Rotel RDV-1092...

[Clepto]

You are right. The 1070 really isnt a great solution as an external video processor. Not sure the price point yet, but if you truelly want the benefits of an external video scaler you are better off getting one that allows you to customize the out other wise you are still relying on the internal processor of the plasma.

Also, keep in mind that the 1070 has no HDMI Audio support either.

[htsteve]

RDV-1092 Information

The RDV-1092 is now out on Rotel Website. Link is below. Price is $1499. I asked rotel about the scaler. They said it should be out in a month or two. Price around $2000.

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rdv1092.htm

[Nolan B]

wow you really cant get much from the site on this...i.e. what DACs does it use? What scaler and de-interlacer is being used? These specs should be listed when with an asking price this high.

I want to read things like Silicon Optix's "Realta", and Burr Brown PCM 1732 D/A converter...Or how about upgradable to Blue Ray and HD DVD by a simple software download!!! lol :rofl:

[Vicente]

Any news about when the rdv-1092 will be commercialized in Europe, and the price we should pay?

At the exange rate dollar/euro (1,20), we should'nt pay more than 1200 Euros but I bet it will be much more of that.

[VictorHRS]

wow you really cant get much from the site on this...i.e. what DACs does it use? What scaler and de-interlacer is being used?

Does anyone have an answer to this yet?


Thanks :T

[mattburk]

I thought they were going to do sacd on this one? Guess not, do they have a higher end dvd player coming out?

[calmac]

wow you really cant get much from the site on this...i.e. what DACs does it use? What scaler and de-interlacer is being used? These specs should be listed when with an asking price this high.

I want to read things like Silicon Optix's "Realta", and Burr Brown PCM 1732 D/A converter...Or how about upgradable to Blue Ray and HD DVD by a simple software download!!! lol :rofl:

Does it really matter 'what's in the box' as long as the end result is a perfomance standard setter.
I have spent nearly 20 yrs in high quality retail and let me tell you that whilst being polite, most sales folk inwardly role their eyes when a client asks "what dac does xyz use".If experience shows anything then it is the implementation rather than the use of particular "Buzz word " components that sets the quality.
The web page for the RDV1092 differs very little from any of the other w.p 's. for Rotel products :it is basic, with the underlying suggestion that you go to a good dealership and get an informative demo.IMO Rotel's whole philosphy is based on low bullshit & high value.
In saying all that I tend to think this particular product is a bit in the too little too late catogery to meet the rquirements of all but a very small number of clients requirements.Who is going to spend this sort of money with the new formats just round the corner???????????
Gordon

[Nolan B]

Does it really matter 'what's in the box' as long as the end result is a perfomance standard setter.
I have spent nearly 20 yrs in high quality retail and let me tell you that whilst being polite, most sales folk inwardly role their eyes when a client asks "what dac does xyz use".If experience shows anything then it is the implementation rather than the use of particular "Buzz word " components that sets the quality.
The web page for the RDV1092 differs very little from any of the other w.p 's. for Rotel products :it is basic, with the underlying suggestion that you go to a good dealership and get an informative demo.IMO Rotel's whole philosphy is based on low bullshit & high value.
In saying all that I tend to think this particular product is a bit in the too little too late catogery to meet the rquirements of all but a very small number of clients requirements.Who is going to spend this sort of money with the new formats just round the corner???????????
Gordon

I dissagree with you. The names mentioned in my last post were not "buzz words" rather names of the industries best. Sure end result is the end key, in order to beat or equal the performance of the brands i mentioned then they (rotel) would have something worth tolking about and mentioning. Trust me no "no name brand" scaler is better then DVDO.

If I am wrong then why didthe benchmarck DVD player arguable the worlds best consumer DVD player (the Denon 5910) choose to use some of the brands I mentioned for scaling, de-interlacing and digital to analog conversions?

On a side note. you are sorly mistaken if you think the goodbye of DVD and hello of any HD format is "just around the corner". While hardware may be available soon weekly software updates for an HD format like DVD is at least 2 years away. To someone elses point earlier...it took 9 years to get to where we are today with DVD over VHS.

