Parasound vs Bryston power amplifiers

[Ken B]

Hello everyone!

I am looking for advise. Hope I came to the right place.

I understand this is a Parasound forum...but am looking for some unbaised and honest opinions here. How does the Paras compared to the Brystons in terms of sound charateristics?

Ken B.

[Kingdaddy]

I have a Bryston 3B and 2-A52's, IMO the Bryston is capable of delevering a lot of current but sonically is far inferior to the Halo amps.

[jimmyp58]

Interesting opinion and everyone has a right to theirs. But I ask, if sonically the Brystons are inferior, why would a lot of recording/tv studios and recording artists themselves opt for them?

Just a curious question.

No disrespect to Parasound as they are a great piece of equipment in their own right but just inquisitive as to how you arrived at this conclusion.

Jim

[Chris D]

Jimmyp, on that subject, I'd have to point out that George Lucas used Parasound and placed them in the credits for Star Wars Episodes I and II.

[jimmyp58]

Thanks Chris....very interesting indeed. I notice that on the Bryston user's list they cite Lucasfilm using their equipment too. Maybe some of these gents like to share the wealth?! I believe if you went to Chord's website, they used to cite Lucasfilm as a user too (no longer on there).

There is no doubt that Parasound has great equipment --- no argument from me on that. I just wondered how kingdaddy arrived at his finding --- were the mids not as distinct, highs, etc.? I know that everyone has their likes and dislikes but I was wondering how the Parasound equipment could be deemed sonically far superior to the Bryston (after all, I do have my bias ). Generally, Bryston has a very neutral sound reproduction so it would be also interesting to see what his transports, speakers, etc. were when making the comparison.

[Kingdaddy]

The Bryston has a different tonal characteristic then the Halo's and the noise floor is higher, IMO the midrange is much more detailed in the Halo

[jimmyp58]

Holy smokes....the Halo amp must be absolutely dead-silent or I am reading the specs wrong. Kingdaddy, I am not trying to be argumentative, just inquisitive so please don't take it as such. Further, I understand everyone has their likes and dislikes (for various reasons) and that is all good. And lastly, I hold the Halo line in high regard and I am not trying to force you to believe something that to you is not.

According to the Parasound website, they cite the THD of the A52 to be < 0.2% at full power while the 3B from Bryston is < 0.005% at full power. At typical listening levels, the Halo's THD is rated at 0.03% where as the 3B is < 0.007%. Again, everyone's ears are different but these numbers generally support the reviews of many that suggest Bryston amps have an extremely low noise floor. I wonder what is causing the difference in your system? What kind of speakers are you using? Some amps perform better with certain speakers than others.

I am not saying Bryston amps are the end-all-to-be-all or that they are better than Halos. Again, I am simply being inquisitive.

Jim

[LEVESQUE]

I concur with Jimmy here.

Noise floor higher with the Bryston? They probably have one of the best ground-scheme design on the market. I don't think so...

I was able to try the Halo amp A21, and it was a really good performer, and totally silent in soft parts, just like my Bryston 4BSST. If you hear any noise-floor at all from any of those 2 amps (4BSST versus A21), then you definitely need to call an electrician... They were both totally silent in my system. Even at 1" inch from the speakers, with the volume cranked-up on my pre/pro.

I didn't tought the mids were "much more detailed" with the Parasound. Quite frankly, my system is really transparent, and I tought they were almost sounding the same. Subtilities, yes. "Much more", no.

Both are outstanding products and are sounding much alike. The Bryston is a little bit more transparent IMHO, and the Parasound is maybe a little bit more laid back. I would choose any of those 2 amps in a heartbeat, but the Bryston was ALOT cheaper in Canada (Parasound are overpriced up here).

I also think Kingdaddy is exagerating a little bit here. When you reach that level of build quality and engineering, differences are more on the subtilities side then on the "major" side... They are both silent, with no noticeable noise-floor, transparent, build like tanks, and sweet sounding amps.

[nicholtl]

I agree with Levesque in the sense that at this point, you really are reaching the point of diminishing returns. Power ratings being equal, a $4000 amp will be very close to a $10,000 amp. Obviously, the $10K amp will have it's tonal and sonic characteristics that some may hold in higher regard than that of the $4k amp, but the point remains: it'll be of little audible difference or consequence. Subtle at best, even to the most discerning of trained ears. Of course there's the matter of bragging rights, but most of us aren't 23 and immature, right? Maybe only me...

