Sold my Parasound Halo A21 and got the Rotel RB-1090 !!!! Wow!!

[mmpeak]

Hello everyone here. I'm new posting here, although I've been
reading on here for a long time, I decided to finally post on
here.

A ways back I was in the market for a new amp and did much
reading at several forums, reviews, recommendations and all that
stuff.


I really let myself get swayed towards Parasound after reading
all the folks praise here and not seeming to care for Rotel.
After I purchased my Parasound Halo A21, after much pushing from
the sales guy to go with it over the others, I did the break-in
thing and I liked how it sounded, is nice, but it seems to come
too close to an older very nice Marantz I have, except during
long periods of listening, I could swear I felt a little ear
fatigue, even my wife complained and liked to turn it off when
she felt that.

A friend of mine kept telling me I should get an Odyssey Stratos
Mono Extreme, and another friend loved his Rotel RB-1090 and said
it was the best amp he ever liked, including his Levenson or
McIntosh. I had remembered seeing that monster looking Rotel
RB-1090 when I was looking at amps. Any way, to make a long
story short, we all got together at my house and went back and
forth between them and we all over-all loved the Rotel RB-1090.
It has an over all smoothness that is very nice, very nice low
end and high end. It was enough to make me sell my Parasound
Halo A21 to get that Rotel RB-1090! It has no ear fatigue at all
no matter how many hours and hours you listen to it.

I can see why there is a difference now between them, the Rotel
has an even better build than the Parasound between these two
models and they are both the same price. The Parasound has a
nice build but doesn't have two separate 1.2kVA transformers like
the Rotel, the Parasound only has one. The Rotel RB-1090 also
has 8 huge capacitors, each near the size of beer can. The
Parasound's capacitors are very small compared to the Rotel. I
can hear the difference of the higher build quality of the Rotel.
Rotel really gives you a lot of value there, it's unbelievable. The
Rotel RB-1090 also weighs about 90 pounds. Very heavy, takes
two people to move it. Well, two if you don't want to break your
back!

I've learned an important lesson here, I truly believe that what
others have pointed out over and over that I've read. It is all
in the ears of the beholder that should be the final judge. I've
learned that you can't make your mind up on others or reviews
saying this is best and no that one isn't. It's all up to you
because I did an expensive mistake for myself that cost me. I
don't blame any one but myself for that.

The Odyssey Stratos Mono Extreme gets rave reviews and users
swear by it and guys tell me all the time that it beats the heck
out of the Rotel RB-1090 and all that crap but it's not true at
all. Maybe they want to believe that or maybe to them it is such
but to tell you the truth, I couldn't figure out what all the
hype going on about the Odyssey was because I didn't really care
for it, I like the Parasound and Rotel better than it, but then
that's just me. My over all pick was for the Rotel RB-1090 and I
only speak for these three models for myself because it's the
only ones I listen to side by side.

My advice now is to any one in the market for a new amp, do your
research, go out and listen, and go by your own ears of what you
think sounds best to you, don't let the salesman sway you, make
your own mind up. Read reviews and user reviews but still go by
your own ears and don't let others views sway you away from your
own! Then you will be sure you made your own decision and not
some one elses.

Thanks everyone, just wanted to share my input here so others can
learn from my mistake if it helps anyone make their own minds up. :T :E

[SpOoNmAn]

First off, let me say Im glad you found what you were looking for. Thats the best part of this hobby. Congrats

But seeing as we all hear different things...

I experienced opposite results. I had the 1075 for a long time and was thinking about getting the 1090 or 1095 so I headed to my dealer. I listened to the 1090 and the A21 thru the Deftechs I own now(I didnt own them at the time), with a Denon receiver acting as pre/pro(the dealer let me fiddle around.

I found the Parasound to be less fatiguing after listening to a full cd of Sarah Brightman in listening room #2. I popped in some Duran Duran, Metallica, Yes, and others, and I much preferred the Parasound overall.

I then bought the A52(still for sale), and just upgraded to the A51. Parasound for me, next up...Bryston

[Peter Nielsen]

next up...Bryston

Hmm... I'm not sure Bryston would be an upgrade. Personally I regard the Parasound's flagship JC1 higher than Bryston's 7B SST.

