2 Ch purists...what are my options? rc-1070 or ??

[tboooe]

Hi, I am setting up a 2ch configuration. Right now I have b&w 805s, RB1080, and will be getting the RDC1072 and REL sub very soon. So my question is:

What preamp should I get? It seems that people think the RC-1070 is OK and the RC-1090 was better but it has been discontinued. Are there other brands I should consider? There have been some posts mentioning the Bryston. I am have done a pure 2ch setup before so I am a bit new to all of this.

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

[DrJRapp]

I've listened to the Parasound Halo P3 2 channel driving a Halo amp and Totem speakers. The Halo is very smooth and very quiet. Almost like it isn't there at all. Come to think of it...isn't that what we supposidly want? However, when listening to my 1098 push 2 channel thru my 1080 the sound is much more immediate and involving, an effect I often prefer for the type of program material I like. So many choices,I think that's what makes this hobby so exciting, and confusing.

[Jeff]

One of the only things Adcom is making which I would buy is their model 750 pre amp. It has no bypass for HT so I couldn't purchase it. If I was to consider a separate pre/pro that would be on my short list. The 1090 is also a good choice.

Don't feel bad because the 1090 is discontinued. I'm sure there are still many in the hands of dealers. Heck, they may be willing to cut you a deal!

Jeff

[Energeezer]

I just went down this road.
I have a Rotel RSX 1055 receiver which is now powering my center, sides and backs. (It used to do the fronts as well). Prev I had a RMB 1075 5CH amp and was using the 1055 as a pre pro plus powering the center backs using redirect. I found that sys to be great for moveis but I wanted more for 2CH.
I have ended up with the following
The RSX 1055 is still in the system but only for movies. It is powering the center, sides and backs as I stated above. I run cabling from the front pre outs to my new (used) 2 CH sys for movies only.
My 2 CH sys is this
Aragon 8008 2 CH power amp. 200 into 8ohms and 400 into 4ohms
Acurus RL 11 Pre-amp. (very basic but has MOTOR controlled volume on remote and it was cheap 300 CDN). Not only that but it sounds better than any HT receiver I've heard for 2CH.
NAD C542 CDP. Bought used from my brother its a decent player.
Paradigm Ref 100 V3 fronts and servo 15 V2 sub.
The Aragon amp made such a huge differnce over the Rotel 1075 that I was absolutely shocked. Of course it should since its a higher end dedicated dual mono 2CH amp but the diffeence had to be heard to be appreciated.
Over the years I've come to the conclusion that my tastes far outrun my wallet so I always try to buy used equip whenever possible. I paid 1K CDN for the Aragon which although its an earlier model was 2 years old (original bill supplied to prove). This amp was $2500 USD when new and something I could not afford to buy from a dealer.
The Acurus pre is not up to the quality of the Aragon and does not have a HT pass thru (so cable swapping is in order when switching between movies and 2CH) but it still blows the 1055 completely out of the water for 2 CH and it was 300 CDN.
I'm on the lookout for a higher end solid state or tubed pre-amp (used of course) that has HT pass and remote and a great price. Perhaps a BAT or Audio Research. When I find it the Acurus will get sold and because it was bought used I will get almost all my money back.
I am trying to make 2 points with this post.
1) I do not know anyones financial limits but I feel it is safe to say that regardless of what you spend you will get better bang for the buck buying used and recoup most of your cash when/if you sell. If I had more cash I would still buy used but go furthur up the food chain. Maybe Mark Levinson or the likes.
2) I love my Rotel gear and I do not regret buying it for a minute . Hell I was able to afford it new and I feel it completely satisfies my needs for home theater. If I was doing the HT thing again I'd buy used Rotel gear furthur up the chain but I feel Rotel is easily surpassed by many different brands for 2CH. Please understand that this is only MY OPINION and not a slap at Rotel.

[tboooe]

energeezer:

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I completely concur with you regarding having tastes go well beyond that the wallet and wife and handle. I too try to buy used when I can.

