Rotel RDV-1092...

[gianni]

$1800? Ouch! It better be real good.

[lmib]

Hi Gianni,

were do you know this from?
Any webpage to go?
Please send an url.

Ciaó lmib

[Pez]

I found this think - its towards the bottom of the page.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/news/090905cedia02/

[aud19]

But it has HDMI! :lol:

[gianni]

Pez found it.

[gd]

For that price, it should include SACD, and make popcorn.

[jim777]

If it sounds as good on CDs as the RCD-1072 it's worth it. If not, it's for semi-audiophile HT-oriented mid-budg i-don't-know-who people

[lvhung]

1092-dvd
What market for this
Many Rteol Av amp use Pioneeer DVD player

[Andrew M Ward]

For that price, it should include SACD, and make popcorn.

Are there any other $2000 1080P DVD players on the market right now?

The Marantz 5900 says it's 1080P but it's not, when I pushed my questioning further than "is it 1080P" they gave in and admitted that the chip-set in it today is not capable of 1080 progressive output...

So, when the Rotel hits the streets it will be all alone in that price performance catergory...

Just an observation

[maddog]

Yeah, but do you really want to spend big $$$ on a DVD player now when HD DVD is scheduled for release in the middle of 2006? I'm sure upscaled 1080p of a standard-def DVD looks real good, but it's not HD. Judging on how upscaled 1080i DVD looks in comparison to HD 1080i from cable (e.g., HBO-HD), there probably is still no contest. Besides, doesn't a digital monitor have to support 1080p in order to display 1080p from a DVD player? Who's got that?

[w6000]

Yeah, but do you really want to spend big $$$ on a DVD player now when HD DVD is scheduled for release in the middle of 2006? I'm sure upscaled 1080p of a standard-def DVD looks real good, but it's not HD. Judging on how upscaled 1080i DVD looks in comparison to HD 1080i from cable (e.g., HBO-HD), there probably is still no contest. Besides, doesn't a digital monitor have to support 1080p in order to display 1080p from a DVD player? Who's got that?

A HD- DVD player will probably be in excess of $3000 when released. And yes you do need a TV that will do 1080P either way. This player is for people that want to up-scale their old dvd's to 1080p which the HD- DVD will not do.

[Andrew M Ward]

Yeah, but do you really want to spend big $$$ on a DVD player now when HD DVD is scheduled for release in the middle of 2006? I'm sure upscaled 1080p of a standard-def DVD looks real good, but it's not HD. Judging on how upscaled 1080i DVD looks in comparison to HD 1080i from cable (e.g., HBO-HD), there probably is still no contest. Besides, doesn't a digital monitor have to support 1080p in order to display 1080p from a DVD player? Who's got that?

A) HD-DVD players will not have scalers built into them, so your collection of legacy discs remain 480i

B) Have you looked at the companies supporting HD-DVD / enough said / clearly it's about collecting DVD logo royalties and nothing else. I don't anticipate any quality players from this bunch any-time-soon

C) regular DVD has about 5 good years left of media production, meaning I can get the movies I want for $12 to $19 for quite some time now

D) What's an HD-DVD movie cost? What's available first? Why should I even care if I already have a player that looks unreal and plays the existing media perfectly and has tons of available media for cheap...

And the audio! Don’t even get me started regarding up-sampling and so forth...



HD-DVD is this close (I'm making a pinching motion with my fingers) to being a format that's not even interesting for me... and it hasn't even come to market.

Just my 2 cents

[aud19]

Yeah I'm getting to be as pessimistic as Andrew there :lol:

HD-DVD/BluRay are just annoying me more and more everyday the more I hear about them. I'll not be participating in their format war thank you. Consider me a draft dodger on this one, thank goodness I'm already in Canada

[gd]

Are there any other $2000 1080P DVD players on the market right now?... Marantz 5900 says it's 1080P but it's not... when the Rotel hits the streets it will be all alone in that price performance catergory...

Yeah, I know... I was just expressing my music-first preferences... not that SACD or DVD-A seem to have much of a future.

There's relatively little 'V' in my AV system... if I ever do move up to a big-screen TV, I just figured I would add an outboard scaler to whatever music-first universal player I might have.

