Passive Aria 5a+actively XO'ed bass unit

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  • Brandon B
    Super Senior Member
    • Jun 2001
    • 2193

    Passive Aria 5a+actively XO'ed bass unit

    Since I am stalled on dual HE15 by delays on the parts and my new dilemna of whether to go ported or use the PR's, I guess I'll look for some feedback on the rest of the system I am building.

    I am building a 7 speaker surround setup which will hopefully perform musically as well. It is to consist of 7 of the Orca Design Aria 5A MTM, 2 Focal 5K4211's and an Accuton c2-12 8 ohm tweeter (note: I've already purchased all drivers, so suggestions for alternates aren't really what I am looking for).

    Back and side surrounds are to be built nearly exactly to the original design (larger radii on the cabinet edges is the only real deviation).

    Front 3, however, will be different as follows:

    A) Replacing 5K4211 with Utopia 5W4252 (Orca is supposedly releasing a modified XO for the regular Aria 5 with this driver, but I have not been able to find out if they have done so and where to get it from anyone). Since the low pass portion of the Aria 5 and 5A were the same, I was going to base mine on this.

    B) Going to 1.5" thick cabinets and adding 2 horizontal cross braces. Maintaining internal volume by increasing height and depth of cabinet internally, so baffle is nearly same width.

    C) For each, adding a bass module which is to be a Lambda SB10 in a 2.5 cu. ft. sealed cabinet. Each of these Aria/bass combos is to be powered by a Marchand XP59 powered XO crossed at 250 Hz.

    I'm looking to have these units cover strongly down to about 30Hz. My intent is when listening to 2 channel music, possibly not use the sub (which is to be a Stryke dual power 15 with 6 PR's unless I change my mind and make it ported). Only when doing 7 channel listening or HT would I use the sub (unless it turns out I like it better otherwise).

    Last wrinkle is the center channel. I've followed a half dozen threads on various forums about MTM centers, including Patrick's, and Bob Sorel & Mark Seaton's on AVS. So I am pretty familiar with the issues as far as center being responsible for a high percentage of output in HT, combing of the midbasses as it relates to driver spacing, driver passband and XO's. I have room to build a squashed Aria 5A where the driver frames would butt right against each other, but I was leaning towards taking the "tweeter up, mids together" path just because of aesthetics. However, since I am not doing the WTMW format for this speaker as I wanted to keep the drivers identical to front L and R, I'm thinking that with the midbasses crossed at 3KHz, I might get combing at my seating position even if I bring them all the way together. So the question(s) is(are), is this so, and if I go with a squished regular MTM instead, does this necessitate any changes to the XO for the unaltered Aria 5A?

    I am also looking for feedback on Marchand's amp products (the XP59 is essentially an XM9 active XO integrated with their MB201 250W MOSFET amp, 125/Ch into 8 ohms. I've checked everywhere I could find, web-wise, for opinions on his amps, and the only reference I found was someone who was in the process of building an MB201 at AudioAsylum. I'm guessing they are decent quality and I'm sure they are sufficiently powerful, but with the amount I've blown on drivers, I want to make sure my amps are in line. If not, I would probably just buy XM9's and go with another amp. But my plan was to integrate the Marchand unit onto the backs of the bass modules and so only have to run a single line level connect to each speaker. So does anyone have a reference to compare these to? My alternative was an ODG odyssey.

    OK, shutting up now.

    Comments and critiques?

    BB
  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10934

    #2
    Brandon

    This seems like a very nice selection of speakers

    Regarding the 5" midwoofers, it would be impossible to differenciate between these based on specs alone. The only way to tell which is better is to audition them in the same baffle. Zalytron just dropped the price on the Utopia model. Sales usually indicates that the item isn't selling. I don't know if this is a reflection of performance.

    Yes, go with 1.5" for the cabinet wall thickness, and use oak 1"X2"s for wall, and side to side bracing.

    Not sure about the Marchand units. They are a little pricy and probably sound ok. But I'm always in favor of keeping things separate in case of component failure. So I'd suggest the separate XM9 and a nice amp.

