Does firmware 2.26 really fix popping

[maddog]

Hello,

I have an RSX-1055 with the speaker popping bug when changing sources and surround modes. I installed firmware 2.26, which is supposed to fix this popping bug. However, it did not. In fact, it had no effect on the popping in my system whatsoever. The full version of the firmware that I have installed on my system, which is displayed when I hold down the Mute button for a few seconds, is 2.2.6_030704.

Has anyone who has an RSX-1055 with the speaker popping installed firmware 2.26? If so, did it fix the speaker popping in your system?

Please respond to this post only if you have an RSX-1055 with the popping bug and have installed firmware 2.26. I am not interested in claims or propaganda. I am just interested in the results of real-world users. Thank you in advance.

[jk@home]

Boy, their knockin down the door on this one, heh?

Yes, I own a 1055. Yes, I installed the new firmware, for the very same reason, and NO it "may" not.

That being said let me clarify. I am using my unit as a pre/pro for the front/center channels, and the built in amps for the rears. After the upgrade, the center and rears did stop popping, but the L/R did not.

I am outputting the L/R signals, along with the center signal of the Rotel into the bypass input of a Sony TAP preamp. The L/R then go to a Jensen balancing tranny, which in turn drives long balanced, cables to an Aragon 8008BB amp. So... there may be a grounding issue there, right now I am just ignoring it.

When I use my DVD/SACD player and the Sony TAP, bypassing the Rotel, no pops. When I switch over to the input of the Rotel on the Sony, pop! And when I play a movie on same player, I get pops whenever the signal is clocking in. Pretty sure it's the Rotel, and if not resolvable, pretty disappointing!

[maddog]

I don't think that 2.26 fixes the popping.

If it does, then why are there no posts like "Popping Fixed!!!" (or something to that effect) on this forum? Although there have not been many recent threads on this issue, there were a couple very lengthy ones on it back in June and July. So, there are plenty of people who frequent this forum who have had this problem and who would have been very happy to have it fixed and who most likely would have wanted to spread the news with a post.

In fact, I may have been one of the first, if not the first, to install 2.26 on my system. I contacted Rotel back in the beginning of July about this issue. Their customer support was very polite and very quick to respond. I sent them a detailed description of the scenarios that produce the popping. They then sent me firmware 2.26 as a fix for the popping. I installed it, but it did not fix the popping. I then informed them of this. At that point I just figured that it was just something to live with. No real big deal. The pops were relatively small (as long as the volume was low) and they never occurred during a song. Only when switching something.

I was willing to let the whole thing slide. But now, I see that they are actually claiming that firmware 2.26 fixes the popping, when it certainly did not on my system and there is absolutely no evidence that it did on this forum or anywhere else. It's one thing to say that we have a bug that we do not have a fix for yet. But, it is a whole other thing to say that we fixed it, when they have not. That is what has me perturbed.

Moreover, I am not so sure this bug is a software issue at all. Especially the way it is so inconsistent. It pops with a button press (e.g., surround mode change), then it does not the next time that button is pressed, it pops from the front L&R speakers, and then it pops from the back speakers. In someways it looks like a charge is accumulating and then needs to be discharged. Of course, I am not an electrical engineer; but, I would be surprised if the root cause of this popping is software and not hardware.

Once again, I have learned to live with the popping. But the claim that 2.26 fixes it is going too far, because it certainly does not in my system. Disappointment definitely describes my sentiment also.

[jk@home]

Yes, I don't feel it is a software problem either, but the use of crappy digital switchers, or the lack of certain electronics that would mask the problem. I get the noise whenever the unit has to "lock" on to a digital signal. The only other pre/pro that I have read has this problem is the $125 cheapo Klipsch unit (http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=433), designed for gaming surround. If the present design was picked for the best sonic performance, disregarding the popping noise, Rotel should come clean and admit it.