The only mild interest I'd have in HD-DVD or BluRay would be as a carrier for what would hopefully be some new kind of standardized hi-res music format.

I'm not holding my breath for any of it.

[lmib]

Hi all of you,

has anybody already seen a picture of the RDV 1092?
Or has anybody seen it live or made a picture himself?
I'm so curious how the RDV 1092 would look like?

Please post a webpage with a picture of it.

Ciaó lmib

[Andrew M Ward]

Yeah, I know... I was just expressing my music-first preferences... not that SACD or DVD-A seem to have much of a future.

There's relatively little 'V' in my AV system... if I ever do move up to a big-screen TV, I just figured I would add an outboard scaler to whatever music-first universal player I might have.

The only mild interest I'd have in HD-DVD or BluRay would be as a carrier for what would hopefully be some new kind of standardized hi-res music format.

I'm not holding my breath for any of it.

From one "A" in AV to another...
I'm certainly not an audio-phile, because I actually listen to music and collect it. It's always been about the music for me.

The only problem with really being into music is it's hard to find electronics companies that "get" that part.

Basically this whole forum is founded on that quest! The quest for high-end performance at working class prices.

The problem is the "economies of scale" catch up to audio-phile based companies rather quickly. The Classe' CDP-300 1080P DVD player as an industry first is too expensive for video-philes, they'll just wait for somebody to make one cheaper next year. So Classe' made it an Audio-phile grade performance piece, giving it a separate audio clock and board, something no one does on their DVD players, they simply use the 27 MHz video clock for everything (Yikes!) But long story short.... So a company makes something they plan to sell a thousand or so of... Well Toshiba sells a thousand DVD players an hour... Audio-philes are somewhat stuck picking up "the economies of reduced scales" at the retail floor level...

Just an observation
Did I mention I love this industry ;W

[RebelMan]

I'm certainly not an audio-phile, because I actually listen to music and collect it. It's always been about the music for me.

Someone that has an ardent interest in high-fidelity sound reproduction is an audiophile. Your involvment in the business and the types of equipment you use seems to fit this description. Ultimately it is about the music but not just the music. :W

[gianni]

So Classe' made it an Audio-phile grade performance piece, giving it a separate audio clock and board, something no one does on their DVD players, they simply use the 27 MHz video clock for everything (Yikes!)

Andrew,

Unlike the mass marketers, I'm pretty sure Arcam uses separate clocks and boards in their players. As you know, tne Arcam's are also pretty pricey compared to players from the big companies. But as you are pointing out, I'm sure that much of the interest in the Arcams is for the sound quality not the picture alone. I would prefer something like this by far over what we are likely to get for 1st generationHD/Blu-Ray players. It's going to be a good while before I jump onto the HD/Blu-Ray wagon. The current format has much to offer at good prices and the new formats seem to be so driven by content protection vs something that will truley benfit the consumer.

[Andrew M Ward]

Someone that has an ardent interest in high-fidelity sound reproduction is an audiophile. Your involvment in the business and the types of equipment you use seems to fit this description. Ultimately it is about the music but not just the music. :W

Yes I am a turd!
I have a deep love of the gear, actually I have an obsession about the gear.

I guess I was just bashing the guys with $50K in gear and 50 CDs ... and a circulation of four or so discs that shall go nameless here, as not to become largely disliked (more than I already am)

Back on topic:
I ultimately see the gear as a means to get my music to sound good, and I have a ton of music (sheer tonnage) I have about 100 DVD (movies) and about 1200 CD's ... 400 albums: Let quantity represent format fondness on this list.

I guess I shy away from the term audiophile because I like so much different gear, and I actually really love music.

I like the way so many electronics companies do their magic. It seems most audiophiles are so emotionally locked into one kind of gear or another (Tubes or vinyl or whatever) and don't seem to have any emotional room left for everything else.

Just an observation
That's all, no harm intended
Unfortunately I know guys with great audio set-ups but only have 50 or so CD’s and maybe 50 albums – all on the recommended audiophile recordings list of “must haves” – I shudder to be compared to that guy.