[shadow]

Well if the new HD players are backward compatible, you would be crazy to buy an old tech player at $1500 that can't play new discs. I won't waste my money on one and I suspect the vast majority of potential purchasers feel the same.

[greve]

Well if the new HD players are backward compatible, you would be crazy to buy an old tech player at $1500 that can't play new discs. I won't waste my money on one and I suspect the vast majority of potential purchasers feel the same.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the "new standard" players will not upscale "old" DVD's so they will still output 480i from these new players (OK, it can be labeled "backwards compatible", but it won't be good), hence it does make a lot of sense to get a good player for the "old" discs. And then there's the question of whether the "new standard" will take off at all...

[shadow]

As with all Rotels, still won't play SACD, so its no option for me on that ground too. Rather go with a Denon or possibly a Pioneer Elite if Blu Ray/DVD HD does not pan out.

[calmac]

I dissagree with you. The names mentioned in my last post were not "buzz words" rather names of the industries best. Sure end result is the end key, in order to beat or equal the performance of the brands i mentioned then they (rotel) would have something worth tolking about and mentioning. Trust me no "no name brand" scaler is better then DVDO.

If I am wrong then why didthe benchmarck DVD player arguable the worlds best consumer DVD player (the Denon 5910) choose to use some of the brands I mentioned for scaling, de-interlacing and digital to analog conversions?

On a side note. you are sorly mistaken if you think the goodbye of DVD and hello of any HD format is "just around the corner". While hardware may be available soon weekly software updates for an HD format like DVD is at least 2 years away. To someone elses point earlier...it took 9 years to get to where we are today with DVD over VHS.

Hi ,
The point I was trying to get across is that simply because many well regarded players us particular chip types doen't mean to say that every machine using those chips is going to have stellar performance.At the end of the day your eyes & ears should be the final arbiters of quality .Rotel don't always use bleeding edge chipsets but I think we can all agree most of the time they acheive outstanding results particularly for the price.Getting all worked up over a particular dac or scaler or whatever is a bit short sighted imo.
However long the hd sources take to properley arrive imo the 1092 is too little, too late & tooooo much $$$ however I am fairly certain it will be a great machine.
Gordon
Gordon

[VictorHRS]

Hi ,
The point I was trying to get across is that simply because many well regarded players us particular chip types doen't mean to say that every machine using those chips is going to have stellar performance.At the end of the day your eyes & ears should be the final arbiters of quality .Rotel don't always use bleeding edge chipsets but I think we can all agree most of the time they acheive outstanding results particularly for the price.Getting all worked up over a particular dac or scaler or whatever is a bit short sighted imo.
However long the hd sources take to properley arrive imo the 1092 is too little, too late & tooooo much $$$ however I am fairly certain it will be a great machine.
Gordon
Gordon

I understand what you are trying to say. That is, throw away all the previous knowledge, burn your books, the things you know that will probably make a good product, and just follow your instincts.... :lol:

Obviously, things don't work that way. Think about of when you buy a car. Don't you want to know what's in it? What's the engine? What's its performance numbers? The same for me for a dvd... The final judge will be my eyes and ears, but complete specification does give a very good clue on how a car or dvd player for this matter will feel like. Look at the top dvd players and you'll see they use similar parts, specially for deinterlacing and upscalling.

As for spending so much money on a good dvd player in this time of the new formats just around the corner, people forget that they already have large dvd collections, and that the new "backward compatible" hd-dvd or blu-ray players won't be very good dvd players, as is the case with most of the universal players for other formats. And we dvd for almost 10 years, and just now we have a player (Denon's 5910) that reaches the limits of the format. I think a high end dvd player, either Rotel's, Marantz's, Denon's, whatever, have a good selling point and I would buy one if my budget allowed.

Just my two cents.

As for my previous question, has anyone found out what DACs, deinterlacer and upscaler this Rotel player uses?

Thanx! :T

[mattburk]

As with all Rotels, still won't play SACD, so its no option for me on that ground too. Rather go with a Denon or possibly a Pioneer Elite if Blu Ray/DVD HD does not pan out.

