Rotel Quality Control going down hill??

[PiDD]

Well I am on my 3rd 1098 now and I am getting a bit frustrated!

The first one had a prob with the 12v triggers... they didnt work.

The second one had some issues with the function dial not being able to lock to a selection.

Now I get the third one (new 3.1.0 firmware) and function knob is worse than my other one. The TFT screen has got a green hue (whites are light green). Now the svideo signal is in black and white! (I double checked the wires)

I would expect more from Rotel or any company at this price point.

Now the dealer is dangling a Moon and Classe products under my nose! I love everything about the Rotel .. looks, sound and function. I just expect things to work.

Is any one else seeing such issues?

Rob

[Kevin D]

Kevin D.

[IntegrateMe]

We're looking at about a 20% failure rate, with other 'minor' issues causing their own set of problems.

The biggest minor offender is in the RSX series products; they lose all settings after a power outage, regardless of whether a surge protector is used. The consequence is that the client presses "DVD" on their 1700 panel, the source is no longer mapped to the correct input. A low capacity capacitor was originally blamed, but the problem still happens itermittently.

The biggest large problem is amplifier channels failing. Bad news on that front...but they do fix it.

[DrJRapp]

Rob

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences with 1098s, you can be assured that that many problems with one particular model, especially the 1098, don't happen frequently or you'd be hearing about it very often on this forum. People come here to share knowledge and we seem to attract those with problems seeking solutions. Are you completely sure your dealer isn't giving you B stock units?

Kevin,

Based on your avitar, it seems that the so called "high" failure rates on Rotel gear hasn't kept you from owning them yourself.

From my experience, my numbers differ from yours. I've owned 7 pieces of Rotel gear and just experienced my first failure, the left channel on a RB 1080. That places my expeience factor at about 14% not 35%. This not acceptable, even at this price level. That one failure will not deter me from buying Rotel as long as Rotel does an good job of fixing it.

Barry

You must have been typing while I was! Happy Holidays. Any news on my 1080 yet?

[Kevin D]

Kevin D.

[mitch57]

How long after owning Rotel equipment do you see these problems? Is this something that happens shortly after delivery or does it occur after weeks, months, or years after purchase? Or is it across the board? What does Rotel have to say about all this?

[Cowanrg]

hum, our store goes through rotel like its candy, and we RARELY ever have an issue. i have sold a couple receivers, at least 10 integrated amps, a few processor/amp combos, and a few of their players in the last 6 months (ive done maybe 20-30 pieces myself), and they have all been fine. 100%. as a store, its about that too. we have had 1 or 2 pieces in the last year fail... not sure whats wrong with everyone else.

[Kevin D]

Kevin D.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

I have a really good relationship with my local Aussie Rotel store and they too (like CowanG's store) have had very few issues - no sense of a % but I'm still the only fautly RB-1080 owner, they've never had a broken RSP-1098/68, have had a "two or three" RSP-1066s fail in the couple of years that they sold them and they failed in the first few days from new... The most that they could remember was some issues with an early batch of RDV-1060 players requring ROM updates. Each failure annoying but in context of hundreds of units sold...

So... maybe the quality issue is localised...

Yet I have to admit that just in the last 3 months or so there seem to be more reports than there used to be on this forum of people with faulty RSX-1067's and RSP-1098s etc from new (mostly USA). Maybe a bad batch or two shipped to the USA - Rotel make in batches for different contries... Mind you there are thousands sold so...

Geoff

[IntegrateMe]

Hey Jerrry- No word from Rotel yet on the 1080, but I'll give them a call on Monday to see where they are at. Usually when you send it up there, they will take about 5-10 business days to get it fixed, depending on how busy they are.

Since I own a RMB-1075 now and I used to own a RSX-1065, I always questioned exactly what was going wrong when one of my programmers or installers mentioned that a Rotel product had gone bad in the field, and it most frequently revolved around an amp channel.

We had the rep come in and assure us that the failure/return rate was around 4%, but we will have to wait and see how it continues to pan out. I will say that Lexicon and Anthem, which I also sell, don't have service issues to the same extent as the Rotel gear. Those lines, while more expensive, seem to be little more reliable.

The issue from the custom integration angle is more significant than for the retail/owner channel. If we as owners feel that the product, when working properly, is worth some degree of headache/learning curve, we may accept it. However, when the a/v portion of someone's automated master bedroom doesn't work, the client doesn't want to hear about Rotel, Anthem, Lex, etc., he just wants to know why there is no sound when he presses DVD on the Crestron. It makes us look bad to have chosen a product that may be potentially unreliable.

