New DSP-1098 owner; Questions on MP3 & HDCD

[daidavel]

I'm the proud owner of a new DSP-1098 ... my first Rotel component! Love it so far ... it's used primarily for home theater. I'm curious about the MP3 and HDCD capabilities though. HDCD is new to me, do I simply put a HDCD in my CD player and use the digital optical cable to connect the CD player to the Rotel and the digital bitstream will be passed automatically for decoding?
For MP3, what would I use to pass MP3 info into the Rotel? I have a portable MP3 player, but it of course does its own decoding ... I tried putting a CDR full of MP3s in my DVD player (connected to Rotel w/digital coax), and the DVD player looked like it was playing something, but apparently no signal was getting passed to the Rotel. Seems like the MP3 processing in the Rotel isn't really useful as most devices that can understand MP3s decode them themselves ... ??

Thanks for any input,
Dave

[mazuly]

Hi and welcome to the club.

On your first question, you are right. RSP-1098 will automatically recognize and decode and HDCD when it sees a HDCD digital signal. You will see HDCD appear on the TFT screen for a few seconds.

As for MP3, that is a little different. You have to feed the RSP-1098 an MP3 signal and most players may not be able to do that. Does your DVD player support MP3? If yes, it may or may not work depending on what signal is sent to RSP-1098 and at what quality.

Try this, rip a song in different qualities (128, 160, 192 and 320 kb/s) and write it to a CDR. Play the tracks and see which version is recognized by RSP-1098. Also check to see if you need to change any settings in the DVD player for MP3 playback.

Good luck and let us know how it went.

Thanks,
Maziar

[daidavel]

Hi Maziar, thanks for the welcome and the information! I'll have to seek out an HDCD and see how it sounds. On the MP3 point, I'm thinking my DVD players don't recognize MP3. I have a Pioneer Elite DV-05 and a Sony 7000 ... both a little older players. The Pioneer acts like its playing the CDR, but it treats it as if its one long track ... so I doubt it actually knows what its doing ... haven't tried it in the Sony yet. I guess my point is that if the source device knows what an MP3 is, then it will do the decoding itself ... unless the Rotel somehow does a better job of decoding, it seems like its not a particularly useful feature ...

Thanks,
Dave

[skipm]

Dave-

Welcome to the Club! Your sources, in this case your DVD/CD player has to be able to decode and pass along HDCD and MP3 signals to the 1098. The 1098 handles MP3's wonderfully, I usually rip mine at 192~320 VBR. I don't own a HDCD so I don't know how that sounds but I seen messages from other folks who do and they have no problems enjoying them through the 1098.

Let us know if you have anymore questions.

-Skip

[mazuly]

Hi,

Just one point though, your DVD/CD player does NOT need to be a HDCD unit (being able to decode HDCD) to be able to send the digital HDCD signal to RSP-1098. My DVD player (Rotel RDV-1080) can not decode HDCD, but sends the correct HDCD signal for RSP-1098 to decode.

As for HDCD coded CDs, you most probably have one, since they sometime don't advertise it on the CD, so start testing all your CDs to see which one is HDCD .

Thanks,
Maziar

[skipm]

Mazuly-

My bad. I thought HDCD needed to be decoded in the player since my Samsung DVD-HD1000 has the HDCD logo on the front of it. Thanx for clearing that up. I'm almost tempted now to go buy one just to see if I can tell the difference between a regualr CD and a HDCD.

-Skip

[mazuly]

Hi skip,

HDCD does sound better, but it is very dependent on the player. That is evident even if you use digital connection between the source and the pre-pro (jitter issue). I had an in home audition of the RCD-1072 and HDCD disks were just amazing. There was more details and better soundstage in all HDCD recording. But some of it was due to the player since my RDV-1080 DVD player could not match the sound of RCD-1072 (RSP-1098 was doing the decoding of the HDCD). One of my favorite HDCD disks is City Of Angels Soundtrack. Sarah McLachlan voice just comes alive on the song Angel. Interestingly the HDCD version in this soundtrack sounds better than the album version.

