Is the rsp1069 worth buying?

[BKSinAZ]

I heard about all the problems everyone is having. I was waiting so long to buy a pre-pro and I am lost now on what to do.

[WI Rotel]

I haven't had any problems whatsoever it works fabulously. The correct question should be: do I need 1080p and the ability to stream 7.1 PCM through HDMI. If the answer is no, then you dont need one.
As I pointed out in my post 1080p is an ever so slight improvement on TV's 50 inch, below that its useless. As to 7.1 uncompressed audio, despite thorough searching titles are almost unexistent. PCM does however sound better than dolby or DTS whether 5.1 or 7.1. you can only take advantage of it through analog multi or HDMI One cable, of course, is a lot easier than 10 (three for component video 7 for multi analog!)

[BKSinAZ]

PCM better?????????

PCM does however sound better than dolby or DTS whether 5.1 or 7.1. you can only take advantage of it through analog multi or HDMI One cable, of course, is a lot easier than 10 (three for component video 7 for multi analog!)

Confused....I am new to these hookups that you describe and the reason behind them. What also confuses me is that you state that PCM is better than dolby digital or DTS? You mean I can set my dvd player to output PCM into my pre-pro and it will be better? I thought that PCM was just mono or 2 channel stereo?

[Nolan B]

I heard about all the problems everyone is having. I was waiting so long to buy a pre-pro and I am lost now on what to do.

If you want to use HDMI, listen to lossless audio from HD DVD, Blu Ray and or DVD A/SACD, and dont need to use the scaler in the 1069 then the answer is yes.

[BKSinAZ]

If you want to use HDMI, listen to lossless audio from HD DVD, Blu Ray and or DVD A/SACD, and dont need to use the scaler in the 1069 then the answer is yes.

So if my dvd player (denon 3930ci) has a decoder for SDAC, DVD-A, DD5.1 & DTS...will the 1069 work for me?

[Nolan B]

Confused....I am new to these hookups that you describe and the reason behind them. What also confuses me is that you state that PCM is better than dolby digital or DTS? You mean I can set my dvd player to output PCM into my pre-pro and it will be better? I thought that PCM was just mono or 2 channel stereo?

PCM isn't better then DD or DTS. Not always.

Simply PCM is the audio after DTS or DD has run through the decoder. So PCM from DTS and DD coming from your player will sound the exact same as DD and DTS decoding by your reciever or processor.

When PCM becomes better then DD or DTS is when Dolby TrueHD, DTS MA is decoded by the player and sent to the processor or reciever. In tat case the PCM is actually lossless audio.


Dobly Digital or DTS --->decoder--->ends up as PCM (from lossy DD or DTS)


Dolby TruHD or DTS MA --->decoder--->ends up as PCM (from lossless TruHD or DTS MA)

Many Blu Rays also have lossless PCM on the disc which is better then DD and DTS and equal to DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD.

Make sense

[Nolan B]

So if my dvd player (denon 3930ci) has a decoder for SDAC, DVD-A, DD5.1 & DTS...will the 1069 work for me?

Yes...in your case the Denon will decode SACD, DVD-A, DD, DTS and send it to the 1069 as PCM. If you arent interested in Blu Ray or HD DVD (DTS MA, Dolby TrueHD) you arnt gaining anything but being able to use HDMI from your 3930ci to the 1069.


The only improvement you may hear is if the 1069 has better DACs then the 3903 because if you use HDMI instead of analog outputs like you probably are now you arent going to be using the DACs in the 3930ci.

[lotones]

Confused....I am new to these hookups that you describe and the reason behind them. What also confuses me is that you state that PCM is better than dolby digital or DTS? You mean I can set my dvd player to output PCM into my pre-pro and it will be better? I thought that PCM was just mono or 2 channel stereo?

If i may, I think he was referring to the uncompressed multi-channel PCM track on Blu-ray/HD-DVD discs. However, there are a several music releases that have uncompressed 2 channel PCM tracks up to 192k, and the 1068 decodes those quite well via s/pdif.

edit: oop's sorry... I see you've already been responded to...

[keytrnr]

So, with the 1069 being HDMI v1.1, is it compatible with dts-hd, truHD on a blu-ray player (ps3), or does the processor need to be HDMI 1.3 also?

[WI Rotel]

So, with the 1069 being HDMI v1.1, is it compatible with dts-hd, truHD on a blu-ray player (ps3), or does the processor need to be HDMI 1.3 also?