After much thinking and auditioning, I have settled on the following setup:

Parasound Halo P3 Preamp
Parasound Halo A21 Amp (I will upgrade this to the dual mono amps when I upgrade my speakers)
Cary 303/300 CDP
B&W 805S (I will probably upgrade to 804S/803S/D sometime next year)

Looking really forward, I would like to experiment with tube preamps. The Cary CDP has a tube buffer and analog output so I cna start to play around with tubes and tube rolling.

For now, this system should satisfy me. Once I get the new speakers, I think I will done (for a while :B )

[Energeezer]

Well once you get that all hooked up you are gonna be shocked at how much room your old stuff left for improvement.
A Carey 303. I'm jealous.
BTW
I don't think I mentioned the wife but you certainly hit the nail on the head. LOL

On a ramble
You know its funny.
I was really into 2CH Hi-Fi (low to mid fi actually) when i was in my teens and early twenties. Then came college, debt, wife, kids etc etc and my interest faded until I was sitting on a 15 year old Yamaha/Cerwin Vega based system.
Along comes HT and my interest was peaked. I ended up getting cheap HT stuff first. You know the HT ina box stuff. Quickly I upgraded to decent Rotel stuff and was happy for a while when HT was the priority. I'm not sure if it was the novelty of 7 ch or what but once the initial WOW of decent HT wore off I have found myself pulled back to 2CH.
I still love my HT but I just do not get a real charge out of even the best soundtracks now. When I power up the higher end 2CH sys and listen to music the magic is back.
I've come full circle.
Long live 2CH.

[tboooe]

energeezer:

I am eactly like you in terms of HT. I dont watch too much TV or movies so I opted for a HT in box from best buy. I am not sure I will ever upgrade beyond ths though. 2 Ch is my passion! Long Live 2Ch Indeed!!!!

[DrJRapp]

tboooe

Then you need to stop fooling around with HT speakers like the B&W 800s and get yourself some speakers that were designed specifiacally for 2 channel. I would look at the Klipsch Heritages.

[tboooe]

u know i did listen to the Klipsch (though not the Heritages) and did not like them as muhc as the B&W. I did not know that B&W speakers were designed for HT. As I evolve in my preferences and learn more about 2Ch I will definitely look towards other speakers, Klipsch included!

[RebelMan]

tboooe, I think you are getting fed some misinformation. B&W speakers were not designed for HT applications. Their lineup was enhanced with the addition of surround sound monitors and subwoofers but their heritage has always been two-channel.

You should exersize some caution in what people say, as much of it is opinionated. It is good to listen to the advice and experience of others but verify what you hear before making any costly decisions.

[RebelMan]

u know i did listen to the Klipsch (though not the Heritages) and did not like them as muhc as the B&W.

Many high-end enthusiasts in the "trade" will tell you their dislike for horn-loaded speakers, like Klipsch, because of their tendency to color the upper midrange and trebel frequencies. You probably noticed this anomoly during your audition.

[Energeezer]

IMO
If you have he cash BMW makes some of the best speakers for 2CH.
I'm not a big fan of thier lower lines since I feel you can get the same performance for less cash elsewhere but when you start to climb the ladder they make some real nice stuff.

[tboooe]

Rebelman, thanks for the advice. Believe me, I know how subjective this crazy hobby is. I take everyone's reviews or opinions as just a starting point or catalyst for my own research and education.

Jerry are you spreading mis-information??

[DrJRapp]

Not at all, the B&Ws 800 series was designed for HT and their website says they have many models to suit many applicatiolns. The Klipsch Heritage, on the other hand were designed a long time before HT was even conceived. They still make Heritage only for 2 channel, no centers, no surrounds. OBTW, you can't classify Heritage by the sound of any other Klipsch speaker. I don't think James knows much about Klipsch at all, and I doubt he could find one so called expert person in the trade that has even seen a KHorn let alone heard one.

Jimmy just can't get over the guilt of having overpaid so much for speakers and he needs others to join him to justify his extravegance....LOL

[Jeff]

Well so much for my Nautilus 802's. I suppose I'll give them to my mother or incorporate them into my garage system.