I know for a fact that my center and rear speakers do not pop now, and that they did before the 'upgrade". How are you using your unit, (i.e. as a receiver or pre/pro)? Since my outboard center channel amp, a Marantz MA500 mono block, is different from the Aragon, there is a possibility that this problem is dependent on associated equipment design.

I found this forum after I purchased my unit, and do appreciate the info that has been given out regarding the upgrade. Made my own cable from R.S. parts, and installed the firmware myself. BUT, I feel the majority of the "upgrades" are nothing more than Band-Aid fixes that should have been taken care of during R&D, before the unit was even put on the market! To me, an upgrade would be the addition of a new surround mode, or the replacement of improved electronics. I feel Rotel has treated me like a beta tester, to work out the bugs of their unit, so they could get it on the market sooner. I have read that this occurs with other manufacturers as well, guess it's a sign of the times.... Sorry for the rant, I feel better now.

Other than the popping, I am quite happy with the unit, as a H.T. pre/pro (Of course the most important thing about a preamp is the ability to remain invisible, so I would not recommend this unit be used as such). The surround quality is better than what I was using before, which was the internal decoders of my Sony DVD/SACD player. I purchased the Rotel over the competition mainly due to ability to manual control as many functions as possible via the front panel (I hate digging though menus with a remote), which makes it more family friendly. But when I finally get to separate my music from my H.T. system, the Rotel will be left behind for movie playback only. And the great thing about picking a receiver over something like the 1066 pre/pro is when it is time to upgrade again; I will still have something that I can use in a secondary system. Unlike my old Sony TAE1000ES, which is obsolete (but with NO POPS!) and sitting in my attic...

[jk@home]

"it looks like a charge is accumulating and then needs to be discharged. Of course, I am not an electrical engineer; but, I would be surprised if the root cause of this popping is software and not hardware."

Like I mentioned before, I have the Rotel feeding into the analog 5.1 bypass inputs of a Sony TAP9000ES, which has remote control for the input switching. When I rapidly switch between input #1 and bypass, the popping reduces in level with each following command. When I wait a few seconds between switching, I get the same level of pop...I agree that it is some sort of discharge, maybe the manufactuer/moderator can now speak....

[maddog]

I am just using the 1055 as an A/V receiver. No external amp. I too have found that the popping appears to be sensitive to the type of external equipment. Although, I have been through the whole process of disconnecting each component one by one to see if a particular component was the root cause. The result was that the Rotel still popped.

From reading the reviews of receivers from other manufacturers, it does appear that all of the ones in the 1055's price range with good sound have one problem or another. In fact, that's one of the reasons why I kept the Rotel; i.e., since problems seem to be just part of the deal.

Aside from the popping, the time delay at the beginning of a CD or DVD when the Rotel is trying to determine it's format (e.g., 44.1 kHz vs. HDCD), and the poor placement of the L&R speaker terminals for any type of connectors other than bananas, I too am pleased with the Rotel's features and sound. It also has a very good tuner for an A/V receiver, and I do like it's RR-1050 remote control.

As I stated above, I am over the popping issue. What caught my attention was that they are claiming that 2.26 "Eliminated popping sound heard during DSP and Digital mode transitions", when it has not in my system and I do not see any other posts on this forum of people stating that it has in their system. So, I just thought that I would post this thread to see if anyone actually has had their popping fixed with the upgrade to firmware 2.26. In fact, when I first posted this, I did not notice that Rotel claims that the most recent firmware fixes the popping in the 1065 and in their separate preamps as well. So, I would be interested in results from those users as well.

You appear to have a little more knowledge about audio electronics than I do. If you have some insight or some questions that you would like Rotel to answer, you might want to send their tech support an e-mail about it. Although they could not solve this problem in my system, their tech support is very polite and they usually respond to your e-mails quickly. Maybe you will have more success than I did.

[jk@home]

What I have dug up so far on the web is that Rotel uses mechanical switches for digital selection, which are said to be acoustically superior, but will sometimes make the popping noise.

In order to fix this problem, the firmware upgrade installs a slight delay, which will reduce or eliminate the popping.

