helps!

[Azeke]

Scott,

The major difference in the 1056 vs. 1068, is that the 1056 is a receiver (tuner, 5.1 speakers), the 1068 is a dedicated pre-pro (which means you will need separate power amps). The decision will depend on your budget, and personal preferences. However, you can purchase the 1056 and utilize your current power amp, but other's who have had Denon power amps state that Rotel's power amps provide better acoustics.

Hope this helps,

Azeke

[aud19]

Well you are in Club Rotel, what did you expect But seriously, Rotel IMO, = better sounding gear. Denon = more features. You have to decide what's more important. As for the "hum issue", there were a few early units that got out with the problem, if you order a new unit there's next to no chance you'll get one that with the problem

Jason

[Scherr]

Thanks for all the advice. Strongly leaning to Rotel.

Scott

[Aussie Geoff]

I migrated from Denon to Rotel

Hi,

FYI - I migrated from the Denon 3802 to Rotel in two steps:

Added Rotel amps to the Denon's pre-outs - amazing improvement in dymamics, details, control etc hard to believe the difference until you heard it. After some listening I went for the RB-1080 for the front left and right and the RMB-1075 for the rest.

Then I swapped the Denon for a Rotel processor - and stereo came alive again, while HT gained even further 3D ambience and reality.

Couldn't recommend it highly enough. Especially with your quality (and power hungry) speakers.

Geoff

[GregoriusM]

Rotel with your Paradigms makes for sweet music indeed. :T

[Scherr]

Well, my Denon 2800 started going into protect mode while playing DVD's. I am thinking maybe the Rotel 1056 plus a 5 channel used amp. Hopefully, the hiss issue will be resolved!

Scott

[aud19]

Personally I'd probably do the 1056 and a 1070 two-channel amp or go all out and get the 1068 with the 1075.

Jason

[sdecker]

I alos went from a Denon 3802 to a RSX-1055. I was frankly amazed at the difference. The 1055 was a major upgrade in sound.

I dont think you will be dissapointed if you go with the RSX-1056.

Earle

[Andrew Pratt]

There's a lot of us Rotelphiles that have moved on from owning Denon's. Sure they seem to have more features but most of them I never needed and musically they're inferior to Rotel in just about every way.

[Scherr]

Thanks for all the tips. I have disconnected the Denon for fear of damaging my speakers since it has been shutting down during action scenes.

Is it worth the extra money to get a 1068 instead of 1056? It would result in having to get a two channel amp to power a second zone in addition to the 1075 and the 1068 is already more money. (The 1056 allows you to redirect the front channels to the second zone). I am lucky because my local dealer will give me 23% off list on all Rotel products.

Thanks!

Scott

[Scherr]

I e-mailed Rotel about the differences between the 1056 and 1068 and learned what you all probably already knew. There is no difference other than the fact that the 1056 has the amp and tuner:

"The only difference between these two units is that the 1056 has a built in amplifier and tuner and the 1068 does not have either of these. As far as redirecting the amp channels on the 1056, you can only redirect the front left and right channels. You can redirect them to either the center back or to zone 2.

Best Regards,
Shane Kea
Technical Support
B&W/Rotel"

[aud19]

Looks like you've got your answer Are you planning on getting the 1070 or 1080 for your mains?

Jason

[Scherr]

I think I am going to get the 1075 and power all 5 channels downstairs with it and reassign the internal amps to the second zone. I like the idea of having solid power to all 5 channels and my speakers in the second zone are not very good. Most of listening is movies and not music.

I guess I could hook up back center surrounds also, but what this make sense if they are inferior (30 year old Technics speakers)? Would I be better off just sticking with 5.1 until I can afford another pair of Paradigm Studio 20's?

Scott

[Scherr]

Rotel has clarified this information and there are other differences:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=7559

Scott

[shadow]

Has anyone directly compared the Denon 3805 and 1056. I am leaning toward the Denon because of its EQ feature, but music reproduction is equally important to me.

[zpanky]

I have not heard the 3805, but I have heard the Rotel 1055 vs the Denon 3803. In terms of musical quality, its not even close. Rotel amps are clearly superior. I have heard other Denon/Rotel comparisons in the past with prior models while going with friends shopping for receivers, so I knew what to expect. Denon is a very good brand. But if music is a priority, just listen to both and you will hear a clear difference. If 100% HT, then its a close decision, but for music...well, I've said my piece.

