Official CEDIA 2009 info from Parasound

[Chris D]

Hot off the press news, straight from the company's mouth:

- Yes, Parasound has decided not to go to CEDIA. "Only reason" was that the public wants to know when the new HDMI processors/receiver will come out. They are described as a "99% finished working sample on hand", but there is "no firm answer" as to when they will ship.

- The new 7.1 models WILL include both DPLIIz and Dolby Volume

- Yes, we now have official confirmation that a Parasound Blu-Ray player is in works! It's called the "B3", and is solidly in development. With luck, it will come out around the same time as the C3.

- Expect more info on Parasound's website soon.

[Chris D]

As always, everyone's entitled to my own opinion, so here's my take:

- I'm bummed that Parasound won't be at CEDIA. For me, it's personal as well as professional, as I always enjoy seeing them there and talking with the guys. Great bunch of people; one of my favorite things about CEDIA is meeting up with the good people in the industry and saying hi. I can understand if they don't have anything to announce, but would have liked to see them regardless.

- Of course, I'm also disappointed that the new HDMI models haven't shipped yet. We were hoping for them way back at the beginning of the year, and my guess is we won't see them until Q2 or Q3 next calendar year 2010. BUT, if there's a bit of silver lining to it, first, at least Parasound hasn't abandoned these projects. In today's economy, that would be ENTIRELY possible, as we see whole companies going under, not just new products affected. And, we know how Parasound agonizes over releasing a quality product, dragging out the release.

- I think that's GREAT news about DPLIIz and Dolby Volume, and much more important than those products themselves. It shows that Parasound is not just working out the bugs in the models for their eventual release, but also keeping them fresh and cutting edge as they evolve towards production. It would NOT be good news if Parasound kept a static system based on spring 2008's design, as industry technology keeps marching on, and the system would be 2+ years outdated by the time it actually got released.

- As for DPLIIz and Dolby Volume, I think both of these are useful features, but IMHO do not reach the useful or beneficial level of DPLIIx, Audyssey, etc. (which these new models should have as well, BTW) I'll be hitting up Craig Eggers and Dolby hard at CEDIA next week to really prove to me the full benefits of both IIz and DVolume. I've experienced both in the past, and thought that they were useful and did make a noticeable improvement in the sound and experience, but to me they were NOT make-or-break features, nor ones that I'd pay $1,000 more in a system just to get them. Now, Dolby Volume has not become widespread mainstream, (and I guess DPLIIz yet, either, for that matter) and so far it's generally only been the higher-end processors that have shown up with that feature. So I think it's cool that we get those, too.

- Note that the specs listed for the new HDMI 7.1 models on Parasound's website do continue to receive small tweaks. Dolby Volume is actually listed in there now, as well as THX Ultra2, which wasn't there originally: http://parasound.com/new.php

- Oh, baby... I'm just dreaming of what my equipment rack could look like with a Halo T3 tuner, B3 blu-ray player, D3 universal player, (which I'd probably keep as a secondary player, even if all functions are duplicated by the B3) C3 processor, A21 amp, and A51 amp. (not to mention my other gear) That would freaking rock. If I kept my C1 in there also, to power another room, that would look even better. For those lucky schmucks with even more than me, like JC1 amps, that would be ungodly.

- We'll discuss the B3 separately, but that would be cool if it's a universal player as well. Stand by for more info.

[Chris D]

What, no comments or reaction yet?

Even more info, fresh from the source:

- Looks like we might not get Audyssey after all. Problems were just found getting Audyssey to work with the DSP's. If this does indeed turn out this way, I'll be majorly disappointed. Audyssey is MUCH more useful to me and my needs than DPLIIz (vs DPLIIx) or Dolby Volume.

- The iPod port has indeed been removed from the processors. Not a huge loss in my book, I'd probably use my Universal Remote PSX dock anyway, which has MEGA functionality, including video output with metadata and OSD.

- Okay, the B3 (upcoming Blu-Ray player) WILL play SACD's, but NOT DVD-A. I find this interesting. So, it looks like I'll be keeping my D3 after all, for my DVD-A collection! A-OK by me, even though I'd like the B3 to be a truly universal player.