But, the problem is also equipment related, in that certain digital sources/signals will respond better to this fix than others. That would explain why some users have this problem, others do not. I have read that the Sony players do well with this (I have a DVP-NC650V) I just hope when I pick out a HD-STB unit, I don’t run into more problems.

On my system, if I manually turn off only my Aragon amp, and leave the other separate and built in amps on, I get no pops. So I am going to play with different grounding schemes and gain levels between the Rotel and Aragon.

I guess there is a possibility that your firmware upgrade did not load the time delay properly, or that your digital source is not synching properly. As far as the time delay issue, one fellow stated that if he turned off the rear center signal (which he wasn't using) the digital selector would act more quickly.

I found at least a dozen past threads on this forum dealing with this issue, with some posters actually proclaiming that they were dumping their units due to the problem. I would think that a fair and balanced explanation of the time delay/popping issue would be an excellent addition to the FAQ.

How about it Andrew?

[Andrew Pratt]

I would think that a fair and balanced explanation of the time delay/popping issue would be an excellent addition to the FAQ.

How about it Andrew?

If you want to draft something I'd be more then happy to add it. I've never had any popping so I'd rather someone with first hand experience write the explanation.

[maddog]

Thanks for that research, JK. The info on the mechanical switches was very informative.

I am pretty certain that the full install of firmware 2.26 completed successfully. There were no errors during the download, the correct firmware version shows in the Rotel display, and every other feature in that firmware upgrade in now available on my Rotel.

As far as 2.26 not having "any effect whatsoever" on the popping is concerned, it may have affected it in some ways in some scenarios. But, the bottom line is that it still pops when changing surround modes and sources, which is what Rotel claims 2.26 "eliminates". Of course, it also pops when changing channels on my digital cable box when the digital audio connection is used, it sometimes pops (sometimes loudly) when navigating menus on a DVD, and there are small pops inbetween tracks on CDs when a digital coaxial connection is used. However, Rotel does not claim that these are fixed in firmware 2.26. So, I am not complaining about them here.

If your research is correct, it sounds like the firmware fix is really just a software "workaround" for a problem that is rooted in hardware and/or hardware design, which is what I suspected. I mean, it's not like the popping is because of a software bug and if that software bug was fixed, it would be gone completely.

Perhaps part of the problem is that my last A/V receiver (a $400 Onkyo in the same exact setup with the same exact sources) did not pop at all. Perhaps the Onkyo did not pop because it did not use mechanical switches, used better mechanical switches, or used them in a better overall hardware design. I really don't know. So, maybe I am expecting too much from a product using mechanical switches the way that the Rotel does.

Anyway, I agree that the information that you (JK) present above would be a very good addition to a FAQ section. Although, I doubt that the admission of potential popping would help sales.

[jk@home]

"Anyway, I agree that the information that you (JK) present above would be a very good addition to a FAQ section. Although, I doubt that the admission of potential popping would help sales. "

Only problem is the info I dug up was from various post on this and other forums, with no way to vertify. The best FAQ explanation should come from Rotel service, who deal with this problem on a daily basis, but like you said, that may be conceived as a admission. I found reviews/reports of other units with the same problem (and fix), such as NAD and Anthem, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[italia]

Here is my experience...

I am using the 1055 as an a/v receiver like yourself and when I purchased it new about three weeks ago it had ver. 2.25 and it popped all over the place. Uploaded to 2.26 and it fixed it.

[italia]

oops double post

[Azeke]

Sorry double post.

Azeke

[Azeke]

Italia,

Is it possible this could be software related?

What Operating System did you use to upload the firmware?

Was it a DIY cable or the manufacture's cable?

Just curious,

Azeke

[italia]

Italia,

Is it possible this could be software related?

What Operating System did you use to upload the firmware?

Was it a DIY cable or the manufacture's cable?

Just curious,

Azeke

Don't know... Uploaded via Windows XP on a Sony VAIO Desktop using the supplied manufacture's cable.

