RSP 1098 Wish List V3.0b

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

As promised, HERE is V3.0b of the "Wish-list" for the Rotel RSP-1098 (updated Monday 26 January 2004 to reflect feedback to date).

Some key points:

• I have changed to a separate PDF file for easier printing, reading, maintenance and reference.
• You will see that it incorporate many new entries as well as major updates to the descriptions of all items.
• A rating system has been used to give a suggested relative priority for each item.
• I have reviewed the draft of this with a number of frequent posters and RSP-1098 owners.
• It is presented for review and comment (new suggestions, comments on existing suggestions, comments on the suggested priority etc.) via postings in this thread
• I will issue periodic changes with new versions (3.0a, 3.0b etc) to reflect peoples feedback.

In terms of the burning question "Will Rotel take any notice?" The answer is YES. However Rotel is (understandably) market driven and takes input based on demand from its subsidiaries and agents in a number of different countries to decide what products to develop and what changes to make to existing products. Now Club Rotel Members come from all over the world, so the best way to get Rotel to take notice is for each of you all over the world to forward this document to your local Rotel company or distributor and let then know that you support it and want all / some / most (take your pick) of the changes. Rotel receives requests from all over the world and needs to prioritise. Having requests for the same thing from lots of current customers will help them assess the list as being important.

I suggest we give the list a week to stabilize / be updated with people's feedback and then "Club Rotel who want to see the changes forward their requests and a copy of the latest version of the Wish List to their local Rotel organization or distributor

Enjoy!

Geoff Costello

[Kevin D]

Looks like you have the wrong detail under the volume scale relative heading..

Other than that, all I can say is damn.. That's impressive!

Kevin D.

[Aussie Geoff]

Kevin,

Thanks. I've corrected the text and updated the file (version 3.0a) which also incorporates a "disclaimer" just in case ...

Geoff Costello

[mazuly]

WOW, I am really impressed.

I will forward this to my dealer.

Thanks for your hard work.

Maziar

[Arnold van Oostrum]

Geoff, compliments on this terrific piece of work. The content is complete and of high information value. And it looks really professional.

One very little suggestion on my part. The name of the document is wishlist, maybe better to incorporate what the wishlist is about, i.e. Wishlist_RSP1098.pdf.

[Aussie Geoff]

Arnold,

Good suggestion - which I've now implemented (the link in my original post has been changed)! Several of the "wish list" items are based on your requests on this forum - I hope I've captured them well.

Given that you're happy with the wish list - see your Rotel distributor in the Netherlands and let them know that you want all, parts etc of it.

Geoff Costello

[Scarp]

I already had a chance to read it (and comment about it) a couple of days ago and its a good document and certainly useful for Rotel to take a look at and see what they can do.

Obviously most things they probably considered themselves too and they do have limitations off the Cirrus Chip. Writing all decoding software themselves (as Lexicon and Meridian do), is a big task and too big for Rotel. Thats why they use a chip like that Cirrus and not a standard DSP.

Also take into account pricing of the machine. Extra hardware, will cost more. Rotel is probably keen on making good value for money and that does limit their options.

However some things they definitly should change and I hope they will.

Anyway, good work Geoff.

[Aussie Geoff]

Scarp,

Thanks for the feedback over the last few days and taking the time to do the Parasound C2 Comparison. I think I captured all your feedback except for the "THX certification may be too restrictive" flavour as this seemed like sensitive information... The wish list even contains a number of your wish list items from back in the days when you were a RSP-1098 owner!

Re your (very valid) cost point - I am trying hard to be conscious of the hardware issue - hence the section at the end for Hardware Upgrades. If I get any information from Rotel that any of the other requests would require hardware upgrades or changes then I'll move them. Still, it's remarkable what can be done in software. Look at the new Progressive 1 to 4 options in the Display of the RSP-1098 with firmware version 1.1.6, or the change in the Volume Control in the RSP-1066 from a vertical bar to numbers with one of the latest firmware releases for that.

I've previously commented in a posting on the V2.0 wish list that Club Rotel members shouldn’t expect Rotel to actually commit to do all the changes, just to seriously consider them and prioritise them with the other customer requests and the relative budget available based on the level of sales success of the RSP-1098. It would be reasonable to get many of the changes over time, along with other market driven features. Some (such as the THX certification) may just never happen... I know that if we even get half of the changes it will make a big difference for many people....