    Finally I think it's important to keep the vertical MTM config for center channels. I've had both, vertical and horizontal, and vertical just works better IMO.




    theAudioWorx
    Klone-Audio

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • Brandon B
      Super Senior Member
      • Jun 2001
      • 2193

      #3
      I actually already have the 5W's and the 5K's. THe 5W's were for my front 3 speakers, since I didn't see the need for the extra cost to use them all around, given that the 5K's are still a very nice driver. From the reports I've read, the 5W4252 is a very nice driver, though it probably doesn't sell well at the steep price bumpover the 5K though ($109 vs. $77). I of course bought mine a few weeks ago BEFORE they went on sale. Crud.

      So sounds like I should stick with the vertical MTM, but still curious, does bringing all 3 drivers together further than the original design had them compromise things in any way, i.e. require XO mods? It seems to me it should not, other than possibly creating internal cabinet dimensions that are bad ratios. Is this accurate?

      BB

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15271

        #4
        Hi Brandon,

        I wholly endorse using the Aria's with an additional woofer system below 250 Hz; the 5's runn out of radiation resistance and room loading below that range.

        Regarding your center channel, are you using the original Aria 5 crossover, which if memory serves me correct is a 2nd order L-R? Even order L-R crossovers in MTM minimize the driver work, but they have a narrower window at the crossover region on the axis between the two woofers. If doing a horizontal MTM, the only configuration I'd consider is 3rd order; this gets a fairly good lateral window. Moving the midwoofers as close as possible to each other, and offsetting the tweeter will change the lobing pattern (dispersion) somewhat, but shouldn't necessitate any crossover changes.

        Otherwise, follow ThomasW's recommendation and go vertical if at all possible.
        Another issue about MTM's is crossover frequency. At the crossover frequency, the size of the radiator is the spacing between the two drivers, which for five's with a tweeter between them results in a height over a foot. This will always make for a narrow vertical window at 3 kHz, regardless of the crossover behavior.

        Another question to ponder, is the driver truely pistonic in that region, up to 3-4 kHz?

        BTW, I think the Accuton tweeters and the 2" dome mid are great; I prefer the Accuton C23 for two way systems, as you can take the crossover as low as 1.4 kHz with the right design. Get's out of the problem area of cone drivers, and assures the tweeter and cone will both have wide dispersion (i.e., uniform power and axial response) in the room.

        Keep us posted on how your system is coming along- have you already built the Aria5's?

        Regards,

        Jon




        Earth First!
        _______________________________
        We'll screw up the other planets later....
        the AudioWorx
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        Comment

        • Brandon B
          Super Senior Member
          • Jun 2001
          • 2193

          #5
          Orca had a specific XO for the Aria 5A which was different in the high pass. It's a 3rd order high pass and a 2nd order lowpass, with the lowpass portion identical to the regular Aria. That's why I was figuring it would be OK to just use the same lowpass for the Utopia drivers if they updated the regular Aria schematic for that driver. Mids are paralleled.

          Center to center spacing for the mids is actually 9.5" on this design. If I do a squished vertical MTM, it would drop to 8.6". If I went with horizontal, mid to mid spacing would be 8" or less (I can get it as small as 5.4" if I jam them right together). Since I actually can do the short vertical MTM, I think I will just go that route. Since it doesn't require a different XO, I can always rebuild the cabinet later if I change my mind.

          The C2-12 says it can cross as low as 2KHz, but since this is my first major project, I am hesitant to deviate from Dr. D'Appolito's XO, since it is an established and well thought of kit design, and I have seen no talk of it needing a better XO (like the references you see for the Gemini's XO). He has, however, gone through 3 iterations on the Raven version of the Aria, so it maybe that his interest lies more in that version. I don't know.

          The Freq. response plot for the focal can be found here:
          http://www.orcadesign.com/focal/www/000start.htm

          It looks pretty good up to 4K, although it's only smooth up to 2K. I'm making my XO's externally accessible, so it's fixable (X7, grumble) in the future if I determine there's a problem.

          Edit: OK I just looked at the XO again and realized it's at 2.5KHz. Don't know why I had 3K stuck in my head. That helps a little.

