RSP-1068/1098 replacements

[mafoo]

Is there any further speculation on the feature set and possibility of an 07 roll-out for 1068/1098 replacements? I'm wondering if we'll see HDMI 1.3 w/ Dolby Plus/TrueHD decoding. I have to complete my upgrade by end of 07 or lose a 3 year window with my dealer where I get full price credit on my old gear for trade-up. I'd rather run 8 cables from the HD player to a Rotel pro then stoop to Denon/Pioneer/Yamaha for the HDMI 1.3 (they'll surely have it in 07), but still would prefer fewer cables and decoding in the pro.

[shadow 8]

A search of this site should show there is supposed to be a replacement for the 1098 and possibly the 1068 later this year or more likely early next year, but no confirmation from Rotel. I for one am doubtful of a HDMI 1.3 on the Rotels since these parts are in very short supply due to Sony supposedly buying almost all of them for the PS 3 release before Christmas. If true, Rotel will likely either delay release or more likely have HDMI with 1.1 or 1.2 upon release. Anthem has the AVM 40, 50 and D1 and D2 with HDMI 1.1, which works fine with all hi def codecs currently in use. Anthem has a great record for upgrading its units in the field so I suspect a 1.3 option will be available by the middle of next year when supply of the parts meets demand.

[bullitt731]

I am sure the retail sales of the 1098 and 1068 have slowed down to a trickle. If companies like Denon and Pioneer come out with 1.3 units next spring Rotel can not afford to be too far behind. I am in the same boat and expect them to be releasing something by next fall at the latest.

[mafoo]

Anthem has the AVM 40, 50 and D1 and D2 with HDMI 1.1, which works fine with all hi def codecs currently in use. Anthem has a great record for upgrading its units in the field so I suspect a 1.3 option will be available by the middle of next year when supply of the parts meets demand.

My dealer (who I'm happy with) doesn't sell Anthem. Trade in options on my Pio Elite AVR would be for another Pio Elite, Denon, Rotel, or something higher end (like Lexicon, Meridian, McIntosh, Mark Levinson, etc...). I think Rotel is the best fit for my price range. Looking at 1068 replacement mated w/ an a RMB 1077.

[BlazeMaster]

I work for a local AV shop and recently had a chance to speak to one of our Denon reps about Denon's possible support for either HD DVD or Blu Ray and he basically told me that Denon's is not leaning towards either side. If that is true, I don't see why Denon would be rushing to designing a AVR with HDMI1.3 support, although their AVR and DVD players do currently support the current HDMI versions. I think Denon is in a state of denial and that they believe their Denon 3930CI and 5910CI can upconvert a SD DVD to the quality of Toshiba HD A1 upconverting SD DVD, and he showed me an article on Forbes that claimed that their DVD player is as good as the new formats. I was polite and did not share my opinion with him, but to sell a DVD player for three times the price of HDA1 just to "upconvert" as good as HDA1, and CANNOT play HD DVDs? I'll take my HDA1 anyday. Now with that said, if companies like Denon is not planning on jumping towards HD DVD formats, I don't think Rotel will for at least a few more years later. Buy the 1068 or 1098 now and you can still use HDA1 to use analog 5.1 to get DolbyHD.

[DrJRapp]

he showed me an article on Forbes that claimed that their DVD player is as good as the new formats.

It is if your silly enough to watch HDDVD vs upscaled SDVD on a monitor with SD inputs! That's probably what Forbes' reviewer did....lol
Unfortunatly, that's what I find is happening with all my HDTV naysayer friends. They've purchased monitors that say HDTV but the inputs only accept up to 720P (or the display has similar limits).

[mafoo]

Buy the 1068 or 1098 now and you can still use HDA1 to use analog 5.1 to get DolbyHD.

Even if the replacements don't have HDMI 1.3, they should at least have 1.1 or 1.2 for passing PCM from the HD/BD player. So I think it is still worth waiting. I actually think the 1.3 benefits are not that great..
- encoded DTS/Dolby HD (decoded PCM should work fine on 1.1/1.2)
- "DeepColor" - Really nice when display technology and sources catch up, which I think will be a long time
- higher bandwidth - ditto
- smaller connector - could be the best near term feature for those crowded AVR and pre/pro back panels. Of course I think a lot of these companies should seriously start considering a reduction of the stereo analog and vid composite connections. Just because they're cheap, doesn't mean you put 10 of them on for extra marketing points!

[Blindamood]

smaller connector - could be the best near term feature for those crowded AVR and pre/pro back panels. Of course I think a lot of these companies should seriously start considering a reduction of the stereo analog and vid composite connections.