Some day I'll get some REAL 2 channel speakers. :rofl:

Jeff
( just slumming it with the 802's until the upgrade)

[RebelMan]

Not at all, the B&Ws 800 series was designed for HT and their website says they have many models to suit many applicatiolns.

tboooe, the B&W 800 series was designed with the flagship Nautilus (Snail) (technologies) in mind not HT. Jerry should have pointed that out. If he is going to tell the story he needs to be complete and he shouldn't take it out of context. Nothing about the flagship is HT inspired, not even the prestige (Signature) series which came AFTER the original "Nautilus 800" series and before the new "800 Series" release.

HT features were included in the original 800 series lineup to meet the needs of customers wanting to implement the growing popularity of "surround sound" into their homes. The comments Jerry makes about B&W can be made about many speaker manufacturers. For Jerry to single out B&W just goes to show his ignorance of the brand.

I don't think James knows much about Klipsch at all, and I doubt he could find one so called expert person in the trade that has even seen a KHorn let alone heard one.

Admittedly, I am less interested in Klipsch than Jerry is. However, unlike his perspective of B&W, I know enough to conclude that Klipsch is not for me and that one should not speak on what one does not know just to maintain a "celebrity" like status! :lol:

Here's one expert: Robert Harley

BTW, I have listened to Klipsch both past and present and I don't care for them but they do have their place... (I'll spare Jerry the derogatory remarks I could make about them.)

Jimmy just can't get over the guilt of having overpaid so much for speakers and he needs others to join him to justify his extravegance....LOL

I won't deny that I think they are a little pricey but I would rather spend more for a great product than to spend less and settle for something else!

Speaking of others joining in, Jerry, I noticed you pick your friends by the speakers they own, so what's wrong with me extending you an invitation to join B&W? LOL... LOL... LOL...

Bottom line tboooe: Remember what I told you! :wink:

[Joey_V]

No way can the 802N not be suitable for 2 channel... no way. I wont believe that at all. Those things are awesome for stereo listening... in fact, they can do anything from 2ch listening to sacd listening to ht.

However, as is true in audio - YMMV.

[DrJRapp]

Speaking of others joining in, Jerry, I noticed you pick your friends by the speakers they own, so what's wrong with me extending you an invitation to join B&W? LOL... LOL... LOL...

Dah...The friends I chose to listen to the Halo mostly have Klipsch speakers and for a reason, they live in homes I built, and have theaters I built. Plus, I wanted other Klipsch owners opinions, not DefTec or Paradigm or B&W owners opinions. If I wanted that I would have invited those friends. The fifth owns Wilson and Oynx with Krell, he was here for another reason and just decided to participate.

I admit that I don't know as much as you do about B&W (at least as far as their advertising hype goes) but unlike with you with Klipsch I have listened to most of the B&W line, (including the snails) not just one or two speakers and (mirroring your so called "experts" carefully chosen words) I don't care for any them at all. To me the entire B&W 800 line is way too bright and thin in the lower mid and bottom for my tastes until you get to around the 802s and above. If you understand that this statement is comeing from an owner of Klipsch speakers that are known for their brightness then the extent of what I am saying becomes obvious. There is a reason for this brightness. The 800 series was designed intentionally bright to compensate for being placed behind perforated screens, and in acoustically dead theater rooms, with their associated HF losses. If this isn't being "designed for HT, then what is??? If anyone thinks this is BS then go listen to some 803s behind a peforated screen in an acoustically dead theater room as I have, and the truth in what I say will become immediatly apparent. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" as they say.

The snails do look really neat. At 33K a pair they need to have something really special going for them. And, (mirroring your expert again) I suppose they do have their place (for people who have too much money to spend?).

[tboooe]

cant we all just get along???

[junior77blue]

One of the only things Adcom is making which I would buy is their model 750 pre amp. It has no bypass for HT so I couldn't purchase it.
Jeff

Not true, the Adcom GFP-750 (gold plate) does in fact have a processor input for HT applications. I'm currently using this in conjuction with their GTP-880 Pre/Pro for HT while useing the 750 for stereo only inputs.