So I’ll henceforth be known as:
Andrew (don’t call me an audiophile) Ward
:rofl:

[maddog]

A HD- DVD player will probably be in excess of $3000 when released. And yes you do need a TV that will do 1080P either way. This player is for people that want to up-scale their old dvd's to 1080p which the HD- DVD will not do.

I see your point, especially if you already have a large collection of DVDs. But, I don't know where you're getting $3k from. HD DVD is for mass market, not niche market. I would be surprised if Denon and Sony did not come out with < $1k players at the start. But even if you are right about the $3k price tag, if you don't have a 1080p monitor, it would be cheaper to buy the $3k HD player and use your existing 1080i monitor than it would be to buy the RDV-1092 AND a 1080p monitor. Of course, the HD option won't help you with your old DVDs that you have already watched many times, but it will help you with new ones and re-released old ones.

A) HD-DVD players will not have scalers built into them, so your collection of legacy discs remain 480i

B) Have you looked at the companies supporting HD-DVD / enough said / clearly it's about collecting DVD logo royalties and nothing else. I don't anticipate any quality players from this bunch any-time-soon

C) regular DVD has about 5 good years left of media production, meaning I can get the movies I want for $12 to $19 for quite some time now

D) What's an HD-DVD movie cost? What's available first? Why should I even care if I already have a player that looks unreal and plays the existing media perfectly and has tons of available media for cheap...

And the audio! Don’t even get me started regarding up-sampling and so forth...

A) How do you know they won't upscale regular DVD's? Even if they don't, most monitors that support 1080i also can upscale to that. So they will have at least what they are getting now.

B) I am talking about all HD formats (including Blu-Ray). I am sure all companies that make regular DVD players will eventually make HD players. Besides, if they send the video digitally to the monitor (via HDMI or DVI) like the cable box does, there is no need for all that fancy processing in the player. If the quality is as good as the cable box delivers, it will still be the next level in comparison to upscaled standard-def DVDs.

C,D) Concerning prices of regular DVD's once HD DVD's are released and the cost of HD DVD's, it's all just speculation now. We'll just have to wait to see how that one pans out.

Concerning audio quality of HD DVD players, most people use the digital connection to their pre and not 6 analog connections. So that's a non-issue for most.

IMO, the two biggest obstacle of HD DVD that could benefit sales of the new 1080p players are the potential HD format war (if the HD players are not universal) and the release date. It was supposed to be this Christmas and now it's the middle of 2006. Who knows when it will actually be. But personally, I think it's worth the wait, especially since we are talking about big $$$. Just my preference.

[Andrew M Ward]

I see your point, especially if you already have a large collection of DVDs. But, I don't know where you're getting $3k from. HD DVD is for mass market, not niche market. I would be surprised if Denon and Sony did not come out with < $1k players at the start. But even if you are right about the $3k price tag, if you don't have a 1080p monitor, it would be cheaper to buy the $3k HD player and use your existing 1080i monitor than it would be to buy the RDV-1092 AND a 1080p monitor. Of course, the HD option won't help you with your old DVDs that you have already watched many times, but it will help you with new ones and re-released old ones.



A) How do you know they won't upscale regular DVD's? Even if they don't, most monitors that support 1080i also can upscale to that. So they will have at least what they are getting now.

B) I am talking about all HD formats (including Blu-Ray). I am sure all companies that make regular DVD players will eventually make HD players. Besides, if they send the video digitally to the monitor (via HDMI or DVI) like the cable box does, there is no need for all that fancy processing in the player. If the quality is as good as the cable box delivers, it will still be the next level in comparison to upscaled standard-def DVDs.

C,D) Concerning prices of regular DVD's once HD DVD's are released and the cost of HD DVD's, it's all just speculation now. We'll just have to wait to see how that one pans out.

Concerning audio quality of HD DVD players, most people use the digital connection to their pre and not 6 analog connections. So that's a non-issue for most.

IMO, the two biggest obstacle of HD DVD that could benefit sales of the new 1080p players are the potential HD format war (if the HD players are not universal) and the release date. It was supposed to be this Christmas and now it's the middle of 2006. Who knows when it will actually be. But personally, I think it's worth the wait, especially since we are talking about big $$$. Just my preference.

