Many tough questions about the C2’s abilities to manage a very complex system, Parasound Tech Rep couldn’t come close to answering.

[Kingdaddy]

Finally I found a dedicated forum for the Halo series components; I’ve been looking for nearly a month and have not found any specific sites for the new Parasound equipment, until now. I was previously a regular at the EZ board on the TA-E9000ES forum and have found these kind of specific forums indispensable for equipment specific info and setup, plus it’s nice to have a whole community sharing there opinions about the same equipment. First off let me say that I have not purchased any Halo gear yet, but it is at the top of my list for replacing my aged Sony TAE9K gear, and I think some of you can probably help me decide if the C2 can do what I need it to.

Let me explain my existing system first as it is quite complicated and different that your typical HT setup. First off, my entire system (all 5 speakers) is all Active using outboard electronic crossovers from Marchand electronics with a total of 16 channels and 9 separate speakers in a 5.1 configuration.

Electronics
Marchand XM9-3KK (3-ch) LR24db
Marchand XM-44-4 (4-way) 6, 12, 18, 24 or 48db asymmetric slopes
Sony TA-E9000ES Pre/Pro
2- Sony TA-N9000ES 5-ch amps
Adcom GFA-555 2-ch amp
Bryston 3B 2-ch amp
Mackie 1400i 2-ch Sub amp

Speakers
All DIY
Fronts are 3-way with a separate bass modules 2.8KHz and up for the Vifa XT25 Tweeters 2.8K-62Hz for the SS8530 Midbass drivers and 150Hz and down for the ACI 12 Bass modules. Surrounds and center speakers are 2-way using Toby woofers and Vifa XT tweeters. Subwoofers are two Adire 18”Maelstrom Sonosubs with a BFD PEQ and Port Valves that allow the ports to be sealed for Music listening. I also have 4 Aura bass shaker Pro’s on the Bryston amp.

Things are setup pretty well right now but the Sony Bass Management is a bit of a problem with this configuration. Since I have outboard Active crossovers handling all the X-Points I need my front set to “Large” and the rest set to “Small”, but this kills the Sub output and only routes the LFE info from the surround and center to the Sub out, I need all speakers LFE and bass info below the built in bass management X-point to be routed to the Sub output. In other words I need the front Large setting to act like it’s set to Small. From what I can tell by reading the C2 Manual the EBASS (Enhanced Bass) should do this but it’s a bit vague on what exactly it’s doing, and I’m a little confused on the separation of LFE and sub bass below the Pre/Pro’s front X-point. Can anyone help me understand what this ebass feature is doing exactly, not even the Parasound Tech Rep could explain it to me, he just quoted what the manual said but I could tell he didn’t relly know from first hand experience. I have a audition scheduled at the end of March from a local dealer here in Fort Worth TX that will bring out a C2 and 2 A52 and allow me to have it for a few days so I will probably be able to clear up all my quandaries then but I would like to know in advance so I can check out some other Pre/Pros that might do the same thing. Another problem is the Bass shakers, I need a dedicated output that had a level adjustment so I don’t have to fiddle with the input gain adjustments on the Bryston amp every time I listen to music plus some content need more and some need less to get the realistic feel.

I listen to a lot of Music and I absolutely love Multi-channel Music, so the more Multi-channel music modes the better, and it must have a dead quite noise floor, this is the one thing I don’t like about my Sony.

Here is my short list.

Top contender is the Halo C2 and 2 A52’s, one A52 for the 5 Tweeters and one for the front Midbass, center and surround woofers, the rest of my existing amps for the stereo Subwoofers, front main bass modules and tactile transducers.

Next would be the Moon A-V7.1, Anthem AV20 or a used Krell HTS 7.1, any ideas on how the Halo would fair against these Pre/Pros? Also it would be nice if I could hook up a Digital crossover like the Behringer DCX-2496 but I don’t think the Digital inputs on the C2 will work for this, anyone know for sure?

Thanks for any suggestions and comments, I know most wont be able to help as my system and needs are a bit extreme, but I would appreciate any help so I can narrow my auditioning down to a few (it’s a real pain to jack in about a zillion cables to hook up a new system just for an audition).