Anyhow with any luck, most of these changes (other than the TFT related ones) will also apply equally to the RSP-1068 which looks like having the same processor - helping further benefit the market and provide a return on investment to Rotel for making the changes

Geoff Costello

[Scarp]

Geoff, its better to have tried and failed, then not have tried at all

Indeed we at Club Rotel seem to have some influence, since its proven in the past that suggestions where taken into account (most of the 1066 wish list is implemented in the 1098).

And its good that you have taken your time to make it in a format that is very usefull to Rotel. So all we need to do now is get this list up high and low within Rotel

[Azeke]

Geoff,

This truly is a comprehensive list, which seems to address the major issues.

Your diligence is truly appreciated.

Thanks,

Azeke

[microfast]

Hi,

As promised, HERE is V3.0a of the "Wish-list" for the Rotel RSP-1098.

Good work,

If useful, i can say that the request of the 0,5 dB. volume ( and channels level set ) steps is not possible.

This because the Toshiba chips used in the RSP1098 can do only 1dB. step ( this limitation there is not for the more normally used CS3310 and the PGA2310 ).

Regards
Marco

[Andrew Pratt]

And its good that you have taken your time to make it in a format that is very usefull to Rotel. So all we need to do now is get this list up high and low within Rotel

Already taken care of...its in the hands of a guy that's about as high up as you can get on this side of the pond

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi, (Version 3.0b now posted)

Thanks everyone for the support with this over the last few days both by posting and Email. I have just updated the main link at the head of this topic to be to Version 3.0b of the Wish List PDF file which incorporates a number of changes based on feedback from many of you. These include:

• Moving the Volume in 0.5 dB request to the "Hardware Change" section based on a posting to this forum and earlier feedback by Rotel on version 1.0 of the wish list which I now understand!
• Updating the THX material to better reflect Ultra2 capabilities and some members concerns / feedback over THX (THX seems the most controversial of the suggestions!)
• Including a very useful new suggestion about allowing the user to specify the default processing for each signal type and (optional) source input.
• Updating some of the TBAs on competitive perspectives.
• A number of minor wording changes / clarifications.

I'm excited already.

Geoff Costello

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

A quick update. I've had some initial feedback on our wish list from "some pretty senior figures at Rotel". Summarised:

• They have the list and are impressed by Club Rotel's creativity and the effort that has gone into it
• They are looking seriously at all requests
• They have cautioned against on being too optimistic about how many changes can be implemented
• A number of the requests would require hardware upgrades / extra hardware that would be likely to increase costs
• However any change that can be done in the RSP-1098's firmware will get due consideration for inclusion in future updates.

I have offered to explain more / update the list etc.

Promising. We'll see what happens

Geoff Costello

[n33]

Hello,

first post on this forum, but have been following the threads since a month or two.
Without any further introduction id just like to thank you lot for the time you put in to make the hc experience for all us rotel users even the more worthwile.

Your effort is verry much appreciated!
The above is great news indeed. So now its just wait and see if rotel will live up to its reputation and will deliver the goods, in which im pretty confident they will.

greetings,

Bart Alders

[Jason Brown]

I just took a good look at the wish list since I just bought a new 1098 a week ago...very impressive! I'd really like to see some of the changes regarding volume controls and displays and the test tone issues implemented.

One question I have though, is regarding the "TFT Off" request. I just want to make sure I understand it. When I turn off the screen on my 1098, it comes on when I adjust the volume and turns off again immediately after. Is this different from everyone else's, or am I misunderstanding the dynamics of the request?

One thing that may be of note is that I'm running version 1.1.2. I wonder if that might have anything to do with it. It will be somewhat of a big deal for me to update since the location of my processor prohibits easy access to the rear panel, and I don't have a laptop computer. Since I don't employ 7.1 for anything, I don't see a reason for me to update until I see something I can use (like some of the things on the wish list).

[Aussie Geoff]

Jason,

The request is from members who want the TFT display to be totally off (not black with a back light creating a glow) and to not come on with a volume change. This seems to be something some members feel reely strongly about. Some have even offered it as a reason for returning their RSP-1098s!

Geoff Costello

[Jason Brown]

Yeah, I can certainly understand the glowing display being a distraction. Although it does come on when I change my volume, it does go right back off. Completely off.

I guess mine is an anomoly?