[H.Donald]

I will only say this about Rotel,my system sounds great,but....
this morning I found myself at Radio Shack picking up $1.69 worth of parts to try and
tame the buzz on my $2,000 amp.

[Cracking Oboe]

Nice timing for this question!
I just got my RDV back from service yesterday (it took over a month). Woo Hoo... just before Christmas!... what else could anyone ask for?
Guess what? It has the same problems as it had before, plus one new one :T . Yup, I'd say QC is a bit of a problem. Do I count this as one or two? I'm at 25% or 50%, it depends on how you want to count it.

Cracking!

[Cracking Oboe]

I really should mention...
My dealer was willing to stay late today so I could return my unit and he could give me a loaner. Christmas eve and willing to do whatever he could to help me out. That kind of service is... well... I'm at a loss for words. I expressed my appreciation and told him that it could wait till the New Year.
All the best this holiday season to everyone!!
arty:


Cracking!

[PiDD]

My 1095 has been rock solid... and it should be, it doesnt have the complexity of the 1098.

All the 1098 problems I have had were right out of the box. When my dealer calls Rotel they are great at sending me new replacements, I make sure I dont get a repack. The green hue of the TFT dissapointed me but the svideo problem means this one is going back too.

So I am 0/3.... maybe I have to go down under for a good 1098! :W

[PiDD]

My dealer was willing to stay late today

Was it the Sounds of Music?

I love going into that place! I heard some MacIntosh gear last time... really humbled me!

The Rotel dealers are great. He was a little pissed at Rotel as was I. I have no worries that all this will be cleared up but I have to say I lost a little wind in my sails over Rotel QC.

[Cracking Oboe]

Was it the Sounds of Music?

I see their reputation preceeds them. Yup, quality stuff. I felt equally humbled with their MacIntosh gear, and then once again with some Musical Fidelity Tri Vista (or was it Nu-Vista) kit they had. Great equipment... Great place :T !

Cracking!

[Aussie Geoff]

PiDD,

I lost a little wind in my sails over Rotel QC.

You have my sympathy (and admiration for your patience) - with 3 faulty units I would have done more than that!!!! It would have been "money back please".

A manufacturer of consumer electronics lives or dies on the QC of what it delivers. Unless it is of a high standard, dealers and installers vote with their customer recommendations and stock levels, word of mouth spreads and a product's reputation can slide quickly. Clearly there is a problem that some of you (like Kevin) have been having and already it is doing some damage in parts of the market... Let's hope it is both isolated and fixed quickly, otherwise I would suggest that within months there would be a rapid decline in Rotel market share... The sound quality / value is too good for any of us to want that to happen...

Andrew - I presume you will ensure that your US connections are aware of this thread...

PS - On a brighter note I have seen this happen with some other well known suppliers over the years when they have done things like move manufacturing plants etc. For example Denon had this issue a few years ago, Sony when it first moved out of Japan. Usually it is rectified in a couple of months once the feedback from the field reaches the plant and steps are taken (heads roll etc)...

Geoff

[PiDD]

I see their reputation preceeds them.

I go to Calgary quite a bit through work and try to pop my head in there when ever I can. I was in their home theater room listening to some ear bleedingly loud music dvd with a big stupid grin on my face when the sales guy tapped me and motioned me over. We went into another room with a pair of MacIintosh tower speakers and a couple of mamoth monoblock amps. I still regret hearing that musical bliss!! So clean crisp and a sound stage to die for! Now I cant wait to go back!

"money back please"

I guess the xmas spirit got a hold of me! I do like the Rotel line.... from looks to sound. It is a perfect fit for me. I really want this relationship to work. Saying that I cant keep on getting dud equipment from them. The last round sure felt like I got B-stock!?? The other equipment I got came from dealer stock, this one came right from Rotel?

We will see what round 4 will bring.

[IntegrateMe]

I'm glad to hear that another dealer was helping on out Christmas Eve also!

I was just over at a client's house yesterday replacing the hard drive for the Audio Request that somehow got corrupted; at least their 1075 was working fine!

[Mitchell]

reminds me of another British Company some years ago.. Jaguar which designed some great cars that looked wonderful and performed great when they performed at all.

[Cracking Oboe]

reminds me of another British Company some years ago.. Jaguar which designed some great cars that looked wonderful and performed great when they performed at all.

Yes! ...and inspite of that, Jaguar owners seem loyal to the core. I guess the problems were seen as a small sacrifice for owning something special. I can see the parallel.

Cracking!

[Mitchell]

Yes, welll perhaps Rotel will be taken over by Radio Shack the way Ford (If I remember correctly) has taken over Jaguar.