My understanding is that HDMI 1.3 will offer a smaller connector as an option, for other types of devices, such as portables. I believe the larger connector will remain on AVRs. Of course, this is still a huge space savings vs. video and 5.1 audio connections.

[JDH]

Problem with smaller connectors is that they tend to be more prone to failure due to poor connection.

My understanding is that HDMI 1.3 will offer a smaller connector as an option, for other types of devices, such as portables. I believe the larger connector will remain on AVRs. Of course, this is still a huge space savings vs. video and 5.1 audio connections.

[Clepto]

My understanding is that HDMI 1.3 will offer a smaller connector as an option, for other types of devices, such as portables. I believe the larger connector will remain on AVRs. Of course, this is still a huge space savings vs. video and 5.1 audio connections.

The modular option is one I would hope would take off more. I know Integra offers such an option, where you can basically choose what kind of a/v input output modules you want...

i.e. you can have a module that's either:

2 component video in, or 4 hdmi in (etc.)

[2manyremotes]

I agree with JDH. If your into HD than HDMI is not your connection. They are known for poor contact. And any high end install will use componet.

[Clepto]

I agree with JDH. If your into HD than HDMI is not your connection. They are known for poor contact. And any high end install will use componet.

If you're into HD, then HDMI is really your ONLY option. Anyone relying on component for the future is looking at a world of hurt when the ICT flags get enabled and you can only get max 540p out of component video cables vs 1080p or higher from HDMI... Not that we'll see anything in the 4k realm anytime soon.

[Tweir]

Denon's possible support for either HD DVD or Blu Ray and he basically told me that Denon's is not leaning towards either side.


What the rep didn't tell you is that Denon is planing on a disc player that will play all formats. Just like what they have now with the additon of HDDVD, and Blu Ray. Still for standard dvd the 3910 and up look pretty good.That's what I heard.

[Clepto]

There's also the fact that Denon's audio playback is obviouslly much better than a Toshiba HDA1's (which doesn't do SACD or DVD-A).

That's part of why people are still willing to shell out that much for an SD DVD player, audio, as well as video.

[2manyremotes]

THERE IS SO MUCH BAD INFO. RG6 component cable will and do support 1080i or 1080p. HDMI is a digital signal and component is analog thats the difference. We will be forced out of using component in the future by the HD formats that forbid using the componet outputs and will require them to be disabled when the signal is used.
No matter what you use today you should be fine with any quality cable.

[Clepto]

THERE IS SO MUCH BAD INFO. RG6 component cable will and do support 1080i or 1080p. HDMI is a digital signal and component is analog thats the difference. We will be forced out of using component in the future by the HD formats that forbid using the componet outputs and will require them to be disabled when the signal is used.
No matter what you use today you should be fine with any quality cable.

That's what I said, and that's why for a long term investment, it makes sense to go HDMI in favor of Component, since chances are that you'll be able to get more resolution out of the HDMI vs component due to the flagging.

Not to mention, you can't upconvert standard DVD over component cables for 99% of DVD players. So if you want to watch that DVD at 720, 1080i or 1080p, you HAVE to go DVI or HDMI. Or you can stick to 480p over component.

[BlazeMaster]

HDMI is not the only way to go, people. I work for an AV chain, and you guys would be surprised how many ignorant customer that we get coming into the store looking for HDMI cables. Their mind is imprinted with the fact that HDMI is the only way to go, and when we try to explain to them that HDMI is not the factor that determine whether their TV or DVD player will end up with best picture quality, they treat us like used car salesman trying to empty their pockets on something they don't need.
Take the Toshiba HDA1 for example, the component output can do everything that the HDMI output can do, and for some people's display, component might even end up looking better(most will say it's same). The audio portion of the HDA1 can simply be transported through 6 analog RCA cables to your pre or receiver. The HDA1 can't even output @1080p only @1080i, even though all HD DVD discs are encoded @1080p. There is no 7.1 content still, and when there is you can still use your good ol' analog cables. I personally think that HDMI is just another way that the manufacture's turn ignorant people into ignorant consumers.

[shadow 8]

I tend to agree. If/when the image token on HD software is activated, then we will all have to use HDMI to get full image resolution, but that is unlikely to occur for years due to the many HD monitors out there with no HDMI connections. Since many of these folks are big video hobbyists, the software people will not cut them off without a lot of thought. When 1.3 comes out, the idea of a one cable solution is tempting.