Me too, I will probably go marantz or the new arcam coming out, if the pictures good.
I would prefer rotel, but I have a lot of sacd's.

[sirbogey]

You do future proof yourself a bit with a good external video processor. I would put my RDV 1060 and DVDO iScan HD against any dvd player with HDMI..including the new one from rotel. .

DVDO iScan HD?! Can you enlighten me? never heard of...

[Nolan B]

DVDO iScan HD?! Can you enlighten me? never heard of...

Sure, ill do my best. There are a few key things attributed to obtaining good video quality. The issue with high quality displays (especially Larger ones and in this case ill use plasma as a example) to use an analogy is that they almost act as magnifying glasses. Many plasma's picture quality potential is so good that that if you send a poor video source (i.e. SQ cable) the imperfections are magnified and very noticable, and on the flip side if you send a high quality picture source the result can be stunning. All most all of that has to do with the video processessing.

Assume for a minute you own a 42" HD Plasma which has a resolution of 1024x768p. Since ALL current DVD's are 480i (interlaced) the trick is to take those 480 lines of interlaced video upconvert it and de-interlace it to make it exactly fit 1024x768p (pregressive). Theoretically none of us who own plasmas need to own a pregressive scan or upconverting DVD player. The reason is the processor in all plasmas already de-interlaces and scalers the incoming picture, so either your DVD player does it or the display does it.

In my personal opinion ALL upconveting DVD players are useless unlss you know the that your display has a native resolution of 720p or 1080i and know that the scaler and de-interlacer in the DVD player is better then the one in your plasma. If its not then you might as well let the plasma do the work and just own a non pregressive scan dvd player, and turn the progressive feature off. If you send a 1080i signal upconverted from a DVD player the scaler in the plasma still converts that signal down to 1024x786p.

So why is the RDV 1092 a good upconcerting DVD player? the answer is as far as video goes it isnt unless you know the dei-interlacing and scaling in the RDV 1092 is better then the scaling and de-interlacing of the plasma and your plasma has a native resolution of the output signal of the DVD player i.e. 1080 720p.

WHAT IS A DVDO?

A DVDO is a video processor (very good one) which does all the work mentioned above that make a picture look good. You plug all of your video components into it and have one output come out of it which goes to your display.

i.e. DVD payer sends 480i (not progressive)--->DVDO which de-interlaces and scales/upconverts it to exactly fit your screen size. In the example of the 42 " plasma a video signal which is 1024x768 is sent out of the DVDO.

There are a couple of other important details but dont need to be added to the above example/explanation. If someone who reads this decides to buy an external processor let me know as there are a few other things to consider before doing so.

[Clepto]

My biggest concern for upcoming pre/pro's isn't video switching or scaling and HDMI input as it is decoding of HD-DD or HD-DTS. Does anyone have any input on whether or not the next version of the 1068 and/or 1098 will include decoding for those types of audio?

Note that for some audio, you MUST use the player's audio decoding, especially for the PIP streams, etc that are part of the new interactivity features of the enw formats.

The paradigm is shifting to player decoding, so a focus on a pro that can handle BM, etc on both Analog Inputs as well as decoded PCM over HDMI might actually be more important. However, for purely watching the movie, the pro processing will likely remain a strong factor.

[calmac]

I understand what you are trying to say. That is, throw away all the previous knowledge, burn your books, the things you know that will probably make a good product, and just follow your instincts.... :lol:

Obviously, things don't work that way. Think about of when you buy a car. Don't you want to know what's in it? What's the engine? What's its performance numbers? The same for me for a dvd... The final judge will be my eyes and ears, but complete specification does give a very good clue on how a car or dvd player for this matter will feel like. Look at the top dvd players and you'll see they use similar parts, specially for deinterlacing and upscalling.