[shadow]

Have the amps in the 3805 been upgraded over the 3803?

[sirrichard33]

I will either buy a Denon 3805 or a Rotel RSX 1056 however, I was hoping for a little help understanding the wattage thing. If the 3805 has 120 wpc and the 1056 has 75 wpc and if playing movies and cd’s “loud” is my goal. Would I not want to stay with the higher wattage? Should I save my pennies and hold out for the RSX 1067?

I have a Yamaha with 100 wpc and do not want to step down in loudness however, I do want to step up in quality both the 3805 and the 1056 will increase my listening pleasure.
Any help would be good.
Thanks

Room size 13’ x 20’
Speakers
Klipsch front and rear (very efficient).
CD Player
Adcom
Dvd Player
JVC

[stantheman2]

I would not get too hung up on "rated" watts. I had a Denon 2700 receiver (rated at 80 watts times 5 channels) and I now have the Rotel 1056 receiver (rated 75 watts times five). The Rotel will play significantly louder and cleaner than my Denon ever could.

There is a post on another thread in Club Rotel about this. As I recall, one test report found that the Denon 3803 (the 3805's predecessor) was rated at 110 watts times seven channels, but when tested could only put out 50 watts into five channels. Whereas Rotel's always test at or higher than their, "rated" output, with ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN.

Rotel receivers have a more robust power supply and capacitor set than comparably priced Denon receivers, so they handle typical complex speaker loads better than a comparably priced Denon receiver that has a higher "rated" output. This translates into louder, much cleaner sound from the Rotel.

I hope this helps. Of couse, your ears should be the final judge.

[Scherr]

The Denon 3805 is rated 120 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. It can drive 7 channels, but will not at 120 watts per channel. Denon is also known for overrating its wattage.

The Rotel is rated 75 watts x 5 with ALL channels driven. If the Denon 3805 was driving all 7 channels, it would be far less than 120 watts per channel.

Mass market receivers rate their wattage with 2 channels driven because it results in a higher number and the receivers have far greater difficulty driving all of the channels.

I went from a Denon 2800 (85 watts per channel) to a Rotel 1056 (75 watts per channel) and the Rotel amps are far better. I bet the Denon 2800 played around 45-50 watts with all 5 channels driven.

Heck, I started this thread and bought the Rotel!

Scott

[glangston@socal]

Wattage ratings

I've had my Rotel 1056 hooked up for a few days now. I was told by the salesman that the Rotel tested over 100 watts per channel, 5 channels driven and what I hear tends to supprt that. The sound is so superior to my old set, a Denon pro-logic era surround, that it's enjoyable listening at all levels. I can hear accurately voices and sounds half-way through the house at moderate listening levels (@60). We watched HD TV last night with the volume at a fairly low level(42) and the voices were distinct and the detail still high. I think it sounds better in my house than it did at the dealer. I'm not knocking Denon but auditioning Rotel changed my mind on the matter fairly quickly. It impressed the wife too and that is a plus as she had no pre-conceptions going in.

[Bob Knarly]

This thread is one I know alot about.I owned a 3802/03/05,all very solid and never a problem.The 1056 is superior in sound and amps but not flexability or features.Since music is important I kept the 1056 but the hisssssss is very annoying,the Denons were dead quiet.I'll say once more I have owned the 1068 and it hissed also,the 1056 and 1067 hiss,every one I have ever heard in three states hissed.I been very patient with Rotel/dealer and so far its got me nowhere,and NO I'm not the only one that can hear it,my dealer did also,on every unit in his store.

[aud19]

Perhaps it's a break in thing Bob? I know when I first connected my 1066/1075 they had a bit of a hiss that made me do this :E :M but after a few weeks it all but dissapeared. (I also had new IC's and speaker cables so who knows which it was or if it was all of the above?) Now it's practically silent unless I stand with my ear inches from a speaker. Thankfully I don't do much listening in that manner :B I also know some of the earlier units of the new models released had a bit of a noise problem, if that's the case you should be able to exchange yours for a new one from the factory via your dealer. If he's not being cooperative regarding the matter try contacting Rotel directly and get them to contact your dealer.

As for the 75W of the 1056 I just want to re-iterate what the other folks have said. Rotel's figures are if anything quite modest where as most mass market brands over-state their power capabilities and publish wattage with two-channels driven as opposed to Rotels all channels driven.