Thanks,
Maziar

[Andrew Pratt]

Skip how are you passing a digital MP3 signal to the 1098? The only way I know how to do it is with a little Harmon Kardon interface unit or perhaps a PC.

[skipm]

Maziar -- I have the City of Angels Soundtrack on CD and it's one of my favorites as well so I'll see if I can locate a HDCD version and do a A-B comparison. My Samsung DVD-HD1000 is connected to my 1098 via digital coax and RCA analogue so I can do some A-B-C comparison that way as well. How A-B-C you ask? The Samsung DVD-HD1000 comes equipped with two different, selectable audio DACs, a Shannon and a Fluency, produced in a technical tie-up between Samsung Electronics and Luxman, to "deliver sound quality as close to the original as possible".

Andrew -- Right now all I'm doing is burning my MP3s to a CD and playing them back on the Samsung through the 1098. I just finished ripping about 450 CDs using a nifty little freeware program called CDex. However, I'm about to place an order for the following:

http://www.rokulabs.com/products/hd1000/index.php

What I like about the Roku is the fact that it doesn't require any software running on your media server. That and the fact it will display digital pictures in HD. I don't know if you are into digital photography that much but if you are then you might want to give this a look see.

-Skip

[will1066]

Skip, there is only one City of Angels motion picture soundtrack. It is HDCD-encoded; look in the back and there is the HDCD logo at the bottom left. If your rig has HDCD decoding somewhere in the chain (whether it's in the CD player or pre/pro), then HDCD will be "activated." If the system does not have HDCD decoding anywhere, the CD will still play but you will be listening to it "conventionally." HDCD cannot be de-activated or not selected. Therefore, you can never have a really fair comparison on a single machine.

[mazuly]

Maziar -- I have the City of Angels Soundtrack on CD and it's one of my favorites as well so I'll see if I can locate a HDCD version and do a A-B comparison.

Hi Skip,

I think you already have the HDCD version, since that CD was released in HDCD (at least here in Canada). Mine does not say HDCD on it anywhere but when I feed it to RSP-1098 digitally, the HDCD logo appears on the TFT screen.

Also regarding Roku, this product seems very interesting. I would appreciate it if you could write a review on it if you get one since I am interested in it as well. Just a note though, if you send any music in MP3, wave or AIFF format from your PC to this unit, the unit will probably change it to wave format before sending it out from SPDIF coaxial output. I may be wrong though.

As for ripping, I use EAC with Lame or MusicMatch. EAC is one of the most accurate ripping software available on the net. It does accurate rips with error correction from all CDs and it is free.

Skip how are you passing a digital MP3 signal to the 1098? The only way I know how to do it is with a little Harmon Kardon interface unit or perhaps a PC.

Hi Andrew,

I think if you have a MP3 capable DVD/CD player and hook it up to RSP-1098 digitally, then the digital signal sent would be in MP3 format. Your assumption for that Harmon Kardon is right though, since most computer soundcards, will turn the MP3 to wave format when connected to RSP-1098, even if you use the soundcards digital output.


Thanks,
Maziar

[mazuly]

Oops I guess will1066 got the word out before me

By the way, my CD does not say HDCD anywhere on it. I really looked everywhere on the CD, CD cover, back cover, the insert...etc and I can not find one.

Thanks,
Maziar

[will1066]

Must be a Canadian thing. :LOL:

[mazuly]

I am sure it is.

We only accept the best and don't need to advertise for it

Thanks,
Maziar

[will1066]

Touche. Touche. Well played.

[skipm]

Will & Mazier-

Duh, it dawned on me about 10 minutes after I posted my message that the CD I had probably was the HDCD version and there was no need to purchase another one. I'm sure my wife has it in her car so I'll have to confiscate it when I get home. I also have Natalie Merchant's Ophelia, which according to the HDCD website is also a HDCD. I'll give that one a try as well.