- Other B3 news, it will be a networked player, (standard necessity nowadays for BD-Live and such) and is reported to have great video quality so far.

[Peter Nielsen]

Let's just hope the B3 will have movable subtitles for us with a 2.35 screen...

[Le Caribou]

personally, for several months that I await the new HD processor Parasound, and release date always rejected. I'm glad they're trying to get us out a perfect product, but without being processor, so I chose to buy a used one pending.
So I will see next year for my next purchase from them...

[audioqueso]

Is there an estimate MSRP for the B3 or any of the new products?

[Chris D]

Just the original rough price "range" for the HDMI receiver/processors. Too early on to have one for the B3.

[teachsac]

Unfortunately, I don't know how much longer I'll be willing to wait. Pusing a year now. It is now pushed to early 2010. I know Parasound puts out a great product. No Audyssey, but it will come with some sort of room correction.

S~

[cameronl]

hi, I use an htpc as my source (LynxTwo-B) which currently works great with 5.1 analogue bypass.

With all the htpc issues with bitstreaming it will probably be resolved about the same time the C3 is released.

I'm happy to wait....though I defiently want some form of room correction when the C3 arrives. :-)

While the C3 will be great; I doubt many people will be able to tell the audible difference betwen a good analogue source (C2) and bitstreaming (C3).

CaM

[Chris D]

Just finished up CEDIA today. Have some fresh info about the C3 and industry that I will post when I can. I'm on a layover travelling to Canada for another conference this week. Busy, busy...

[Chris D]

Okay, here's what I can think of:

- Yes, Parasound did NOT show at CEDIA 2009. Talking with various folks around the show, both attendees and exhibitors, several people were also bummed the guys weren't there, like AVAD, and Dolby.

- Parasound certainly wasn't the only one that opted out, though. Many others, including some big boys like Denon didn't show either. The overall show had about a 10-15% drop in attendance, so it was still good and not a bust, but just a bit smaller this year. Matter of fact, of all 5-6 manufacturers that are putting Dolby Volume into a model releasing soon, (Parasound one of them) only one manufacturer was there--Integra. They had the only display of DPLIIz, so I went over to them for the demo.

- On that note, the DPLIIz was decent. They had a tall room obviously very deliberately set up to maximize DPLIIz, and in a theater that was only maybe 15' deep, the ceiling sloped up so that the front effect speakers were set at 12' high. The demo was "Ratatouille", the scene where the rat clan break out of the old lady's house and go through the sewer waterfalls. The guy running the demo flipped back and forth a couple times between DPL IIx and IIz, so that the only change was the addition of the front height speakers. It did, indeed, add a vertical dimension to the front wall sound stage. As Dolby and the Integra rep pointed out, the processing is not going to pull out ALL sounds from the other channels, for inclusion in the heights. Matter of fact, Craig Eggers (Dolby guru) even pointed out that something like "Top Gun", with an aircraft flying directly overhead, would not even necessarily be extracted for inclusion in the height speakers with processing. The processing looks for ambient, "environmental" sounds to put there, to add to the background sound stage and make it bigger. So it does work, but more subtly than your other speaker processing.

- The Integra demo also showed Audyssey DSX, using "Chris Botti: Live in Boston" on Blu-Ray. Side note here--if you don't have this BD already, you NEED to get it. We've been talking about this in other parts of HTGuide here, (you do visit other parts of the Guide, right?) and it's very popular. I'm blown away by the sound quality of this disc, and it brings me to tears. PQ is also great, which isn't too common with concert discs. You owe it to yourself to pick up this disc for fine music in Dolby TruHD. Anyway... the Integra demo flipped from raw Dolby TruHD with NO processing added at all, to Audyssey DSX. It extracts it to 9.1 also, making a nice, wide soundfield that was very enveloping. So I DO really hope we get Audyssey in the end, in the new processors. Dolby DPLIIx/IIz will do similar things, but I do want the Audyssey as well.

- Several companies were using Parasound for their booth demos, including one that was using the Halo P7 as a stereo pre-amp. Thought that was intriguing. Interesting enough, THX, in their big off-site bash party and demo, had three MASSIVE pro audio loudspeakers, that are the only pros to get THX certified, that were run by three A21's run in mono mode. The sound was great!

