Rotel newbie * 1560 problems (bi-amping question)

[canIray]

Hello All

I am replacing a 9 year old Yamaha 5.1 reciever for my new rotel 1560

but i am running into a few snags.

My tv, an older sony kdf 60xbr950, has only one DVI input.

My motorola DVR box also has a DVI output.

So i have added the HDMI adapters to each of them.

I route my bluray sony s550 via HDMI to video 1, i ensure video 1 is set to HDMI input #1, and the audio is HDMI #1 as well

I route the motorola dvr via HDMI to video 2, (and because it is really a DVI output) i also route audio via optical cable to optical #1, i ensure that video 2 now is set for video from HDMI #2 but with audio from optical #1.

I then send out these images via HDMI, to the TV's DVI input (w/HDMI converter)

Problem is the bluray player does not have HDMI audio only video

and the motorola dvr has only a second flash of an image, (audio is fine being routed via optical input)


I read of a bug with Rotels and DVI Tv's??? am i missing something?

Thanks in advance

Ray

[Dmantis]

You need to run digital audio to the receiver. It can't take audio from DVI. DVI does not carry audio. Only video.

So run coax or Optical to your receiver and audio you will have.

Dan

[hifiguymi]

Dan,

He's not getting audio from his BD player. Hooking up an optical or coaxial digital is not the problem.

Ray,

Make sure the receiver has the HDMI audio set to amp and not TV first off. If it is, then unplug the HDMI cable going to the TV. If you get audio from the BD player then there is a handshake issue with that TV. I run into it all of the time with displays that have DVI inputs. The only thing to try is turning things on in a different order to see if you can get audio from the BD player. I know it's a pain but that SOMETIMES works.

As far as the cable box, see if the cable company has a different cable box with an HDMI output. Just tell them you are having a problem hooking up the DVI and they usually with swap boxes with you.

Eric

[canIray]

Eric

You are correct as i do not intend to send any audio from or to my TV.

And it is set to AMP mode not TV.

And the Bluray is set to audio via HDMI

I am going to get a new DVR box from Comcast, that has HDMI outs to see if thats a problem.

Still cant get HDMI audio out of the bluray, but optical works fine when i swich it on both the blurray player and the 1560,

One question how does the 1560 know what HDMI audio source to process.

ex, i have a dvr that is on all the time, and it goes out via hdmi, and a bluray also out via hdmi.

how does the 1560 know to process the correct hdmi signal, as for all other inputs (like otical) the menus will have optical 1 2 3 & 4, but for hdmi it only says HDMI audio.

do other devices connected via HDMI need to be shut off,

[hifiguymi]

Did you unplug the HDMI cable from the TV to see if you get audio from the BD player? Let know what happens when you do that.

As for the HDMI audio, when you assign the HDMI video to an input, the audio from that HDMI source has to follow. You cannot have HDMI video from one input and HDMI audio from another. That is just how it works since everything is in one cable. I hope that answers it.

Eric

[Ken49r]

One question how does the 1560 know what HDMI audio source to process.

ex, i have a dvr that is on all the time, and it goes out via hdmi, and a bluray also out via hdmi.

how does the 1560 know to process the correct hdmi signal, as for all other inputs (like otical) the menus will have optical 1 2 3 & 4, but for hdmi it only says HDMI audio.

do other devices connected via HDMI need to be shut off,

In settings menu... each Video 1-5 input has a list of options. You can only select 1 video device and 1 audio device. How you assign each will determine what source the 1560 outputs.

[canIray]

Hey guys thanks for the help just got the new motorola dvr with hdmi output
I plug it in as soon as i get home

But to rule out the dvi tv being the culprit in my digital handshake problem
I did unplg the hdmi out from the rotel but still no hdmi audio was sent from the bluray and out the rotel

And as for my multiple hdmi question i guess the only limitation using it the way rotel has it set is. That it is not possible to have image from hdmi 1 coupled with the hdmi audio from any source but #1
not that i need to do this but i guess if ever i wanted to play xbox but hear the audio from the dvr id better have an additional audio out method from the dvr

Thanks

Ray

[hifiguymi]

Hey guys thanks for the help just got the new motorola dvr with hdmi output
I plug it in as soon as i get home

But to rule out the dvi tv being the culprit in my digital handshake problem
I did unplg the hdmi out from the rotel but still no hdmi audio was sent from the bluray and out the rotel

That is odd. There has to be something not set up properly either in the Rotel or the BD player. From what you said it should be correct but check again just to be sure.