Speaking of the HDCD website, I came across this information that addresses the HDCD player versus HDCD receiver question: "High Definition Compatible Digital (HDCD) recordings will always sound better than conventional CDs when played on any CD player. However, because HDCD recordings are encoded with 20 bits of musical information as opposed to 16 bits for conventional CDs, a player that decodes HDCD will produce even higher-quality sound from HDCD-encoded CDs."

Maziar -- CDex also uses Lame and so far I've been very impressed with the results. I'll let you know how it goes with the Roku when it comes in. Roku was developed by the guy who created ReplayTV. He named it Roku because roku is "6" in Japanese and this is his sixth company. As far as I know there is no conversion back to WAV before playback. Their website has a pretty good discussion group that is geared more to the developer and there are also some good discussions going on in other forums and I can post the links to if you like.

-Skip

[will1066]

I think the description from the HDCD site has a bit of hype to it, specifically "High Definition Compatible Digital (HDCD) recordings will always sound better than conventional CDs when played on any CD player." Skip, listen and judge for yourself. In general, all HDCD-encoded CDs sound pretty nice, but quality among different HDCDs varies. The better ones I have include Jewel "Spirit" and John Mellencamp (1998 self-titled). Other ones I have that are good but not quite as good as the aforementioned are City of Angels, Paula Cole "This Fire," Natalie Merchant "Ophelia" and Megadeth "Cryptic Writings."

[mazuly]

Well said Will.

Like any other recordings, some sound good and others are just bad. For example I have Santana Shaman DVD-A. Even though the 2 channel version sounds very good, the surround version is just plain bad. It all depends how it was recorded in the studio. More bits does not mean better sound all the time. And by the way, if your DVD/CD player produces a good digital signal (low jitter signal), the RSP-1098 should be able to produce a very good sound. That was very evident when I was using RCD-1072 which sounded better digitally when compared to my RDV-1080. But RCD-1072 sounded even better using the analog connection.

Thanks,
Maziar

[Kevin D]

Skip:

As far as I know there is no conversion back to WAV before playback.

Technically most if not all players convert MP3's back to wav before they output it. It's done 'on the fly' so to speak. Meaning the Roku's output and most MP3 DVD players will send a 44.1khz/16bit PCM signal out when playing MP3's.. The 1098 has the ability to decode an MP3 'on the fly' also, the question is how to send a file to the 1098 instead of an audio signal. For that I believe the HK piece is required..

I think the word from Rotel was "yeah it can do it, but since you need other pieces we didn't really push the feature"

Kevin D.

[skipm]

Hey Guys-

I spent a few hours last nite listening to the two HDCD's I could lay my hands on, the "City of Angels Soundtrack" and Jewel's "Spirit". My 1098 never gave any indication at all it was receiving an HDCD signal. My DVD player is connected to the 1098 via analog, coax3, and multi-channel inputs. When playing over the digital input it displayed "PCM 2 CH" in the menu. The HDCD indicator light was lit on the DVD player the entire time.

I listened to both over the analog and digital inputs and used the various modes to get a feel on what effect they had on the overall sound. I could hear a difference when using the DVD player's audio DAC versus the 1098's. Both were very good. Will1066 was right on the money about Jewel's "Spirit". There is a clarity there you don't normally hear on CD. If you need a HDCD demo disk, this one gets my recommendation.

Have any of you tried the 5 CHANNEL STEREO mode? I love this mode on the 1098. I actually perfer it over DPL II MUSIC. I use the analog inputs in BYPASS mode for critical listening but it's 5 CHANNEL STEREO for everything else, except DVD-Audio. I had this mode on my Denon 3803 and used it some but I don't remember it sounding as good as it does on the 1098. I love acoustic music and am a living room guitar player and listening to acoustic music in this mode reminds me of sitting around with a few friends and playing.

Please don't pull my audiophile card just because I like the 5 CHANNEL STEREO mode.

-Skip