However, Bryston has at least three very good selling points compared to Parasound:

• 20 year warranty

• 3-channel amps

• Replacable front panels in 4 different combinations (silver/black with or without rack ears)

If you ask me, what next up is, I would say "Krell" without hesitation (at least when it comes to power amps).

Peter

[nicholtl]

Krell is too harsh and analytical to my soft, tender ears. I'd prefer amps by Classe or Pass Labs.

Congrats mmpeak, your story was both entertaining and amusing. Thanks for sharing! Enjoy.

[SpOoNmAn]

not impressed with Krell at all, not for the $$ atleast. Classes are nice, but I'll take the build quality and dependability of a Bryston over any other brand to be honest. maybe by this time next year I'll start the rebuilding process

[Chris D]

Well, while no banana here, mmpeak, the important thing is, you're happy! And THAT is the important thing. Congrats!

[mmpeak]

NO, say it isn't so!

wow, I just found out that Rotel won't be making the RB-1090 any more,
the production on it has been stopped because the RB-1091 and RB-1092 digital amps are replacing it. Sure glad I got this monster RB-1090 because I don't want to move to digital amps yet until they prove themselves better than they have so far! Nothing like the "pure" sound of a top quality analog
amp so far where the digital can't sound "pure" like an analog! Glad I got this Rotel RB-1090 before they stopped making it !!! And I had no idea 8O

[nicholtl]

Interesting. Rotel is making the leap into digital, and leaving SS analog amps behind? Wonder who the brainchild was behind this questionable company progression?

[bhuskins]

Halcro Logic will exclusively have digital amps in their theater line as well. Their entire line will be available in late March. Expect them to be very impressive. They will have a 2, 3, 5 & 7 channel Amp and 2 pre/pro units. The 2 channel will MSRP at $4,500 and they go up from there. The top of the line prepro will MSRP at $10,000. Also, the Amps have an Ethernet port for control and emailing dealers if there is a problem with a module. You can individually control the on/off status of any of the amp channels through the port. Their modules are field replaceable/upgradeable as well.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[Kingdaddy]

I think it's the Amp/Speaker combination that makes the audible difference, some speakers present a more difficult load then others, which IMO makes the different sound. However, when you get into active speakers I have noticed very little to no audible difference in any of the higher quality amps I've tried. It's been my experience that ear fatigue has nothing to do with the amp, a simple mood change will effect ear fatigue more then all the components put together, so how would you know if it's equipment related or not. I always find it amazing on how some can hear such subtle nuances in equipment after such long intervals of time while swapping equipment, I can barley tell with lightning fast A/B switching in most cases. Amps are pretty simple, not much to in there to add to the sound if there done right, at least that’s my thinking.

[NMyTree]

Krell is too harsh and analytical to my soft, tender ears. I'd prefer amps by Classe or Pass Labs.

What, you don't like Parasound Amps? :B :lol: :lol:

[Peter Nielsen]

not impressed with Krell at all, not for the $$ atleast.

Yes, that's why I chose Parasound. Krell is overpriced. However, if money was not an issue, it would be Krell for me.

Classes are nice, but I'll take the build quality and dependability of a Bryston over any other brand to be honest. maybe by this time next year I'll start the rebuilding process

AFAIK Classé and Bryston are Canadian. I prefer buying American.

Also, could you explain to me in what way Bryston has better build quality than Parasound? I think Parasound's build quality is excellent and completely a par with Bryston at least when it comes to comparing the A51 and JC1 to Bryston's offerings.

(BTW, does anybody know how far the Bryston 7B SST will go in Class A before switching over to AB?)

Peter

[SpOoNmAn]

I believe its 25 watts in Class A, might be 30

Ill buy anything regardless of wheres its manufactured, made, assembled, as long as its nice and the price is right.


:T

:E

:P

8)

[nicholtl]

What, you don't like Parasound Amps? :B :lol: :lol:

Haha of course I do, I was just saying if I had the option to upgrade, where I'd go from Parasound.

[Peter Nielsen]

I wont keep arguing why I like Bryston better. You keep your Parasounds, as I will mine, for a while longer

Yes, I bought my JC1s to keep for the next 20 years.