HDMI 1.1 can transfer 7.1 just fine. What you need is a player that decodes the signal and passes it to the pre in PCM form, it is completely lossless. HDMI 1.3 is only necessary to stream the high def formats in native form for decoding in the pre. At present there are just a couple of receivers that can decode the HD audio formats and no preamps. All rotel HDMI components can handle lossless 7.1 PCM perfectly. Of note, multichannel PCM cannot be further processed, for example you cannot get pseudo 7.1 (Rotel XS) from a 5.1 PCM bitstream.
As of yet the only full resolution soundtrack I have used has been 5.1 from "Apocalypto" (I haven't found a single 7.1) the sound was frigging unbelievable and clearly better than the already great Dolby Digital.

[keytrnr]

Ok. As I understand, the 1.3 is necessary only to decode the audio formats. 1.1 will receive it just fine. I would swear dts-hd or tru-hd sounds better than dolby digital even using my optical connection with my Rotel 1068. Will it also let the video pass through to one of the new 120hz 1080p tv's and maintain the 120hz video?

[btf1980]

As of yet the only full resolution soundtrack I have used has been 5.1 from "Apocalypto" (I haven't found a single 7.1) the sound was frigging unbelievable and clearly better than the already great Dolby Digital.

3:10 To Yuma on blu-ray has 7.1 PCM. It's just........ :E

[BKSinAZ]

If I buy the RSP-1069, should I get the conversion that everyone is speaking of? How much extra will I need to pay?

When will a new RSP come out?

[hifiguymi]

If I buy the RSP-1069, should I get the conversion that everyone is speaking of? How much extra will I need to pay?

When will a new RSP come out?

If you purchase a new RSP-1069 it should have the bypass installed. If not, it can be sent to Rotel to have it installed. It's free so it won't cost you anything.

I have no idea when there will be a new RSP product. Rotel hasn't announced anything. If they announce any thing this year it will be in September at the CEDIA show.

Eric

[WI Rotel]

Ok. As I understand, the 1.3 is necessary only to decode the audio formats. 1.1 will receive it just fine. I would swear dts-hd or tru-hd sounds better than dolby digital even using my optical connection with my Rotel 1068. Will it also let the video pass through to one of the new 120hz 1080p tv's and maintain the 120hz video?

To transfer 1080p you will need HDMI, component video does not have enough bandwidth (the 1068 cannot do it), however, if your TV is less than 50 inches you won't see the difference between 1080P and 1080i anyway. I'm not sure about the 120 HZ deal.

[WI Rotel]

If I buy the RSP-1069, should I get the conversion that everyone is speaking of? How much extra will I need to pay?

When will a new RSP come out?

You don't need any conversion, all 1069's now include the HDMI bypass setting. Only the very first batch did not.
I asked ROtel if a new version of the 1098 was in the cards, their answer was, that they didn't have any plans for that at least for a year. Aside from HDMI 1.3 (which doesn't have any use) the 1069 has all the latest and greatest video and audio decoders in the market. The reason no decoding for HD audio was included was that their impression on the HDMI evolution was that decoding for those formats was moving to the players rather than the pre's. Up to now that seems to be the case, all the newest Blueray players decode the HD signals and transfer them through lossless PCM. However, even the latest and most expensive Sony player cannot transfer any 7.1 format at the highest spec possible, it will do 5.1 at the highest res but 7.1 are at lower than spec. The fact is that no movie yet has 7.1 at anywhere near the highest rate that Dolby HD and DTS HD master audio can theoretically provide. All the movies I have seen that tout lossless audio actually are recorded at DVD sampling rates they simply have a PCM track that has no compression or encoding!

[lotones]

Ok. As I understand, the 1.3 is necessary only to decode the audio formats. 1.1 will receive it just fine. I would swear dts-hd or tru-hd sounds better than dolby digital even using my optical connection with my Rotel 1068. Will it also let the video pass through to one of the new 120hz 1080p tv's and maintain the 120hz video?

To transfer 1080p you will need HDMI, component video does not have enough bandwidth (the 1068 cannot do it), however, if your TV is less than 50 inches you won't see the difference between 1080P and 1080i anyway. I'm not sure about the 120 HZ deal.

Right now there's no such thing as a 120hz video signal. As I understand it NTSC broadcasts are 60hz, and the newer 120hz LCDs take that 60hz signal and interpolate extra frames to make it 120hz. It's all done in the tv (which will only accept a video signal up to 60hz anyway), so there should be no issues with the video pass-through on the 1069.

Btw, 60hz is the North American standard. The European standard (PAL) is 50hz, so the latest and greatest European LCDs are 100hz instead of 120hz.

Hope that helps.

