Problems with 1069 after update v1.22 (UPDATED!)

[Opus007]

Did you make sure to do a factory reset after you updated the firmware? If not, use the Rotel Setup Config utility to keep your system configuration stored so you don't have to start from scratch after the reset.

Eric

Yes I did a factory reset with each update.Not sure it means anything but when I updated the main I had not updated the scaler from 1.47 to 1.48 as I thought 1.47 was the latest.After updating the main to 1.22 I noticed my scaler was 1.47 so I updated the scaler and since it says that it is suggested to have the scaler at 1.48 before updating the main to 1.22 I re-did the main software to 1.22 again after updating the scaler to 1.48.Not sure if that is my problem or if it something else and am waiting for a reply or phone call from Rotel.
Thanks for the tip on the Setup Config Utility.Also it seems that after updating and turning the unit off and back on it automatically resets to factory default.But still I reset it in the menu.

[TommyV]

I would reload 1.22, then do a factory reset again. That might fix it. I do the reset from the Rotel Setup program. There is a MCU RESET button.

[Opus007]

Well now I can not seem to get back into the unit.It says no response from cpu.Tommy what port settings did you use?
never mind.I got in.My cable was loose.Did you do a forced or regualar upgrade as the default is forced so that is what I am using.Hope it fixes it this time as stil no response from Rotel.I have called and left messages but no return call.Hmmmmm.

[Opus007]

Well re-ran the software and no change. :g>
Did you ever verify that the subwoofer/multichannel/Max was actually doing something?Also if it is not to much trouble could you tell me the size of the HEX FILE Rotel sent you as am wondering if the it is the same as posted on the web site.Thanks.

[TommyV]

Sub levels are hard to measure super accurately BUT I did some more testing and I am not convinced the MULTI boost is actually doing anything. You really need to crank it up loud to get better reading which I can not do tonight.

There really should be a separate boost specifically for HDMI LPCM audio in case someone is using multi analog AND HDMI audio. So even if it was working right, that is not ideal.

What I did notice using Avia how much lower the bass output is coming from the rear channels compared to the front three. There is definitely bass being sent to the sub now where there was none before but the output is way lower compared to the front speakers. I have not ran DVE because I can't do anymore testing tonight or people will start waking up.

The file I got had the exact same name and size.

Edit: Okay I couldn't help myself. I went ahead I used my Pioneer 23FD which still has the multi analogs hooked up to do some comparisons. Using the analogs the bass output from the rears is equal to that of the of the fronts so there is issue #1. Also I am becoming more convinced the MULTI setting does nothing to the sub level. At least you can use the SUB key to boost it which you couldn't even do before.

So upon further investigation it seems this software is definitely a a step in the right direction, but by no means have they perfected the HDMI LPCM issue. My initial results were rushed because I had so many things going on. I will get back in touch with Mike at B&W with my findings and see what he has to say.

[Opus007]

Thanks Tommy for running those test.I gave my 1057 receiver to my brother but I remember at one time testing the multichannel sub level over hdmi on it and it worked correctly so see no reason why it should not work on the 1069.
I also thought the rear bass redirection was low when being sent to the subs.
Hopefuly Rotel will fix this issue.In my personal opinion and I could be way off is that the adding of the bypass board is the cause of some of these problems.Thanks.

[TommyV]

I heard back from B&W and he had already confirmed the low bass from the rears.

He also offered a work-around to no MPCM sub adjustment. Just calibrate your system to your MPCM source and then go into the other sources and back the sub level off in the SUB SETUP menu. Kind of a hassle but it would work.

He said he is forwarding the low bass issue and suggesting adding a line in the sub setup menu for adjust Multi LCPM. We will see what happens next.

FYI the MULTI sub boost does work for multi analog in both the 1057 and 1069. We are talking about Multi LPCM from an HDMI source which the 1057 does not have that capability so there is really no comparison there.

[Opus007]

I heard back from B&W and he had already confirmed the low bass from the rears.

He also offered a work-around to no MPCM sub adjustment. Just calibrate your system to your MPCM source and then go into the other sources and back the sub level off in the SUB SETUP menu. Kind of a hassle but it would work.

