RSP 1069: Known issues, "Fixes", and Official stance from Rotel.

[scanido]

I'm starting to get interested in this new processor. Are all the issues on the first post by Vancouver up to date???

IF not can someone please summerize what issues there are. It would be good to update the first post on all up to date issues/fixes for anyone that doesn't want to go through 4pages.

Thanks

[cxc21]

The issues are still the same. There are many so its probably good to read the few pages. Video scaler, HD audio, Dacs. All new 1069 ship with the HDMI bypass installed as I learned. It is basically an expensive switch box which not even decodes high resolution HDMI audio (dts HD). This needs to be done by the player of which there is only one (Denon DVD-3800BDCI) currently available it seems. I would wait until a new video processor and HDMI 1.3 is integrated.

[hifiguymi]

cxc21,

I don't know of any issues with the DAC's. What are you referring to? Yes the RSP-1069 will not decode any of the HD codecs, but with quite a few players coming in the next few months with full decoding in them I don't see that as a drawback. You are right that the Denon DVD-3800BDCI is the only BD player on the market today that will decode all of the HD audio codecs. The Sony BDP-S550 that is coming this summer will be $499.99 and have decoding of all formats internally so someone won't have to spend $2000.00 on a player to get that.

scandio,

The only thing I see as a drawback for some people is the RSP-1069 will not add any post processing to a multi-channel PCM input. An example where this would affect someone is if they had a 7.1 system and the movie they were watching has a 5.1 soundtrack. The surround back speakers wouldn't play. The Rotel will not add anything to the incoming signal so you hear what is on the disc and nothing more. If you have a 5.1 system, that wouldn't matter. Other than that, I think all of the issues have been addressed.

Eric

[shadow 8]

Are you sure Eric? I am not aware of any change in the video processor which reportedly crushes blacks if you use it. BTW, Panasonic has the BD 50 disk player coming out later this spring which will decode all formats internally and should cost between 5 to 600 dollars.

[hifiguymi]

Are you sure Eric? I am not aware of any change in the video processor which reportedly crushes blacks if you use it. BTW, Panasonic has the BD 50 disk player coming out later this spring which will decode all formats internally and should cost between 5 to 600 dollars.

I was making that statement assuming the HDMI bypass is turned on. I should have stated that.

I know the Panasonic will do all processing internally and it will be available in 30 days or so (sooner than the Sony). I was using the Sony BDP-S550 as an example because it is the least expensive one coming this year that I know of with internal processing for all formats.

Eric

[lvhung]

All issue addressed
you sure
I doubt about that :E

cxc21,

I don't know of any issues with the DAC's. What are you referring to? Yes the RSP-1069 will not decode any of the HD codecs, but with quite a few players coming in the next few months with full decoding in them I don't see that as a drawback. You are right that the Denon DVD-3800BDCI is the only BD player on the market today that will decode all of the HD audio codecs. The Sony BDP-S550 that is coming this summer will be $499.99 and have decoding of all formats internally so someone won't have to spend $2000.00 on a player to get that.

scandio,

The only thing I see as a drawback for some people is the RSP-1069 will not add any post processing to a multi-channel PCM input. An example where this would affect someone is if they had a 7.1 system and the movie they were watching has a 5.1 soundtrack. The surround back speakers wouldn't play. The Rotel will not add anything to the incoming signal so you hear what is on the disc and nothing more. If you have a 5.1 system, that wouldn't matter. Other than that, I think all of the issues have been addressed.

Eric

[lotones]

I thought it only crushed the blacks if the tv wasn't set to/couldn't accept an RGB signal, or did I misread?

[Kevin D]

I thought it only crushed the blacks if the tv wasn't set to/couldn't accept an RGB signal, or did I misread?

You are correct. But you stilll might get jittery text if you are not running 1080p.

Kevin D.

[rpgonzalez]

I have the rsx-1058, Panasonic plasma (not a 1080P display but accepts it fine), ps3 HDMI and a cable box that outputs 1080i via HDMI.

Do "typical" plasmas usually "do" RGB HDMI.