[Rick Hunter]

I know this is a stupid question, but I am new to the whole audiophile thing, so here it goes... What kind of cable do you need to connect the 1072 CD player to the RSP-1069?

[htsteve]

I know this is a stupid question, but I am new to the whole audiophile thing, so here it goes... What kind of cable do you need to connect the 1072 CD player to the RSP-1069?

Generally, you need a pair of analog RCA interconnects. I say generally because you can also connect the 1072 to the 1069 via a single digital coax cable. My preference is to have the CD player process and send to the pre-amp. But, trying both ways is part of the fun too.

The forum owner also owns Cat Cables. Click on the link and look at their products. Very good performance for the money.

Hope this helps.

[cxc21]

Does the 1069 with the HDMI passthrough supports PCM over HDMI? This would be important to take advantage of the PS3 DTS Master audio output after the firmware update.

[hifiguymi]

Does the 1069 with the HDMI passthrough supports PCM over HDMI? This would be important to take advantage of the PS3 DTS Master audio output after the firmware update.

Yes. The only thing that changed was the ability to bypass the scaler.

Eric

[Rick Hunter]

Generally, you need a pair of analog RCA interconnects. I say generally because you can also connect the 1072 to the 1069 via a single digital coax cable. My preference is to have the CD player process and send to the pre-amp. But, trying both ways is part of the fun too.

The forum owner also owns Cat Cables. Click on the link and look at their products. Very good performance for the money.

Hope this helps.

Thanx for your suggestion, I picked up a coax cable today, and everything sounds great.

[cxc21]

Dear Eric, just to be clear on the scaler bypass. 1080p24 and other resolutions will just be passed through? By other resolutions I mean PC resolutions like 1600x1200, 1024x 768 etc?

[hifiguymi]

Dear Eric, just to be clear on the scaler bypass. 1080p24 and other resolutions will just be passed through? By other resolutions I mean PC resolutions like 1600x1200, 1024x768 etc?

I have not tired hooking up a PC and checking it that will work but I don't see why it wouldn't. When the bypass is turned on the only thing it does is convert 480i to 480p. That is all as far as I know. Maybe Kevin has tried it.

Eric

[esaleris]

For the record, I could not successfully pass 1080p through Rotel using my HTPC. I can do it directly to my video device, but not through the 1069. I have bypass installed and turned on.

[cxc21]

For the record, I could not successfully pass 1080p through Rotel using my HTPC. I can do it directly to my video device, but not through the 1069. I have bypass installed and turned on.

Thank you. Bad news. The remaining scaling from 480i to p already indicated that it is not a true bypass/switching, there is still processing going on and the 1069 output may be limited to HDMI resolutions only. Other resolutions are not listed in the manual. I was planning to run higher resolutions than that through it at times from a Mac and in the future when the new higher resolution like 1440p are coming out.

[cxc21]

Are you using a PC or Mac? There are utilities for both to adjust the output resolution and Hz. It may dependent on the grafik card but most today support 1080p. For PC monitors HDMI formats do not fit into their height to width ratio so just mirroring the display often won't work. You should be able to get this to work though even if there is no feedback from the monitor. I hope to get a 1069 loaner to test it at home before I buy one.

[hifiguymi]

For the record, I could not successfully pass 1080p through Rotel using my HTPC. I can do it directly to my video device, but not through the 1069. I have bypass installed and turned on.

That could be an HDCP handshake issue. I've had issues with HTPC's (and cable boxes and DVD players and BD players) with other systems, that didn't have a Rotel RSP-1069, that had handshake issues. In one system with a Denon receiver we could not get the PC to work but everything else we tried did. When we went into the projector directly from the PC everything was fine.

I had another system that didn't have an HTPC but I had some handshake issues that you would think wouldn't exist. The customer has a Samsung 1080p rear projection TV (I don't remember the model number), a Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH, a Sony BD player, and a Comcast cable box. The only thing that I can get a picture from is the cable box. The BD player works fine going to TV directly but not through the receiver. We tried another BD player and a DVD player with HDMI out and none of them worked. With a different TV, it worked fine.

I don't know for sure if that is it, but HDMI is a pain sometimes and is hard to trouble shoot when one thing works one way and not another.

Eric

[esaleris]

It is a Mac. Again, when I directly connect to the video device it works. Full 1080p. I used several software packages - SwitchResX and the other one, forgot the name - to force 1080p, but it does not work through the 1069.

1080p with my other truly HT devices (i.e. Xbox) work fine. So I believe somehow, introducing the 1069 produces some other side effects when it comes to EDID.

I tried 2 different Macs, 2 different video devices, 3 different HDMI cables of differing length and always got the same issue. I think this might solve the issue, but am in no mood to pony up for it yet...

