Leaner bass output in RMB-1095?

[hired goon]

G'day,

One of the first things I noticed about the new RMB-1095 I got a few weeks ago is the 'leanness' of the bass output, at least compared to my previous RMB-1075.

I've got some large floorstanders on loan at the moment, and the bass response seems somewhat poor. The bass is tight, but not extended. Some tracks just seem to missing the bass, as if there was a 50Hz cutoff.

I had bookshelf speakers on loan from the same speaker manufacturer previously, and I was using my old RMB-1075 to drive them. These seemed to have more bass extension than I'm getting now, so I don't think the speaker is the culprit.

Is this leanness a characteristic of upgrading from the 1075 to the 1095, or is it more probable that I've messed something up? I've double-checked all my connections, etc, but nothing seems awry.

--Geoff

[aarsoe]

The 1095 does have a lot more control than the 1075 - this could be heard as less bass output.
The real question is if your 1095 have settled in yet - a couple of weeks is not that long a time, so it may open up a bit more. Also it is in my experience, not that uncommon, that you have to move the speakers when swicthing from one amp to another - in order to find the best sound. So try moving the speakers around abit and see if you can find a new location were it all falls back into place..

[Aussie Geoff]

Hired Goon,

Three more possibilities:

1) Check the new speakers with another brand amp (anything as they are efficiency) and see what happens to the bass - they may just be bass shy speakers (Equinox Audio have issued some previous speakers with "unusual" frequency responses according to the few formal reviews that exist for the brand...

2) The speakers may have a unusual current curve challenging the RMB-1095 - Equinox are quoting 4 ohms nominal and I have seen some of their larger speakers going down to 1.8 Ohms in the bass / mid bass - a challenge for most amps... Larger B&W Nautilus series like the 800, 801 and 802 have similar issues and require very special amps to get good bass from...

3) A quality control issue for example a out of spec component in the crossover affecting bass levels (speak to Equinox re this – they should be round with another amplifier to check)

Most likely though it is positioning as per the earlier post...

Geoff

[ds22030]

I'll throw in my 2 cents....I had 1075 driving polk LSi 15 which are 4ohm towers. There was bass alright...boomy and uncontrolled....not the way classical music was intended or recorded...at least not all. Some diff. connectors helped and biamping definately helped...but not enough. I exchanged it for a 1080 and although I have not had the 1080 long, I can definately tell the bass is much much tighter and controlled...and realistic. That diff. may be due to wattage or the dampening factor...or both. You may be experiencing with 1095 as what I experienced with the 1080. You may like the "extra bass" of the 1075 but it's probably not suppose to be there.

[Mitchell]

I was unhappy with the bass on my 1080 and B&W 703's in the beginning. I really was a little suspect of the break-in argument but it seems that they have done just that.
I dont know if its the speakers or the amp but music that I had known for years just didnt sound right in the beginning. I explored getting a sub-woofer but thankfully my dealer laughed and said dont even think about it for a few months.
I live in an apartment in NYC and now I have to be careful about the bass rattling other apts. In the beginning I would describe the sound as anemic. It has definitely filled out and I was really suspect that the whole break-in thing was a salesman way of getting you to not complain about a recent purchase.

[DrJRapp]

I really hate to state the obvious, but did you check your speaker phasing? I had a situation once where the amp was internally wired incorrectly and the + was really -...etc

[hired goon]

G'day,

I really hate to state the obvious, but did you check your speaker phasing?

Yep. Double-checking the phasing was my first action.

After performing more tests (using different speakers, amps, etc), I've come to the conclusion that the bass response is probably correct, though a bit tighter than I was used to.

I also think my memory of what the music was "supposed" to sound like was faulty. For example, I was sure that a certain track had a different bass line to what I was hearing from the 1095. I actually thought that some notes were missing. Tried a different amp/speaker combo, and sure enough, it was the same as I was hearing from the 1095 (although a bit looser, less controlled). Tried an mp3 of the track on the computer: same thing.

I'm not sure why I was so adamant that the 1095 was "wrong", when it seems to be just as "right" as my previous equipment. Maybe I was expecting a vastly different sound by moving from the 1075 to the 1095, and the difference (though present) was only slight, and this introduced some bias in my perception.

The tighter bass is also something that I wasn't used to, and this probably caused a bias as well. I assume that as I adjust to the 1095, and its tighter bass becomes normalized in my hearing, then the looser/boomier bass response of my previous equipment will become more apparent.

Anyway, I'll do more thorough tests this weekend, and see if I still feel the same way about the bass.

--Geoff

[aarsoe]

Geoff

Have you considdered that it could also be a cable match issue? Some cables will make the 1095 sound lean - at least, that is my experience.

You could give Lex a call and ask if he have something that will match with the 1095 - and I know that he does have that!

And before everyone suggest different cables - the please observe the rules about this subject!

[DrJRapp]

This experience was not unlike what I experienced when I went from a Denon 3801 receiver to my Rotel separates. The Rotel sounded "thin" for lack of a better term. It took me about a week to realize that what I was missing was nothing in the music, but the midrange bloat of the Denon.

[PewterTA]

Sounds like User Break-in to me.