[Bam!]

Dah...The friends I chose to listen to the Halo mostly have Klipsch speakers and for a reason, they live in homes I built, and have theaters I built. Plus, I wanted other Klipsch owners opinions, not DefTec or Paradigm or B&W owners opinions. If I wanted that I would have invited those friends. The fifth owns Wilson and Oynx with Krell, he was here for another reason and just decided to participate.

I admit that I don't know as much as you do about B&W (at least as far as their advertising hype goes) but unlike with you with Klipsch I have listened to most of the B&W line, (including the snails) not just one or two speakers and (mirroring your so called "experts" carefully chosen words) I don't care for any them at all. To me the entire B&W 800 line is way too bright and thin in the lower mid and bottom for my tastes until you get to around the 802s and above. If you understand that this statement is comeing from an owner of Klipsch speakers that are known for their brightness then the extent of what I am saying becomes obvious. There is a reason for this brightness. The 800 series was designed intentionally bright to compensate for being placed behind perforated screens, and in acoustically dead theater rooms, with their associated HF losses. If this isn't being "designed for HT, then what is??? If anyone thinks this is BS then go listen to some 803s behind a peforated screen in an acoustically dead theater room as I have, and the truth in what I say will become immediatly apparent. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" as they say.

The snails do look really neat. At 33K a pair they need to have something really special going for them. And, (mirroring your expert again) I suppose they do have their place (for people who have too much money to spend?).

Interesting Jerry,

For me, and I don't mean this to belittle B&W speakers cause they are the most famous audiophile speakers, but I find that the coherence between the drivers quite annoying. While this phenomenon is well known when listening to B&W's (you get the feeling that you are hearing a tweeter, a mid, and a woofer)it doesn't stop it from having its charm.

The other thing is they are greedy little buggars for power, and I enjoy SETs for power.

Respectfully
my 2 cents.

[DrJRapp]

cant we all just get along???

Don't worry about that ...James and I are aways polking fun at each other over our respective speaker preferences. Usually it's behind the scenes in pm's, but sometimes pokes its head into open air when the subject matter suggests a good debate.

He really thinks he can convert someone who has had 7 sets of speakers from Klipsch over the past 20 years. He busts me for my preference to the pedestrian look of the RF7s I bust him for being so deluded and waisting his money on a speaker that looks like an antique car headlamp with a handle. I say that in a dark room it really doesn't matter what a speaker looks like, what does matter is what it sounds like.

I am thinking of making a big concession to him soon. I'm actually looking for an affordable used set of B&W Snails. I'm doing my study library over with kind of a seashore look and the snails fit right in. Doesn't much matter what they sound like since they'll only be playing background music. I know they are a bit pricy, but unique products like that hold their value over time. Also they have active crossovers (just like Bose) and require four channels of amplification each. Talk about an investment...lol

[KathyMason]

RebelMan (or James???) - I own the Klipsch RF-7's. These are not like past Klipsch speakers, these give you the best of both Worlds, cone and horn. I have listened to the Heritage Klipsch, the Klipschorn and La Scalas and they have a very strong following and people swear by them, I have listened to them and compared them with the RF-7's from an invite I received from a fellow Klipsch forum member, couldn't resist the invitation. I prefer the Klipsch RF-7, much more graceful, smooth, and refined. Yes the Klipschorn and La Scalas sounded very nice but more on the ears. The RF-7's also have much better imaging and resolution to the older Heritage technology. Maybe it’s a guy thing liking the Heritage more but I don't dare tell Heritage guys this over on the Klipsch forum or it will turn into a very ugly case of flame attacks, I only made this mistake once! Klipsch makes great speakers and with the right equipment, I think you would change your mind possibly.