[mazuly]

No that is normal. This is the way it works now and some owners, including me, find it very annoying. The reason for that is the clicking sounds it makes turning on and off and it is also distracting in a darken theater.

Thanks,
Maziar

[Jason Brown]

Aha. Okay.
I can live with it the way it is, but I agree the proposed change would be a definite improvement.

[Scarp]

Actually, what Rotel should do is put a proper TFT in the 1098 that does not have such a strong backlight. Its perfectly fine with me if the TFT is left on all the time with some text (TFT cant be burned in anyway) or just black, but it should not glow as it does. Also the clicking when turning off is annoying indeed.

I'm one of the people who returned the 1098 after 2 months. Partly due to this annoying TFT (this was not the only reason btw, the 1098 still sounded very good, by my current C2 I think is a lot better). Rotel should take a look at Parasounds C1 TFT. Thats a lot better implementation. Okay... the C1 is almost twice the price of the TFT.

[Michele Spinolo]

Geoff,

i read your list (great job!) and i have a request.
Could you please add this: I'd like to assign more than one digital input per input (i.e. 3 s/pdif inputs assigned to one source).
Obviously the signal on the s/pdif input must be a stereo PCM!

This is needed, for example, if you use 3 behringer DEQ2496 for room equalization: you can plug in the digital input of the DEQ2496 from the dvd player (3 s/pdif in total: http://www.dvdupgrades.ch/digital_audio.html) and then plug into the Rotel 1098 coming from the 3 DEQ with 3 digital signals.
In this way the whole treatment will take place in digital domain.

I do not know if this implementation can be made by a software upgrade on the 1098...anyway asking is free!




Bye
Michele

[Lex]

Only 31 pages? I thought it was a real document. :LOL:

Nice job Geoff.

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[Adz]

Unbelievable document. Quick question. I have several DVDs, some of them pretty new in which the back of the DVD cover references both DTS and Dolby 5.1 as being available on this disk. However, the DVD itself does not have set-up options for audio and when you press play the Rotel runs it as Dolby Digital every time. Is this the issue that you describe in the section on non-flagged sources? I'm a DTS fan and prefer it over DD pretty consistently.




Adz

[Aussie Geoff]

Adz,

Firstly make sure that your DVD player is set-up to play DTS and output DTD (it's an option in most of their set-up menus). I'll assume you have the 1.1.6 RSP-1098 firmware (the original 1.1.2 had a number of "exciting" issues with DTS in 7 channel mostly but would play DTS OK on 5.1!)

However, I too am a big DTS fan and still encounter the same thing all the time with DVDs. Rest assured it is just innovative ways the DVD manufacturers have thought up to hide the DTS option where you can't find it (its a game they play )

Try the DVD main menu and one of:[*] Languages (their favourite trick to hide DTS with choices like Latvian or Hungarian!)[*] Set-up[*] Audio[*] or ANY unlikely menu choice!

I bet you find it... (It becomes a fun game really)

Always once you have found DTS track and persuaded the DVD player to select it the RSP-1098 plays DTS brilliantly including DTS 96/26, DTS ES Matrix and DTS ES Discrete.

Geoff Costello

[Aussie Geoff]

Michele,

Re your request to assign 3 simultaneous digital inputs to the one device on the RSP-1098. Some comments:

• I've read the product sheets for the Cirrus DSP processor used and can't see how it can take more than one digital signal simultaneously
• I'm also not quite sure of the benefits for normal processing - since DVDs and CDs are output in digital. I can see the benefit for SACD and DVD-A - but the licening manufactures are VERY particularly about this wanting the digital signal to be transmitted in an encrypted fashion and have refused to certify or licence any manufacture that tried not to.
• There is a new standard (HDMI) that is designed to deal with this which is just now starting to become available on some products. A number of members have requested this be added and (being THE new standard for this) it makes sense.
• The board you mention makes a play on its web site of "is it legal" etc and is designed as a DVD player mod for one or two DVD players. As far as I can see from a quick web search - they are the only one making this (i.e. it is proprietary technology).

So - unless I've misunderstood something (in which case please let me know) or I get a couple of other Club Rotel members also wanting to include this - my preference is not to add it to the wish list as (based on the information I have) it is something that I can't really defend asking Rotel to add.