And as for my multiple hdmi question i guess the only limitation using it the way rotel has it set is. That it is not possible to have image from hdmi 1 coupled with the hdmi audio from any source but #1
not that i need to do this but i guess if ever i wanted to play xbox but hear the audio from the dvr id better have an additional audio out method from the dvr

Thanks

Ray

That is an HDMI limitation, not a Rotel one. You can't do that with any preamp or receiver that I know of and I've tried on a few different brands.

Eric

[canIray]

Eric thanks for your input

i dtill havent gotten back home to set up the new motorola dvr but ill do that later today and post results, to see id it allows for video and audio to pass via hdmi.

but humor me with your thoughts on this, i also saw some questions about this in another thread but with no clear answer.


i have a 5.1 speaker set up, so the 2 center back surrounds on the 1560 go unused.

my fronts are b&w 705's
center htm7
rear surrounds 602 s2's
and a sunfire sub

i mainily listen to music or sat radio so i set listening to 2ch stereo

my older yamaha reciever was loud, and rated at less power than this new rotel. but the rotel doesnt get as loud , ive noticed it defaults to start volume off at level 45, does your level 45 sound low, like a whisper, i then crank it to at least 70 or 75 to get a nice sound, which is much less harsh then the yamaha, much smoother feel i think.

but even at higher levels i definatley dont think its as loud as my old receiver.

the bass signals also dont feel as significant. even after tweaking them plus 4, i get no shaking of my little wood floor house as i used to.
and almost no bass with sat radio, where as before even the howard stern talk show was bassy?

am i missing something?

thanks again

ray

[rja52]

Rotel RSP-1570 and DVI

Here is a thread in the avs forum that discusses inability of processor to process HDMI audio when display is DVI http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=rsp+1570. Evidently the Rotel HDMI out must "see" an HDMI device in order to process the audio portion of the signal. I have a DVI input on my TV and have recently ordered the Rotel RSP-1570. I am using an Oppo HM-31 HDMI switch in the current system. I'm hoping that if I plug the Rotel HDMI out into the HM-31 input that the audio will process correctly. If it does, this will have to be a work around until I get an HDMI display.

[hifiguymi]

Eric thanks for your input

i dtill havent gotten back home to set up the new motorola dvr but ill do that later today and post results, to see id it allows for video and audio to pass via hdmi.

but humor me with your thoughts on this, i also saw some questions about this in another thread but with no clear answer.


i have a 5.1 speaker set up, so the 2 center back surrounds on the 1560 go unused.

my fronts are b&w 705's
center htm7
rear surrounds 602 s2's
and a sunfire sub

i mainily listen to music or sat radio so i set listening to 2ch stereo

my older yamaha reciever was loud, and rated at less power than this new rotel. but the rotel doesnt get as loud , ive noticed it defaults to start volume off at level 45, does your level 45 sound low, like a whisper, i then crank it to at least 70 or 75 to get a nice sound, which is much less harsh then the yamaha, much smoother feel i think.

but even at higher levels i definatley dont think its as loud as my old receiver.

The turn on volume is something you can set in the Rotel. If 45 is not loud enough, let set it at 60 or something like that. It's in the option menu.

As for the Yamaha playing louder I can't say for sure since I'm not there. I know that things that don't sound as good will sound louder even though they may be at the same in room volume. If something is harsh and fatiguing, it will sound louder. If you have an SPL meter (which you should have), check the in room volume when you are playing music. You may be surprised.

the bass signals also dont feel as significant. even after tweaking them plus 4, i get no shaking of my little wood floor house as i used to.
and almost no bass with sat radio, where as before even the howard stern talk show was bassy?

am i missing something?

thanks again

ray

Is the crossover on the Rotel set at the same point as the Yamaha? If the Yamaha was higher it will seem like less bass from the Rotel. Same thing with the bass from the Howard Stern show. If the crossover was higher on the Yamaha it would make male voices boom.