          Regarding Thomas' response about Marchand XMP59's: Since I am doing all 3 fronts this way, there isn't a ready made Marchand product to do this. I'd end up needing 2 of his units or a custom built one. Basically, I was going to end up with the 3 active XO's and 6 channels of amplification all for under $2K (he discounts for pairs or multiples, and I was going to go the EZ kit route, boards already stuffed, assmble it your self). If I go the other way, it will probably be closer to $4K to do it, as I'll ned 3 2ch or 2 3ch amps (I was leaning towards ODG Ofysseys), 1 custom 3ch 2 way marchand XO, or 2 regular ones, plus a bunch more expensive speaker wire. I've emailed Marchand directly to try to get a feel for what they consider their peers in sound as far as amps, but no response.

          As far as component failure, since all the internals are readily accessible and assmbled by me, it would be pretty easy to swap out a board or even a circuit element if something went bad.

          I haven't quite started construction. My family and I just returned from 2 years in Tokyo at the end of June, and we're still getting stuff in place, like the garage where I am putting together my woodshop. So I'm basically gathering the components together and should begin sawing MDF in September. Also waiting on my Lambda's, as they fell behind in production this summer and I don't have my woofs yet.

          Thanks a lot for your thoughts.

          BB

          Comment

          • ThomasW
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 10934

            #6
            Well here's the plot of the tweeter



            And yes it goes below 2K, but both Jon and I think it's always better to operate a driver an octave or so above it's lower flattest response. This would mean XOing around 3K or higher to safely operate the driver at high SPL's. But....

            You've got this midwoofer



            And yea, it's gets pretty ragged up high.

            So I'd wonder about using the new bigger Accutron 1.2" tweeter, if that's possible.

            I've been a very satisfied customer of Phil Marchand for more than 9 years, I have 4-XM9's both 2 and 3-way, 1-XM6, 1-XM8. I don't believe he's going to give you a comparison of power amps.

            If you can solder reasonably well, and have the ability to identify components, the KK models are a great value for the money.

            Since you're in Canada take a long hard look at the Anthem amps from Sonic Frontiers. These are fine sounding amps for the money.




            theAudioWorx
            Klone-Audio

            IB subwoofer FAQ page


            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15271

              #7
              Good morning Brandon and Thomas,

              Still clearing the cobwebs away this AM, but sometimes a little mental activity with speakers is great for that.

              For the most complete info on Focal drivers, go to their own site, here's the page for the poly kevlar 5's, which offers the dim drawings, frequency plot, Impedance plot, LF sim, etc.



              Just interpreting a frequency response plot for "problems" can be misleading- it depends on the smoothing involved, and sometimes things look "bad" that aren't actually, because of diffraction effects in the original measurement.

              One measurement I've found to be unusually helpful, which many people alsmot ignore, is the impedance plot. This is true for both raw drivers and the finished speakers. For the basic driver without crossover, the impedance plot can help you spot potential problem areas to look at more closely. This happens because when the cone starts to go into breakup or modal modes, the change in loading from a mechanical viewpoint is reflected back into the impedance plot. The trick is to look for little "wrinkles" in the impedance plot, which shouldn't be there. Now, I don't really fully trust data taken by someone else, there's always the possiblity of the measurment system being "out of wack"; I've particularly seen this in some of the cheaper sound card/measurement software combos for the PC.

              But lets look at the impedance plot of the 5K4211.



              See the sort of hump/wringle spread out around 1.5kHz to 1.8kHz? This could be a measurement artifact, or it could be a valid (albeit possibly minor) symptom.

              Looking at the frequency response,



              things look pretty good in that area- so it may be a measurement artifact. But those are the kinds of things I look for in response plots as "clues" when selecting a driver, and developing the crossover.

              I'm working on a "low cost" 8" two way design (normally consdiered a "heresy" or lost cause), and this is a technique that's enabled me to rule out a lot of drivers pretty quickly. (BTW, if an 8" two way seems silly, go listen to an Avalon Elcipse sometimes- 8" Eton woofer, modified 1" MB tweeter, the same as I have been using in many designs for years).