Ha ha. No, in all seriousness. I really believe you have to give everything a few days (well a week or two) to really "break-in" and for one to get used to how things sound. Then judge as to whether you like it or not...

When I got my whole new set up, I initially didn't like it as well as my old setup. Didn't think the speakers had the "punch" or "low end kick" that my old setup had. I found out about a month later that all the sudden it was back. Now whether this was do to, speaker break-in, receiver break-in, cable break-in, or the most likely, Me break-in period...I'm not sure. But after giving the speakers and new set up time, I've found out how much better, EVERYTHING sounds.

I'm getting my 1095 in the next week (waiting for it to be shipped to me), and I know there will be some "user break-in," so I'm going in, not expecting a whole lot...and hopefully after a month or two, really notice how much better everything sounds!

[mitch57]

Hired Goon,

Just curious to know if you have any of the infamous hum problems with your new 1095? I would like to know if this hum problem is really a Rotel RMB-1095 issue or a ground loop issue. It seems that most of the information I read on other forums indicate that this 6oHz hum isssue is very common in audio and home theater. It doesn't seem to matter what components you have. It's all about grounding.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but ground loop hum seems to be everywhere. What's considered acceptable levels of hum? I have a very slight hum in my system but I have to put my ear right up to the tweeter in order to hear it. Should it be dead silent? Does it matter if you can't hear it from your listening area?

[Azeke]

Indeed, even though some consider break-in as a theory, I find it to be true in most cases. It gives components a chance to settle in, so to speak. That being said the RMB-1095 will do you justice just give it about a month.

However, not to bust your bubble, but separate front amplification is the real deal if you want better control, also you will need to re-calibrate your speakers every couple of weeks until "break-in" is complete. Minimal speaker adjustments will also provide sonic changes in behavior (i.e., toe in, adjusting distances from the walls, etc.).

Hang in there, you have a good product, and I believe it will prove its value.

Hope this helps,

Azeke

[ILuvDefTech]

Mitch57...

I got my first 1095 about a month ago. When I first connected it I had a very loud buzz from all speakers. After putting a group loop isolator between the cable outlet and my CATV box, the buzz was gone. Now I have to put my ear up to the speakers to hear a buzz, but that's normal transformer buzz(the 1095 is a big amp!).

You can get that buzz from any amp as long as you have grounding issues. If you can hear it from the listening area, it needs fixed. If not, don't worry about it. The 1095 is an awesome amp, period.

[hired goon]

G'day,

Just curious to know if you have any of the infamous hum problems with your new 1095? I would like to know if this hum problem is really a Rotel RMB-1095 issue or a ground loop issue.

There was a bit of hum initially, which I could hear from about 12 inches away from the amp itself and from the speakers.

Now, after a few weeks, the hum from the amp itself is limited to about 2 seconds when powering on the unit, then it becomes inaudible. I can still hear a very slight hum from the speakers with the volume down, but only if I put me ear right up to the drivers.

So I guess (apart from initial power-on) that audible hum is no longer an issue with my 1095.

-- Geoff

[hired goon]

G'day,

Indeed, even though some consider break-in as a theory, I find it to be true in most cases. It gives components a chance to settle in, so to speak. That being said the RMB-1095 will do you justice just give it about a month.

Perhaps, but I'm not a believer in solid state break-in. From my experience, it's the user adjusting to the amp, rather than the other way around.

However, not to bust your bubble, but separate front amplification is the real deal if you want better control...

I was considering trading the 1095 for 3 x RB-1080 for just this reason. I may just do it yet...

--Geoff

[mitch57]

Well I guess that settles it on the ground loop problem. If you can't hear it without putting your ear right up to the tweeter then I guess you don't have a hum/ground loop problem. Do I understand it correctly?

[hired goon]

G'day,

Well I guess that settles it on the ground loop problem. If you can't hear it without putting your ear right up to the tweeter then I guess you don't have a hum/ground loop problem. Do I understand it correctly?

Correct. At normal listening levels, and no sound generated, I cannot hear the hum unless I press my ear right up to the driver. With the volume turned up to MAX, and no sound generated, I can hear the hum from about 2 feet away.

In all practical respects, then, I no longer have a hum/ground loop problem.

--Geoff

[hired goon]

G'day,

I think the hi-fi gods have cursed me for my hubris (I should have guessed this would happen, having just read Herodotus). On Saturday I claimed to have licked the 1095 hum problem, but now I'm getting a noisy hum again.

The hum is audible from about 6-12 inches away (mainly from front and centre speakers) and at times there's a second louder hum that lasts for short intervals. That's probably some form of interference from another device, but I haven't been able to determine the offender yet. The persistant hum, however, is probably the ground loop issue.

I was thinking of trading my 1095 for 3 x RB-1080s, but I guess then I'll get three times the hum. Aargh.

--Geoff

[DrJRapp]

Don't dispair!

I have a very recent 1080 and have no hum issues...nada, zip, eg. none at all. And that's even with highly efficient speakers (104 dbw) that tend to magnify any flaw. I don't think the fault is as much with the Rotel amps as it is their sensitivity to differences in potential between grounds (classic def of ground loop).