I switched between RGB and the yipper HDMI using the PS3 output and saw the black crush issue.

[kiwi2000]

Kevin wrote;

If you have a disc that had both Dolby and DTS tracks, try toggling between them for me. On mine with no center channel, Dolby tracks seem stuck on minimum dynamic range. Dolby lacks dynamics and are about 15db quieter then the DTS track. Everything is fine when I add a center.

I finally got a disc with both DTS and Dolby and yes it is much quieter on the Dolby track. I dont have and dont want a center rear channel, I do already have a center channel in a 5.1 configuration.
front, center, sub, rear.

To HiFi Guy who wrote;

Other than that, I think all of the issues have been addressed.

Eric

Please put down the pom poms?

I am still waiting for the mod to be done for the non functioning video portion of the 1069. I have identified that zone switching does not work and the DYN button is also non functional. It seems that anytime I go to use an advertised and paid for function on the 1069 it does not work.

There are probably more faults but I will have to stumble on them as I try to use the 1069 and report what does not work next.

[cxc21]

If you Eric are not aware of a DAC problem than I am wrong and am mixing up something. The point about no processing to a multi-channel PCM I missed completely. That is important if we rely on the player to do decoding. Without this board you just don't get all the info you need to get through this format jungle. Murphy's law of newbies predicts that exactly what you need will be absent or incomplete from a system you just dropped major bucks on. Is the reverse true also if the setup is 5.1 a 7.1 disc is played? Does this apply also to the 1058? If you put in a 7.1 or 5.1 signal through the optical inputs will this be decoded correctly?

[hifiguymi]

Please put down the pom poms?

I am still waiting for the mod to be done for the non functioning video portion of the 1069. I have identified that zone switching does not work and the DYN button is also non functional. It seems that anytime I go to use an advertised and paid for function on the 1069 it does not work.

There are probably more faults but I will have to stumble on them as I try to use the 1069 and report what does not work next.

I've not a single problem with using any of the extra zone outputs. I have a customer that is using zone 2 and zone 3 outputs and it works as it should. I have another that is using just zone 2 and it works as it should.

I haven't tried the dynamic range funtion on an updated one yet so I'll check and get back to you on that.

I haven't noticed any any video problems with a couple of updated RSP-1069's (when the HDMI bypass is turned on). One of my salespersons just received his personal one so I'll have hime look at his at home as well.

Eric

[Kevin D]

Kiwi,

Have you checked you Private Messages? I sent you some stuff on the Dolby issue and zone issue.

Kevin D.

[rpgonzalez]

So as long as the output on the 1058 is the same as the input, then the black level problem wont show up? So cable box is 1080i and 1058 set to 1080i, then all is good? And when I use the PS3 that outputs everything in 1080P, I should put the 1058 to output 1080P and then all is good? It seems like it works for me, but I dont have DVE, just some dark CSI episodes and dark movies.

[rpgonzalez]

also. I got the 1058 on clearance for $1300 (MSRP 1999?). Should I keep it with the intent to get the board switched out? Or am I going to have other problems (I have been skipping over the audio "problems" threads)

I have 2 days to take this thing back if I need to. PLEASE HELP! ;x(

[Kevin D]

So as long as the output on the 1058 is the same as the input, then the black level problem wont show up? So cable box is 1080i and 1058 set to 1080i, then all is good? And when I use the PS3 that outputs everything in 1080P, I should put the 1058 to output 1080P and then all is good? It seems like it works for me, but I dont have DVE, just some dark CSI episodes and dark movies.

No nothing to do with input vs output really. Since your TV accepts 1080p, I would just set the 1058 to output 1080p. If you saw the dark crush switching the PS3 to output RGB HDMI, then you will probably see it running through the 1058 unless you get the bypass.

The bypass upgrade is free, so no need to return it since you got such a good deal.

Kevin D.

[rpgonzalez]

No nothing to do with input vs output really. Since your TV accepts 1080p, I would just set the 1058 to output 1080p. If you saw the dark crush switching the PS3 to output RGB HDMI, then you will probably see it running through the 1058 unless you get the bypass.