              Regarding the tweeter, the Accuton C23 is shown below



              Most importantly, the resonance is below 500 Hz, and for 4th order LR crossover, 1.4 kHz works well, which keep one out of the problem areas of most cone mid-bass drivers.

              I am somewhat fanatical about emphsizing that one of the most basic and important parameters for achieving high clarity and fatigue free listening with dynamic speakers is staying within the pistonic range of the driver. Both ThomasW and I have a fair amount of experience with electrostatics and other planar drivers that are essentially free of resonance or breakup modes in the midrange or treble, which is why we probalby seem so weird to the folks that routinely crossover poly cone drivers at three kilohertz to soft dome tweeters....

              Also, considering the work a home contructor puts into developing and building these speakers, it makes sense to take a lot of care in picking the drivers and crossover carefully, as the driver cost, while hardly insignificant, is matched and then some by a lot of time, sweat, and effort on your own part.

              Best regards, and happy constructing and listening.

              -Jon




              Earth First!
              _______________________________
              We'll screw up the other planets later....
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
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              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
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              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • Brandon B
                Super Senior Member
                • Jun 2001
                • 2193

                #8
                OK, couple additions. I realized in this discussion I was using data for the 5K4211, which I am only using in my 4 surrounds. I looked at the same graphs for the utopia driver (5W4252) that I'm using in my front 3, and it is a bit different. Couldn't find it on the Focal/JMLab site, but Zalytron posts it here:

                http://www.zalytron.com/pictures/5WSpecifications.pdf

                The impedance plot is largely same (same blip), and immpedance comes up a little more sharply, still under 20 in the range I would be using it in. The frequency response is smoother up into the 4K region. This should help where you guys were expressing concern.

                On the tweeter waterfall plot, that is for the C2-12 6, whereas I have the C2-12 8. I have no idea if and how these differ, though. I also found only references to the C2-12 6 and 4, nothing on the 8.

                Thomas, why do you think I live in Canada? (L.A., CA area actually). Also, while the C23 does look a little better, I have already bought all my drivers and am probably going to try and make a go with them rather than try and resell them. I did look at the Anthem amps and at one point had planned them into the system before I was going semi active. I started kicking this whole plan around last year while I was still in Tokyo, and went through the whole "upgrade itch" cycle several times before I had spent any cash, which is how I ended up here.

                Anyway, if you guys have time, let me know if you think the utopia's slightly immproved performance is enough to make it look good crossed at 3KHz.

                Once I get this nailed down, I can start ordering parts for my XOs.

                Thanks again.

                BB

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 15271

                  #9
                  Hi Brandon,

                  The 5W4252 is remarkably well behaved on axis. It would be interesting if they posted 30 degree off axis plots like they do for most of the other Focal drivers. Like other phase plug equipped Focals, it has that blip in the impedance curve in the area of 1.2 to 1.4 kHz.

                  How are you constructing your cabinets for these drivers? One thing I've found a problem with a lot of high performance 5" drivers, is that the magnet is so large that it obscures the backwave of the driver with a normal size mounting hole. I used to use some SEAS 5" drivers as mids back in the 80's, which had a chasis construction similar to these Focals. The only way I found to get an unobscured back wave with thick baffle walls was to make an aluminum mounting plat (3/16" or 1/4" thick, with the woof baffle holes cut larger than you would use to mount the driver. Even with just a 1" MDF baffle, about 2/3 of the rear space between the mounting flange and the magnet of the driver is obscured. A recent article (recent = last year or two) showed that as I suspected, this does create problems in the final response.

                  Maybe routing the front panel and recessing the driver slightly would help, if you must use a standard MDF panel.

                  On another topic, I took a look at the crossover updates for the Aria 5- it looks like they've been steadily upping the crossover order on the Raven tweeter, probably to give it more protection at the crossover point.

                  Regarding a 3 kHz crossover with the 5's, something you might want to try as an experiment if you're getting in some Marchand crossover/amp combo's, is to listen and measure using the active crossover on one of the cabinets, and try it at 2, 2.5, and 3 kHz. Keep the playback levels reasonable, and set the Q control so that the individual slopes are -6dB, at least at first. Because of the time offset of the drivers (typically 50-65 usec for drivers like these), you'll need to have some a little bit of lift in the crossover reason becuase they won't sum in a "theoretically" ideal way on axis at -6 dB.