[DrJRapp]

Yes, welll perhaps Rotel will be taken over by Radio Shack the way Ford (If I remember correctly) has taken over Jaguar.

Yes, Ford has, ten years ago. And Jaguars are still behind the curve when it comes to reliability. In fact, the one I own, the X-Type was voted "most improved car" in terms of initial quality issues by J D Powers in 1992. I had improved from 35 initial defects to 11 initial defects, more than my previous three cars combined.....LOL

All joking aside, I believe I read somewere that Rotel has recently been taken over by one of the major electonic holding companies.

[hamlyn]

I recently discovered that Equity International today owns Rotel, B&W, Classé and iCommand. While the companies will not share technologies and will be run independantly, it was interesting to hear a phone call to Rotel answered as "B&W Group."

Earlier this year I purchased a Rotel Receiver and 1060 DVD player. The receiver was replaced after 2 months as it kept shutting down whenever I raised to volume past 50.
The DVD player is at Rotel at the moment.

[Aussie Geoff]

Hi,

Here's a LINK showing (someones view of) who owns what companies of the major brands... Seems like most brands and owned by someone else!!!

Equity International is apparently a Canadian Company... THough I can't find out any real reference on the Web... ???

Geoff

[Mitchell]

PiDD,
A manufacturer of consumer electronics lives or dies on the QC of what it delivers. Unless it is of a high standard, dealers and installers vote with their customer recommendations and stock levels, word of mouth spreads and a product's reputation can slide quickly.
Geoff

This forum will certainly get the word out. To new buyers searching the web for info on Rotel products this forum often comes up. Its actually one of the reasons I decided to go with Rotel. Conversly, anyone searching now will see multiple QC problems on the forum. Its gotta be tough being a manufacturer these days. The speed at which word of mouth travels around the globe is incredible. Rotel ought to have a PR firm monitor this forum do damage control.

[stantheman2]

Rotel DOES monitor this forum, and, from my experience they DO care about us end users.

Last spring, I popped for an RSX-1056 (my first Rotel) just as it hit the market. I had been waiting two months while Rotel turned over the last old inventory and started up initial production of the new models. I then had a bad initial problem (it fried itself on initial power-up). At first, the dealer didn't seem too motivated to help me, so I vented my frustrations on this forum. Andrew Pratt immediately put me in contact with the national rep, and within a week Rotel had Fed Ex'd a replacement to my dealer, at a time when new units were scarce in the U.S. When I went in to pick up the rpelacement unit, the sales rep told me that Rotel wanted to make sure I was satisfied, and then he asked (if I was satisfied) that I post a positve update/message on THIS forum, because Rotel would be checking. The sound quality out of the second 1056 was AMAZING, so Iwas only too happy to post a glowing follow-up.

From reading many posts about Rotel, there seem to be realtively small clusters of individuals and dealers that have had negative experiecnes wrt Rotel. I suspect that is true of all brands, but people that post in forums like this tend to be more passionate about their gear and sound, and the posts reflect this.


IMO, Rotel is passionale about sound and the audiophile community. They work very hard to put out relatively affordable products that sound great and are carefiully designed with USEFUL features while not being being burdened with the complexities and additional costs of "gee whiz" features you never use (the TFT screen on the 1098 is possibly the only exception to this).

[Kevin97225]

Wow, all this talk lately about bad Rotel Equip.

All this talk lately on the internet about Rotel equipment problems is starting to get me nervous! I have 8 Rotel units, some that I bought 4 months ago and some a month a ago. I haven't had any problems with mine so I sure hope I don't experience any problems! I'm really pleased with the sound quality from all my Rotel Equipment! Hopefully Rotel will tighten up QC to solve these problems we are hearing. Rotel has had a strong reputation with quality and reliability so I would hate to see it take a negative turn to this. I love how my Rotel equipment sounds so please say it isn't so!

[H.Donald]

I love the sound and the look of my Rotel system.At present,I am trying to learn to live with the buzzing from my mains using the 1095.Should I find it unloveable...well,I could learn to love Parasound or Nad among others.Love is fleeting....

[PiDD]

I love how my Rotel equipment sounds so please say it isn't so!

Me too!

I'm sure Rotel will take care of my situation, I never had any worries about that. Its just that I dont think I should have to go through it 4 times. :M

[PiDD]

Mysteriously and out of the blue the Svideo started working. The color isnt very bright but there is color and I can max my color settings to compensate.

Now I have to get a fix for the function dial and green screen.

[GET]

Equity International

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/27389.html

[Kevin97225]

H.Donald - I got rid of that problem.