The bypass upgrade is free, so no need to return it since you got such a good deal.

Kevin D.

Oh, I saw the crush when I set the ps3 to YPbPr not the rgb and it WAS going through the 1058.

And l got the crush to go away from the 1080i on the cable box by setting the 1058 to 1080i.

[mjb]

Reading through this thread makes me want to blow the dust of my vinyl! All these new audio formats its getting a little bit too complicated.

[Mig17]

center rear is needed for Dyn control working :E :Z

Kevin wrote;



I finally got a disc with both DTS and Dolby and yes it is much quieter on the Dolby track. I dont have and dont want a center rear channel, I do already have a center channel in a 5.1 configuration.
front, center, sub, rear.

To HiFi Guy who wrote;


Please put down the pom poms?

I am still waiting for the mod to be done for the non functioning video portion of the 1069. I have identified that zone switching does not work and the DYN button is also non functional. It seems that anytime I go to use an advertised and paid for function on the 1069 it does not work.

There are probably more faults but I will have to stumble on them as I try to use the 1069 and report what does not work next.

[Kevin D]

No, but currently a center is. Rotel is looking at the problem.

Kevin D.

[kiwi2000]

1069 mod

First off I would like to give many thanks to Kevin D for all the valuable information provided on this issue.

My dealer has finally recieved the 1069 with the video mod. I put it through its paces at the dealership and now have more questions for members who have had this mod done to the 1069.

The remote scrolled through inputs and zones when the zone button was selected, (mine didnt), that problem is no more.

The DYN changed between low, mid and high when that button was selected on Dolby digital material in a 5.1 set up, (mine didnt) that problem is no more.

The video portion of the mod could not be verified because either the showroom display, the DVD players or the 1069 could not pass blacker than black with video essentials DVD test disc via HDMI with the video pass through enabled.

Because I have not been able to use the video portion on my own unit navigating through at the dealership was a bit of a challenge.

To confirm when routing video through the 1069 via HDMI with the pass through enabled I should be able to pass a blacker than black signal,(that was one of the reasons for the mod). When routing video in this manner I will then not be able to see basic adjustments such as volume and input select on screen just on the unit itself, only when OSD is displayed will this option become available. Is this correct?

Do other video issues exist with the pass through enabled other than the fact the 1069 does not upconvert the signal? What about legacy video routed through the 1069 and output via HDMI are there any issues with them? Is this possible or is separate cabling required with the mod enabled?

I am curious as to whether anyone was using any of the video portion without the mod. Did the video get clipped when using component in and out or component in and HDMI out through the 1069 before the mod?

Same question as above but after the mod?

I dont want to install a new unit with issues outstanding and would much rather wait until every issue with this unit has been addressed and corrected. The dealer has much better access to updates than I have and if anything is outstanding I prefer to wait,(waited this long).

Any input would be appreciated.

[Nolan B]

The video portion of the mod could not be verified because either the showroom display, the DVD players or the 1069 could not pass blacker than black with video essentials DVD test disc via HDMI with the video pass through enabled.

You can still test it as the issue was not that the 1069 wouldnt pass blacker then black it was that many portions of the signal were in fact being clipped as show here:



^^^ the "blacker then black" bar (which is represented by the bar on the far right and left) is not visable, true, but even with the brightness turned all the way up as with in the picture above the other two bars are not visable. This basically caused all detail in blacks to be lost and scenes apear to be darker then normal.


this is what you will see when you put in DVE wit the pass through enabled when using a source which does not produce blacker then black...just the two lines.



To test and get a piece of mind that the mode works insert the DVE disc and check that you can clearly see two bars. From that point to set properly simply make the picture dark on your TV until the bar to the far righ and far left become just barely visable.

Do other video issues exist with the pass through enabled other than the fact the 1069 does not upconvert the signal? What about legacy video routed through the 1069 and output via HDMI are there any issues with them? Is this possible or is separate cabling required with the mod enabled?

there are no other issues besides the fact you do not have the ability to use the scaler. Im sorry but I dont fully understand your last question above.