Geoff Costello

[kneptune]

Are there any recent new updates from Rotel insiders on the wish list firmware update for the 1098? Surely a decision by now has been made to go or no-go it. :? I would much rather have incremental updates rather than wait through a six-month effort for the whole package...

Concerning PL IIx, one would think (as has been said before) that Rotel can't introduce the 1068 with equivalent and/or newer processing modes (ie., PL IIx) and its flagship pre/pro not have it. Perhaps Rotel is dragging its feet on the 1068 roll-out in an attempt to have a new firmware version update available for the 1098, thus upon the 1068's release, both products have PL IIx simultaneously.

Kevin

[Azeke]

Kevin,

I am also waiting for the PLIIx update for the 1098, since I am running 7.1, I believe this upgrade will enhance my listening experience.

I wonder if Rotel has a RSP-1098 beta update.

I am certainly willing to give it a test, even if it is an incremental upgrade .

Release the bin :LOL: .

Regards,

Azeke

[kneptune]

Azeke has brought up a very interesting point. 8O Perhaps Rotel could consider some of the more senior members of Club Rotel as beta testers for pending new firmware loads.

Why? Their feedback could help expedite the rollout process and would provide great input back Rotel. A significant number of software/hardware companies have user community beta testers, i.e., most notably PC OS manufacturers, but obviously a PC OS is much more complicated than a pre/pro firmware update. Nonetheless, I think that there could be some value to this.

Rotel lending a responsive ear and strong user community involvement could become a significant marketing strength to Rotel, rather than just a product manufacturer with sales based solely on product features/performance. Tag McLaren has this type of reputation. Service does matter to most people.

Andrew, any thoughts on this?

-Kevin

[Andrew Pratt]

Kevin Rotel has already used some of us a beta testers for firmware releases for the 1055/1066 model so I'd say there's a pretty good chance it'll happen again.

[Azeke]

Kevin,

Andrew is exactly right, Rotel in the past has been very good about selecting beta testers for their firmware upgrades. I guess I'm just a
bit impetuous . My apologies for the misinterpretation.

Regards,

Azeke

[Michele Spinolo]

Michele,

Re your request to assign 3 simultaneous digital inputs to the one device on the RSP-1098. Some comments:

• I've read the product sheets for the Cirrus DSP processor used and can't see how it can take more than one digital signal simultaneously
• I'm also not quite sure of the benefits for normal processing - since DVDs and CDs are output in digital. I can see the benefit for SACD and DVD-A - but the licening manufactures are VERY particularly about this wanting the digital signal to be transmitted in an encrypted fashion and have refused to certify or licence any manufacture that tried not to.
• There is a new standard (HDMI) that is designed to deal with this which is just now starting to become available on some products. A number of members have requested this be added and (being THE new standard for this) it makes sense.
• The board you mention makes a play on its web site of "is it legal" etc and is designed as a DVD player mod for one or two DVD players. As far as I can see from a quick web search - they are the only one making this (i.e. it is proprietary technology).

So - unless I've misunderstood something (in which case please let me know) or I get a couple of other Club Rotel members also wanting to include this - my preference is not to add it to the wish list as (based on the information I have) it is something that I can't really defend asking Rotel to add.

Geoff Costello

Geoff,

the signal through the 3 s/pdif is a stereo PCM one, so no problem to threat it.
The goal of this request would be to have the chance to use this system:

DVD/SACD player->3 s/pdif ->3 behringer ultracurve pro DEQ2496 which treat digitally the signal for room equalization -> 3 s/pdif out->Rotel 1098 for DAC conversion

the signal on the s/pdif connection is always stereo PCM

Some high-end pre/pro like meridian has the chance to do what i'd like rotel to.




Bye
Michele

[Aussie Geoff]

Kevin,

Are there any recent new updates from Rotel insiders on the wish list firmware update for the 1098? Surely a decision by now has been made to go or no-go it.

Re your query - The short answer is "No". I understand that it will take some time due to a combination of:

• Their technical people being busy on the 3 new products they have launched (RSP-1068 etc). This includes getting some features like DLP IIx working to Rotel's satisfaction.
• The need to make some informed choices by Rotel re features, time cost to develop, market demand etc.

I do know the list is under serious consideration and would be very very surprised not to get some of the features over the next 6 months or so.

Geoff Costello

[Andrew Pratt]

I agree we should see something nice from Rotel before the end of summer...possibly sooner