As for spending so much money on a good dvd player in this time of the new formats just around the corner, people forget that they already have large dvd collections, and that the new "backward compatible" hd-dvd or blu-ray players won't be very good dvd players, as is the case with most of the universal players for other formats. And we dvd for almost 10 years, and just now we have a player (Denon's 5910) that reaches the limits of the format. I think a high end dvd player, either Rotel's, Marantz's, Denon's, whatever, have a good selling point and I would buy one if my budget allowed.

Just my two cents.

As for my previous question, has anyone found out what DACs, deinterlacer and upscaler this Rotel player uses?

Thanx! :T

No I am just trying to say that the tech side is important to the engineers who are designing the product ,for the end user it is no more than an 'interesting' talking point.From my now somewhat dated experience in quality retail customers who were worried about what dacs etc a particular machine used would then have a great deal of trouble listening past their preconcieved notions.
Gordon

[sirbogey]

Thanks Vancouver! That's a very thorough explanation. I'll have to revisit my video setup in more detail since my projector is couple of years old.

[Marlboroman]

Just for those that want to know. I called Rotel and they say that the RDV-1092 uses National Semiconductor AVC2510 Scaler LSI. This is the same scaler that Classe uses as well. I did not ask about the DACs though, sorry.

[calmac]

Just for those that want to know. I called Rotel and they say that the RDV-1092 uses National Semiconductor AVC2510 Scaler LSI. This is the same scaler that Classe uses as well. I did not ask about the DACs though, sorry.

Can I ask why you bothered,would it not have been easier to go and have a demo.I realise the machine is probably not on 'general release' just yet but does it really matter what's inside as long as it performs well.Great chip sets are important but if my experience is anything to go by it is the implimentation of devices that sets the end result.
I realise I am probably labouring my point on what is after all a forum for discussion however as an enthusiast myself and after years in quality retail I have come to believe that what's in the box is best left to the engineers and the end user performance and facilities are far more important and really the only important thing?
Gordon

[Nolan B]

Can I ask why you bothered,would it not have been easier to go and have a demo.I realise the machine is probably not on 'general release' just yet but does it really matter what's inside as long as it performs well.Great chip sets are important but if my experience is anything to go by it is the implimentation of devices that sets the end result.
I realise I am probably labouring my point on what is after all a forum for discussion however as an enthusiast myself and after years in quality retail I have come to believe that what's in the box is best left to the engineers and the end user performance and facilities are far more important and really the only important thing?
Gordon

didnt you already state this exact point? Knowing the brand of scaling, de-interlacing and DACs can REALLY help you know what to expect. One of the purposes of these forums is to get info you DONT get while auditioning for yourself.

Yor first post asked "does it really matter whats in the box?" the answer is yes it does. Show me a DVD player where nothing notable "is in the box" which you feel is a good performer, and ill show you one with recognized names inside the box which blows it out of the park.....thats a serious challange.

Please post a model name and #.....

[VikingP]

Hi,

Regarding the components inside electronic gear, I have to agree with Calmac. One can use the best IC out there for a specific task, but if he is only a mediocre designer, the end product will never be as good as another product which uses an IC with smaller performance, or older technology, but which has been implemented by a very talented designer. Please, don't read into this that I think Rotel designers are mediocre, I don't.

Yes, knowing what ICs a product is made with can give you an idea whether or not the product uses new or more complex technology, and surely peace of mind for some, but that's about it. Most consumers mention some famed ICs without knowing at all what technically differentiates them from others in the same class.

That being said, an isolated IC or electronic component does not produce any sound or image by itself, so in order to judge of an item's quality, one can only rely on the results that the item produces, in this case its sound or picture.

Just my 0.02$.

Paul

[Nolan B]

Hi,

Regarding the components inside electronic gear, I have to agree with Calmac. One can use the best IC out there for a specific task, but if he is only a mediocre designer, the end product will never be as good as another product which uses an IC with smaller performance, or older technology, but which has been implemented by a very talented designer. Please, don't read into this that I think Rotel designers are mediocre, I don't.

Yes, knowing what ICs a product is made with can give you an idea whether or not the product uses new or more complex technology, and surely peace of mind for some, but that's about it. Most consumers mention some famed ICs without knowing at all what technically differentiates them from others in the same class.