FYI: Bryston 7B SST weighs 50 lbs net. Parasound JC1 weighs 68 lbs net. I'm mentioning this because of your claim that Bryston's "build quality" is better. What build quality? Personally I'm questioning what corners Bryston cut in order to shave off those 18 pounds? (Mind you, these companies are not building a Corvette Z06 where we pay $$$ for reduced weight...)

Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

Haha of course I do, I was just saying if I had the option to upgrade, where I'd go from Parasound.

:agree:

However, that of course depend on what you REALLY mean with the word "upgrade". Maybe just "upgrading" to another brand will give the feeling of getting something newer and better... though technically it really isn't an upgrade. Maybe just the change in itself will feel like a major upgrade to some people...

Peter

[SpOoNmAn]

I think someones bored

[Peter Nielsen]

....

[SpOoNmAn]

I chose whom to have discussions with
...

:rofl:

[Chris D]

:roll: Okay, moving right along...

[nicholtl]

I have an itch. Can someone scratch it for me?

[Peter Nielsen]

....

[SpOoNmAn]

I like to ride, and I like to ride fast. If I wanted to fix my bike, and have it vibrate when Im on it, Id get a Hardley. When I decide to get a cruiser, it'll be a Honda Shadow, and then a Goldwing. But thats years off

Ive had 7 Hondas in my lifetime of riding and thats not about to change.

and Im buying an 05 'vette if funds allow(and if I can get my color). I dont like the black one at the dealer.


:B

[whoaru99]

Well, I like my new, used Levinson No. 23.

Build quality? +100 lbs for 200 w/ch stereo amp.

Actually, in comparison, my Yamaha M-80 is not too far behind although I'd suspect the No. 23 would seriously outshine it if I had some speakers that were difficult to drive.

[Chris D]

Guys, take it down a notch... now. We have a long standing standard here in Club Parasound and at the Guide in general in being able to discuss things rationally without childish fighting.

[SpOoNmAn]

I see this board offers no Ignore feature.

so how ya been Chris :T

[whoaru99]

Apologies to anyone I offended - unfortunately a bad day at work made it home with me. Was kind of in a fightin' mood and I came across the "next...." challenge and, well, the rest is history.

Again, my humble apologies.

Best regards,
Todd

[will1066]

Why did the original poster feel compelled to post what he posted in Club Parasound? The post has all the makings of a flame bait.

[nicholtl]

The better question is, where did he go after starting this thread?

[NMyTree]

All I know is this.

Rotel makes some nice gear.

But before I owned the Halo A21, I NEVER heard anyone say the Halo A21 was harsh, bright or caused them any listening fatigue. In fact, the exact opposite.

To a man, everyone always described the Halo gear (including the A21) as powerful, smooth, sweet, clear and detailed; a very pleasurable and enjoyable listening experience.......even after several hours of continous listening.

Of course we all know room acoustics, source components, speakers...etc, play a HUGE role in shaping the sound.

The Halo A21 did not come across as described by mmpeak, when I first heard it at my old buddy's house in New Jersey. We listened for quite some time as I visted him for three days. Never a harsh moment or note.

Swwweeeeeet.

[NMyTree]

By the way mmpeak,

Odyssey (Klaus) makes some real nice gear and wonderful speakers. Too bad you don't enjoy them.

Oh well.......to each his own.

[Chris D]

Well, yes, the original post had aspects of a flame bait, but it wasn't obvious. As I've said before, I very much welcome both positive and negative information about Parasound and the products here in the Club. That helps people make informed decisions, so I generally give a little latitude.

[mmpeak]

Hi Peoples, it's not a flame bait

The Rotel RB-1090 weighs in about 90 pounds. It's very heavy and takes
two to pick it up, or if you don't want to break your back!
It gives one the idea of the quality build into it as well.

"NMyTree", I never said Klaus didn't make nice gear! Klaus makes some
excellent quality Odyssey products. No one can deny the value Klaus
gives with his build quality! The outside quality of the Odyssey Stratos
Mono Extreme was very robust and impressive. I've never heard any of his
speakers but read a couple of good reviews about them.

