rotel rsx-1056 background hiss noise

[dakahuna3]

hello everybody, I was getting ready to make the rotel rsx-1056 receiver my first purchase in my first home theatre rig. I have read that this model has hiss noise that several owners could not tolerate. Just how bad is this noise? Has rotel eliminated the problem? thanks, dakahuna3

[Ocelot]

The hiss they are talking about is when you are in 2 channel mode, you can hear a slight hiss from the rears and center.
I have a 1056, and yes there is some hiss, but its not really noticable, and only when in 2 channel stereo mode.

[dakahuna3]

rotel 1056 hiss noise

hello ocelot,

thanks for the info. I am pretty much sold on the rotel 1056. I don't want to pay the cost of separates. I have heard that the performance of the1056 is close to Rotel entry level separates. What do you think? Drop me a line if you can. thanks! dakahuna3 (dennis carroll)

[mtodde]

I have had my 1056 for a couple of weeks now and have found myself listening to so much more music! I plan to add a 1075 amp down the road and use the 1056 as a pre. Right now my source is a Denon DVD-2900 which I love. I got my new speakers (Paradigm Reference Studios) the other day...and I'm in heaven...listening to Mingus Ah Um on SACD as I type.

I say this with my fingers crossed and after knocking on wood...I have no issues with hissing on any of the channels.

I highly recommend the 1056.

[Kens1]

I have the 1056 as well. First unit had clicking and popping noise (no hiss at all) so I returned it. Second unit has no issues at all. This is the best receiver I have ever owned. As said above you will be listening to a lot more music!

I also just added the 1080 to power the fronts and it makes it even sweeter. The 1056 alone is still very good musically. You forget how good music can sound when you've had mass market home theater recievers for so long.
You won't regret it especially for the price.

[Kirby]

The mass market receivers do not add the additional hiss so maybe thats why they don't sound so good?????? The 1056 in 2 channel bypass has hiss that you can hear from 12 ft away and it comes from the centre and rear channels. The 1056 is a great unit otherwise but very disappointing that the cannot mute the centre and rear channels in 2 channel. I now have a Denon 3805 and the sound is very good and the unit is dead quiet.

[shadow]

The mass market receivers do not add the additional hiss so maybe thats why they don't sound so good?????? The 1056 in 2 channel bypass has hiss that you can hear from 12 ft away and it comes from the centre and rear channels. The 1056 is a great unit otherwise but very disappointing that the cannot mute the centre and rear channels in 2 channel. I now have a Denon 3805 and the sound is very good and the unit is dead quiet.

Your experience is too bad but hardly universal. I have no noise with my Rotel. BTW, had the 3805 for a day at home before I got the 1056. Never considered the Denon again.

[phuz]

Hiss? What hiss?

Ok so my 1056 has a hiss, but only when I turn the volume up to 80 with no music playing!

Seriously, all manufacturers have a few problem units here and there. Odds are you won't get one. If you do, take it back and get another. You won't be disappointed.

[Elvis]

The 1056 units all hiss from all speakers even in 2ch mode at ANY volume from the first to last number.Its still a great unit,better than the dead quiet Denon but a facts a fact.

[astravitz]

I own the RSX-1065 & RX-1052. I find both the units to be dead silent. This is one area that Rotel seems to get very right on my gear. I once owned an Arcam AVR100 that had a very noticable hiss. I'm not an expert in this area, but I beleive it can be caused by a "ground loop." That's why many audiophiles buy a single power conditioner and plug all their gear into it, including digital sources and TV. All Arcam units I've seen have a "lift" switch in the back to try and eliminate this problem, but that's also because they seem more prone to this problem.

The worst unit I ever owned was a Harmon Kardon that really hissed. Part of the reason I've stepped up over the years to Rotel was to avoid these types of problems. Perhaps others know better ways of eliminating "ground loops", but my RSX-1065 is dead silent and is a similiar and older unit.
--------------------------------------------------------
http://nyclife.com/rotel/

[Elvis]

A ground loop is a 60hz hum,hum only,often caused by cable/sat hook up to system or tv connected to system.A hiss has nothing to do w/ground loops or external power supplies and all the conditiong in the world can't stop a pre/pro from hissing.I still love the 1056 but the rear and center should be MUTED(no way to hiss) when in 2ch or bypass mode,thats really my only complaint but its legit.