Before my Klipsch RF-7 purchase, I listened to many speakers on the market. I used to have Martin Logan speakers that I replaced with Klipsch RF-7's. I was very interested in the B&W speakers and listened to them several times trying to decide between the N803 or N804, I listened to the N800 and N802 for fun but way out of my price range. I do like the looks and design of the N800 the dealer had and extremely heavy speaker. I thought the B&W sounded very nice, mainly the mid-range. I felt the N803 and N804 lacked bass for that price, and doing some research on the internet proved to me what I was hearing, too many complained about the bass that owned both N803 and N804 speakers. I would have to move up to the N800 or N802 for it to be better. This is where Klipsch came in for me, as I've never at that time known about Klipsch or heard one. I walked in and heard the RF-7's playing and was quite shocked, couldn't believe the sound. I just couldn't believe sound like that could be coming from just two speakers. I asked what other speakers are on, he said just the two you are hearing, the RF-7's. It was just way too real sounding, unbelievable. I compared them to the B&W speakers and I quickly lost interest in the B&W speakers, and I was waiting for the price of the RF-7's and couldn't believe my ears, even better price than the B&W speakers, with a sound I loved when I first heard them. The Klipsch RF-7's are a real bargain and one of the best sounding products out, that I compared them with. Klipsch speakers are very highly revealing so you do really have to make sure you have top quality equipment for it, but if you do, the Klipsch will really reward you with some of the best realistic sound you have ever heard that is revealing and dynamic.

Is it a full moon or something??? Seems lately on several different forums that people are forgetting politeness. I even got an email from a guy that sent me a picture of his un-clothed rear, telling me where I could crawl up his ***. All because of a reply to a post that he didn't like what I said. I don't understand people some times!

I enjoyed reading your review Jerry, hope all is well with you and your wife. Did I read right that your step son once blew your tweeter on the RF-7 from turning the unit on when the volume was all the way up? I don't think I would let him touch it again! The replacement on those aren't cheap!

Take care!

[KathyMason]

Oh My! Those B&W Snails are way too pricey for me, even at used prices!!!

[RebelMan]

Dah...The friends I chose to listen to the Halo mostly have Klipsch speakers and for a reason, they live in homes I built, and have theaters I built. Plus, I wanted other Klipsch owners opinions, not DefTec or Paradigm or B&W owners opinions. If I wanted that I would have invited those friends.

Your were evaluating Halo and Rotel not Klipsch. The difference in details should have been noticed by anyone with the experience to listen critically.

I admit that I don't know as much as you do about B&W (at least as far as their advertising hype goes) but unlike with you with Klipsch I have listened to most of the B&W line, (including the snails) not just one or two speakers and (mirroring your so called "experts" carefully chosen words) I don't care for any them at all.

Your position has the appearance of being hypocritical. Only when it seems to suit your case will you utilize the “advertising hype” as you put it.

I haven’t had the opportunity to listen to the whole Klipsch line for two reasons. One reason has been the lack of distribution in my area. The other reason, when Klipsch availability was more plentiful, I didn’t care for their sound, or the lack there of. When you hear some of the best speakers a manufacture has to offer, it really doesn’t necessitate listening to the whole line. Perhaps your interests in listening to most of the B&W line are hints of Klipsch regret?

To me the entire B&W 800 line is way too bright and thin in the lower mid and bottom for my tastes until you get to around the 802s and above. If you understand that this statement is comeing from an owner of Klipsch speakers that are known for their brightness then the extent of what I am saying becomes obvious. There is a reason for this brightness. The 800 series was designed intentionally bright to compensate for being placed behind perforated screens, and in acoustically dead theater rooms, with their associated HF losses. If this isn't being "designed for HT, then what is??? If anyone thinks this is BS then go listen to some 803s behind a peforated screen in an acoustically dead theater room as I have, and the truth in what I say will become immediatly apparent. "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" as they say.

Honestly, no speaker appeals to everyone. I suppose anyone could find weakness with any brand of speaker. You prefer Klipsch and I prefer B&W and we can leave it at that. However, to state the untrue does require correction. The 800 series was not designed to be intentionally bright, but intentionally accurate. Unfortunately, one’s intensions may not prevail as anticipated. This can be seen in B&W’s choice to use Diamond tweeters, over aluminum, in their new top end. Though, still imperfect, it is one step closer.