Now, Odyssey gets some rave reviews by many people. This doesn't mean
because I found the Rotel RB-1090 to my liking over-all, doesn't mean I
didn't enjoy the Odyssey. I did like it, it just wasn't my final choice.
"The Absolute Sound" did a review on the Odyssey, Rotel, and B&K. Their
over-all pick was the Rotel RB-1090 but the reviewers also did like the
Odyssey too. It wasn't meant to be a put down to Odyssey. I just couldn't
understand all the rave reviews for it compared to Rotel's. The Rotel
RB-1090 is sort of like a hidden jewel though. Odyssey is a very good
amp. The Odyssey sounds great with Wharfedale Opus-2 speakers, but not
so great with my other speakers. Any amp has it's plus and minus, or so
I'm learning with comparing in more detail now.

All our ears and equipment is different, you might choose the Odyssey or
any other make for that matter, to the liking of your ears. That's why
it's nice to have so many different makes to choose from that best fits
your likings, oh and to your equipment, as I'm learning!

My original post about the Rotel RB-1090 was just to help any one that
might be in the same situation when I was looking and reading. I read
a lot of guys here pretty much saying that Parasound was much better than
Rotel. I looked away from Rotel and then I found it was not so cut and
dry as some guys here like to make one think and I made a costly mistake
by influence that Parasound was the way to go. That was my fault like
I said and blame no one but myself for not comparing Rotel into the
picture during the time. If I can help someone keep in mind that only
yourself can make that choice without putting too much belief in
others influence, to keep in mind to try even what others say isn't good,
and find out for yourself.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
*Why did the original poster feel compelled to post what he posted in Club Parasound? The post has all the makings of a flame bait.*
---------------------------------------------------------------------

"Will1066", it was NOT meant to be a flame bait and is not that at all,
I explained in my original post it was to help others keep in mind that
you can't just listen to say, like I did, or it could be a costly mistake
as it was for me. It's to be helpful, not flame. I see it much different
than you do, I guess? Maybe I should have left brand names out of the post
not to get some sensitive here but I didn't even think of that at the time.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
*The better question is, where did he go after starting this thread?*
---------------------------------------------------------------------

"nicholtl", I've been listening to music. I don't get on the computer
that much when I'm listening to music in the evenings after work, to relax
and enjoy the music! Actually it's got me spending less time on the
computer now, maybe that is a good thing!

"NMyTree", yes - I do think a lot has to do with speakers and different
equipment together that can give different results! I agree with you
very much with that. I think that is way we need to keep that in mind.
Amps and speakers are important to team up right. Looking in the Rotel
forum, I actually read a guy's post saying the same about the Rotel RB-1090
being a little harsh or bright, or that it seemed to him. I don't have
that at all with mine, it's very smooth, but we aren't running the same
equipment or speakers. I'm realizing as I learn audio that this is very
important as why we each get different results. I've had a lot of guys
telling me this on the forums and local audio stores. These are important
things I'm learning from others that I now have to keep in mind. I'm
learning, so now when I read some people's results being so different
from my own..... I now know to keep in mind the differences in equipment
and speakers. Not something I really thought about before!

"Chris D", it WAS NOT MEANT AS FLAME BAIT !!! I don't see what is
wrong with helping others out as how I went about things, just to keep
in mind, as I didn't. I admit my writing is hard for me to put into
words some times of how to explain things but I was trying to help others
like myself, not to flame any one. I think most you guys are right that
it all boils down to different equipment, giving different results.
Maybe some times we don't think about this (I didn't) and think it will
be the same for every one using it. Maybe audio is more complicated
than I thought!

Anyway, I am really enjoying listening to music at night and that's
a good thing to relax to. Every one enjoy and thanks for some of the
great help you've pass on to me.

[NMyTree]

mmpeak, you own the Wharfedale Opus 2 and you have Odyssey amps powering them? Or have you heard this matchup?

[mmpeak]

Yes, I have a pair of the Wharfedale Opus-2, it's in the Mahogany high-gloss piano finish. Looks nice. I'm not running the Odyssey on them, but tried it when we were comparing them. Sounds very nice with the Odyssey. My only complaint with the Wharfedale is the speaker grill could be a little better but most speakers seem to have these plastic kinds now.