I must admit I completely disagree with virtually every word you say.

Oddly you embrace a future format before you embrace an existing format. 1080P is real - no hocus pocus, the chip sets are available right now, today, this second.

and then...
Based on your logic above we'll see cheap HD-DVD or blu-ray players with scalers? Interesting - but that’s really a ways down the road. I'm sure we'll see them but I'm really more interested in watching my 480i movies in High-Def today, not in 5 years.

Anyway I could go on and on but, I'll just leave it at "I totally disagree"

Frankly I'm not interested in a format war where only the consumer loses, while I can maximize the existing format right now, today... HD-DVD is about collecting DVD logo royalties, not providing the consumer with a better product.

Blu-Ray however is potentially an excellent upgrade but that really is a ways down the road.

more 2 cents.

[mattburk]

The marantz DV-9600 upscales to 1080P.

http://www.avland.co.uk/marantz/dv9600/dv9600.htm

http://www.marantz.com/new/index.cfm?fuseaction=Products.Product&cont=eu&bus=hf&prod_id=3515&series=comp&type=dvd

Should be out soon.

[w6000]

I see your point, especially if you already have a large collection of DVDs. But, I don't know where you're getting $3k from. HD DVD is for mass market, not niche market. I would be surprised if Denon and Sony did not come out with < $1k players at the start. But even if you are right about the $3k price tag, if you don't have a 1080p monitor, it would be cheaper to buy the $3k HD player and use your existing 1080i monitor than it would be to buy the RDV-1092 AND a 1080p monitor. Of course, the HD option won't help you with your old DVDs that you have already watched many times, but it will help you with new ones and re-released old ones.



A) How do you know they won't upscale regular DVD's? Even if they don't, most monitors that support 1080i also can upscale to that. So they will have at least what they are getting now.

B) I am talking about all HD formats (including Blu-Ray). I am sure all companies that make regular DVD players will eventually make HD players. Besides, if they send the video digitally to the monitor (via HDMI or DVI) like the cable box does, there is no need for all that fancy processing in the player. If the quality is as good as the cable box delivers, it will still be the next level in comparison to upscaled standard-def DVDs.

C,D) Concerning prices of regular DVD's once HD DVD's are released and the cost of HD DVD's, it's all just speculation now. We'll just have to wait to see how that one pans out.

Concerning audio quality of HD DVD players, most people use the digital connection to their pre and not 6 analog connections. So that's a non-issue for most.

IMO, the two biggest obstacle of HD DVD that could benefit sales of the new 1080p players are the potential HD format war (if the HD players are not universal) and the release date. It was supposed to be this Christmas and now it's the middle of 2006. Who knows when it will actually be. But personally, I think it's worth the wait, especially since we are talking about big $$$. Just my preference.

It is odvious that you have not done much research about this so I am not going to put much effort into responding to your post. One of the benefits to the Blue-Ray, HD-DVD format will be the ability to record in High Definition. Hence the high price tag for the players.

[Andrew M Ward]

It is odvious that you have not done much research about this so I am not going to put much effort into responding to your post. One of the benefits to the Blue-Ray, HD-DVD format will be the ability to record in High Definition. Hence the high price tag for the players.

Oh, Blu-Ray recorders are right around the corner.
I'll order one!
Yeah, it's not the first time I've been told I have no idea what I'm talking about

[aud19]

But what will you actually be allowed to record....?

:lol:

[Andrew M Ward]

But what will you actually be allowed to record....?

:lol:

Well according to Mark Kimball (Director of Digital Production and Technology) at The Walt Disney Company, they're not supporting a recordable Blu-Ray machine, so if (when, someday) one is made it won't record all the copy protected material in their library...

[aud19]

Most movies etc over your cable/satellite provider will also be blocked... But you'll be able to record that cooking show on HGTV in HD! :lol:

[w6000]

Oh, Blu-Ray recorders are right around the corner.
I'll order one!
Yeah, it's not the first time I've been told I have no idea what I'm talking about

The quote I highlighted was from maddog, not from you. I was essentially agreeing with what you said.

[w6000]

Not to try to turn this thread into a HD-DVD and Blue-Ray debate, because this is a Rotel forum.

