Sunfire Ultimate vs Rotel RSP-1098

[dali]

Hello!

I have a RSP 1066 and a RMB 1066 since about 18 months back. On another forum I saw a thread about Sunfire Ultimate Receiver and it looks sweet, 7x200W and just about all formats you can need. The price (in the US) seems to be around $3200, only about $300 more than a RSP 1098 but with 7x200W included.

Has anoyone tested the Sunfire and can compare it to RSX 1055/1056 or RSP1098?

[gostan]

Dali:

I listened to the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver and it certainly sounds better (more headroom) than the Rotel 1055. We do not know what the 1056 will sound like. I have some difficulty getting over all of the lights on the faceplate. It is also 2 1/2 times the cost of a 1055, so in theory it should sound better.

You would need to compare the separate Theater Grand III preamp and a Cinema Seven of Cinema Grand Signature Amp to a 1098 with a 1075 or 1095 amp in order to be fair. The Sunfire preamp is about $500 more than the 1098 and the Sunfire amps are more comparable in price to the 1095. My dealer who sells Sunfire and Rotel likes the sound of the Sunfire over the Rotel, but I am not yet sold on it just because the Sunfire costs more. I do like the Theatermaster remote that comes bundled with the Sunfire and the extra power is nice. Other forums indicate that there have been some software and quality control issues with Sunfire. But then again Rotel took back my thrice-repaired 1055.

By the way, Sunfire has announced the Theater Grand IV and an updated Ultimate Receiver. I an going to listen to Parasound before making a decision on Sunfire or Rotel. That is, if I can locate a Parasound dealer near me. I am also waiting to listen to the new 1068. If it sounds somewhere in between the 1066 and the 1098, it is a price bargain. I do love the sound of the 1098 for analog stereo and multi-channel. Digitally it is good, but I understand that there may be better analog-digital sounding pre-amps. I do not want to make a mistake as this is an expensive upgrade. But I am tiring of listening to my Denon bottom-rung loaner.

[kneptune]

You might want to reconsider Sunfire products or at least the Sunfire Theater Grands pre/pro and receiver.

The Audioholics web-site disliked the Sunfire Theater Grand III so much that they did not even do a full review on it. They DECLINED to review it. They labelled over a dozen deficiencies and felt its audio quality was below par. It's not often that you see such a negative review. I personally have the 1098 and am extremely happy with it.

See the Audioholics article and their comments at:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/SunfireTheaterGrandIIIProcessorReview.html

-Kevin

[dali]

kneptune: Thanks for the info, that review certainly makes you think twice about Sunfire's products.

However, there are other reviews that are far more favorable:

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/sunfire_theater_grandiii.htm

http://www.audaud.com/audaud/DEC02/E...uip1DEC02.html
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ee-4-2003.html

and one about the Ultimate Receiver:

http://webcenter.soundandvision.netscape.com/electronics/ns/article/0,aid,231,00.asp

As always, reviews about subjective matters are only pointers, not the whole truth. But if a product, like the Rotel RSP 1066, always gets rave reviews you pretty much have to believe them (and they were right!). In this case, it's a lot more difficult to know what to do, especially if you don't have the opportunity to test the product yourself.

[jimmyp58]

Dali:

I think you have already received some good pointers and I hope to add to this. I admit that I have not auditioned the Sunfire but I have some stats to share along with some anecdotal comments.

Before sharing the stats I will say upfront that stats are just that, stats. Truly, it is the ear that should make the final decision. That being said, the stats can point certain aspects out and can at least narrow the field down for you. Take this fact into account. I'll focus on the manufacturers stated THD @ 8 ohms and list a few amps for you:

SUNFIRE Cinema Grand Signature Series II - < 0.5%
Rotel RMB-1095 - < 0.03%
Bryston 9B SST - < 0.005%
Anthem MCA 50 - 0.03%
Earthquake CineNova Grande 5 - 0.003%

These are just a few I've done some research on.

Here are my anecdotal comments. I've been around long enough to see the phases of Bob Carver, his products, and the companies he works for. Going back to the late '70's to early 80's, he was a designer for Phase Linear and they put out some VERY powerful amps. Major problem was noise distortion. Yeah they were loud but boy, you couldn't listen to them for long. He breaks off from Phase Linear (I believe they folded) and brought a line of amps and pre-amps that looked identical to Phase Linear. He named them "Bob Carver" - clever. Same scenario --- lots of power and lots of distortion. Fast forward to the present and you have him doing the Sunfire thing. Many products, lots of power. Read the literature and most will say what I just have said about his legacy. These newer products have lots of power and distortion to accompany them. So what has changed over the years?

Dr. Carver is far more intelligent than me in this arena in fact I'd consider him a genius of sorts. But among his successes (or failures depending how you look at it) I give him one thing, he is a master marketer.

There are those that swear by his products and there are those that curse them.

Only your ears will be the judge.....

Jim