[NMyTree]

Wow, another Wharfedale Opus 2 owner! :T

When you say Mahogany, I'm guessing you mean the Rosewood gloss finish, right? Unless, Wharfedale had a limited special edition of Mahogany for the Opus 2, which I didn't hear about.

I just picked up my Opus 2 in Piano Black Gloss ( as well as a Opus Center Channel...same finish), last week. Haven't set it up yet, as I'm doing some work on the Living Room.

Would you mind telling me what you're powering the Opus 2 with? Is it the Rotel Rotel RB-1090?

Would you mind telling me what source components, Pre Amp, speaker cable, interconnects and so forth you are using with the Opus 2?

I had intially planned on using the Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes with the Opus 2. But I do plan on doing some mixing and matching of amps, Pre Amps and so forth (which will include giving my Parasound Halo A21 a good running with the Opus 2), to try and get the best combination.

I also have the Quad 22L in my home office, which will also get a run with the Halo A21.

Did you try the Halo A21 with your Opus 2? If so, what was the set up and how was it?


Sorry, don't mean to bombard you with questions, but it's rare to find someone with the Opus 2, so I want to get an idea of what people's experiences are with them.

Got any pics of your Opus 2? I'd love to see them. I'll have some pics ....sometime over the next two weeks.

[NMyTree]

....and you're right about the grills. They are cheap and the little pegs break really easy.

But everything else is excellent.

[mmpeak]

I really like the Wharfedale Opus, every thing is excellent
quality on it, except the grills but it actually looks better
without the grills..... well to me any way. I like how
Wharfedale continued the wood around each speaker frame, other
speakers I've had didn't do that.

It is rosewood that I have. I keep calling it Mahogany because
it looks like that to me. I have a rosewood hutch that is like
a light brown and a table that is mahogany that has the same
dark reddish brown that the Wharfedale looks like. I'm glad
it's the dark reddish brown though, I like it better and looks
really classy. I originally wanted the black piano gloss but
he didn't have it in stock and I would have to wait about a
month to get it in. I was thinking black, just in case if I
ever get a baby grand piano I've been wanting that's black.
Probably won't happen with how much those keep going up.

I'm running a Ayre amp and pre-amp with the Wharfedale Opus-2 speakers.
It goes well with it, sounds much like the Odyssey to me, except
the Odyssey sounds more to the cool side than the Ayre.
It's the only used pieces I have but I got a really good deal
on it from a guy that sold every thing in his house because
he was moving to Hawaii and said it was too expensive to have
it all shipped out there so he was going to start over when
he got there, he got some big promotion from his work. So I
bought the Ayre equipment from him since he gave me it way
lower than even used price for it, but he was running
out of time to get to Hawaii.


I'm running the Rotel RB-1090 with the 1989 Klipshorn speakers and
the sound is so stunning with what the Rotel does for it.

But, this is what I've learned, and what people been telling me.
I was so excited about the Rotel RB-1090 and was thinking maybe
one for the Wharfedale, so I hooked the Rotel RB-1090 up to the
Wharfedale and I have to say I was kind of disappointed, the
sonic signature seems to change than what the Rotel does for the
Klipschorns. I don't know why. I think that maybe the Wharfedale
warmer sound with Rotel's slight warm amp might make the two
together a little too warm? I'm not sure but I think that is what
I'm hearing, anyway that is how it is to me, I don't think those
two goes as well together as the Klipsch and Rotel. The Odyssey
didn't go too well with the Klipschorns though when I tried that.
I think because the Odyssey is on the cooler side and the Klipschorns
need some warmth to it that the Rotel gives. I think that is what
I'm hearing between them. But this is what I don't understand, my
friend runs his Rotel RB-1090 with the B&W Nautilus 803 speakers and
it sounds fantastic with them, and the guy at the audio store told me
that Wharfedale competes with B&W and has the same excellent vocal
reproduction, that they both are well known for. So I'm confused
about it now, wonder if it's the room. I think I will try it in
another room and see if it sounds different.