[NewBuyer]

I agree, the RSX-1056 hiss issue does in fact exist. I recently bought an RSX-1056 after reading about it here and elsewhere. It really is an outstanding receiver! However, the hiss was definitely apparent. I simply cannot explain why some other owners wouldn't hear it - but I suppose it is perhaps possible that people's hearing sensitivities are different. In my case the hiss was very easily audible though...

I also agree that the hiss issue is not a ground loop problem. Ground loop causes 60hz hum, which is something entirely different from hiss. This hum does occur, in my experience, when the 1056 is used with an external 1075 amplifier - apparently due to a difference in grounding potential between the components (they are after all both 2-pronged floated ground power cord units) and not from any other ground loop source.

The hum can be controlled, but the hiss is inherent to the product I believe. It may also be much lessened if your speaker tweeters are not extremely effecient, but I'm just speculating with that one.

Kirby and Elvis, so are you saying that the Denon AVR-3805 is really dead quiet? If so, then using it as a pre-pro with a separate amplifier like the 1075 seems like it would be a truly excellent combination - do you (or others) agree?

[shadow]

I agree, the RSX-1056 hiss issue does in fact exist. I recently bought an RSX-1056 after reading about it here and elsewhere. It really is an outstanding receiver! However, the hiss was definitely apparent. I simply cannot explain why some other owners wouldn't hear it - but I suppose it is perhaps possible that people's hearing sensitivities are different. In my case the hiss was very easily audible though...

I also agree that the hiss issue is not a ground loop problem. Ground loop causes 60hz hum, which is something entirely different from hiss. This hum does occur, in my experience, when the 1056 is used with an external 1075 amplifier - apparently due to a difference in grounding potential between the components (they are after all both 2-pronged floated ground power cord units) and not from any other ground loop source.

The hum can be controlled, but the hiss is inherent to the product I believe. It may also be much lessened if your speaker tweeters are not extremely effecient, but I'm just speculating with that one.

Kirby and Elvis, so are you saying that the Denon AVR-3805 is really dead quiet? If so, then using it as a pre-pro with a separate amplifier like the 1075 seems like it would be a truly excellent combination - do you (or others) agree?

Well no, the Denon does not sound as good as the Rotel so even if you have a little hiss it still sounds worse whether used as a receiver or preamp. I tried them both that way as well as a receiver and kept my 1056. YMMV

[Elvis]

For starters Newbuyer is well informed.Shadow is correct however,the pre/pro in the Denon does not sound as good as the pre/pro of the 1056.I owned the 3805 and would rather have the 1056 anyday,regardless of amp or the fact Rotel rufuses to acknowledge or correct the hiss/muting channels(which has cost them more than they know).

[Kens1]

The only hiss I hear from my 1056 is when I am about an inch away from speakers no matter what the volume is. Every receiver I've ever owned does this - in fact a Kenwood I owned did this to extent I could hear this hiss from the speakers sitting about 9 feet away. With the 1056 I literally have to be an inch or closer to hear anything. I would say if you can hear a hiss from your speakers from your listening position the unit is defective and should be returned. I would not tolerate any audible hiss from my listening position especially for the price of the 1056.
My friends Denon 2 channel reciveir (early 90's) has the exact hiss I do from my speakers at an inch away also, but you can't hear his or mine from even a foot away.

[ds22030]

Anyone know if the 1068 processor does this hiss for the center and surrounds,...or does it mute these channels in 2 channel mode?

[Elvis]

The 1068 does not mute these channel either,but the good news is its only half as audible in the 1068.On the 1068 you would have to get much closer to the speakers to hear it and you could even claim the hiss is normal if it were not coming from all speakers in 2ch mode.

[ds22030]

Thanks Elvis...can you answer my Q regarding the 1068 v 1056 sound quality question in the other thread below (1056 v .....thread)? I dont think too many people have both units that they have played with together extensively so your insight is greatly appreciated.

[VGuarino]

I have had my 1056 for 6 months now and use 2 channel mode quite often. I've never heard any hiss. I'll probably hear it tonight now that I'm aware!

:-o

[RebelMan]

Okay people, I have seen this RSX-1056 hissing issue on more than one occasion. And, I actually heard it in my dealer's showroom. So it "can" exist, but it shouldn't. And this issue is NOT limited to the RSX-1056!!!