Hi H.Donald,

I got rid of that problem. It only happened to mine if a DVD player was hooked up to the Rotel system. I solved the problem by putting it on a switch box, that makes it like its unplugged until you use it. Some other people say they solved theirs by running a ground wire to each unit. A friend of mine just got the Parasound A21 Halo and has the same problem so I took him to Frys so he could get the switch box to fix his problem, so it looks like Parasound won't solve it either. :E

[Kevin97225]

Oh yes, I love the looks of Rotel too! One of the best looks out there right now,
classy and elegant, especially in the two-tone silver and black! At least I think
so, and the sound is even better!

[Aussie Geoff]

GET,
Thanks. I think this quote from the Equitity International Press release you linked to says it all;

The B&W Group’s portfolio of consumer electronics brands is comprised ofBowers & Wilkins (B&W) Loudspeakers, Classé Audio (electronics), i-Command™(control systems), and Rotel Electronics. This extensive combination of premium products are marketed in more than 60 countries worldwide via B&W’s network of wholly owned and independent distributors. Headquartered in Worthing, England, the B&W Group also maintains a U.S. office in North Reading, Massachusetts with Equity International, a subsidiary, which distributes the brands throughout North America.

Geoff

[H.Donald]

Kevin97225, thanks for input,I'll give those a try.Today,I removed everything from the amp except the speaker cables and there was no buzz.So I assume this means the 1095 is ok?

[gostan]

Rotel tried to repair my 1055 receiver on 3 ocassions before my dealer & Rotel took it back. I decided to give Rotel one more chance and my 1098 has been nothing but a sweet sounding dream since last June.

Stan

[PiDD]

Well i talked to my dealer today and he is going to talk to Rotel about one more 1098. He also mentioned that he is getting a Cary Cinema 6 in and I should give it a try.

I guess I will see what happens.

[Kevin97225]

H.Donald, Yes... it means it's ok. What you need to do now is add each back.... one by one, until you hear the buzz come back and that will tell you what's causing it. Cable TV/Satellite can also be a big cause of buzz too, if that is it.... you will need to get a $1.69 adaptor from Radio Shack for the cable to rid the buzz, a lot of those TV cables aren't grounded right or at all. Hope you figure out the problem! Good Luck! Kevin.

[Cracking Oboe]

The price of "the high end"

In a review of a Classe SSP-60 Pre/Pro in Stereophile’s Guide to Home Theater, the first SSP-60 was faulty and returned, and the second SSP-60 failed with a different problem.
The reviewer reported, “…the few bugs I encountered (with the SSP-60) seem to be the norm for how the high-end often is.”.


Cracking!

[weijst]

Oh yes, I love the looks of Rotel too!...especially in the two-tone silver and black!

Sorry all, off-topic, but I can't resist . I too believe the two-tone Rotel gear looks great. However, have you ever seen a full rack of black Rotel gear? I found this in the "Pictures of your Rotel set-up" thread. It's the setup of a current junior member called Sandokan:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/attachment.php4?attachmentid=89

Maybe it's because I don't come across that many black Rotel sets, but I believe it looks amazing!

Now, back to topic...

[eelco74]

I have all black as well, since I have several 9 series components as well.

Rotel at least uses the same color black for many years now. the current 9 and 10 series are a bit brown/black. The older 8 series (I had a RA-840BX4 once) was more black/grey.

Here is mine in all black http://home.wanadoo.nl/evanvliet/pic...ack2-large.jpg

the only non Rotel is my Denon 2900 and the project 1.2 turntable

As you can see I still use several 9 series and I have never had a major problem. the only problem I had was my RVD-985 locking up, but after a reset it was OK again.

[Cracking Oboe]

All black is where it's at! I couldn't get my S-VCR in any other colour than 'champagne', so it ruins the flow. Otherwise, my all black Rotel stacks look great, and sound even better! :T . In the dark, the soft glow of the red power lights on the black Rotels sure beat out the intense glare of the blue LED's.
Besides, silver is just too 70's to me. I was excited when black units became readily available on consumer electronics in the early eighties and I can't figure out how silver came back into fashion. (Although I have to admit, I do like how Rotel mixed the silver and the black... much better looking than all silver).
Every person I have referred to Rotel, purchased their units in black. I think there are more of us than you know. A separate thread on this could be revealing. (I really should get a digital camera, but my desrire to own Rotel equipment has been greater than my need to take pictures of it.)



Cracking!

[PiDD]

Andrew would be proud of you all black rack guys! It does look good... but I have to say I like the two tone. It has such a modern look... not dated at all.

[Andrew Pratt]

Rob if Advance can't get you sorted shoot me an email and I'll see what I might be able to do for you via my channels.