Here is my newly updated website with pictures of my DIY speakers, sorry but it’s bandwidth limited so only the first 5 or 6 will be able to view each day.

http://www.geocities.com/kingdaddykeith/Kingdaddys_DIY_Projects.html?1078331

[Lex]

I don't have the answers, so don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.

First, I'm glad you found this forum Kingdaddy. I think you will find we have an enthusiastic, albeit small bunch here. Goodluck working through the answers.

Next, I'd like to invite you to post your setup over at our DIY area, and show the boys here. They may pant a little bit as they get excited, but they are for the most part, relatively harmless. :LOL:

Fantastic job on your speakers. You do great work! The speakers sort of remind me of bongos. The subs look like percolating beauties!

Lex




Cable Guy DVD Collection

[goose]

If I understand your situation, I think turning Enhanced Bass to "ON" will do what your wanting.
Turning Enhanced Bass on sends all freq. below the crossover point to the sub, in addition to the LFE signal. If you have traditional large mains capable of producing low frequencies, then you may get a doubling of bass. You may also be doubling the bass in your situation. The front main bass units will be getting info below the crossover point, and so will the sub.

A better option may be to use the 2 progammable channels that the Halo offers. You can experiment with what info is sent to those channels, adding low pass or high pass filters and setting the crossover frequencies.
Leave all the speakers set to small but use the 2 programmable channels for only the front bass modules, sending them the front main info below whatever crossover setting you set. That may give your front main bass modules the proper info while keeping everything else in line as well.

[Scarp]

Hi,

Welcome to HTGuide and thanks for such a terrific topic title!

One thing is not clear to me, why do the fronts have to get the full range, since you will filter it anyway? Filtering bass away in the Pre/pro seems like a better option.

Anyway, you can set the fronts to large and enhanced bass to ON. What this does is duplicate bass below the crossover from the fronts and feed it to the subwoofer output. So both your fronts and the subwoofer will get this signal. Besides that the subwoofer will have the bass of the small speakers and the LFE offcourse.

Another option is indeed to use the programmable outputs. You can keep the fronts as large and program one of the programmable outputs as giving 100% LFE + 30% L + 30% C + 30% R or something similar. With the programmable output you can set two crossovers (high pass or lowpass) and when you select two low pass crossovers at the same frequency, you will get a 24 dB per octave crossover filter. The weigh factors do take a bit to tweak with though
If you want you can use both and if you have two subwoofers put one to the left of your listening position and another to the right and even mix a bit more left into the one, and a bit more right into the other one. So quite a lot of possibilities.

Hopefully, this answers your question a bit. If not, then ask more

[Kingdaddy]

Thanks guys for the warm welcome, I’m sure if I decide to buy the Halo gear this will be a great resource and a place I would like to hang out. I’m a bit of a DIY fanatic and although I often build my own electronics and switch boxes my real passion is building speakers and of course listening to Music and Movies, especially DVD concerts. I believe that multi-channel Music is the future and so far I love the sound I get when listening to 5.1 DTS mixed audio. I’ve tried the SACD thing and was very unimpressed, mostly due to the lack of Bass Management, plus I couldn’t tell any difference between the down mixed PCM version and the DSD analog pass-through version. All of this is leading me to believe that the quality of the recording is what’s most important and not any new format or hardware, so far the best upgrade I have found is a great recording.

Lex, Goos & Scrap:
I’ve recently discovered that I have been missing a lot by having my system setup the traditional way, but since I have let my main monitors overlap my main Bass modules the midrange is much more full and realistic, it’s like I got a whole new system (Mid are HP @ 62Hz, and Woofers are LP @ 150Hz). So far nearly every Audio Rule of Thumb I’ve read about seems to be inaccurate, at least for my particular setup. Overlapping the very low registers may not work due to cancellation but a PEQ can do more than most people think without any side effects. So far having maximum adjustability and flexibility has been a great learning tool, so I want to experiment with some different slopes and the overlap to see if I can get the real low end punch that I know these subs are capable of, I feel I’m very close to making my system sound the way I have always desired, the only thing lacking is the Sub frequencies integration with the front Mains. With my subs directly connected to the Sony Pre (sub out @80Hz) and the Front set to “Small” the subs have enough output to blur your vision, but when set to large and my outboard crossover handling the sub a lot of content is lost, and it’s difficult to adjust levels.