Link to Gefen DVI Detective

[cxc21]

It is a Mac. Again, when I directly connect to the video device it works. Full 1080p. I used several software packages - SwitchResX and the other one, forgot the name - to force 1080p, but it does not work through the 1069.

1080p with my other truly HT devices (i.e. Xbox) work fine. So I believe somehow, introducing the 1069 produces some other side effects when it comes to EDID.

I tried 2 different Macs, 2 different video devices, 3 different HDMI cables of differing length and always got the same issue. I think this might solve the issue, but am in no mood to pony up for it yet...

Link to Gefen DVI Detective

Maybe you tried this already. If you can read the edid info when connected to the device you should be able to save it as a custom display setting. moninfo, may help to read the EDID. Does the mac detect any display when connected to the 1069?

[macdon]

While I do have Rotels for my audio - I'm kinda new to Rotel when it comes to HT.

I'm about to experience my first separates - a pre-owned Rotel pre/pro + poweramp.
While I'm noticing that a lot of folks are selling their AVRs in favor of the newer tech HDMI/Tru-HD, etc., I was just wondering what will I be missing since the Rotel pre/pro that I will be getting has no HDMI or any newer tech thats going out nowadays.

While I dont have a 1080p capable TV nor have any Bluray/HD-DVD players yet.......I'm sure I'll be exploring them down the road when the technology becomes cheaper.

Now, since I believe having separates may have sonic advantages over a single AVR - I was just wondering if I'll be left out if I plan to invest in bluray /HD technology players in the near (or far) future with my Rotel.
Is there a workaround to this? More cables?

Any inputs would be appreciated - thanks!

[cxc21]

You won't be able to take advantage of the new high resolution HD DTS audio master unless you have a player which decodes it and has analogue 5.1 or 7.1 output up to par in quality with you Rotels. Not sure if there any. HDMI is used to carry the video as well as the audio. These new audio formats require bandwidth beyond optical.

[WI Rotel]

You won't be able to take advantage of the new high resolution HD DTS audio master unless you have a player which decodes it and has analogue 5.1 or 7.1 output up to par in quality with you Rotels. Not sure if there any. HDMI is used to carry the video as well as the audio. These new audio formats require bandwidth beyond optical.

The sony bp 500 and 2000 will decode up to 7.1 to PCM. It will do both Dolby true HD and DTS HD 7.1, however, it will not decode master audio 7.1(in that case it will do only master 5.1).
I bought "3:10 to Yuma" and the 2000 decoded 7.1 to PCM just fine. Denon also makes a blueray player that will decode the HD formats but it cost 2000 USD!
As far as I know DTS HD Master Audio 7.1 is not used in anything yet. All Blueray movies that I have seen labeled as Master Audio are 5.1. It seems that the Master Audio label is being used quite liberaly for 5.1 non compresed PCM audio.

[hifiguymi]

As far as I know DTS HD Master Audio 7.1 is not used in anything yet. All Blueray movies that I have seen labeled as Master Audio are 5.1. It seems that the Master Audio label is being used quite liberaly for 5.1 non compresed PCM audio.

All of New Line's movies have been dtsHD Master Audio 7.1. There are a couple others as well. Granted there aren't very many, but there are some.

Eric

[macdon]

You won't be able to take advantage of the new high resolution HD DTS audio master unless you have a player which decodes it and has analogue 5.1 or 7.1 output up to par in quality with you Rotels. Not sure if there any. HDMI is used to carry the video as well as the audio. These new audio formats require bandwidth beyond optical.

Would this be a huge concern to the point that I should consider getting an AVR instead?
With various AVRs in the market right now - I just dont know if they could match the sound quality of the Rotels :roll:

[cxc21]

Would this be a huge concern to the point that I should consider getting an AVR instead?
With various AVRs in the market right now - I just dont know if they could match the sound quality of the Rotels :roll:

What exactly are the parts you are getting? Of course you will be missing out. This forum is an excellent place to sort out what you need and more important what you really get with a certain piece of equipment. A lot of player list DTS HD audio master but this only means that they can read it but does not mean that they are able to put it out at the highest quality. Soundwise the 1069 or 1098 are great, the video section is problematic, in my case I need pass through Mac/PC video signal and that does not seem to work. There may be stand alone hdmi audio solutions in the future but thus far there are none. I also doubt that these will preserve the equality we need to take advantage of Rotel amps.