In addition, Pro reviewers' articles don't count, obviously, since they're paid to be creative in their reviews and that's why everything falls on opposite ends of the spectrum, depending on advertising dollars. They make what in reality would be a negligible difference seem like comparing the sun and the moon, sea and sky, night and day.

But I do find it interesting that you proclaim the Halo's are more laid-back, Levesque. That doesn't seem to be the term that pops into my head when I think of their character.

Anyway, diminishing returns or not, we're all folks that have gone the separates route, and by that point, isn't the whole goal of this hobby to strive for nirvana? To squeeze out that extra ounce of performance, even if it does put us out another few G's? =)

[SpOoNmAn]

Maybe I can get my thoughts in without looking too biased...

You all know I have and Love my Halo amp. Some know, Jim is one, that I love Bryston amps.

I got these Halo pieces because I couldnt pass up the deals I was handed.

But I can guarantee within a year or 2(thanks to Halos high resale value), I will have an army of Brystons.

why? its that damn warranty! There is absolutely no better peace of mind in the industry. You can find good deals on them used too, and in my opinion, an used Bryston is as good as a new one.

No need to contact them either, it doesnt matter how many times their gear changes hands in that 20 years, its covered.

Now as for sound, I have not had a Bryston in my own system yet. But Ive heard them at the dealers I go to. Here is my opinion.

The Halo amps are indeed a bit more laid back. By that I mean a tad more warm sounding.

The Bryston was more neutral, it didnt color the sound at all. I like both sounds, so it comes down to the damn warranty. I tend to like a warmer sound at the end of the day, but the difference was barely noticeable.

Halos warranty is no slouch @ 10 years, but its not transferrable.

For looks, Halo hands down, but the Brystons, with their simple faceplate also gives me a tingle down yonder. :E

If the Halos had the same warranty and distortion levels, Id stay with them forever.

Ive had Outlaw and Rotel amps, and this Halo just squashed them so bad.

If I had to rate the amps Ive had/have it would look like this....

Outlaw 7.0 (price is great, excellent performers but they dont "look" so hot)
Rotel 7.5 (higher in price, look great, sound a tad better)
Halo 9.8 (orgasmic all around)

and to me a Bryston would be a 10.

Hows that for unbiased?

Now time to go watch my Halo gear light up the front end with the sexy blue glow :T

[Kingdaddy]

I’m not sure THD has anything to do with noise floor, from my experience the power supply and gain/impedance matching of the inputs and outputs are the major determining factor.

Well, I'm talking about my particular Bryston 3B, it may not be indicative of all Bryston products, anyway it's at least 10 years old, although in very good shape. My speakers are all active and every driver is directly connected to the output of the amplifier. The tiniest mismatch or glitch is heard loud and clear on my setup compared to passively decoupled speakers, so maybe this is a peculiar case and a less then perfect gain/impedance match.

IOW take it for what it is, which is just one specific setup comparison that was less then perfect.

[nicholtl]

What is the price range of the Bryston's by the way?

[jimmyp58]

This should probably be moved to 'Maunfacturer's Threads' as this is a Parasound forum.

Moderator, what do you think?

I'll comment regarding the Bryston costs after the decision is made.

Jim

[bhuskins]

Personally, I think this is good for the Halo section.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[SpOoNmAn]

Personally, I think this is good for the Halo section.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

I agree.

everone in this thread has said good things, and having the halos mentioned in the same breath as the Brystons isnt a bad thing :T

[LEVESQUE]

What is the price range of the Bryston's by the way?

Bryston just raised their prices a little bit 6-7 months ago. I just called my dealer to check for the price of the 4BSST. The best price he could do is 2700-2800$ cdn, so around 2100$-2200$ US (not really good with the strong Canadian dollar those days)... I don't think it's a "1st time customer price" tough... But still a pretty good price.

I paid my 4BSST 2000$ cdn 2 years ago :B So around 1500$ US... I know, it was a crazy price... :E Please don't send me PM...

In Australia and in Europe, Bryston prices are outrageous! Totally overpriced (compared to Canada...).

I'm talking about my particular Bryston 3B

The new SST line was a big improvement over the ST line. Maybe that's the reason why you were not impressed. The SST serie is alot better IMHO. You should try one of the new serie if you could.