When my dealer and I observed this anomoly we went to visit his technician. According to the technician nine times out of ten the hissing is due to improper grounding. If you have ever been shocked by your equipment, then you have a grounding problem!

One of the things you can do to try and mitigate the hissing, is to see if you are mixing three-prong cords with "polarized" cords. If you are, then you should try and "float" the ground. This means, convert the three-prong cords to polarized ones, with the use of an approved adapter.

Do you have florescent lights near by? Are you using dimmer switches in the room? These can also affect proper grounding. Beyond all this you may actually have faulty capacitors, or the like, in the system. In which case you would need the support of your dealer or the manufacuturer.

[Elvis]

I have NEVER in my long life heard an electrical plug cause a hiss,a hum yes,there is a difference,thats why they are spelled different.You see a hiss goes sssssssssssss,like a snake.A hum goes hmmmmmmm like you are humming a tune,BIG difference.If a dealer tells you a hiss is caused by your plug,2,3 or 4 prong get a new dealer,wow.And unless your unit has a ground lift switch never "lift ground".

[RebelMan]

I have NEVER in my long life heard an electrical plug cause a hiss,a hum yes,there is a difference,thats why they are spelled different.You see a hiss goes sssssssssssss,like a snake.A hum goes hmmmmmmm like you are humming a tune,BIG difference.If a dealer tells you a hiss is caused by your plug,2,3 or 4 prong get a new dealer,wow.And unless your unit has a ground lift switch never "lift ground".

I guess there is a first time for everything.

Needless to say, I believe this thread started out on the issue of hissing, not humming. I don't dispute what was said about humming. My comments were about the hissing issues not humming.

Yes I know there is a difference between the two. But hissing is an electrical anomaly also. And one that can be effected by grounding issues. How do you know that hissing is not related to gounding issues? It may not be "exclusively" a grounding issue but it can be nonetheless.

Elvis do you own an RSX-1056? Does it hiss? Have you "actually" tried the suggestions I made to eliminate the hissing? Did it work? Does your room exhibit any of the other characteristics I mentioned?

I think a person needs to get to know and trust their dealer, and I do. If they are miss informed on a particular subject then that alone is not sufficient reason to leave. Until the advice of my dealer has been proven to be wrong, please keep your comments about switching dealers to yourself.

[Elvis]

Rebel,yes I own a 1056 and a 1068 and my good friend has been a Rotel dealer for many years.I would like to know where you get your"approved adaptor"to lift ground?

[merlock]

The mass market receivers do not add the additional hiss so maybe thats why they don't sound so good?????? The 1056 in 2 channel bypass has hiss that you can hear from 12 ft away and it comes from the centre and rear channels. The 1056 is a great unit otherwise but very disappointing that the cannot mute the centre and rear channels in 2 channel. I now have a Denon 3805 and the sound is very good and the unit is dead quiet.

I tried out the Denon 3805 as well. It didn't hold a candle to the 1056. I felt listener fatigue very quickly with it....I'd take the 1056 any day over. And I only hear hiss if I put my ears to the speakers.

merlock

[Andrew M Ward]

The Hisssss vs. The Hummmm

A Humm is typically related to grounds or the direct electrical source...
and
A hisss can be DC noise on the circuit board...
and
If you hear a Hummm it's probably your problem...
and
If you hear a Hissss it's probably the manufacturers problem...
and
None should be tolerated from the listening position if audible while listening to music at any volume...

just my 2 cents

[csuzor]

Andrew, with your experience and your 2 systems, can you really check to see if there is any hiss from either of your systems?
leave the audio source on, but not playing anything, turn up the volume 3/4 and listen closely to the speakers.
Your 1st system is similar to mine (Rotel + 70x), and I can hear hiss.
Of course, as you say >>None should be tolerated from the listening position if audible while listening to music at any volume...<< I agree, but I can't discern the hiss through the music, only with the audio source stopped.

Would be interesting to know if the Rotel hisses, but the Classe doesnt...

Thanks
Christophe

[Andrew M Ward]

CSUZOR, Yes I will

Christophe,
Sure, interesting enough, I have never tried doing that... I will do so this evening and report back to you.

Noise floor can be an important issue in critical listening, a subtle hiss would be an increase (however it is non-linear) in the noise floor.