But. One of the most anticipated uses of these formats is the ability to record in high definition. It is true that some content will be blocked, but the public wanted to be able to record high-def on something other than a video tape. The ability to record is also one of the main sticking points as to why they cannot decide on one format. One format is less expensive, but the other has more recording space, etc. etc. If the debate between HD-DVD and Blue-Ray was only about playing high-def movies, it would be simple- because the studios would produce cheap players just to sell movies that they upscaled themselves into high-def.

[Andrew M Ward]

The quote I highlighted was from maddog, not from you. I was essentially agreeing with what you said.

Gosh!
I don't even know how to behave if I can't be rude to somebody...
Thanks for the support :B

[maddog]

It is odvious that you have not done much research about this so I am not going to put much effort into responding to your post. One of the benefits to the Blue-Ray, HD-DVD format will be the ability to record in High Definition. Hence the high price tag for the players.

Then why don't you provide a link to something that supports your $3k minimum price tag, and while you are at it, provide a link supporting your claim that no one will come out with a player-only machine at a lower cost.

[w6000]

Then why don't you provide a link to something that supports your $3k minimum price tag, and while you are at it, provide a link supporting your claim that no one will come out with a player-only machine at a lower cost.

I never said a "3k minimun price tag". I said "probably in excess of $3k", Which means probably not definitley. I came to this conclusion from the release of any new technology. For instance HD-VHS, which when it came out was $2500+, also High-DEf video cameras, which were $4000+ when they came oout. Both of these products can be had well below those prices right now. As for your original post I guess I will respond.

a) You wrote "how do I know they wont upscale regular DVD's? even if they don't, most monitors will upscale to that.

-nothing I have read, has suggested that HD-DVD or Blue-Ray will upscale, it is not what they are intended to do. Your suggestion that TV's upscale is completely and totally false. They play things in their native resolution, but do not upscale.

b) You wrote " I am talking abou all HD formats. I am sure that companies that make regular DVD players will eventually make HD players.. Besides if they send the video digitally to the monitor (via HDMI of DVI) like the cable box does, there is no need for all that fancy processing in the player. If the quality is as good as the cable box delivers, it will still be the next level in comparison to the upscaled standard-def DVDs.

-Are you kidding? Fancy processing? you kids today. you mean the D/A converters in your T.V. yea and I guess is that the digital componets wont cost a thing acccording to you. Quality as good as the cable box? its the D/A converters that make the picture good not the free thing from the cable company.

c) You wrote-Concerning prices of regular DVD's once HD-DVD are released and the cost of HD DVD's, it's just speculation right now.

-Do you think that HD-DVD prices will be cheap or the DVD prices will go down.-NO, NO, NO

As for the audio, the formats will be and have always been in digital format. so there is no "most people", it is all people who want to use the audio benefits of High-Def TV.

Where did you get the perception that I said anything about a player only machine at a lower cost.

- The benefits of the products are different. They are two different products. One upscales, One plays and records High-Def. although the Blue-Ray is suppossed to be backwards compatible.

- I have already put too much effort into this. Please do some reading on this subject before you make your claims.

[Kevin D]

Wow, this is sounding familiar.. You guys sure know how to rile people up!

Lets stick to the 1092 and what it can do before we get into another disagreement on the abilities of 'yet-to-be-released' products. Feel free to start a new thread on one of the video or DVD forums here to continue the debate.

Thanks,

Kevin D.

[maddog]

- I have already put too much effort into this. Please do some reading on this subject before you make your claims.

And you need to learn to read. PERIOD! Your incoherent responses to my posts indicate that you did not understand any of my points or a single word I wrote. Not to mention that the A-D portion of my post was in response to Andrew's post (which he responded to), not yours.

(Sorry Kevin, but this is the second post in this thread where w6000 has made a personal attack against me. I deserve a response to that. I am now done with this thread.)

[Aussie Geoff]

Lets stick to the 1092 and what it can do before we get into another disagreement on the abilities of 'yet-to-be-released' products. Feel free to start a new thread on one of the video or DVD forums here to continue the debate.

Final warning for all concerned :rant:

Much of the discussion in this thread has been both off topic and not in the spirit of Club Rotel...