[cxc21]

[QUOTE=W Aside from HDMI 1.3 (which doesn't have any use) the 1069 has all the latest and greatest video and audio decoders in the market. The reason no decoding for HD audio was included was that their impression on the HDMI evolution was that decoding for those formats was moving to the players rather than the pre's. [/QUOTE]

That is not always true. If you upgraded your PS3 with the new firmware to put out DTS HD audio master you won't be able to take advantage of that with the 1069 since the PS3 will send unencoded signal over HDMI. This will be most likely also the case with new BD players for PC/Macs.

[hifiguymi]

That is not always true. If you upgraded your PS3 with the new firmware to put out DTS HD audio master you won't be able to take advantage of that with the 1069 since the PS3 will send unencoded signal over HDMI. This will be most likely also the case with new BD players for PC/Macs.

That is not correct. The PS3 cannot bitstream any of the new audio codecs on BD discs. The last firmware upgrade was to add dtsHD (both HR and MA) decoding to the PS3. If someone has a PS3 and an RSP-1069 they will be able to listen to all of the existing audio codecs including dtsHD Master Audio.

Eric

[keytrnr]

To my knowledge the ps3 is the best BD player out there due to the fact that it is able to download software updates.

[kmcheng]

Of note, multichannel PCM cannot be further processed, for example you cannot get pseudo 7.1 (Rotel XS) from a 5.1 PCM bitstream.

Now I am confused. Can the Rotel 1069 still apply bass management and delays to multichannel PCM (5.1 to be exact)? If I am not using a center channel, would the Rotel 1069 be able to redistribute the center channel information to the L&R speakers? Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks!

[Kevin D]

Now I am confused. Can the Rotel 1069 still apply bass management and delays to multichannel PCM (5.1 to be exact)? If I am not using a center channel, would the Rotel 1069 be able to redistribute the center channel information to the L&R speakers? Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks!

Yes to all. It cannot take a 5.1 PCM signal and create a 7.1 signal.

Kevin D.

[kmcheng]

(

Yes to all. It cannot take a 5.1 PCM signal and create a 7.1 signal.

Kevin D.

Kudos to Kevin for always being so helpful!! ;x(

[cxc21]

It is a Mac. Again, when I directly connect to the video device it works. Full 1080p. I used several software packages - SwitchResX and the other one, forgot the name - to force 1080p, but it does not work through the 1069.

1080p with my other truly HT devices (i.e. Xbox) work fine. So I believe somehow, introducing the 1069 produces some other side effects when it comes to EDID.

I tried 2 different Macs, 2 different video devices, 3 different HDMI cables of differing length and always got the same issue. I think this might solve the issue, but am in no mood to pony up for it yet...

Link to Gefen DVI Detective

Unfortunately I can confirm this. I finally had a loaner and was very impressed with the audio side, but I could not get video from my Mac to my LCD projector to work, which is only 720p. Without the 1069 everything works fine. HDMI feed back communication is somehow interrupted, the projector is not recognized. The resolution is set to 1280x720 and I hoped that bypass means bypass but this seems to only disable the scaler, the video signal is still processed somehow. Has anyone tried a different processor/company with more success?

[Mig17]

Please try Anthem D1 if you can but sorry ass at 5500US

[thezone]

I realise this thread is getting old but anyway..... I just had a 1069/1075 combo on loan for the weekend, and I had virtually no issues with it at all. Currently my set up is Panny Viera 1080p 50' plasma, htpc with bluray player and 8600gts, topfield pvr, ps3, marantz dv 9500. All have hdmi outputs and all ran through 1069 perfectly. I would even go as far as to say that the pq from the 8600gts in 1080p (and PQ is normally really good) looked even better through the 1069. Now as far as SQ goes, man, it absolutley kills my so called "Audiophile" marantz PS17SA AVR. Much more detail and clarity! The ultimate was just playing a cd or sacd from the dv9500 with analogue signal direct to the 1069 with bypass activated, I heard things that I did'nt even know were on my cd's.

My dilema now is that I took back the 1069/1075 loaners and ordered a 1069/1095 combo just to be greedy (I have a pair of krix transmission lines that are 30years old and need lots of grunt) but when i was in the hi-fi shop the guy behind the counter waved a brochure on the new marantz AV8003 which will be out in august. It has all the latest on hd-audio decoding plus hdmi 1.3a, balanced pre-outs (to match the 1095) and balanced inputs to match a sacd player that i dont have.

1)The marantz looks ugly, the 1069 is such a cool looking unit.
2)If i can get lossless pcm audio thru hdmi who cares about hdmi 1.3a?
3) Will the balanced pre-outs make a difference to anything coming from a un-balanced source or only to the sacd player with balanced outputs which i dont own?

Sorry to rave on..