But as we all know,

Vinyl has an astoundingly high noise floor and we tend to love it anyway...

Distortion Rules:
1). Noise is anything added or subtracted to the original signal. (Anything)
2). Linear noise increases as the source volume increases, Such as Speaker chuffing or cabinet resonances or over driven amplifier distortion.
3). Non-linear noise is constant regardless of the source volume, such as the hiss we are referring to.

Low level non-linear noise is the most tolerable of noise anomalies, but we should always remember that “not all noise is disturbing” we like tube amplifiers and preamplifiers and they are simply noise machines when compared to a spec. put forth by a Sony receiver. We like vinyl and turntables, both tend to be very noisy, yet thoroughly enjoyable.

Just my 2 cents
Andrew Ward

[Andrew M Ward]

Noise and distortion are..

In my previous post "Noise" can be replaced with "Distortion"

They are interchangeable in that scenario

[RebelMan]

dakahuna3, I think you will find the link below very beneficial. I believe it concurrs with the comments and suggestions that were made to me by my dealer.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/78/

[Elvis]

A Humm is typically related to grounds or the direct electrical source...
and
A hisss can be DC noise on the circuit board...
and
If you hear a Hummm it's probably your problem...
and
If you hear a Hissss it's probably the manufacturers problem...
and
None should be tolerated from the listening position if audible while listening to music at any volume...

just my 2 cents

Thats more than 2 cents worth,its money in the bank.

[stantheman2]

Another $0.01 A component's transformer, if it is faulty, can also hum.

[Kevin D]

dakahuna3, I think you will find the link below very beneficial. I believe it concurrs with the comments and suggestions that were made to me by my dealer.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/78/

Funny your dealer would recommend cheater plugs, you would stand by it, and then link to an article that says this:

Only as a last resort should you lift grounds on three-pronged equipment. This is never a good solution. For one, the ground pin is there for safety. Also, the problem may or may not be with a grounded component. Finally, when too many grounds are lifted (or if the entire system's ground is lifted), the system can exhibit excessive static or background noise.

Kind of goes along with what Elvis said on never lift the ground, find what's wrong in the first place. Lifting the ground could make the problem in-audible, but doesn't fix it...


Kevin D.

[RebelMan]

There is no contradiction here. The article taken as a whole is meant to help someone isolate (and eliminate) noise from their speakers. In this case the noise being hissing. The author, as you pointed out, states you can lift ground, but as a last resort. Granted my dealer didn't explicitly say this, but the suggestion is the same.

[Andrew M Ward]

Stan the Man

True - too

Transformers can hummm like the dickens, actually it usually manifests itself in more of a "Buzz" but certainly when coming from inside an enclosure a buzzz would definitely take on the characteristics of a hummm.

why?

Because the ZZZZZ would be muffled by the cabinet thus leaving a humming sound

Am I reaching?
Andrew Ward

[Elvis]

Good point stan but I kinda consider the transformer more on the buzz side but it can sound very similar(as mentioned by Andrew)to a hum from a cabinet.

[Elvis]

There is no contradiction here. The article taken as a whole is meant to help someone isolate (and eliminate) noise from their speakers. In this case the noise being hissing. The author, as you pointed out, states you can lift ground, but as a last resort. Granted my dealer didn't explicitly say this, but the suggestion is the same.

Thats good info for those that have no idea where or what is causing hiss/hum/ buzz.

[Andrew M Ward]

Here's one for you...

Attention Everybody!
If you're concerned with hum... or hisss ... or Buzzz

First, unplug everything from your Preamp section and then turn up you volume to 100% and if you hear hisss it's your preamp creating noise.

Try that...

otherwise you're probably amplifying line noise.
More 2 cents
Andrew M Ward

[Asterduc]

How much hiss, that's the question

How much Hiss do you hear?
If we talk about an amount of noise, it must be compared to a reference.

One can hear hiss, but another can't notice anything. Why? because the one is sitting in an isolated room with no noise and the other one lives near a highway with a bunch of kids running through the house.

This is what I find on my RSX-1056.
I am in a soundproof HT room, area level is less than 30 db which is quite low, equipment switched on and set up in stereo mode, no source is playing. If I concentrade on the hiss I can find it when I go close to 1 meter (3 ft) distance from the center speaker or the surrounds. Higher or lower volume level setting does not change this. Contrary, on the fronts with the RB-1080, the level must be set to 84% to get the same amount of hiss that comes forom the center.