Jason

[shadow]

Neither 1056 I have used or owned hisses at all. In fact,Bob, you are the only one I have seen on this forum or elsewhere who has complained about this problem. What speakers are you using?

[Bob Knarly]

Shadow,I suggest you search any popular site,avs etc...,read and you will see.Call my dealer and ask if every unit does not hiss,Wilder electronics,Louisville,KY.I been to Ohio,KY,and IN,THEY ALL HISSED,I own one and its still hissing and you are welcome to come to my house and hear it for yourself.I'll buy the gas and pay you 50 bucks if it does not hiss in all channels all the time,even in 2 ch mode with center and surrounds set to NONE.

[Bam!]

BoB....don' t get your panties bunched up on this one...I do feel for you....however I too have a 1056....and.....guess what....no hiss....

Now that obviously doesn' t mean yours doesn' t hiss......but it is peculiar.....when you say AVs.....I do visit there.....any thread you could guide me towards to see other guys complaining about this...

Hope this works out for you though....

Take care

[Bob Knarly]

If it werent' so sad it would be funny.I turned on my 1056 to listen to a new cd,after the cd I pushed the standy button and nuttin' happened.I tuned the volume and nuttin' happened,pushed inputs,still nuttin'.Unplugged it and back to the dealer it goes.PS.I have it on DV so my dealer will have "hard evidence"along with more explanation of the problems I've endured with this *&!@$#.In the spirit of good sportsmanship I still say it sounds better than any other avr at its price but wowee,what a piecer.And still my boxers are intact.

[glangston@socal]

Further installations

My Axiom 60's came yesterday and I picked up a Hsu sub-woofer (VTF Mk II) and hooked it all up. No fine tuning yet but it was very impressive on some HDTV last night (CSI and Missing). It's amazing how visceral your response is to very low frequencies.

No audible hiss on my unit.

[Bam!]

If it werent' so sad it would be funny.I turned on my 1056 to listen to a new cd,after the cd I pushed the standy button and nuttin' happened.I tuned the volume and nuttin' happened,pushed inputs,still nuttin'.Unplugged it and back to the dealer it goes.PS.I have it on DV so my dealer will have "hard evidence"along with more explanation of the problems I've endured with this *&!@$#.In the spirit of good sportsmanship I still say it sounds better than any other avr at its price but wowee,what a piecer.And still my boxers are intact.

Sorry to hear that Bob....hey did you leave a little note inside telling Rotel that this receiver is a Hisser ?

[Bob Knarly]

Bam,good idea,but I'm sure Rotel is WELL aware of this problem.

[Aussie Geoff]

Bob,

A thought for you. There are high frequency mains noise issues (current on the neutral line for example) that can cause hiss on HT components like the Rotel and can even cause them to break down. The current on the neutral or earth line can progressively damage the power supply causing breakage. Not all equipment is sensitive to this - but Rotels are (as are lots of other high qualityu equipment , since this kind of mains noise is bad....

Given your symptoms, I'd have a good electrical check... You may find you need a mains filter that covers Active, Neutral and Ground. Sometimes it's just one house affected. Other times (e.g. near a high power radio transmitter) it can be several streets with bad power....

Worth a check - you don't want the next one to "be a hisser" and then break...

Geoff

[Bob Knarly]

I suppose thats possible.I suppose KY,OHIO,IN ALL have this problem(I don't think so).I may not be typing this clearly but I will try one more time(EVERY UNIT AT MY DEALER HISSES).Maybe its the first batch,maybe is electric dohicky is bad like mine,maybe me and my dealer have a built in hiss in our ears.I have heard every possible excuse for Rotels problem except"It sounds like your unit and ALL others you have heard a faulty".I don't really expect that but that is the case.

[aud19]

Well as you touched on with early units having a problem, perhaps all the units you and your dealer have heard are early units with the problem...?

Jason

[Don]

I have the rsx-1056 at home right now for demo purposes. Once the unit is turned on, I can hear a hiss if I put my ears close to each speaker (not sure if this is the same hiss problem), is this normal?

[Bob Knarly]

Some minor hiss from an active channel is normal w/your ear to the speaker.Hiss from surrounds and center when listening to stereo only is not normal(for me anyway).I took my unit back to my dealer,told him of my latest problem of the unit locking up(no buttons respond from remote or on face).He told me ALL his units do this,he just unplugs them and then plugs em' back in and they are ok for a while.I was blowed away and ask if any other manufacturer units do this,he said nope.His exact words were"no other electronics plugged in on that circuit do that".He did say he would get me a new unit(not one in store but fresh).I agreed to try one more time on a fresh shipped unit,if its good(fingers crossed) I will be right here to say so,if not,well I'll still be here to say so.

