Preamp choices: RSP1068 or RSX1056 or AVR3805?

[csuzor]

Is the better choice the RSP1068 or RSX1056 for pre-amp duty?

I will add the RMB1066 (in bi-amp mode) or the RMB1075.
I am upgrading from a denon1804 to drive B&W700series in 5channels only (no sub yet)

Being budget limited, choosing the RSX1056 allows me to buy a single component now, and upgrade later with the RMB1066 (3x150 for the fronts). However, the RSP1068 would require the RMB1075 (5x120 for all).

Another option is to use a denon 2805 or 3805 as a preamp, and add the RMB1075 later (I understand the power rating is false on these amps, so quality will suffer)

Does anyone have experience on B&W700 series and similar upgrade of amp?

I hope these choices will all substantially upgrade my existing setup!

Usage is 60% SACD, 20% CD and 20% movies. I use DTS NEO or 5-channel stereo modes often for standard CD sources, so digital-analog conversion quality is important for me.

The costs for me here are
Rotel
RMB1048 Power 8x40 EUR1100
RMB1066 Power 6x75 3x150 EUR1000
RMB1075 Power 5x120 EUR1700
RMB1095 Power 5x200 EUR2850
RSP1068 Pre EUR1700
RSP1098 Pre EUR3500
RSX1056 Int 5x75 EUR2000
RSX1067 Int 7x100 EUR3000

Denon
AVR2805 Int EUR900
AVR3805 Int EUR1400

Thanks for any advice.
Christophe

[eelco74]

Hi Christophe,

First let met explain about the Denon vd Rotel question. I have owned a Denon 3801 and used it as a pre-amp. I also know the 3803 as well as the 3805. I now own a rsp1068/RB-981/RB-985MKII.

If you watch movies, the Denon is a fine piece of kit. The Rotel has more ambiance an has a better soundstage. However you need the right speakers to reveal the difference.

Now for stereo (and SACD for that matter) the Denon loses many points. I know from experience that the 1068 sounds way better. It was even better than I expected and very close to my dedicated RC-972 pre-amp. So it stereo is importand do not buy the Denon.

Now for your choice of amps. Actually the 1056 as a pre-amp sounds about 90% like the 1068. The 1068 has a lower noise level and is a bit cleaner sounding.

For stereo I would suggest the 1056 and add a RB-1070 of 1080 for the front channels. You gain a lot in sound quality for having a dedicated amp for the front channels. You can redirect the unused channels in the 1056 to the surround back making it a 7.1 setup. This setup is both excellent in Stereo as well as surround.

Of course a RSp1068/RB1070/RB1075 will sound better, but costs mutch more. And with the 700 series from B&W I think the 1056/1070 combo will sound just as good.

I would suggest to demo it at a good dealer. For this price he might even consider trying it at home for the weekend. My dealer does....but I am a regular customer.

[audiofan]

eelco74,
Do you recommend any speaker beside B&W? Have your heard of Aperion, Totem? I want to upgrade my speakers (Axiom M60) to something else with moderate price. Aperion is the one i'm looking at based on the description (www.aperionaudio.com).

Thanks.

[audiofan]

By the way, how is the pre-amp section between 1068 and rc-1070 in term of two channel music?
thanks again.

[weijst]

Salût Christophe,

I have the RSP1068/RMB1075 combo driving a set of 705's (and HTM7) and it sounds pretty impressive to say the least! However if I could do it all over I would demo the RSX1056/RB1080 combination a little more thorough...

Reasons:
1. The 1075 has its limits (compared to the RB1080) when it comes to driving up class speakers (e.g. B&W's 703s and beyond)
2. The 1056 has a tuner! (A feature I never thought I'd miss)
3. 1056 + RB1080 gives you 6.1 or 7.1 channels...

Bon chance!

ps: I think you should be able to get the RMB1075 for a lot less than 1700. I got mine for 1350 (that's incl 10% discount)

[austriacus]

I am close to buying the Rotel 1056 or 1066 with the 1080.
I agree that the 3805 is nice for HT but not at all good enough for the audiophile.
I personally like very much the French Triangle speakers (for Jazz, reeds, vocal).

[Andrew Pratt]

I wouldn't recomend the 1066 as an amp other then for running micro speakers or in a second zone install. Your money is far better spent on the 1075 or the 1080 if stereo is a priority.

[basementjack]

I did a side by side comparison of the rotel stuff against the denon 3805.
I'll second eelco74 - the denon would have been fine for movies.

There was a noticeable improvement going to the rotel

Interestingly, I did a comparison where I used the 3805 as a preamp to the 1075 amp, and found the sound quality, and tonality to be no different than the 3805 by itself. The real improvement came from the 1068 as a preamp.

Another interesting thing is the retail prices.

Over here in the US, the 1056 lists for around 1299 and the Denon lists at around $1200 - so the two recievers are nearly the same price.

Another interesting thing is that the 1068 preamp costs more over here than the 1056 reciever -(list is 1700, street 1550)

From your prices, the 1068 is 300 EUR cheaper than the 1056.
If that were the case over here, I would have selected the 1068+1075, however given the price difference, I purchased the 1056+1075 (I did want a tuner so that factored in as well, but I tossed and turned for over a month on the decision - which would have been a no briainer for the 1068 if the cost was 300 lower)

- Jack

[mitch57]

I think this is a very subjective topic. While I haven't auditioned any of the Rotel receivers as a pre/pro with my RMB-1095 I have auditioned the denon 3805. I am currently using it as my Pre/Pro and I am very impressed with sound stage.