When a source is playing and sitting on 1 meter distance from the center speaker, the hiss is not longer noticable ones you reach 30% music level.

Conclusion: I am very sensitive for short-commings, but if this is the hiss that some are claiming, then they better start looking for alternative equipment. IMO they won't find it that easy!
On the other hand, Rotel could get rid of these claims if they would disconnect the unused channels while playing in stereo. That would probably increase the price of the RSX-1056 due to the additional relays. For me not worth the extra price!

Regards,
Ed.

[Elvis]

I''m sure $5 or $10 won't stop potential buyers,I'd pay $50 right now if mine never hissed.Considering they have lost many times that amount I don't get the math.How about an option?Just because some people are willing to settle don't make others.

[Andrew M Ward]

Elvis don't hate me!

I''m sure $5 or $10 won't stop potential buyers,I'd pay $50 right now if mine never hissed.Considering they have lost many times that amount I don't get the math.How about an option?Just because some people are willing to settle don't make others.

Marketing 101
Elvis,
There is always a reason why one person or another does or does not buy a product. Number of inputs, user interface display, over all look, sounds quality, or hiss or lack there of. Manufacturers make hundreds and hundreds of decisions regarding a product, to no small effect.


Engineering 101:
If Rotel were to add relays to the topology of the 1056 board, it would require some engineering and potentially so re-engineering. and then testing and drawing up a new design. once the new design was submitted it would then have to go through all the same approvals a new design would go through, such as UL and CE (this takes months and months and costs tens of thousands of dollars for each approval)

there is no $50 change on a product, it would basically become a new product because if you're going to open up a topology you might as well look into the latest board advancements and the newest DAC's and all sorts of upgrades along the way.

to get a group of engineers together to "do a slight" board modification is not realistic, it always turns into a major project and eventually a new product.

Which, by the way is probably happening right now (wink)
Just my 2 cents
-Andrew Ward

[Kens1]

I don't think you should have to settle for listening to a hiss either Elvis. Take the unit back to the dealer and get a different one. If you have already and it still happens then that is really bad luck.
Like I said before I have to be about an inch or two away to hear any hum (more hum than hiss) from my tweeters. I don't live in a noisy apartment either. I can actually hear the clock tick in the same room if the stereo or tv isn't on.
So I guess I can "settle" for the "noise" coming from my tweeters at one inch away because it is inaudible unless one inch away. I probably wouldn't have noticed unless I read this forum that my speakers had any noise coming out of them, but I have to look for it to even hear it. If it was an issue to the point of hearing it while being within even a meter of the speakers I would take the unit back, and if If kept happening I guess I would have another brand of receiver right now.

[Andrew M Ward]

But are you amplifying line noise?

But is line noise being amplified?

:blink:

[Elvis]

Andrew,you are correct again,at this point Rotel can't do a relay/fix cheap.I had in my mind when I posted that if this were done on the original design it would not be a huge investment(all things considered),I should have stated it that way.Kens,I can hear my clock tick also,and the hiss is not a deal breaker for me,it just bugs me.I could buy most any mid-fi set up,I still choose Rotel,they just sound better and are easy to setup/control and I do recommend them often.I also have friends that that are impressed w/my systems but the hiss has been a point of much discussion and I don't have much ammo on that one.

[NewBuyer]

Please help me with this naive question:

Is it, for all practical purposes, impossible to design a piece of midfi equipment that doesn't hiss?

[Kens1]

I think we must be talking about different noises coming from our speakers. I just checked my Panasonic (SA PM08) mini system (as mass market as they come) in the family room and it generates the exact humm as the 1056. I still have to have my ear right against the speaker to hear it - two feet away I can't hear it - same as the 1056.
Mind you the panasonic does seem to mute the centre and rears in two channel operation. Still though, on the 1056 I can't hear anything unless my ear is right beside the tweeter.
I think Elvis and myself must be experiencing something different. Elvis, have you tried returning the 1056 for another one. I know someone on this forum has had three bad units but I'm not sure if it is you.
I'm really trying to find this noise so I waited till everyone was in bed and the house was dead quiet but I still can't hear it unless I've got my head right at the speaker.