[Chris D]

Well, I'll leave this here as long as Parasound is a part of the discussion, as I think this is useful to all here. Otherwise, I'll move it out.

Actually, Spoonman, I think that's some good talk you posted. Staying away from being biased. I've been impressed with Parasound's service and the 10 year warranty. I'm not familiar with Bryston--is it actually longer? Wow...

[LEVESQUE]

Bryston warranty: 20 years, transferable, no question ask. If lightning fry your amp, they usually change it for free... Wow!

[Chris D]

Spoonman, yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold comparison and contrast discussion on Parasound, Bryston, Anthem, and others. It doesn't raise or lower the status, reputation, or performance of the Parasound, they can certainly hold their own. But it's good banter.

[Chris D]

Levesque, I don't think Bryston or Anthem could ever accuse you of not being a dedicated fan.

[jimmyp58]

Thanks Chris...I just didn't want to cross the proverbial line.

O.K. here goes. Please note, these are MSRP (U.S.) prices. Each dealer MAY offer a discount (albeit a small one):

3B SST (150 watts/channel @ 8 ohms) --- $2,495
4B SST (300 watts/channel @ 8 ohms) --- $3,095
14B SST (600 watts/channel @ 8 ohms) --- $5,995

7B SST (600 watts mono-block @ 8 ohms) --- $3,295

9B SST (120 watts X 5 @ 8 ohms) --- $4,895

6B SST (300 watts/channel X 3 @ 8 ohms) --- $4,995

Jim

[jimmyp58]

They offer a 20 year fully transferable warranty on just about everything they make. Phenomenal!

Also, one thing I learned about their pre-pro (the SP 1.7 I own) is that if they come out with a newer version in the coming months/year, they will retrofit my unit to the new one. It won't be free but then again I won't have to take a beating on the used market and I won't have to spend a fortune to get the new version. Great customer commitment. They did this for the folks that bought the SP1 a few years ago. When they launched the SP 1.7, they notified the SP1 owners about it and offered the upgrade. I believe it cost the owner ~ $1,000 U.S. to make this happen. Some didn't do the upgrade for various reasons and others did. Perhaps there are some other manufacturers out there that do this but they are unknown to me.

Jim

[jimmyp58]

I forgot, they came out with the 2B SST --- 100 watts/channel @ 8 ohms. U.S. MSRP = $2,195

Jim

[SpOoNmAn]

Actually, Spoonman, I think that's some good talk you posted. Staying away from being biased. I've been impressed with Parasound's service and the 10 year warranty. I'm not familiar with Bryston--is it actually longer? Wow...

3 amps I always wanted were the Halos, Brystons and Cinenova Grandes.

The Cinenovas has the lowest distortion of them all, and the harder you push them, the better it gets.

The Brytons are just rock solid all around, and oh that warranty :E

Halos are built good, sound good, and are easiest on the eyes.

The best bang for the buck, in my opinion, goes to the Cinenovas. They can be had for rediculuously low prices, have the most power output, good warranty, and lowest distortion. But they weigh 4 tons :E

[jimmyp58]

Brent:

That would probably make you the ONLY Bryston authorized dealer in the U.S. to offer that kind of discount. In the near 10 dealers I have spoken with, each (and independent of each other) has stated that if they were to do a discount as you stated, they'd lose their dealership. Good for you if you can get away with it but....

Jim

[Brian]

Some interesting reading regarding some different amps, including Bryston.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=405527&perpage=20&pagenumber=4

[bhuskins]

Brent:

That would probably make you the ONLY Bryston authorized dealer in the U.S. to offer that kind of discount. In the near 10 dealers I have spoken with, each (and independent of each other) has stated that if they were to do a discount as you stated, they'd lose their dealership. Good for you if you can get away with it but....

Jim

Dealers that state this are using an old sleazy sales pitch in my mind. Manufacturers can only dictate advertised prices (MAP) and MSRP. What a dealer decides to sell it for is their business.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[purplepeople]

...I'm talking about my particular Bryston 3B... My speakers are all active...

The only active speaker I know of with a 3B on the back is a PMC. Oh my...are you saying that you have a full complement of PMCs? How many, which ones?

ensen.