That being said, an isolated IC or electronic component does not produce any sound or image by itself, so in order to judge of an item's quality, one can only rely on the results that the item produces, in this case its sound or picture.

Just my 0.02$.

Paul

again...lets test this out. Post any component you like which has not notible component to it which you think is a high performer. Im curious and would like to see if i am mistaken.

[Nolan B]

Here is an example of a DVD player which had notible compenents and theorfore give you a very good diea as to how it will perform, and why the price point was so high. At a certian price point certian notabitle components should be noted. I am not talking about the low end or mid level. The reason I brought this piont up is that high end expensive brands like the one below and others like Naim Audio, Music Fedility, top of the line Marantz etc ALL have notible components and if the new rotel has priced itself in the same league as a consumer i would like to read why. I will eat crow if the new Rotel gets any of the awards the models i mentioned did.

Below is what im talking about.


Denon 5910 DVD player:

1. Silicon Optix's "Realta" chip with Hollywood Quality Video (HQV) technology:

“We’ve tested hundreds of DVD players, and Denon’s 5910 delivers the highest-quality image that we’ve ever seen. The addition of the Silicon Optix Realta HQV chip is a breakthrough feature of this player”
“Denon’s 5910 transforms DVDs to near-HD quality and is a perfect companion to anyone who has an HD display and wants to get the most from the thousands of DVD’s that are available today” - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelit

2. 10-bit Precision Video Scaling™. DVDO (award winning)

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/news/denon.html

[calmac]

Here is an example of a DVD player which had notible compenents and theorfore give you a very good diea as to how it will perform, and why the price point was so high. At a certian price point certian notabitle components should be noted. I am not talking about the low end or mid level. The reason I brought this piont up is that high end expensive brands like the one below and others like Naim Audio, Music Fedility, top of the line Marantz etc ALL have notible components and if the new rotel has priced itself in the same league as a consumer i would like to read why. I will eat crow if the new Rotel gets any of the awards the models i mentioned did.

Below is what im talking about.


Denon 5910 DVD player:

1. Silicon Optix's "Realta" chip with Hollywood Quality Video (HQV) technology:

“We’ve tested hundreds of DVD players, and Denon’s 5910 delivers the highest-quality image that we’ve ever seen. The addition of the Silicon Optix Realta HQV chip is a breakthrough feature of this player”
“Denon’s 5910 transforms DVDs to near-HD quality and is a perfect companion to anyone who has an HD display and wants to get the most from the thousands of DVD’s that are available today” - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelit

2. 10-bit Precision Video Scaling™. DVDO (award winning)

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/news/denon.html

I just don't think we are going to agree on this point you are confusing propaganda from maufacturers and worthless hi-fi mag awards with the real requirements in engineering top flight equipment,.You can bet your last dollar that if Rotel have seen fit to produce a top flight dvd player then they will have done their best to ensure that it performs at the correct level.They may have used some of the components found in the 5910 they may not but at the end of the day I prefer to use my ears & eyes and do the required research to find out if the unit will do what I require rather than basing any performance assesment on what happens to be fashionable in chipsets at the time.
Things at Naim may have changed since I was last at the factory but if you look inside their amps they use very ordinary components from the RS catalouge however components are carefully tested & pair matched.It is Naim's attention to detail that makes their products what they are not buzz word components.

[TheTownHalo]

I am officially done with Rotel. $1800? ...and that's the only real option now for DVD playback? I'm going to start upgrading to Arcam. If I'm going to spend that much money, it's going to be on Arcam equipment.

In my opinion, the $1800 Arcam DVD player (the model escapes me) is a MUCH better sounding CD player than the 1072. Therefore, the Rotel DVD player would also need to sound better than the 1072, and I doubt it.

I think I'll be trading in the 1072 for the Arcam DVD player that costs $1000.....it's affordable, and gives me a great DVD AND CD player. I will keep the RX-1050 for now, though.

edit--->I see the list is actually $1499....well, that's a little better.....I'll have to go a/b it to the 1072 and $1000 arcam dvd player....