NO more off topic format war discussion on Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD and no personal attacks or the thread is locked... :twisted:

Geoff

[miket]

Hello,
I'd like an opinion on which solution would be better from a video point of view: the RDV-1092 or a combination of an RDV-1050/1060 and the new scaler RVE-1070? I'm guessing the scaler gives you flexibility (like a sort of video pre-amp with switching of sources and different video outs) whilst the RDV-1092 may have better CD playback, HDMI etc than the RDV-1050/1060.

thanks ..... miket

[Kevin D]

Both the 1092 and the 1070! You should get a better picture letting the 1092 keep it digital and scale it. Otherwise the 1050/1060 would output analog into the 1070 and then back to digital to scale it.

The 1070 should be able to pass the 1092's HDMI, plus scale everything else you have.

Kevin D.

[grit]

I've noticed different HD televisions have different native resolutions (1024x1024, 1024x768, etc). So, will the 1070 let you pick what resolution you scale the image to? If not, you'd just be scaling an image with the 1070, and then have the television re-scale it to its own native resolution, right?

[htsteve]

$1499

All,

I called Rotel directly about the RDV-1092. It should be available in April, according to them. He did confirm that the price was going to be $1499.

[Boone38]

I also called Rotel as I wanted to get the skinny on the 1092 as I am looking for a DVD player. It is slated to ship in the next 4-6 weeks. Price as noted in the prior post was 1499.00. However they told me that the RDV1040 is being replaced with the 1045 and will cost around 500.00. It will not have HDMI. A mid priced unit with HDMI will not be released for another 6-8 months and then only if the unit is ready. I can not afford the 1092 at this time and was told the the 1050 will remain for some time.

He also informed that the 1068 is not slated to be replaced til the end of the year. They are looking at installing a video scaler and cost is a factor that they are looking at. New processor will have HDMI. That was all he could tell me as they are still in the design phase.

With all the new formats and changes , I for one will sit back and watch movies and listen to my cds on the 1050 until all this shakes out. My 804s will still sound and look beatiful.

Hope this helps :roll:

[gianni]

With all the new formats and changes , I for one will sit back and watch movies and listen to my cds on the 1050 until all this shakes out. My 804s will still sound and look beatiful.

Hope this helps :roll:

Agreed. HDMI in it's current form does not do much for me. And, it seems the promises of newer versions are not close to being realised any time soon.

HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are going to have to take a few laps around the block before I jump on board. As Andrew pointed out in an earlier post, STD DVD still has some mileage left w/ good prices and selection, DVD can look great on a good system.

[grit]

My biggest concern for upcoming pre/pro's isn't video switching or scaling and HDMI input as it is decoding of HD-DD or HD-DTS. Does anyone have any input on whether or not the next version of the 1068 and/or 1098 will include decoding for those types of audio?

[Kevin D]

It's one of the main reasons they aren't out now.. FWIW, the new players will decode the signal as well for using the multi-inputs on older units. It won't be as good as a pre-pro decoding it, but it will work in the mean time.

Kevin D.

[htsteve]

Mid Level Player

Does anyone know if the mid priced HDMI player mentioned above will have upconversion? I think it might not, since it might take away sales from the 1092. Any insight is appreciated.

[Nolan B]

I've noticed different HD televisions have different native resolutions (1024x1024, 1024x768, etc). So, will the 1070 let you pick what resolution you scale the image to? If not, you'd just be scaling an image with the 1070, and then have the television re-scale it to its own native resolution, right?

You are right. The 1070 really isnt a great solution as an external video processor. Not sure the price point yet, but if you truelly want the benefits of an external video scaler you are better off getting one that allows you to customize the out other wise you are still relying on the internal processor of the plasma.

I have a 50" Fujitsu plasma which arguably has one of if not the best internal processor you can get on a plasma...the picture still looks better when I bypass the internal processor when sending it the native resolution from my iscan HD.

You do future proof yourself a bit with a good external video processor. I would put my RDV 1060 and DVDO iScan HD against any dvd player with HDMI..including the new one from rotel. The only time I saw a better picture (marginally) from a DVD player with HDMI was form a Denon 5910 (which has DVDO built into it ).