[kiwi2000]

[

I]You wrote

Im sorry but I dont fully understand your last question above.[/I]

What I am trying to ask, badly it seems is are there any issues related to video through component either before or after the addition of the mod? Were the component, S video, and composite sources being scaled before and after the mod when routed through the MDMI output of the 1069?

How about just using the component ,compsoite and S video through any issues before and after in this case?

Do other video issues exist with the pass through enabled other than the fact the 1069 does not upconvert the signal? What about legacy video routed through the 1069 and output via HDMI are there any issues with them? Is this possible or is separate cabling required with the mod enabled?

I am curious as to whether anyone was using any of the video portion without the mod. Did the video get clipped when using component in and out or component in and HDMI out through the 1069 before the mod?

[Nolan B]

[

What I am trying to ask, badly it seems is are there any issues related to video through component either before or after the addition of the mod? Were the component, S video, and composite sources being scaled before and after the mod when routed through the MDMI output of the 1069?

How about just using the component ,compsoite and S video through any issues before and after in this case?

Do other video issues exist with the pass through enabled other than the fact the 1069 does not upconvert the signal? What about legacy video routed through the 1069 and output via HDMI are there any issues with them? Is this possible or is separate cabling required with the mod enabled?

I am curious as to whether anyone was using any of the video portion without the mod. Did the video get clipped when using component in and out or component in and HDMI out through the 1069 before the mod?

ah got yea...unfortunately I only ever used/test the 1069 with HDMI.

[hifiguymi]

What I am trying to ask, badly it seems is are there any issues related to video through component either before or after the addition of the mod? Were the component, S video, and composite sources being scaled before and after the mod when routed through the MDMI output of the 1069?

How about just using the component ,compsoite and S video through any issues before and after in this case?

Do other video issues exist with the pass through enabled other than the fact the 1069 does not upconvert the signal? What about legacy video routed through the 1069 and output via HDMI are there any issues with them? Is this possible or is separate cabling required with the mod enabled?

I am curious as to whether anyone was using any of the video portion without the mod. Did the video get clipped when using component in and out or component in and HDMI out through the 1069 before the mod?

I haven't had any customers that have used any of the analog video inputs, except for an iPod dock for text only, so I'm not sure about that. Maybe Kevin has and could answer that part of it.

The thing I'm curious about is the statement that the RSP-1069 doesn't "upconvert" analog video with the bypass enabled. It won't scale any analog video but it will convert any 480i (either analog or HDMI in) to 480p and output it through the HDMI out. Is that what you are referring to? You can still use just one cable to the display even if you have a component, S or composite video connection to the RSP-1069.

Eric

[lvhung]

Nice to hear that Kiwi

[lotones]

Kevin, I think I've seen you mention you listen to music with PLII... does that work with 2-channel PCM via HDMI? Or do you still need a s/pdif connection?

[Kevin D]

Kevin, I think I've seen you mention you listen to music with PLII... does that work with 2-channel PCM via HDMI? Or do you still need a s/pdif connection?

Works great. It's just stereo so it appears the same as running spdif. Anything over 2 channels shows up as MPCM and you cannot apply any soundfield.

Kevin D.

[Kevin D]

Maybe Kevin has and could answer that part of it.
Eric

Units without the MOD, or not using the BYPASS option:

The black level issue isn't the 1069 clipping the information off. It's just that the HDMI ouput of the 1069, when using the scaler, is only RGB-HDMI. A lot of TV's do not support this type of HDMI connection. All the grayscale information is still there, just in a different place then YpBpR-HDMI.

There's 240 shades on your standard gray-scale. YpBpR-HDMI has black as 16 and white as 255. RGB-HDMI has black as 0, white as 238. So the 1069 always sends out grayscale as 0-238. If your TV only accepts YpBpR-HDMI, it's only looking at 16-255. So you lose all information 0-15 (leaving your really black 'blacks' out) and there's nothing on 239-255 (so you lose your really white 'whites')

The component outputs are always YpBpR, so you don't have that problem. Most TV's that accept 1080p will accept RGB-HDMI, so you don't have that problem.