Another thing I like about the 3805 over the Rotel is it's feature set. I feel there are more "Bells and whistles" on the 3805 then there are on the Rotel. However, those things may not be important to you.

I also think the speakers play a very big part in this equation. I own Def Techs and I feel they are a great match for both the RMB-1095 and the Denon 3805.

Of course these are all my opinions and I'm sure others will chime in and give us their 2 cents as well. I think most of us would agree that YOU need to be the final judge on which one sounds better to your ears.

US street prices on the Denon 3805 can be had for under $1000.00 US. You will have to do some shopping around to find an authorized dealer that's having a sale on the 3805.

Happy Shopping!

[eelco74]

christophe,

I found the 1070 very simular to my trusted rc-972. Compared to the 1068 it is less noisy, but for me not worth having both a stereo and surround pre-amp. My system is aready complex enough.

For speakers i must say i absolutely love Totem. However they are rather pricey, but I like the finish and most of all the sound.

Since you live in France, I can recommend you Focal.jmlab. The Cobalt S is a vey fine line. I tried the Cobalt 826S as well as the Electra 906. Both the same price. But the Electra is way better and I especially like monitors. So I now have the Electra 906.

[csuzor]

I've just found this nice review on receivers, comparing RSX1056 AVR3805 and Yamaha HK Arcam...

The conclusion is that the RSX1056 is the better musical option.
"The rotel has clarity and directness of sound that goes beyond the abilities of the rest... nothing else in this group communicates surround soundtracks quite so directly... character and intelligibility of dialogue is a delight"

http://www.nebyhifi.no/documents/RSX-1056HomeCinemaJuly04.pdf

So my choice is made (though it is more expensive...)
Now i'll go and listen to an rsx1056 vs rsp1068+rmb1075 on the B&W700 series and see if it's worth the extra outlay (and delay to save!)

Thanks.

[Elvis]

You made the right decision,although the 3805 and others have great features they can't compare to the Rotel 1056 for music,even without any external amps.The 1068 takes music up another notch.

[weijst]

You could compare the 1056 to the 1068/1075 combination, but I think pricetechnically, you ought to compare the 1067 to the 1068/1075 combo...

[Radec]

Maybe you will be stronger than I was. I had my "budget" I was trying to stay in, and started at the 1056/1070 Combo, then moved to the 1067, and by the time I was done I owned the 1068 Preamp and the 1075 and 1080 Amps!!! ops:

Seroiously, I'd say you'll have a winner whatever you decide

[csuzor]

I am now the proud owner of RSP1068 + RMB1075 combo, after a serious listening session. I compared my Denon integrated amp AVR1804 with the RSX-1056 and this combo. An unfair comparison, but I had to do this before spending so much. Speakers were B&W 704 / 703 / 804S (see post in B&W section). My results on music mostly with acoustic guitars, violins, few drums, some vocals (artists Dorval, Mutter, Kolner Sextet, Gypsy Soul, Joe McBryde, Spyro Guira):

AVR1804: it plays the notes from guitar or piano or violin, without much texture, and bass sounds are very sloppy. Vocals have a harshness whenever there are instruments at the same time.

RSX1056: the notes are truer, textured, and bass is much better, but has a tendancy to be a little sloppy on more complex music. Vocals are more pleasant, most of the harshness is gone.

RSP1068 + RMB1075: the notes are really textured (I didn't realise such detail existed on these recordings!). The effect of the fingers on the guitar strings, the resonnance of the piano and violin woodwork, the gentle passing of (horse hairs?) on the violin's strings. Vocals are crisp, maybe a little too crisp (i guess it was recorded that way). I was impressed.

We spent some time switching back and forth, and trying all speaker combinations. We also tried in a 5.0 configuration, only the combo could hold all speakers well.

So I drove home with the combo, wondering how to pay for it all!

At home, quick plug-in, warm-up, and played a familiar CD (Pink Martini): I have never heard my speakers sound so good, and never heard this album like that (or was it a new recording of the same album?!). I think the acoustics at home are better than at the shop.

Thanks for all the advice.
I am a happy man today!
Christophe

[soundhound]

Congrats, it only gets better.........

[ds22030]

Thanks for looping back and posting your reviews...this stuff always helps. I do hate the fact that in the US, RSP1068 is more than the RSX1056.......

[Kens1]

I have the 1056 and just recently, with the help of members from this forum, decided to go with the 1080 for the front channels as well. I could not be happier with that decision. The 1056 sounds great alone, but I did not anticipate how much better it would get with the 1080 thrown into the mix.

I had to listen to all my cd's again when I first got the 1056 because it was so good. Now I'm doing that again since I added the 1080. I haven't listened to music this much since I was in high school and that's all I did (had my first marantz 2 channel stereo back then that I bought myself).
Finally a receiver that does music justice and adding the 1080 is more that I could have hoped for.

Like others have said though, all the choices you listed would be good ones.