Denon vs. Yamaha.....

[volfandan]

Ok, I have my heart set on a Denon 3805....and then my brother-in-law starts in about how his best friend (who owns a HT sales/install business) talked him into the Yamaha RXV1500. He said that his friend told him that the Yamaha is SOOOO much more of a receiver than the Denon....and there is really no contest between the two in comparison...the Yamaha would win hands down. THEN THERE'S THE WHOLE THX thing....of course the Yamaha has it, but the 3805 doesn't. I've been told that Yamaha does more research in theater sound than pretty much any other company. Conversely, I've also heard that Yamaha's are notoriously bright, and that while for movies that may be acceptable, the Denon will offer MUCH better instumental reproduction (such as listening to CD's on the system). PLEASE HELP.... I HAVE TO BE ONE UP ON MY BROTHER-IN-LAW!!! :B

[volfandan]

or....would I be better off getting the Pioneer Elite VSX-52TX which is 110 wpc and says the ALL IMPORTANT THX on the front panel?

[aud19]

They're all good units :T So go listen to them all and decide for yourself as you're the one who has to pay for and live with whichever unit

[PewterTA]

Yes, Yamaha is bright, so it can cause listening fatigue. Denon does not reproduce a stereo (2ch) sound well at all...Yamaha would be better in that case. Denon does a better job for surround that Yamaha.

You really need to go and listen to the two if you can on the same set of speakers and make your mind up from there....

I went from the Yamaha rx-V1400 and absolutely loved Yamaha... I went to Rotel and realized the "next" level of sound I could get and it really puts Yamaha to shame.

But that's not saying Yamaha sound is terrible, it's not, nor is denon's....

You just have to really go out and see what kind of sound you are into.

Remember, people think BOSE sounds good...

[aud19]

Well let's say Yamaha's less expensive receivers are on the brighter side. However mated with the right speakers can sound quite nice, just avoid brighter speakers like Klipsch etc Then again I find most inexpensive (under$800) receivers kind of bright and "tinny" to some degree. Their mid and high-end receivers are fairly nice IMO but for the money your better off going with the likes of Rotel, Sherwood Newcastle etc for sound quality.

[gd]

Rotel, Sherwood Newcastle etc for sound quality.

Add Marantz, Arcam and Pioneer to that list.

You'll be 'one up' on your B-I-L if you simply avoid the Yamaha.

THX capability adds relatively little for the extra expense... unless you've got a complex setup in a difficult room with THX-certified speakers... and even then, the difference may not be discernible.

[aud19]

I wouldn't say avoid the Yamaha, they make a good product and HE may actually prefer their sound Again, it comes back to the fact that YOU really need to go listen to your options and decide what YOU prefer the sound of. As you can see everyone has a different idea of what "the best" is, there is no cut and dry answer here.

[ekkoville]

I would look at an NAD piece also, they seem to be a value company as well as Rotel and I here good things from a dealer about them.

[aud19]

Almost forgot Outlaw too

[P-Dub]

Well his best friend sold him a nice receiver. You on the other hand will have drawn on the collective wisdom of one of the best HT sites on the interent to make your own decision.

The receiver is just one part of the whole HT. If you have a great receiver matched with some bad speakers, it will sound terrible.

As for Yamaha's being bright, I think that was with the older x95 models. I have one of those and with my Energy speakers they are very detailed! Some may say bright, others may say harsh, I say detailed.

I am personally looking at the Pioneer Elite 72txv. I think if you're looking at the Denon that this should be in the same price range. Plus it has the THX label.

Personally THX label is more marketing than anything.

[volfandan]

I totally agree with speakers being paramount for a great system. I wanted a pair of Snell E3's for years...and have come really close to picking up a pair on Ebay numerous times. However, though while sitting down with a nice single-malt and listening to an album from start finish, Snell or Paradigm teamed up with an Adcom 555 or old Macintosh seem to be the way to go(IMHO). BUT, for explosions on the big screen and loud rock-n-roll make me think that Klipsch RF-35 towers, center, and dipoles seem to be the set-up I'll probably get

[june]

Yamaha RXV-2500!

Hello,

Check out the Yamaha RXV-2500! The price is around $800.00 in the Philly area.


June

[David Meek]

Dan,

Contrary to extremist opinions you'll inevitably hear, both Yamaha and Denon are good choices to pursue quality-wise. Yamaha's do tend to be a bit more detailed or forward, while Denons are somewhat warmer or laid back in their presentation. When you mate receivers to differing speakers, you'll hear differing sounds. You can affect these tendencies by choosing speakers that either enhance them or mellow them. Also, as you move up the quality chain the sound changes from model to model inside the brands' own lines. Flagship models tend to have more capable (more expensive, too) amplification stages than their siblings and it shows (sounds ) in the quality of what you hear. IMO, Yamaha DOES have the best DSP choices available although I rarely use the ones on my RX-V1, choosing instead to listen to music in 2-channel "bypass" mode which modifies the audio signal as little as possible. The theater modes are another story - they can seriously enhance your movie listening at times.