[Spurt]

Hi Bob

I too have this HISS problem all the time, and I have also keeped the RSX 1056 because of the great sound.
I have emailed to Rotel through the dealer, and got this answer:
"I have simulated the setup as described. There is some hiss but no more than you would find on any other product.

Also the hiss can only be heard when you place your ear next to the speaker. At 0.5m away from the speaker I could hardly hear it.

If he wants to leave the unit switched on overnight then simply press the MUTE button and the hiss is completely silenced."

The problem is that I can hear the HISS from 2 m from the speaker at sound level 36, and I have a small room size only 17 m2 so the speakers are very close to the listing postision.
So it is not only you Bob

[aud19]

I have the rsx-1056 at home right now for demo purposes. Once the unit is turned on, I can hear a hiss if I put my ears close to each speaker (not sure if this is the same hiss problem), is this normal?

A slight hiss with your ear up to the tweeter is normal...(the hiss not your ear up to the tweeter :lol: ) don't worry about it. As for the rest of you, take it back to your dealer and insist they replace it with a new one shipped from Rotel as you likely have one of the early units.

Jason

[Bob Knarly]

Spurt,you have the same problem as me.I will caution you that this statement(for whatever reason) can cause you grief.I do thank you for being brave enough to post it as many would like to think I'm the only one complaining.If everyone(and a few are) would be objective this problem may have already been taken care of but I think Rotel thinks if they don't look long enough the problem will go away,or some won't mind.I was raised to face my problems and resolve them,not act like they don't exist,so I guess thats what I expect(too much I know).The saga continues...............................

[Spurt]

I have also have this lockup of the receiver once. All I did was to take the power off the receiver and then power on, and it worked again.
This was like a hard reset of an computer Nothing else worked.
The RSX 1056 gets power through a power filter and in Denmark we have 220-230v and no ground .
And my firmware version is 1.1.6 and this version is very new.

[shadow]

Spurt,you have the same problem as me.I will caution you that this statement(for whatever reason) can cause you grief.I do thank you for being brave enough to post it as many would like to think I'm the only one complaining.If everyone(and a few are) would be objective this problem may have already been taken care of but I think Rotel thinks if they don't look long enough the problem will go away,or some won't mind.I was raised to face my problems and resolve them,not act like they don't exist,so I guess thats what I expect(too much I know).The saga continues...............................

Well, as far as I can tell only two of you are now complaining . Seriously, if your problem cannot be remedied to your satisfaction, you should get something else through your dealer since this kind of defect ruins the experience for you on everything you watch or listen to. Have you emailed Mr. Pratt since he has direct contact with Rotel service and has a track record of getting other problems remedied? What loudspeakers are you using with the 1056? Hope you have some good luck with the 1056 or that you get something else you can be happy with. :

[theMaximus]

This thread is one I know alot about.I owned a 3802/03/05,all very solid and never a problem.The 1056 is superior in sound and amps but not flexability or features.Since music is important I kept the 1056 but the hisssssss is very annoying,the Denons were dead quiet.I'll say once more I have owned the 1068 and it hissed also,the 1056 and 1067 hiss,every one I have ever heard in three states hissed.I been very patient with Rotel/dealer and so far its got me nowhere,and NO I'm not the only one that can hear it,my dealer did also,on every unit in his store.

I just purchased 1056 a couple of weeks ago and noticed a very faint hiss from the tweeters. However, it is not audible unless I get my ear more than three feet away from the tweeters. Since everyone I know listen to music farther than three feet away from the speakers, it really is a non-issue. My previous RSX-965 had a hum after about three years of use (noticeble from my listening position at 11 feet away and was annoying the hell out of me). But, 1056 isn't bugging me at all other than the fact that I know it is there. Furthermore, I've listened to other receivers in the past and rarely saw something that was completely dead silent. Again, as long as I can't hear the hiss from near my actual listening position, I don't really mind.

[Bob Knarly]

theMAX,you hear the same hiss as me,from about 3ft away.If it don't bother you then you got'er made.I was only pointing out that it does bother me(cause its not necessary) and could possibly bother others.I do appreciate your feedback on this issue and your honesty,enjoy your Rotel.