[jimmyp58]

Brent:

You are correct in your assertion that essentially a dealer can charge what they want. And while I am not a dealer, I do work in business so I know the game of vendor and manufacturer regarding pricing. When you are speaking of highly reputable companies such as Parasound and Bryston for example, they set a price and expect their dealers to uphold that pricing (or very near to it). Why? Because they not only want to be known for high-quality products but they don't want to be lumped in with some other companies that are more volume sales consience based on the lowest price possible to simply get a sale. Those that display a track record of selling to customers at whatever they can get may suffer untoward consequences including expulsion from the dealership program. This is a known fact.

I don't want to change the thread as this is supposed to be a Parasound vs. Bryston amp conversation but I wanted to answer your statement. I am not a betting person but more than likely if either of these companies saw what you wrote on this thread yesterday, I believe they would have issues with it. Do I hear "Crazy Eddie"?!

[Kingdaddy]

The only active speaker I know of with a 3B on the back is a PMC. Oh my...are you saying that you have a full complement of PMCs? How many, which ones?

ensen.

No, not at all, my speakers are all DIY. Right now I'm using 2 Halo A-52's and and 2 Marchand active crossovers, but I've tried many amp combinations with this setup, including:

Adcom GFA555
Bryston 3B
Audio source Amp3
Sony TA-E9000ES
Carver AV405

The Halos are the best of the lot followed closely by the Sony's, the Sony amps are so good I'm keeping one for other projects.

[bhuskins]

Jimmy,

All that I can say is that I somewhat disagree. I don't want to be misconstrued that I'm trying to sell on here, so I have to be careful as to what I say. Manufacturers don't and can't cancel dealership franchises based on my or anyone else's selling prices. That's why we have MAP. Otherwise, it would be considered price setting which is illegal. MAP and MSRP are very important to the industry and I stick by them when necessary. The FINAL selling price has nothing to do with that. Bryston and Parasound both are very supportive of dealers doing what it takes to get a deal done. They both want successful dealers and do everything they can to support the dealer. I've been doing this for 11 years and not once have I ever been threatened of loosing a franchise. It's always quite the opposite...everybody wants me to sell their stuff. Ultimately, the manufacturers want to see orders and that's it. If a dealer keeps his volume up, he won't be bothered about how to run his business unless he breaks some basic rules like selling on eBay, etc.. I only say all of this because you ask and that is what I've experienced over the years being in this market.

If you want to know more about all of this, feel free to PM me. That way we don't hijack the thread.

Brent Huskins
Media Design

[KathyMason]

I like Parasound and Rotel better than Bryston

:E
Before I bought my Rotel RB-1090 Amp, I listened to so many 2-channel Amps and after I listened to 3 different Bryston models, my very first thought was that I didn't understand all the "must have" fuss with Bryston's.

I didn't care for the too neutral sound it gives and more towards too clinical as many describe it but I must say that I do tend to like more to the slighty warm side and that is certainly how Parasound and Rotel are compared to Bryston. Also, Bryston cost about $1200.00 or more with comparable models I was evaluating and I wasn't willing to pay more for what I could get more affordable, even though the others were still expensive to me. It has a 20 year warrenty but I certainly don't want to pay that much more for that! I was also so surprised how hollow the Bryston was inside for the price. It was mostly circuit board inside with a small transformer and I couldn't see any capacitors at all but the salesman said he thinks there are two but just not viewable through the vent. My Rotel RB-1090 has an excellent build quality with two very large 1.2va transformers and 8 very large capacitors, almost the size of pop cans. I admit that I know nothing about cirucuit board layouts and capacitors but I just don't see the price difference there with how much Bryston asks, so I think you are paying more for the name, much like lifes other brand names in the market place.

Anyway, I heard nothing more with the Bryston to convince me I had to have it. If there was a difference..... it is so minimal that I couldn't really pick up on it, in that case....... I would much rather pay the $1200.00 less for myself.
I know others may feel very different than me and who have the extra to dough out. This is only my own findings so I know others will feel different but it just left me wondering "Why all this fuss about Bryston".

Kathy

[jimmyp58]

Econ 101 Kathy....If you buy a Bryston 4B SST @ MSRP (U.S.) that will cost you ~ $3,200. If you buy a Rotel RB-1090 that will cost you $2,000 MSRP (U.S.). You are dead-on that today, the Bryston will cost you $1,200 more.

Lets assume for a minute that it is a push as far as the sonics go (I know you don't feel that way from your previous post but just play along if you can).