Eric

[canIray]

So i finally pluged in my new hd hdmi output dvr box, and the rotel unit still does not allow for audio out via hdmi,

it is definately a limitation of the 1560, it needs a true hdmi source on the output to complete all hand shakes

i calibrated the 1560 with my avia disc, and i am so pleased with quality of the sound,

the only complaints might be caused by the dvi ,monitor on the output.

when i switch between video sources, bluray or dvr some times it takes a few seconds, sometimes it doesnt show the picture, only the audio now supplied optically, or finally when using the OSD sometimes it shows a full green screen so i hit the button a few more times and it switches correctly

i guess it might be time for new tv

[Kevin D]

You could also pick up an HDMI to component converter like the HDfury2. Much cheaper then a new TV.

Kevin D>

[x166532x]

-Your system is only as strong as its weakest link-

Never more true than with HDMI. In an HDMI chain the source devices (BDPS550 & Cable Box) have to talk to the end device (TV). The limitations of any one device will drag down the whole system. In your case the TV only has DVI - which tells the Blu Ray player not to output audio.
A frustrating fact - no doubt, but nothing to do with the Rotel piece.

Just as a test - can you try to go into the Setup menu of your BDPS550 -> Audio settings -> BD Audio Setting -> and change the default Mixed to Direct.
The Direct setting allows the audio to be sent out bitstream for decoding within the RSX1560. (Change your receiver audio input back to HDMI) It probably will still not work, but worth a shot.

I find myself more comfortable letting my $2600 receiver decode DTS MA than my $400 Blu Ray player anyway.

If all else fails and you don't want to buy a new TV - you can use the analog multichannel output of the Blu Ray to the receiver to take advantage of the new HD audio codecs.

[canIray]

kevin

not sure howwell you know the hd fury product, but i have a quick question

on youtube, you can see someone plug an hdmi out ps3 unit to a vga computer monitor.

it looks to work with ascpect to allowing video to be transfered to a non hdmi unit.

on my TV i have a dvi in, so the monster cable adapter i use to convert the dvi to hdmi, is not a true processor as is the hd fury product. right?

so if i get one of those dvi to vga adapters, then use the hdfury product will it respond like a true hdmi input? with transfer of audio to the tv, as it does have speakers built in, unlike the computer monitor shown in youtube.

more importantly do you think it will fool the rotel and complete the handshake on the tv's end?

thanks

ray

[Kevin D]

The original HDfury was DVI to VGA, not recommended as it will respond it's DVI. Also has no audio support.

The HDfury2 is HDMI to VGA or component. I would plan to use component as some VGA inputs have issues.

It reports back as an HDCP compliant HDMI TV. I'm using a similar device (no longer produced) with no issues on a RSP-1069.

There's a lot of fakes, so be sure to only buy from curtpalme.com.

If you wanted to possibly save some money, you can try the Fury Gamer edition. The 1560 would have to be within 6' of the TV and you may have issues with your VGA input.

None of them change the signal at all. They don't scale, they don't change the aspect, they don't change the timings. They just handshake with the sending device and convert the digital signal into analog.

Kevin D.

[bigburner]

The original HDfury was DVI to VGA, not recommended as it will respond it's DVI. Also has no audio support.

The HDfury2 is HDMI to VGA or component. I would plan to use component as some VGA inputs have issues.

It reports back as an HDCP compliant HDMI TV. I'm using a similar device (no longer produced) with no issues on a RSP-1069.

There's a lot of fakes, so be sure to only buy from curtpalme.com.

If you wanted to possibly save some money, you can try the Fury Gamer edition. The 1560 would have to be within 6' of the TV and you may have issues with your VGA input.

None of them change the signal at all. They don't scale, they don't change the aspect, they don't change the timings. They just handshake with the sending device and convert the digital signal into analog.

Kevin D.

Hi Kevin,

What's the catch with the HDFury2? It sounds too good to be true. What doesn't it do?

I'm tempted by blu-ray, in particular the improved sound quality on blu-ray music DVDs. However I have a non-HDCP compliant plasma screen that I don't want to replace as the picture is excellent. Is HDFury2 a realistic solution?

Nigel.

[Kevin D]

No catch.. most of these devices are made in Taiwan so they don't have to perfectly adhere to the HDCP rules. It's such a small market anyway that no one if going to come after them.