He said he is forwarding the low bass issue and suggesting adding a line in the sub setup menu for adjust Multi LCPM. We will see what happens next.

FYI the MULTI sub boost does work for multi analog in both the 1057 and 1069. We are talking about Multi LPCM from an HDMI source which the 1057 does not have that capability so there is really no comparison there.

Now that I think about I do not know what I was thinking as the 1057 does not do audio over hdmi.How are you getting ahold of Rotel so fast?I have been sending emails and calling and no call backs or emails.Thanks.

[Opus007]

The work around would be ok but it does not cover all sources.What I think you are saying is boost the sub in the test tone area by +10db.Then for like DD,DTS,PL2,Stereo and DSP reduce the sub by -10 in the sub set up.But that does not cover all sources as there is no option to add or subtract for pcm 2 channel which I use very often.

[TommyV]

The work around would be ok but it does not cover all sources.What I think you are saying is boost the sub in the test tone area by +10db.Then for like DD,DTS,PL2,Stereo and DSP reduce the sub by -10 in the sub set up.But that does not cover all sources as there is no option to add or subtract for pcm 2 channel which I use very often.

Stereo is 2 ch. You may not have to use -10, you would basically have to run through all your sources and calibrate each of them and reduce the sub level as appropriate.

[Opus007]

If I listen to a cd digital source via digital coax it comes up on the display as pcm2 channel.I also use my subs when using this source so it is 2.1.Will adjusting the stereo sub setup also adjust it when it is reading pcm 2 channel?

[TommyV]

2 ch and stereo are the same thing. The fact that there is a "Stereo" setting in the sub setup menu means they intended it for running 2.1. 2 ch or Stereo in it's true form is 2.0 but yes give it a try that what Stereo is for.

[Opus007]

Got a email from Rotel saying basically the same thing you said.And Mike said he was asking the engineers to add a line in the menu for the mpcm.So the wait is on.

[jcawdell]

Hi All
reading though your post i see talk of an firmware update. Where do I get the updates from and do i any special hardware to install them.
thanks

[TommyV]

http://bwgroup-support.com/downloads.html

[Opus007]

Sent Rotel a email asking if and when the new fix will happen and this is the email I received:

Hi Shaun,
They are working on the software but have not sent a release build yet. At the moment they are discussing the best way to implement this setting into the unit.

Best Regards,


Michael Sheehan

The B&W Group

B&W / Rotel / Classe



Just thought I would keep anyone interested updated.

[TommyV]

Yea I just got a response from Mike as well. I wrote him about something else and asked about the software.

He said that they factory has confirmed the MPCM bass redirect issue and is working on getting it perfect. He also said they are trying to add the bass level adjustment for MPCM and decide what is the best way to do this.

I think it is great they are still commited to the previous models. Service like this creates loyal customer base.

[macwrede]

Is this something that your average run of the mill audiophile should attempt, or is it best left to an experienced technician? The instructions seem pretty straight forward. Is there anything in particular to watch out for? I'm tempted to give it a shot, but would hate to brick my processor!

[TommyV]

If you mean updating the processor, as long as you can get the serial connection to link and follow the instructions in the PDF files proved on the B&W support site, it should not be a problem.

The problems usually come up in just the linking PC to the unit. Once they are linked, applying the new software is just a click of a button.

[Opus007]

Is this something that your average run of the mill audiophile should attempt, or is it best left to an experienced technician? The instructions seem pretty straight forward. Is there anything in particular to watch out for? I'm tempted to give it a shot, but would hate to brick my processor!

It is not a big deal as long as you have the cable to go from your computer to the unit.If you deceide to do it and have problems just post your problem here and we will walk you through it.It is as you said pretty straight forward.

[hery19]

Have you guys heard from B&W about the HDMI MPCM bug fix?

[Opus007]

Not yet......

[Opus007]

Update:Rotel just sent me the new update to test.Will let you know the results this evening.