I didn't get to try the Parasound A21 with the Wharfedales. I haven't had
these all that long. I talked my brotherinlaw into buying my
Paradigm speakers and I went back to the audio store and bought
these Opus-2 before the 1-week sale was up. I had to have them
after hearing them and seeing how beautiful it looks. It looks
like a piece of paino furniture, and Wharfedale wired the inside
with the big thick monster cable too. I love the multi-coating
high gloss on it too. Wharfedale really did an excellent job and
looks even better than my friends B&W 803 case! I like having the
two systems to go between since it gives me different sounds for
what mood you are in. The Wharfedales are very relaxing and sweet
and the Klipshorns come out and eat you with the music. Only way
I can think of to describe them.

Anyway, I'll take some pictures of the Wharfedales for you and come
back here and post it.

[mmpeak]

Wharfedale Opus-2 pictures

Here ya go

[NMyTree]

Thanks mmpeak!

The Rosewood is indeed a beautiful finish.....lovely.

What source component (CD Player or Turntable) are you using with the Opus 2?

What Ayre Pre Amp and Amp are you using, the K-5x and V-5x?

I'll be picking up the K-5x Pre Amp and the CX-7 CD Player, to match up with the Opus 2. I would like the Ayre V-5x amp, but that will take much longer to save for.

I'm going to have three systems in my house. My Audio/HT system in the Living Room (Opus 2), my strictly Audio 2 channel/5.1 (DVD-Audio and SACD) system in my home office (Quad 22L), and a bedroom system (Odyssey Nightingales).

So you see, I'll be mixing, matching and trying different combinations with the Opus 2 and the Quad 22L. I'm also going to pick up the Lector CDP 7T and Lector ZOE Pre Amp, which are also Zero Feedback designs. I will also throw them into the mix with the Opus 2 and Quad 22L; mix and match and see what combo sounds the best with what speakers. I imagine I will be able to set up some good combos with this gear, and get the sound I want.

Of course there are also some Parasound components on my list, such as the Halo C2 Pre/Pro for HT/Audio, the new Halo P2 Pre Amp for multi-channel music in my home office; and one or two other Halo pieces.

Certainly, it will take some time to pick up all of these pieces. One or two pieces of gear at a time.....steadily moving along :B

[NMyTree]

mmpeak,

Just my opinion, but I'm thinking you may have your Opus 2 a wee bit too close to that wall and the dresser.

I would probably bring them out a little bit more and put some nice thick curtains on that window. Just my opinion.

[mmpeak]

Thanks....

Well, shame the pictures didn't come out as nice as they really look!
I think I need a new digital camera, this one doesn't do that good of
quality since it's an old one now.

I have two Rotel RCD-1072 (CD Player) so using one on each system. I've been happy with
them, comparing them to a Sony and a Panasonic I have..... I can really
hear a difference. Much better detail, wider sound, and defined, going
to Sony or Panasonic really makes them sound dull and narrow compared
to the Rotel. I didn't think there would be that big of a difference
before but I learned I was wrong. I used to think mass market CD player
would be just as good I'm learning!

I have the Ayre K-5 and V-5. It seems like it has a way of focusing in
to the voice and instruments, the Odyssey kind of does it that way too.
I don't even know how to really describe it but it's different in that
kind of way.

Wow, nice to have three systems!! I better watch it or I might do the
same thing. It gets really confusing how to figure it all out between
equipment, atleast it's kind of hard for me, I don't think I want to
take anymore on, but I keep finding myself looking and wondering at
more. Some guys seem to figure things out with equipment fast but for
me, it takes me a while to try and figure out the difference after
listening for long periods.

I was thinking that too, that I have the speakers too close to the
dresser after I read an article that the speakers should have room
all the way around them. I'll have to pick a different room to set
them up that has more room. Thanks for reminding me!

Good luck with it all, I know you will have fun !!

[Chris D]

mmpeak, quite the opposite, hang around here for a while! You'll find that I encourage all Club members to post the experiences and (respectfully) their opinions about equipment, Parasound and otherwise, both good and bad. That way everyone can make the best decisions for themselves. I think your posts are fine, thanks for posting and hang around!

[NMyTree]

mmpeak,

The pictures are good enough to get an idea of the finish, and it certainly appears to be stunning.


I just want to take a moment to thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with the Opus 2. Thank you!

Your comments have been helpful and I appreciate the time and effort you put in.

Thanks again.

P.S. Don't be a stranger :B :B :T

[mmpeak]

NMyTree, Thank you for your kindness! Thanks for all your help
too.