There's been some batches that had problems (counterfeit parts in the manufacturing process ironically), but the designer of the Fury is on Curt's forum, so major issues get fixed quickly. The addition of a component output (which have to accept video timings) took care of most issues the original had (where some VGA inputs would not accept video timings, only computer timings).

Kevin D.

[canIray]

So ive placed an order for one of the Hdfury 2's

with both vga adapter, and components cable adapter

one question,

if i go through the dvi input on the tv, and use a vga adapter does this convert the signal to analog, that whole DVI-I or -A, or both?

or i can also just go component

which would give me the best picture quality?

ill give it a shot and report back

[Pitou5]

canIray,

I just want to mention that my display is a Sanyo z2000 projector that has HDMI input, BUT, if the PJ is off, I still can hear audio from HDMI.

Confirmed with my XA2 HD-DVD player, playing movies and CDs and with my Motorola DCT-6416 also.

I own the RSX-1550

Pitou!

[canIray]

canIray,

I just want to mention that my display is a Sanyo z2000 projector that has HDMI input, BUT, if the PJ is off, I still can hear audio from HDMI.

Confirmed with my XA2 HD-DVD player, playing movies and CDs and with my Motorola DCT-6416 also.

I own the RSX-1550

Pitou!

try pulling the hdmi output out of the rotel mid dvd, and see if the audio goes out,

thats what happened to another 1560,

i guess a dvi output doesnt register as an output at all, no audio on either my dvr box, or my bluray player

[Pitou5]

I just tested it, I was listening to a channel from my cable box and did disconnect the hdmi cable from the Rotel's output and the sound was still playing.

Pitou!

[Kevin D]

So ive placed an order for one of the Hdfury 2's

with both vga adapter, and components cable adapter

one question,

if i go through the dvi input on the tv, and use a vga adapter does this convert the signal to analog, that whole DVI-I or -A, or both?

or i can also just go component

which would give me the best picture quality?

ill give it a shot and report back

You won't be able to use the DVI input on the TV. most likely it's just DVI-I (digital input). DVI-A is essentially analog VGA over a DVI cable. DVI-D is dual interface that supports both.

A DVI to VGA adapter just puts the correct VGA pins on the correct DVI-D pins. Your TV probably doesn't even look at the analog pins.

So you can either go component or into a normal VGA input (if you have one). They're the same signal and quality, but your VGA input may not like video timings and a lot of TV's disable most adjustment settings over VGA. So component is probably your best bet.

Kevin D.

[Scottl]

I just purchased the RSX-1560 and am running into the same issue. I have a Pioneer 05 Bluray and Runco 710 projector with DVI. I can't get any HDMI Audio or Video to work. The Video won't sync with the projector. I tried component and it works fine.

Sounds like I need a work around for the audio to experience the new formats. Does the 7.1 analog inputs give me the same sound?

Scott

[canIray]

so i got one of those HDfury2's today, and like magic now the rotel 1560 will send HDMI audio to the speakers,

only one problem

the HDfury isnt playing nice with my bluray player


but is is working fine with my dvr



im hopinh someone on their forum will steer me in the right direction

im sure its some setting on the bluray player i have wrong. but its audio is comiing through now.

Ray

[canIray]

So i got everything worked out.

now i get HDMI audio output from the 1560, thanks to the HDFURY 2

i do have to use the compnent input on the TV, and not the DVI but it looks fine.

So far the 1560 works fine, a few odd points.

if i power down the 1560 while the last input was lets say CD, when i power back up its still on CD but i get no audio, i have to toggle away from CD and then right back and its fine.

switching between video inputs, it take a few seconds of picture flicker before its displayed porperly

and now on hdmi audio inputs if i skip foward a track on the bluray player the new track will take a few seconds to begin playing, so i miss the first second or so of the scene or track.

thanks for all the help orting out my no hdmi audio problem.

Ray

[Dmantis]

So i got everything worked out.

now i get HDMI audio output from the 1560, thanks to the HDFURY 2

i do have to use the compnent input on the TV, and not the DVI but it looks fine.