[Azeke]

Thanks Italia for your expenditious response.

Any other comments for firmware 2.26 forum members, we just need to ensure it is not a software or cable issue.

Any feedback we be appreciated.

Regards,

Azeke

[maddog]

Italia, are saying that before you upgraded to 2.26 you had popping when switching surround modes and sources? Are you also saying that 2.26 COMPLETELY eliminated this popping. So, now when you go near your speakers you do not hear ANY popping from it's tweeters when switching surround modes or input sources?

Azeke, do you have a 1055 that had popping, then istalled 2.26, and now do not have ANY of that popping? Also, just FYI, I used a cable sent to me by Rotel. As I explained in my earlier posts, I am pretty certain that the firmware upgrade completed successfully. It just did not eliminate the popping in my system.

[italia]

Italia, are saying that before you upgraded to 2.26 you had popping when switching surround modes and sources? Are you also saying that 2.26 COMPLETELY eliminated this popping. So, now when you go near your speakers you do not hear ANY popping from it's tweeters when switching surround modes or input sources?

Yes, it COMPLETELY elminated popping when switching surround modes and sources. I have not put my ear next to the speakers, but I simply do not hear it anymore. For all intensive purposes it is gone. It used to pop all over the place, especially when switching chapters in a DVD or going in and out of the menu screen - i.e. where the volume was turned up rather high . Seriously, if the firmware would have not corrected the popping I would have considered returning it. Here I would be showing off the system and the popping would just about spoil all the fun. It was that obnoxious and simply not justifiable for a product of this quality to leave the factory with such an obvious defect. But thankfully the firmware upgrade corrected this. That being said, I will hear a pop every now and again when I turn the system completely off.

[maddog]

Thank you for responding, italia. I sounds like you had the same type of popping that I had and still do have. In fact, I did not even know that 2.26 was supposed to fix the popping when navigating DVD menus. So far, it looks like 2.26 fixes the popping in your system and it fixes it partially in JK's system and maybe completely if he rearranges his hardware setup. Not sure why it's not fixing things in my system. In fact, if I disconnect all sources and just listen to the radio, it still pops when changing surround modes and sources (even though no other sources exist). Maybe it's a complex interaction between hardware and software, and in my system, the hardware does not quite meet the quality-control standards that it does in yours. I really don't know. I just know that I installed 2.26 and it still pops.

[Stevebez]

I just upgraded to 2.26 on my 1066 last nite ... and maybe its just me imagining things but all the popping issues I had before when switching across sur modes are gone! Phew!

[jk@home]

I fixed mine; well at least the popping is now almost inaudible. I bypassed my balancing transformer with a couple of diy RCA to XLR interconnects, feeding an unbalanced signal to my Aragon. Thing is, I'm using electronic balancing to my center amp with no problem. Now for the permanent fix...?

Maddog...since my pops are now to the point where one has to be real close to the drivers to hear; I am wondering what is the sensitivity of your speakers? I'm using Thiels and Def. Techs, with average to maybe a little low on the sensitivity scale. Of course the pops weren't volume dependent, so I'm not sure if this is an issue.

[maddog]

JK, the specs for my speakers state 90 dB for the efficiency. But, it sounds like 2.26 completely eliminated the popping in italia's and Stevebez's systems, as opposed to just making it lower. Anyway, at this point, I think that I may have just gotten a lemon.

[Whistler]

The firmware I use is the 2.26 I never had any problems with popping, and I am sure I am not deaf. So maby it's more then just a software problem.




The Mainframe

[Azeke]

Maddog,

I did not own the 1055, but I did own the 1066. The firmware upgrade minimized the popping, but did not eliminate altogether. I now own the RSP-1098 and I am experiencing popping issues when switching DSP's, esp, when switiching from DPL to DD/DTS. I am awaiting the software upgrade to see if this problem can be rectified. I believe the software provides mute time delays when switching DSP's.

Regards.

Azeke

[maddog]

Thanks for that information, Azeke. Let us know how it goes with the 1098.