As you may know Rotel uses B&W speakers to voice their electronics. What you may not have known is why. It would be to establish a reference point. Rotel will “soften” the high end of their equipment because many of their customers complain of the “brittle high end” some speakers posses, like your Klipsch. Your brightness theory is in conflict with Rotel practices and is therefore meaningless, or in other words, BS. Pudding anyone? LOL

Where one chooses to place their monitors does not define their design. Perhaps Klipsch just wasn’t good enough to use in the demonstration of “perforated screens”. Another overlooked point that needed clarification.

The snails do look really neat. At 33K a pair they need to have something really special going for them. And, (mirroring your expert again) I suppose they do have their place (for people who have too much money to spend?).

Regardless, the point is they are two-channel through and through.

[RebelMan]

cant we all just get along???

Oh yeah, Jerry and I don't take this seriously at all. It's just fun banter. If we couldn't tease each other, I think this would make for some boring posts.

[DrJRapp]

- I enjoyed reading your review Jerry, hope all is well with you and your wife. Did I read right that your step son once blew your tweeter on the RF-7 from turning the unit on when the volume was all the way up? I don't think I would let him touch it again! The replacement on those aren't cheap!

Take care!

Actually it was both tweeters on a pair of RF3s. The replacement was a bit costly...it came in the form of an entire 7 series setup. I don't let my step son touch my system, but he sometimes takes it upon himself to do so and show off "our" equipment to his friends. He thinks the sound of an amp clipping is an "effect", and can't understand why he blows his own speakers the way he does.

OBTW, I completely agree with you about the RF7s. I think they are one of the best tower speakers out there at any price. I only recommend Heritage series for stereo because they are 3 way design.

[DrJRapp]

The other reason, when Klipsch availability was more plentiful, I didn’t care for their sound, or the lack there of.

I wouldn't care for their sound either if I were listening to them at Ultimate Electronics with a cheap Yammi receiver. I wonder how your B&W would sound under those circumstances?

[RebelMan]

RebelMan (or James???) - Is it a full moon or something??? Seems lately on several different forums that people are forgetting politeness. I even got an email from a guy that sent me a picture of his un-clothed rear, telling me where I could crawl up his ***. All because of a reply to a post that he didn't like what I said. I don't understand people some times!

It really is James Dean.

Kathy, I have a lot of respect for Jerry, and he knows this, and I think we actually get along pretty well. As he said, our back and forth bickering, for lack of a better word, does rear its little head in public from time to time but it's all in good fun.

[RebelMan]

I wouldn't care for their sound either if I were listening to them at Ultimate Electronics with a cheap Yammi receiver. I wonder how your B&W would sound under those circumstances?

Well, that was only recently and it was Pioneer. True, it wasn't the best environment. I am still waiting for Orangepeel to get back with me on a real demonstration. To be fair B&W is not always showcased in the best light either yet still shines bright (in a good way!), with the right gear of course.

[DrJRapp]

Kathy

If James sent you a picture of his unclothed rear you would see that one cheek has a B branded on it and the other a W.

[DrJRapp]

I am still waiting for Orangepeel to get back with me on a real demonstration.

You should drop Scott a note. He hasn't been around here too often of late. Too bad you never visit Florida, in West Palm you can listen to B&W 803D right along side Klipsch RF7 on the same Rotel gear. I'm sure that would be a sobering and enlightining experience.

[RebelMan]

I am thinking of making a big concession to him soon. I'm actually looking for an affordable used set of B&W Snails.

I never expected you to give up Klipsch, just like I find it will be difficult for you to give up Rotel, possible maybe but difficult. I'm just hoping to count you as another member of the Club. If you really got the Snails, not only would you be one but perhaps THE one! I hope this is not some smoke and mirrors trick, Jerry!

[RebelMan]

Kathy

If James sent you a picture of his unclothed rear you would see that one cheek has a B branded on it and the other a W.

LOL! That is too funny!