Bryston warranty is 20 years and it is fully transferable. Rotel warranty is 5 years and it is not transferable. 7 years from now, the Rotel blows up (for whatever reason). Second-worst possible scenario occurs, entire channel fries. That'll cost you a cool $1,400 to repair (if they will even support the product 7 years from now). Hhmmmm, how's the life-time value holding up? O.K., so it is only $200 difference and you've had 7 great years. What if Rotel won't support it or it cannot be repaired --- worst-case scenario? Now what is the difference???!!!

Bryston amps are built for a mean-time to failure of roughly 95+ years. Heck, my great grandchildren may still be able to use the amp if this is indeed true.

I sense Kathy, from reading a few of your posts over the last few days, you simply don't like Bryston. That is fine. Can I ask that you keep the inane Bryston 'snobbery' comments to an offline discussion (like a PM or e-mail)? I responded over at Club Rotel regarding one of your other posts on this but again, if you like Rotel or Parasound, hey, no problem/argument from me on that. But there is no reason for the potshot comments you've made. If you have an issue with a particular person, especially if you've read my posts and you feel I am worthy of this targeted slander, please take it offline. We can all agree, I am sure, that we don't need flame wars going on here.

Thanks....

Jim

P.S. If you do your homework, you'll find Bryston dealers that value their customers and provide a nice discount. By doing so, you lessen the delta and increase the value. That is, if you even like the sound.

[Aussie Geoff]

Let's all think calming thoughts....

Hi,

I suspect we are all getting too intense here. Different folks like different things about amplifiers and their sounds...

I worries me to see posts that start to become personal...

Really there are people who love Rotel / Parasound / Bryston best and the amps models we are talking about are all great amps - well respected - great reviews, passionate owners who bought them for a reason that was important to them. = Price / Warantee / Warmth / Detail / Control / Punch / Transparency / Tight Bass - what turns us on in amps varies....

IMO it's alright of someone doesn't like / agree / think the amp that any one of us likes is as good as we think....

Let's just not make it personal....

PS - Remember an increasing proportion of the world is happy with the sound of their MP3s!!!!! and we are getting intense over what to them would seem very subtle nuances of sound...

Geoff

[nicholtl]

Hi,
PS - Remember an increasing proportion of the world is happy with the sound of their MP3s!!!!! and we are getting intense over what to them would seem very subtle nuances of sound...
Geoff

That is so incredibly true. I've always thought we audio enthusiasts were such a specialized niche. We seem to have no problem sitting down, closing our eyes, and listening to music for an hour or two on end in the same fashion others sit down to watch a movie or read a book. It's almost like a passtime, if you will.

Personally, in real life (as opposed to online forums), I've never known anybody, be it my family or my peers, who do this. Music is simply something they play in their cars when driving to and from work, as MP3's on their computer as they surf the net, or on the stereo as background music as they prepare dinner or go about their daily routines. NOBODY I know actually sits down and just listens to music for that sole purpose. To listen.

And here we are debating, discussing, and sometimes arguing about minute differences and tonal shifts like they were night and day. I guess it's a bad thing when it gets heated and rude, but it can also be taken as a positive thing because it serves to show just how passionate and "into" this we are. I only wish everyone I knew on these forums, I knew in real life. It's not easy when I try to tell a friend the benefit of power conditioning, and all I receive is blank stare followed by a "yeah, whatever dude."

[Chris D]

Well, yes, let's keep the personal experiences coming with various pieces of equipment. I have no problem with people expressing their opinions, as long as they're not putting down other peoples' opinions and choices.

[will1066]

I don't like opinions. They're too opinionated.

[KathyMason]

Hi Jimmy Jim,

You've got me all wrong. I was expressing why I picked the Rotel over the Bryston.
Not all of us are willing to pay the extra $$$ that Bryston's cost. Yes.... it does come with a 20 year warranty. I've always been more value for my $$$. The 20 year warranty isn't something that I'm willing to pay $1200.00 more for. Rotel has an excellent reputation of lasting just as long so I really don't have any worries there.
If I do, I'll deal with it then.

I'm not trying to flame, just my opinion why I don't want to pay for something more than what I found for less, I thought I could be more helpful to others that view things simular to myself that are more value for you $$$. Please don't take it personal, that wasn't my intentions. I was just trying to be helpful as I wish someone could have told me the same to narrow down my search.
Thanks, Kathy

[ekkoville]

Well Kathy, sounds like you "hit ground running" as they say!!