The video shake is do to timing being set to RGB values. Most TV's that accept 1080p accept RGB timings, so you don't have that problem. Component video inputs will no accept RGB timings, so you will have the shaking issue. Using HDMI with 1080p will most likely result in no issues. Using HDMI with 720p or 1080i will result in issues (unless your set accepts RGB-HDMI).

Using non-HDMI inputs and using the scaler will result in issues (same cases as above) Turning the scaler bypass on makes non-HDMI inputs resolution-bypass, but they still go through the scaler. You probably won't have the jumpy video anymore, but the black level issue will remain.

Aside from not passing 1080p/24, setting the unit to 1080p will most likely result in no issues if your TV can accept 1080p.

Kevin D.

[lotones]

Works great. It's just stereo so it appears the same as running spdif. Anything over 2 channels shows up as MPCM and you cannot apply any soundfield.

Kevin D.

Thanks... that's great. That will work for me.

[kiwi2000]

Kevin D wrote;

The black level issue isn't the 1069 clipping the information off. It's just that the HDMI ouput of the 1069, when using the scaler, is only RGB-HDMI. A lot of TV's do not support this type of HDMI connection. All the grayscale information is still there, just in a different place then YpBpR-HDMI.

There's 240 shades on your standard gray-scale. YpBpR-HDMI has black as 16 and white as 255. RGB-HDMI has black as 0, white as 238. So the 1069 always sends out grayscale as 0-238. If your TV only accepts YpBpR-HDMI, it's only looking at 16-255. So you lose all information 0-15 (leaving your really black 'blacks' out) and there's nothing on 239-255 (so you lose your really white 'whites')

The component outputs are always YpBpR, so you don't have that problem. Most TV's that accept 1080p will accept RGB-HDMI, so you don't have that problem.

The video shake is do to timing being set to RGB values. Most TV's that accept 1080p accept RGB timings, so you don't have that problem. Component video inputs will no accept RGB timings, so you will have the shaking issue. Using HDMI with 1080p will most likely result in no issues. Using HDMI with 720p or 1080i will result in issues (unless your set accepts RGB-HDMI).

Using non-HDMI inputs and using the scaler will result in issues (same cases as above) Turning the scaler bypass on makes non-HDMI inputs resolution-bypass, but they still go through the scaler. You probably won't have the jumpy video anymore, but the black level issue will remain.

Aside from not passing 1080p/24, setting the unit to 1080p will most likely result in no issues if your TV can accept 1080p.

Am I reading this correctly that evn with the mod installed many issues are still present using the HDMi connection unless you are using a 1080p display?

I am hoping that I have interpreted this information wrong and I hope to be corrected on it.

[Nolan B]

Am I reading this correctly that evn with the mod installed many issues are still present using the HDMi connection unless you are using a 1080p display?

I am hoping that I have interpreted this information wrong and I hope to be corrected on it.

with the mod there are no issues if you select bypass.

[Kevin D]

with the mod there are no issues if you select bypass.

Correct, my post was without the mod or when not using the BYPASS option. I've edited my post to reflect that.

Kevin D.

[avrtRick]

Hi Kevin,and members

I haven't been here in a while,wont go into reasons though

anyway,I hope I have this right.
my tv(kds60r2000)accepts rgb signals as good as any other(I output 1080p RGB from my dvdo vp50)
So if I am interpreting your statement correctly,"IF" I were to use the scaler in the 1069, I would not have these issues of clipping?

Since I live in the land of Oz, I am limited to the choice of pre/pros and the 1069 is first on my list followed by the nad T175 that is coming in at a close second.

I had initially put off purchasing the 1069 due to these issues, and may I ask some other questions please

does the 1069 output OSD over HDMI?

I thought I seen mention of the 1069 able to add post proceesing for MPCM,but it seems from one of your posts above(163)that it cannot.
Do you think that Rotel could enable post processing on MPCM signal via firmware?
(though that is not a deal breaker if they cant)

With the video bypass in place does it allow for 1080p24hz pass through?