So far the 1560 works fine, a few odd points.

if i power down the 1560 while the last input was lets say CD, when i power back up its still on CD but i get no audio, i have to toggle away from CD and then right back and its fine.

switching between video inputs, it take a few seconds of picture flicker before its displayed porperly

and now on hdmi audio inputs if i skip foward a track on the bluray player the new track will take a few seconds to begin playing, so i miss the first second or so of the scene or track.

thanks for all the help orting out my no hdmi audio problem.

Ray

The cd problem is something my rsp1068 did before I had it repaired . I would turn off the system in cd, come back another day , turn it on and get no sound. I would switch to another input then back and the audio kicks back in.

Strange you have this problem with your 15 series. I would assume Rotel figured this problem out with the older unit.

HDMI is a strange beast. Whats funny is you are not alone in the problems or with just Rotel. Most companies have wierd hickups. B&K has them so does Denon. They all act differently with different sources.

I really think it comes down to a standard which by now should be worked out. But it's not.

Hang in there, having the new audio HD is worth all the pain, at least in my eyes it is.

[Scottl]

What did you do to get the DVD working? I am about to go through the same process and happy to see you got it working. Thanks - this is a great forum for getting questions answered.

[canIray]

What did you do to get the DVD working? I am about to go through the same process and happy to see you got it working. Thanks - this is a great forum for getting questions answered.

how did i get the audio to work from my bluray player via hdmi output?

my tv only had a dvi (no audio) input, so i got one of these

http://www.curtpalme.com/HDFury2.shtm

Basic Kit

[canIray]

Okay now i've got a new issue.

So i just have a 5.1 system.

and decided to use the center back r & l, and redirect them to the front for a little more power up front.

i can see in the Default menu where i can do this, i scroll to cb > front, not any of the zones,

and it should work, but it doesnt , every time i change this item it reverts back to redirect = NO, how do i get this to stick?

also do you have to change in the Speakers Set up CenterBack to off,small1, or small2?? after you get the first setting to stick??

again help is greatly appreciated/

Thanks

Ray

[Kevin D]

After selecting redirect, you HAVE to do a factory default for it to take effect. Which means you might want to write down all your settings before hand.

Kevin D.

[canIray]

After selecting redirect, you HAVE to do a factory default for it to take effect. Which means you might want to write down all your settings before hand.

Kevin D.

Yeah got it to work, i was hoping not to have to do a total reset.

now hopefully i dont have to change much else with this system

[rja52]

Update

Here is a thread in the avs forum that discusses inability of processor to process HDMI audio when display is DVI http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=rsp+1570. Evidently the Rotel HDMI out must "see" an HDMI device in order to process the audio portion of the signal. I have a DVI input on my TV and have recently ordered the Rotel RSP-1570. I am using an Oppo HM-31 HDMI switch in the current system. I'm hoping that if I plug the Rotel HDMI out into the HM-31 input that the audio will process correctly. If it does, this will have to be a work around until I get an HDMI display.

Picked up and installed RSP-1570 last Thursday. No HDMI Audio with HDMI switch. I ordered HDFury2 HDMI-Component converter.

[rja52]

Picked up and installed RSP-1570 last Thursday. No HDMI Audio with HDMI switch. I ordered HDFury2 HDMI-Component converter.

Connected HDFury2 last night. Finally have video and HDMI audio through RSP-1570. Blu-Ray player is PS3. Blu-Ray video was initially green vertical and horizontal lines. When I changed PS3 Video Setting for BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI) from automatic to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr, video was normal. So now I have HDMI cables from my Scientific Atlanta cable box, Sony PS3, and Oppo DV-980 dvd player to Rotel RSP-1570. HDMI out from 1570 goes to Sony KF-50WE610 component video input through the HDFury2 and everything is working well.

[Nuthed]

Never more true than with HDMI. In an HDMI chain the source devices (BDPS550 & Cable Box) have to talk to the end device (TV). The limitations of any one device will drag down the whole system. In your case the TV only has DVI - which tells the Blu Ray player not to output audio.
A frustrating fact - no doubt, but nothing to do with the Rotel

In this case it is the Rotel. There is a bug in the firmware that tells the BluRay player not to output audio over HDMI when the Rotel is hooked to a DVI display. Some Sony receivers are also expeiriencing this bug. Other receivers are not having this problem: Denon, Integra, Onkyo etc, etc, etc.

[mjb]

Actualy its got more to do with the HDCP crap the studios are forcing on us all.