As pointed out above, the speakers you pair with a receiver can enhance their sonic tendencies or reduce them. One example is using Klipsch (horn) speakers with a lower- or mid-range Yamaha. This pairs a bright, forward sounding speaker with generally a forward, detailed receiver and thus put the combo well out on the bright edge of the spectrum. Not many people favor a set-up like this although one of our members has just this combination and likes it. Putting a lower- or mid-range Denon with a speaker like a smaller Vienna Acoustic will take the sonic combination to the other edge. You probably are not wanting to hear this, but for the most pleasing and longest lasting results the best thing you can do is go out and listen to the various available pairings, find out where your comfort zone falls and only then start counting cash.

When you do go to listen, take a half-dozen CDs you know intimately as your demo music. Listen to the same songs on the various combinations of components and speakers. That will help you discover in more detail what sounds the most pleasing tonally, soundstage-wise and imaging-wise.

THX is a badge indicating that the component wearing it meets certain standards. IMO it used to be more influential in the earlier days of home theater, but over time it has been watered down and turned into a marketing tool more than anything.

For what it's worth, good friends of ours have a flagship Denon and I've listened to it extensively and while it is a fine, fine unit I like my Yammie better - but not by much. I know I haven't answered your questions directly, but these things are SO VERY dependent on all those fuzzy things we talk about - personal preferences, budgets, room acoustics, etc. - that hard and fast recommendations really won't work as well as you investing a bit of time in research. Best of luck to you! :T

I hope this wasn't too long-winded. :blah:

[Snap]

Jason, David good post ya'll! :T

I have used them both. (Yamaha and Denon) Great units both of them. Matter of money, and personal pref. Do like people say and listen and pick for yourself. One man's trash is anothers art. The only way you are going to win the "I must have better than so-in-so" is if you through more money than he did at it. I can take my RX-V657 out of the master bedroom, and hook it up to my Phase Tech towers, and unless he has a set of speakers that are close to my Phase Tech's that little Receiver/Speaker combo will SMOKE his 1500!

In short...screw 1 upping your bro. Get a nice receiver, awesome speakers and let your system do the talking! (Some one else already mentioned the 2500 that are on close out right now. Might not be a bad idea.)

[comeup]

I now own a Yamaha HTR 5590 in my bedroom with Polk Audio sat speakers that sound pretty good, I had a Denon 2805 that I gave away to someone for a favor. I had a hard time deciding which one I wanted to keep and ended up keeping the Yamaha because of the DSP modes. Too me they sound very similar other than the dsp modes. I personally give Yamaha the edge.

[peterS]

yamaha's are more user friendly in my opinion
denon's have more snob appeal

[Clive]

Well that maybe your opinion well noted. However for the readers and owners of Denon units who are not "Snobs" may read your professional opinion a little differently. This is a public forum so lets stick with the details shall we?


Thank you.

[David Meek]

That's a "professional" opinion? Hmmmm.

[peterS]

Well that maybe your opinion well noted. However for the readers and owners of Denon units who are not "Snobs" may read your professional opinion a little differently. This is a public forum so lets stick with the details shall we?


Thank you.

where did i say people who own denons are snobs
why does snob appeal take on a negative conotation with you
maybe "name recognition" is more pc, sorry to offend :W

ie:
most people will opt for a sony vs a toshiba lcd despite the 10% price difference... why name recognition
is sony that much better?... depends who you ask

stating the yamaha's are "bright" is pretty arbitrary especialy when no evidence follows, ive never heard brightness to be atributed to an amp before, only tweets w/ stored energy... is it possible, sure, probable , nah especialy not in the price class we are refering too. now this may have some validity if the yamahas' have a different input impedence then the denons... never bothered to check

anyways my opinion is that the yamaha's are just plain easier to use but when they cost the same for the same features i went with the denon. why? the name recognition was the deal breaker... :
personaly i dont think anyone on this forum could differentiate the two blind folded

fyi our installer's vote goes to yamaha

sorry but i just do not believe that amplification has as noticable a "sound" as others may, believing that at a point it becomes hard to seperated perception from preconception.... if you feel otherwise there is a guy that will give you 10K if you can prove it

[Clive]

That's okay. :T
In "The Starting Block" I'd like to keep the sentiments plain and simple to help those who are just starting and not leave any doors open to begin something ugly. I'd like the members on this "Block" to feel safe. There is no reason to start a competition.

Thanks again!

PeterS I am sending you a PM

[George Bellefontaine]

For what it's worth, I actually moved a Yamaha DSP A3090 ( top of the line at the time) from my home theater up to my music room. I use a Denon 3801 in the theater as it seemed better suited for movie soundtracks. Movie tracks can be bright and Denon seems to have tamed them, for me anyway. But heck, it's all a matter of personal choice, isn't it. We all hear things differently because of so many variables, most importantly the room itself.

[jfc]

Yamaha and Klipsh speakers

Please explain the term bright. I have a Yamaha HTR550 and Klipsh towers and mid speaker in front and have never heard what I would call a "bright" sound.