What DAC's are used in the 1069 and how many?

I have the RMB1095 And the RB1080 and the 1069 would definitly be the perfect partner IMO

I do understand that may well have covered these topics already but would be very appreciative if you can answer these questions to put my mind at ease to
make this purchase

thanks very much

Rick

[Nolan B]

I thought I seen mention of the 1069 able to add post proceesing for MPCM,but it seems from one of your posts above(163)that it cannot.
Do you think that Rotel could enable post processing on MPCM signal via firmware?
(though that is not a deal breaker if they cant)

Ill answer this beause I was litterally just thing about it last night. No it doesn't do post processing to PCM, but I am sure it could via a firmware update. Will we get that update? I highly doubt it.

[hifiguymi]

does the 1069 output OSD over HDMI?

Yes it does.

I thought I seen mention of the 1069 able to add post proceesing for MPCM,but it seems from one of your posts above(163)that it cannot.
Do you think that Rotel could enable post processing on MPCM signal via firmware?
(though that is not a deal breaker if they cant)

Vancouver just answered this.

With the video bypass in place does it allow for 1080p24hz pass through?

Yes

What DAC's are used in the 1069 and how many?

Burr Brown 24bit/192kHz DAC's and there are four of them.

I have the RMB1095 And the RB1080 and the 1069 would definitly be the perfect partner IMO

I would agree. I have a customer that has the same electronics with a complete B&W 700 Series speaker system and it sounds great.

Eric

[avrtRick]

Thanks guys,

I just read all 168 posts and was coming back to edit my post but you both beat me
there,but thanks for your replies all the same

I will get my dealer to order one tomorrow

[Kevin D]

does the 1069 output OSD over HDMI?
Rick

I'll clarify this. The 1069 will output the MENU system for setup and such over HDMI. It will not overlay information on top of the video, unless the video is coming from a composite or svideo source.

Kevin D.

[garak]

A possible related issue, applying any 7.1 matrix to a DTS 96/24 track will lock the DSP chip up the same way. XS or PLIIx will only play 1-3 minutes before you have to power-cycle. I haven't relayed this to them yet, so no info on that.

The only thing I see as a drawback for some people is the RSP-1069 will not add any post processing to a multi-channel PCM input. An example where this would affect someone is if they had a 7.1 system and the movie they were watching has a 5.1 soundtrack. The surround back speakers wouldn't play. The Rotel will not add anything to the incoming signal so you hear what is on the disc and nothing more. If you have a 5.1 system, that wouldn't matter. Other than that, I think all of the issues have been addressed.

Given these two issues, is there any good reason to goto a 7.1 setup with the 1069?

I was considering this option, but it seems to me that with the issues noted above, one would be better of staying with a 5.1 setup.

[cxc21]

Given these two issues, is there any good reason to goto a 7.1 setup with the 1069?

I was considering this option, but it seems to me that with the issues noted above, one would be better of staying with a 5.1 setup.

I decided on 5.1 also because most everything out there seems to be is 5.1 anyway

[Mig17]

I think DSP lock-up issue is very rare

[avrtRick]

So I guess I should hook up the RMB1095 to the 5.1 channels and hook up the RB1080
to the back two(I dont see any reason to hook the RB1080 up to the front two and have two amps running when only five channels are needed)

And I could possibly run the compisite cables from the 1069 to the vp50 and HDMI back through to the 1069 and HDMI out from there to the KDS.

That should not be a problem should it?

[kiwi2000]

video mod

Well here I am with my new 1069 and the video mod installed along with all of the other latest firm ware upgrades.

I have hooked it up and enabled the video pass through, and run composite cable to my monitor and projector for viewing. It does not work!

The only thing it will show is the onscreen display when selected. I thought that when pass through was enabled that it would do just that, pass through the video exactly as it is output from the device. Nothing works through this output, not the cable or the DVD.

Any suggestions?

[lotones]

I think pass-through is only for HDMI out.

[cxc21]

Of course not, looks like you bypass the scaler/video processor so there can't be a composite output from that HDMI input.