Basically I need the Pre/Pro to give me variable gain control of the stereo subs and the bass shakers independantly via remote control. I’m not real sure how versatile the Programmable outputs are on the Halo, do they have separate Level and frequency control? I still need a separate output for my tactile transducers that has separate level and frequency controls, the 20Hz dedicated output is just too low (not much going on below 20HZ) and there is no level control according to the Tech Rep at Parasound.

Thanks for your responses.

[Chris D]

Kingdaddy, you win the Double Secret Award for Longest and Most Explicit Title of a Topic. The DSALMETT has never before been awarded, but you are the first recipient. Welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound as well!
:banana:

I too am a little confused about your needs and why exactly you're going about bass crossovers in that way. However, it seems like the Ebass will help you out.

As far as tactile transducers go, I can pretty much guarantee that the Halo equipment will do BY FAR the best job of setting up your TST's of any A/V equipment out there. The variable uses of te programmable channels on the Halo is something that to my knowledge is unmatched by any other unit on the market at any price level. The set transducer output on the C1/2 is a very good solution for users who want the capability without having to go through details of customization and setup. For many advanced users, it is a better option to use the 2 fully programmable channels and completely build what channel you want for your TST with mixes and crossovers. As far as level control on the channel, though, hmmmm.... I'll have to look into that when I get home, but I think that may be more difficult. My Clark Synthesis TST's are "volume" controlled on the amplifiers that drive them, not on the Halo.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Kingdaddy]

Kingdaddy, you win the Double Secret Award for Longest and Most Explicit Title of a Topic. The DSALMETT has never before been awarded, but you are the first recipient. Welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound as well!
:banana:

I would like to thank the Academy for this award and ….., naw never mind.

I’m usually not this wordy but I wanted to make a statement that would get noticed, I’m very seriously thinking about buying a rack of Halo gear but it will be by far the most I’ve ever spent on any one single purchase to date, so I want to know everything I can about this Pre/Pro before I schedule a demo. I’m still a little worried about the Noise Floor though; I read another thread where someone mentioned this, noise is one of my peeves. I don’t want to waste this guys time unless I’m ready to buy, that’s a lot of work for both of us to switch out all this gear, you should see all the cables I got in my rack, it’s scary. I think the Halo gear will do what I want and for a fare price so I’ll go ahead and make an appointment as soon as I get my new furniture in the listening area, hopefully next week some time.

[Chris D]

Whosyourdaddy, I know what you mean. My Halo equipment are by FAR the most I've ever spent on A/V equipment, with the speaker set 2nd. I think you're going to be very pleased with the Halo gear. I wouldn't worry about noise floor, in general this is not a common problem with Parasound equipment. Is Brent Huskins hooking you up there in DFW? Whoever is doing the demo for you, it will be better if you're experiencing Halo equipment that has been broken in, not sets that are new out of the box. Many people report that their Halo equipment gives a better and better peformance after a proper break-in period.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[Kingdaddy]

Chris:

Yes, Brent Huskins is the man, very nice gentleman, but he’s going on a Skiing vacation this week so I’ll have to wait until the end of March. BTW What’s with the avatar, you’re not by any chance a C17 pilot are you? I work in aviation myself.

[Chris D]

I am a C-17 pilot, actually! A Captain in the Air Force. DFW has a soft spot in my heart, as I've spent a lot of time there and may retire there someday. I've done a lot of car work at Alamo Autosports in Arlington, and the owner is a good friend of mine.




CHRIS
Luke: "Hey, I'm not such a bad pilot myself, you know"

[goose]

KingDaddy,
Are you aware of the Dallas Home Theater Group?
http://dhtg.napurano.com/dhtgweb/dhtgcgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
Just thought I'd mention it in case you weren't.