[gianni]

I am officially done with Rotel. $1800? ...and that's the only real option now for DVD playback? I'm going to start upgrading to Arcam. If I'm going to spend that much money, it's going to be on Arcam equipment.

In my opinion, the $1800 Arcam DVD player (the model escapes me) is a MUCH better sounding CD player than the 1072. Therefore, the Rotel DVD player would also need to sound better than the 1072, and I doubt it.

I think I'll be trading in the 1072 for the Arcam DVD player that costs $1000.....it's affordable, and gives me a great DVD AND CD player. I will keep the RX-1050 for now, though.

edit--->I see the list is actually $1499....well, that's a little better.....I'll have to go a/b it to the 1072 and $1000 arcam dvd player....

Before you are too sure, have a listen. I did not find the Arcam DVD player to be as good as the Arcam CD73. I found the CD73 to be very comparable to the 1072 - just a slightly different flavor. Both were extensively demoed at home with the ability to easily a/b. I also spent a couple of hours doing a/b between the Arcam CD and DVD players at a dealer showroom on a rather nice Krell system.

[gianni]

I am officially done with Rotel. $1800? ...and that's the only real option now for DVD playback? I'm going to start upgrading to Arcam. If I'm going to spend that much money, it's going to be on Arcam equipment.

In my opinion, the $1800 Arcam DVD player (the model escapes me) is a MUCH better sounding CD player than the 1072. Therefore, the Rotel DVD player would also need to sound better than the 1072, and I doubt it.

I think I'll be trading in the 1072 for the Arcam DVD player that costs $1000.....it's affordable, and gives me a great DVD AND CD player. I will keep the RX-1050 for now, though.

edit--->I see the list is actually $1499....well, that's a little better.....I'll have to go a/b it to the 1072 and $1000 arcam dvd player....

Before you are too sure, have a listen. I did not find the Arcam DVD (dv78) player to be as good as the Arcam CD73. I found the CD73 to be very comparable to the 1072 - just a slightly different flavor. Both were extensively demoed at home with the ability to easily a/b. I also spent a couple of hours doing a/b between the Arcam CD and DVD (dv78&dv79) players at a dealer showroom on a rather nice Krell system.

[TheTownHalo]

Before you are too sure, have a listen. I did not find the Arcam DVD player to be as good as the Arcam CD73. I found the CD73 to be very comparable to the 1072 - just a slightly different flavor. Both were extensively demoed at home with the ability to easily a/b. I also spent a couple of hours doing a/b between the Arcam CD and DVD players at a dealer showroom on a rather nice Krell system.

Interesting. Well I will be doing a lot of auditioning before I buy a DVD player. I was listening to my 1072 last night, reminding me once again how amazing that player is! The Arcam and Rotel DVD players are going to have to really blow me away to top the 1072.

If the new Rotel DVD player does sound as good as the 1072, than it's worth the price, because you'd be getting a great CD and DVD player......can't wait to audition.....

[gianni]

Interesting. Well I will be doing a lot of auditioning before I buy a DVD player. I was listening to my 1072 last night, reminding me once again how amazing that player is! The Arcam and Rotel DVD players are going to have to really blow me away to top the 1072.

If the new Rotel DVD player does sound as good as the 1072, than it's worth the price, because you'd be getting a great CD and DVD player......can't wait to audition.....

Yes, it will be interesting. And, I agree with you - $1500 is getting expensive for a Rotel DVD player. It better be real good.

It seems as though Rotel is trying to raise the price points of all their products. I really do not understand the pricing on the new class D amps. They are supposed to be less expensive to build than traditional amps but the pricing does not reflect this. The rmb 1077 is 2.5 times the cost of the rmb 1075. Granted, it has 2 more channels but if the technology is supposed to be less expensive, even given the 2 extra channels, it makes me wonder why the large price disparity.

One could argue that the 1077 is comparable to the rmb 1095 in performance.
Would that mean that they are pricing based on performance now? What happened to the 'Balanced Design' concept and good bang for the buck?
If it is cheaper to build, it should not be priced at more than twice the original.