[David Meek]

Hi jfc, welcome to The Guide. :welcome:

Generally, bright denotes a sound that has more emphasis on the upper-mid-range and treble, whereas warm denotes a sound that de-emphasises them or promotes mids and low-mid frequencies.

[Hdale85]

I have a Yamaha RX-V2400 and RF-62's and they don't sound bright to me. I very much like the sound. It's all about personal preference you can't jump on here and expect a straight forward answer you just have to go out and see what you like? Get the receiver from some place with a decent return policy and try them both out or somewhere that will let you do an in home trial.

[Nick M]

I have owned a few of Denon's popular universal optical players (CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/etc...). I did develop a problem with one of the units and tried contacting Denon. They didn't return a single eMail or phone call (I left in excess of 30 messages). For that reason I refuse to purchase another Denon product ever again.

Yamaha is the company I currently recommend to friends/family looking for an entry-level HT. Personally, I find almost all receivers to sound a bit "thin", but stepping up to a dedicated amplifier that has reserves for those dynamic scenes costs a few more bucks.

My advice to people is to start slow if you don't have the cash. Get a receiver and a pair of bookshelves that really blow you away. Next, add a sub (or two) followed by your surrounds (allowing you to run 4.1 with a phantom center), and finally your center channel. From there you can go 6.1/7.1 (if you have the room/desire) or getting separates (or even just a separate amp with gusto using the receiver as the pre/pro).

Just my $0.02. :T

[Hdale85]

Thats what I plan to do. I got my 3 fronts and the receiver and I'm working on getting surrounds right now and then I'll build a sub. After that its probably going to be a Rotel dedicated amp or something of the sorts and then eventually I'll upgrade the receiver to a pre/pro or another receiver with HDMI 1.3 and all that.

[Eric_C]

Since it has been brought up.

What is the next step up from a Yamaha? I have a RX-V2600. I looked at both Denon and Yamaha. I went with Yamaha because they tend to be more music oriented.

When I upgrade I'll be running monoblock amps to the fronts. For the short term until I get new surrounds and center I'll run those off of the amp in the AVR but I have been thinking of upgrading.

I need 2 things. 1 is HDMI switching along with upconverting over all inputs, and second is 1080p passthrough support. Multichannel PCM too but I'll assume all the units +1K will do that, oh and multichannel inputs too so I guess that makes 4 things.

Since I will not be using the internal amp what am I gaining by going to a Rotel or higher brand?

I'd like one that does digital bass management the right way but I think they all lack in that area.

[sy0296]

over the years i started with a yamaha, then went to a denon, back to a yamaha, a marantz, and now finally to seperates. i still have the 2nd yamaha and the marantz (rx-vsomething and sr-19 respectively). given similar specifications, i wouldn't say if one is better than another. the yamaha is about 6 years old and the marantz about 4.5--yes they are dinosaurs, but are both still holding up very well. the denon died on me twice so i finally gave up on it. that being said, denon customer service was wonderful and my friend's unit which was purchased at around the same time is still running strong.

when it comes down to it, the brand you choose will be based on your own preference, be it sound, price, features, value, name recognition, etc. i may be digging myself a huge hole-o-flames, but imho before getting into seperates, similarly spec'ed, there is not a huge difference in sounds between the three brands i mentioned.

[sy0296]

Since it has been brought up.

What is the next step up from a Yamaha? I have a RX-V2600. I looked at both Denon and Yamaha. I went with Yamaha because they tend to be more music oriented.

When I upgrade I'll be running monoblock amps to the fronts. For the short term until I get new surrounds and center I'll run those off of the amp in the AVR but I have been thinking of upgrading.

I need 2 things. 1 is HDMI switching along with upconverting over all inputs, and second is 1080p passthrough support. Multichannel PCM too but I'll assume all the units +1K will do that, oh and multichannel inputs too so I guess that makes 4 things.

Since I will not be using the internal amp what am I gaining by going to a Rotel or higher brand?

I'd like one that does digital bass management the right way but I think they all lack in that area.

Eric--if u are doing to be running monoblocks in the front, why not just wait until you can get a decent 5 channel amp + processor for your center and surrounds instead of buying another integrated. you'll find, like i did, that when you start getting into seperates, you're stepping into a whole new playing field.

i'm eyeing the new lexicon mc-12hd which also fits your bill but it's $$$$. i think as far as pre/pro's are concerned, many of the manufacturers are waiting for the new stuff--stuff you mentioned which i want as well--to get more standardized and stablized before dumping large chunks of $$$$ into r&d'ing new units.

[Eric_C]

I haven't found a processor alone that did what I wanted...can you suggest some?

This is all deppenent on how the Gainclone amp sounds. From what I hear it should be superior to any integrated amp.

[s57]

Dear sy0296,

I notice you are using B&W speakers and Yamaha AMPs. I want to buy a Yamaha RXV-2700 and the B&W 804s and HTM3 centre speakers plus a Velodyne CHT-10 and a pair of small surround spearkers. However, I also like to listen to pure CD music, can you suggest any band of a separate Int AMP which match my combination. How can I connect the front speakers to the two amps.