[RebelMan]

You should drop Scott a note. He hasn't been around here too often of late. Too bad you never visit Florida, in West Palm you can listen to B&W 803D right along side Klipsch RF7 on the same Rotel gear. I'm sure that would be a sobering and enlightining experience.

Yeah, we did connect briefly a while back but he and I were pretty busy at the time. The Florida offer would be awesome but I recently found out my wife is pregnant. Her due date is in March and we had plans to take a Florida cruise next summer, but that may change now.

[DrJRapp]

I hope this is not some smoke and mirrors trick, Jerry!

Not at all, but I don't have a lot of hope in finding a good pair available at a fair price.

[DrJRapp]

I recently found out my wife is pregnant. Her due date is in March and we had plans to take a Florida cruise next summer, but that may change now.

Congratulations!

[RebelMan]

Kathy, were the B&W's you heard of the older Nautilus series? The newer 800 Series has made improvements to the low end alleviating some of the thinness in bass. I agree the 802s and up are fuller and more well rounded then the rest of the line.

Still, what you noticed lacking about the N803/N804 is what I noticed lacking with the Klipsch RF7's, that is bass extension. Jerry has told me that with the right equipment the RF7's will come to life. My meeting, someday, with Orangepeel is suppose to demonstrate this. In the mean time, I still find the 7" drivers on my 803S's to perform much better than the 10" drivers on the RF7's.

[KathyMason]

LOL, you guys are fun! Glad to hear you have good sense of humors! :W

[KathyMason]

Kathy, were the B&W's you heard of the older Nautilus series? I still find the 7" drivers on my 803S's to perform much better than the 10" drivers on the RF7's.

I think so, it most likey was the older Nautilus. I think the new ones have a D behind them for Diamond? I know I didn't listen to the Nautilus D's, wasn't out at the time I listen to them, or not at the dealers yet.

True, the RF-7's are picky about it. I have a couple of other amps that aren't much to speak about but the bass will just not come out with those. I have no problem getting it from the Rotel and with a much better improved sound it gives to the RF-7's too, that the other two amps don't get near that.
Those two have just been sitting in boxes now. I still need to get rid of them.

[DrJRapp]

Still, what you noticed lacking about the N803/N804 is what I noticed lacking with the Klipsch RF7's, that is bass extension. Jerry has told me that with the right equipment the RF7's will come to life. My meeting, someday, with Orangepeel is suppose to demonstrate this.

Believe me it will. Bass extension is the RF7s forte. A lot of people assume that because the RF7s are so efficient and can basically be powered of an iPod that they don't need a high powered amp. However, a receiver can't supply the current that the 7's 2.8 ohm dip in the low frequencies requires. With a low powered receiver the low end will sound weak and loose and as Kathy can attest (she runs a 1090) with good power (200 watts and up) the low end is thunderous. Scott runs a 1095 which is (on paper at least) the same power as my 1080. At last look Scott hadn't done the crossover mods that I've incorporated into my RF7s and RC7 that have made them much smoother and sweeter in the upper mid and extreme top. I don't think Kathy has either.

[junior77blue]

What was the topic of this thread? Options for a 2-channel preamp?

[DrJRapp]

What was the topic of this thread? Options for a 2-channel preamp?

There are so few 2 channel pre-amp options that we needed to "fill-in" with 2 channel speaker options...LOL

[Marlboroman]

I like to take note of the major recording studios in the world. See what brand of speakers the majority of them use and that should tell you which brand is preferred for true music reproduction whether it is recording 2 channel tracks or surround sound. You will find that any major studio uses B&W speakers because of their faithful reproduction of sound. Some people do not like the sound of the original and want it to have more bass, or more treble, or whatever. Each person will have their own taste in electronics, speakers, cables, music, movies, etc.... Personally I can not stand the sound of Klipsch speakers but I know plenty of people that love them. You are going to have to demo a lot of brands to find which one you prefer. Good luck in your search.

SM

[ProStereo]

Personally I can not stand the sound of Klipsch speakers
SM

Personally........ I love the sound of Klipsch speakers! :T ;x(