[2manyremotes]

Thank You BlazeMaster. Its good to here from you. The biggest misconception is that HDMI is error free digital and it is a direct path with no scaling or conversion and that is false.
In fact HDMI cable lengths have limits that Componet far excedes and if a part of the digital signal get corrupt or lost it is gone for good. plus the fact that the contacts our to small and prone to bad connection issues.

[Clepto]

[QUOTE=BlazeMaster]
Take the Toshiba HDA1 for example, the component output can do everything that the HDMI output can do, and for some people's display, component might even end up looking better(most will say it's same).

The component output CAN'T do everything the HDMI output can do, because the HDA1 CANNOT upconvert an SD DVD to 720p/1080i over component...

[EastCoaster]

A search of this site should show there is supposed to be a replacement for the 1098 and possibly the 1068 later this year or more likely early next year, but no confirmation from Rotel. I for one am doubtful of a HDMI 1.3 on the Rotels since these parts are in very short supply due to Sony supposedly buying almost all of them for the PS 3 release before Christmas. If true, Rotel will likely either delay release or more likely have HDMI with 1.1 or 1.2 upon release. Anthem has the AVM 40, 50 and D1 and D2 with HDMI 1.1, which works fine with all hi def codecs currently in use. Anthem has a great record for upgrading its units in the field so I suspect a 1.3 option will be available by the middle of next year when supply of the parts meets demand.

There will be no upgrades for Anthem products from HDMI 1.0, 1.1, or 1.2(a) for that matter, up to HDMI 1.3. This is a hardware issue, not a software issue. If you check with Anthem, they will tell you this. And if Anthem won't upgrade, do you think anyone else will? Anthem is the king of upgrades...

[shadow 8]

And your point is what? You know that next summer Anthem will not offer an upgrade to 1.3? Must be nice to see the future What does your post possibly have to do with the upcoming Rotel pre/pros?

[EastCoaster]

And your point is what? You know that next summer Anthem will not offer an upgrade to 1.3? Must be nice to see the future What does your post possibly have to do with the upcoming Rotel pre/pros?

Ehhhh, hello? What did YOUR own point about Anthem have to do with the upcoming Rotel pre/pros? I was only responding to your point about Anthem offering an upgrade path for units in the "field" through to HDMI 1.3 - it won't happen, and Anthem has said so themselves - call them and ask. You wouldn't want to offer bad information to the readers of this thread, would you? Such an upgrade can't happen because, again, it's a hardware issue, not a software issue.

[shadow 8]

They are offering hardware updates for the AVM 30 to the 40 or 50 now, so why not offer one next year for 1.3? I will accept your word that Anthem does not plan to offer 1.3 now, but if there is a demand for it next year and the current chasis design can accept the new hardware, I would be surprised if it was not offered, albeit at a significant price.

[EastCoaster]

They are offering hardware updates for the AVM 30 to the 40 or 50 now, so why not offer one next year for 1.3? I will accept your word that Anthem does not plan to offer 1.3 now, but if there is a demand for it next year and the current chasis design can accept the new hardware, I would be surprised if it was not offered, albeit at a significant price.

All I can say is what they've told me on the telephone - that they won't be offering upgrades to 1.3. When I asked why, they said it was a hardware issue. Personally, I think if one is going to spend $6,000 on the Statement D2 processor, one should have an upgrade path... But enough about Anthem, I don't want anyone to think we're hijacking this thread! :W

[shadow 8]

You know the whole thing may mean nothing regarding 1.3. Even on the enthusiasts web sites, the new new codecs iike Blu ray and HDDVD do not appear to be gaining much traction. My concern would be to buy a 1099 w/o 1.3 then have the new codecs with 1.3 take off since I would hate to have to take a beating on resale after a recent purchase. (Back on topic again )

[nash]

Since you can use the HD player to decode the new codecs and then ship the audio digitally across HDMI using PCM, there's not a huge improvement in having a pre/pro with decoder ability. It would give you more flexibility, but it's certainly not a requirement for enjoyment of the new codecs. Any version of HDMI will do, so I wouldn't be crushed if a 1099 came out with only 1.1 or 1.2. Still, I'd feel a bit shortchanged if I were buying a 1099 in spring/summer 07 and not getting 1.3 for futureproofing (it would be nice to have 1.3 video switching for the higher bit video that we'll eventually see TV's support).

[Clepto]

Since you can use the HD player to decode the new codecs and then ship the audio digitally across HDMI using PCM, there's not a huge improvement in having a pre/pro with decoder ability.

Some of the hd players don't have the full support though, i.e. they can do 5.1 over PCM, but not the full 7.1. This is more a limitation of the players themselves though, not the version of HDMI.