                  Listen for dispersion off axis, vertical dispersion, etc. Pink noise is a good test to use, as it's very easy for the ear to hear small differences in tonal balance quite quickly.

                  I'd be concerned about running a 5" driver to 3 kHz, mostly for dispersion, which you can't really model with a more complex construction like a cone with a phase plug. Listening and measuring is the only way to go.

                  My general guides for LP xover point (based on dispersion, assuming no cone breakup or modal issues is 1-1.2 kHz for 8" drivers, 1.4-1.6 kHz for 7" drivers, 2 kHz for 5" drivers, 4 kHz for 2" drivers (dome mids). Crossing over higher just results in increased directionality, and not quite as flat a room power response. Also, off axis imaging suffers a little. The degree depends on the frequency. Obviously, many might dispute these recommendations; there are folks crossing over 7" drivers at 3 kHz, for example. Often power handling considerations for the higher range driver are at work, or keeping the cost down in the crossover (fewer orders = lower cost).

                  Regarding the LF crossover, the characteristics of the two Focal's look very close. In practice you might find more driver to driver variation of the same type. It's probably reasonable to proceed for you mains using the same crossover; only a small adjustment of the woofer zobel might be necessary to trim the response- given the slightly different impedance curves.

                  It sounds to me like you're going to have a very nice system when your finished, and of course, a fair amount of additional pride of ownership since you'll have built it yourself.

                  Best regards,

                  Jon




                  Earth First!
                  _______________________________
                  We'll screw up the other planets later....
                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
                  Modula Neo DCC
                  Modula MT XE
                  Modula Xtreme
                  Isiris
                  Wavecor Ardent

                  SMJ
                  Minerva Monitor
                  Calliope
                  Ardent D

                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                  Modula PWB
                  Calliope CC Supreme
                  Natalie P Ultra
                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10934

                    #10
                    Brandon

                    Sorry my bad.... was looking at a post from someone from Canada and at the same time responsing to your post......

                    Do pay special attention to what Jon says about the baffle thickness for mounting the 5" drivers. It's very important not to obsecure/block the rear wave of the little midwoofers.




                    theAudioWorx
                    Klone-Audio

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • Brandon B
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Jun 2001
                      • 2193

                      #11
                      Thanks again. Since the baffle is also 1.5" with the drivers flush mounted, it's probably a very good idea to do something to open up the mid cutouts. Luckily, I work at a place with a machine shop and a laer cutting bench. My friend had generated router guides for the baffle from CAD on the laser cutter, so I can modify that to flare the opening back and do a bracket to capture the 4 mounting screws.

                      I was thinking about ordering some extra XO freq modules for the Marchand units, so I could experiment with them on the Arias, with the thought down the road of triamping them instead of the active biamp/passive XO hybrid they will be at first. Sounds like that is definitely worth doing.

                      I should be postinng pictures of this effort in 2-3 weeks.

                      BB

                      Comment

                      • nismoron
                        Junior Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 10

                        #12
                        Hey guys. Sorry to drag up an old post but I am doing something very similar here and wanted to see how this turned out. I also wanted to get your take on what I am doing...

                        I am using Aria 5's that I built a few years ago as fronts. Mine have the 5K4211 and TD90K tweeters. I am wanting to build new cabinets for them with a pair of Focal 10L6411's in the bottom to make a MTMWW. The TMT crossover is 18db at 2200hz. I was thinking of making the Mid to woofer crossover int he 250hz range at 6db. It this does not work out well then I may go active on the crossover. I am probably going to eventually bi-amp anyway.

                        My main question here is should I retain the Aria 5 ported cabinet design for the top and just add the woofer cabinet below. Or should I redesign the enclosure for the mids to be sealed? If so, should I put the sealed cabinet for the mids with an F3 that coincides with the crossover freq? I want to build all of this into one big 5ish ft cabinet.

                        For the record, the Aria 5 is something like as follows:
                        Volume: .76ft
                        Port 3" X 6" long
                        Tuned to 58hz

                        Comment

                        • Brandon B
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Jun 2001
                          • 2193

                          #13
                          Wow. Ooooooooooold thread.