[Opus007]

New software is Main 1.23. It adds Multi LPCM to the sub menu where you can increase or decrease sub by 10.And I can confirn that it does work.
Other than this there is no fix yet for the bass redirect for the surrounds.TommyV has confirmed that Rotel is working on it(as we are both in contact with Rotel) and it is a problem with the TI chip.Rotel is in contact with the manufacture of the chip to see how to solve the problem.
Even though the new software does not deal with the surround redirect issue Mike at Rotel has told me Version 1.23 should be released in the next week.
I am sure like most of us 1069 owners we would have never known about it if TommyV had not of found the bug.So kudos goes out to TommyV.And actually for me i am unsure I will see a big difference when the redirect is fixed.

[TommyV]

NEW SOFTWARE v1.23

I am here to give my results after loading v1.23 and running through the full testing of the HDMI audio. Just to start off, I am very excited about what this software has accomplished.

What Rotel has done is actually implement a separate line in the sub setup menu for "Multi LPCM" so you can dial in your sub for decoded high resolution audio via HDMI. I requested exactly this from Mike over at BW group support after giving my full report on v1.22 and he said he would suggest it to the techs at the factory to be included in the next version. I am so glad to report that after setting everything up properly, I am getting the best sound from the HDMI inputs to date coming from my 1069 :T

In the sub setup menu, I set Multi LPCM to MAX. Now the LFE is matching the bitstream DD from my Avia test DVD. Opus is correct that Mike has said the LFE bass redirect for the rear speakers is a slightly lower level but I can tell they tweaked it even further from v1.22. Now the difference between the LFE redirected to the front and rear speakers is much less significant. In fact, I even noticed slightly lower dB with bitstream DD for the rears. The difference in dB between the fronts and rears is a much smaller gap now though.

It is true Mike recognized that there was still this lower level and that after they have been working for the solution, they found it to be something with the Texas Instruments DSP chip being used. He also stated they are still moving forward with pursuing getting things perfect and are in contact with TI to get to the bottom of the cause and find a fix!

I can tell you this though, they have done more than just add a line to the sub setup menu. They have gone in and optimized the audio to the greatest possible at the time. I can hear the drastic improvement and it makes me excited all over again like when I got my shiny new Rotel pre/pro. The fact they have put this much work and time into getting the most out of this unit is truly impressive. He did say that a further software might take longer due to needing collaboration with TI. This makes perfect sense to me.

What they have done compared to v1.21 is truly impressive. I thank you Shaun (Opus) for recognizing my work on this. Yes I have spent a great deal of time in testing every aspect possible especially when it comes to the HDMI audio. The speedy/intelligent responses and solid results BW group has produced from my findings has only inspired me to be even more thorough in my testing procedures.

I have nothing but great things to say about Rotel products and their support makes the investment well worth what I paid and then some. If you own an RSP-1069/RSX-1058 and use HDMI audio, Main software v1.23 truly brings the audio quality of this unit to a whole new level.

I am proud to have played a small part in bringing this software to fruition in my pursuit of audio bliss.

Tommy

[Opus007]

Well I just got through watching Transformers "Rise of the Fallen" for the 10th time(bluray) as it is one of my favorite movies.At first I just wanted to see how the bass would playout with the MLPCM set to max over HDMI.I got so envolved I watched the whole movie.I was saying to myself that something was different and not just the bass.The audio was vastly improved to where it had me scratching my head wondering if it was just in my head.But after reading TommyV's post it makes sense now as I did not know they had done anything other than add the MLPCM.And I did not test the surround redirect.Thanks Tommy for testing it throughly and posting your results.

[hery19]

That is great news, Gents!! :T TommyV, thank you very much for your efforts in getting to the bottom of this issue that affects us 1069/1058 owners. Hopefully, I can download the software soon and take my system for a spin and finally enjoy HDMI the way it was meant.

Again thank you very much!

Eddie

P.S. Any idea when they will have v2.3 on their website?

[hurin]

Congratulations for your good work.

Is there a reason to upgrade if you have a setup without a sub?

[macwrede]

TommyV...to back up to the beginning of this thread, how were you able to isolate the problem to just the surrounds? I have an Avia-II, but unless I am missing something very basic, I don't have the option of playing test tones (other than white noise) through specific speakers. How were you able to play sweep tones to the surrounds only?

Also, I am playing mine through a BDP using HDMI, but my 1069 display shows Dolby Digital, not PCM. Any suggestions here?

Great job, by the way!

[hery19]

The much awaited software update version 2.3 is now available for the 1069![B]