                          In their current incarnation, which is in a second system for music, these are as follows:

                          Left them ported. Originally XOed at 250 with a Marchand 3 ch XM9, but I am changing that out to 100 or 120 shortly. The first pair I built I ended up giving to my sister and brother in law, leaving me with 5. Front 3 each have the Lambda Stryke SB10 in a 2+ cu ft sealed box. My Arias (L&R anyway) bolt to the woofer cabinet with a sheet of rubber in between for some damping.

                          I went active so I could not deal with the complications to the crossover. I am also switching out to the lower XO point to get it out of vocal freq range.

                          Anyway, none of this is advice, I'll leave that to those who know more about building speakers (most everyone here). Just thought you'd want to know where I ended up.

                          BB

                          Comment

                          • nismoron
                            Junior Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 10

                            #14
                            Thanks for the reply. I was scared that no one was going to reply. I bought the drivers and passives for this project about 7 or 8 years ago, got lost in the research and never built them. Tehn I got married. there went that project!!!Finally, about three years ago I built the left and right MTM's. I'm not exstatic about the sound. They are awful bright in the upper mid, lower tweeter area. Vocals are a little harsh. So I never really used them. I thought it was the TD90K tweeters that everyone told me to dump. I then built the rears that are a Focal JM Labs W cone 6.5 and the 90K tweeter. They sound fine. So it is the crossover or the 5K4211's. Now I am divorced, so project back on... Dont get between a speaker nut and his drivers!!! I have four Focal 10's that I am going to put into a larger single cabinet with the Aria's. I dont have room for floorstanders in the rear.

                            So, anyone have a tip on the mid tuning? Leave ported at 58hz or make the mid cabinet sealed? If sealed, where to "tune"

                            Comment

                            • nismoron
                              Junior Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 10

                              #15
                              No opinions on where to "tune" my mids?

                              How do you decide what volume of air to put behind your mids?

                              Comment

                              • 1Michael
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 293

                                #16
                                Nismoron what you are trying to do is not tuning. You are trying to create a "Highpass". This cuts off the lows at a certain point, and this is done in the Xover, not the box..Use the volume specified by the software we have previously discussed.
                                Michael
                                Chesapeake Va.

                                Comment

                                • nismoron
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Dec 2009
                                  • 10

                                  #17
                                  I am not trying to crossover the mids by using the box. My question is more towards where to tune the mids. The "software" wants to treat the mids as woofers in a two way, and try to get as much bass extension out of them as possible. I do not need them to play down to the 58 hz that "software" wants to tune them to. I do not see any reason to put them in .75ft with a port if they are not going to be playing any bass frequencies. I know, a crossover rolls off gradually, you guys know what I mean. My point is that I have looked at hundreds of speakers over my lifetime and I have never seen a 3 (or more) way speaker with a ported mid. I would think that the mid would operate more efficiently in an enclosure more appropriate to the frequencies that it was going to reproduce. Should I just select "sealed" in WinISD and go with that?

                                  Comment

                                  • Face
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Mar 2007
                                    • 995

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by nismoron
                                    My point is that I have looked at hundreds of speakers over my lifetime and I have never seen a 3 (or more) way speaker with a ported mid.
                                    Polk LSi15's and 25's have a ported mid cavity that is separate from the woofer cavity.
                                    SEOS 12/AE TD10M Front Stage in Progress

                                    Comment

                                    • nismoron
                                      Junior Member
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 10

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Face
                                      Polk LSi15's and 25's have a ported mid cavity that is separate from the woofer cavity.
                                      Still, 2 examples out of 10's of thousands of speakers made.

                                      Comment

                                      • BobEllis
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Dec 2005
                                        • 1609

                                        #20
                                        Take a look at the modeled cone excursion sealed and ported with your proposed filter - If you are planning to cross lowish (under 100 Hz) you'll probably find that keeping the Arias ported will limit excursion, and therefore lower distortion. It may not matter much with larger drivers, but with 5" midwoofers you'll need all the help you can get.

                                        Hope this helps.

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