- It looks like the B3 Blu-Ray player will have a nice place in the market, from what I saw of other quality BD players at the show. I'll start a separate thread about the B3, so we can talk about it there.

- HDMI 1.4 is actually about to be finalized, likely in the next month. I'll see if I can find time to write about it in another thread, but the bottom line is: it adds some great features for future A/V capabilities, but it's NOT something you have to ditch your existing equipment for. Since the C3 and such haven't come out yet, though, I do think they need to get the 1.4 cert before coming out.

[REOFan]

Live in Boston - Thumbs Up

I have the "Chris Botti - Live in Boston" CD, and I think it's terrific. Maybe one of my favorites--in terms of performance and sound--for 2009. I can't imagine what the BD must be like. I mostly buy rock, but I noticed it had one of my wife's favorite songs on it, so I picked it up. Homerun! (I use JC 1s with a JC 2.)

[Chris D]

I should add this to the CEDIA info: Walking around CEDIA, and observing the industry, it's very clear that the future includes networking all major A/V devices. This is for multiple purposes, including software updates, internet access for obtaining metadata, and, I believe most importantly, two-way feedback between devices. This capability exists today with ethernet ports, and will continue after this month with the addition of the ethernet channel in the HDMI 1.4 spec and beyond.

What does this mean for Parasound? Well, as discussed in the B3 Blu-Ray player thread, this will be important for that player, in addition to the player's need to access the internet for BD-Live and such.

But I think this is also very important for the upcoming new HDMI processors/receiver, especially, again, with two-way control. 2-way control adds a whole 'nother level of control and stability for systems. Unless your equipment is right in front of you when you change any parameter on it or issue a command, the only way you know that the command was received correctly, and put the device into a particular state, is if you can hear/see the results and think it's correct. But it's more than that.

If you turn up the volume on your processor, 2-way control can tell you, right on the remote control in your hand, that the volume not only increased, but how MUCH it increased, and exactly what volume it increased to. (i.e. -25db) Issue a macro, and you'll know precisely that your processor changed to input 2, is receiving Dolby TruHD 7.1 from the Blu-Ray player, and engaged DPL IIx Movie. No more guessing whether your processor REALLY engaged DPL IIx Movie or not. If one device (i.e. system controller) issued the macro, it will receive the 2-way feedback as well, confirming that the commands it issued were received and properly followed.

System 2-way control already exists over RS-232, but goes to a whole new level with IP control over ethernet, getting that information to remote controls and such. So, again, what this mean for the upcoming HDMI processors/receiver from Parasound? Well, because of the production delay, the industry is now at the point where IP control and ethernet connectivity is almost the standard, and the way of the future. So, the new processors and receivers:

- Should have ethernet connectivity, either via ethernet port, and/or HDMI 1.4 ethernet channel.

- Parasound is already a "Complete Control Partner" with Universal Remote Control for remotes. But Parasound needs to have 2-way modules, meaning that URC's remotes can not only communicate and control Parasound units, but select Parasound products would also output feedback data BACK to the remote control. Parasound, please work with URC to develop these 2-way modules!!! This is not only something I personally really want, but adding this feature would give just one more incentive for URC users to use Parasound products, to take full use of their equipment. And since URC has the largest stakehold of the remote control market, you're talking about quite a few owners out there.

[JBM]

2-way control is currently possible with a majority of Parasound's products that have RS-232 control. Parasound really needs to get on the partner bandwagon and get the big automation systems to have drivers in their systems to encourage their use though.

Being that I program automation systems, IP control/feedback is the way to go. 232 was great, but so were Laser Discs and they are SO 1997...


I'd deff consider buying a B3 (please in black!) at launch! It sounds great so far, but I'd like to throw in my two cents.

IP connectivity - needs to support gigabit networking, future proof this bad boy! Also control with feedback please! It'd be really cool if you hosted a small webserver that offered transport control and menu navigation and showed cover art (it's on the internet!) so you could access it from a mobile phone (iPhone, BB, Android's, Pre, whatever comes out next) OR a laptopt/tablet/PC. Of the three, the last is the only non-needed item

HDMI 1.4xyz - Get in tight with those crazy folks over at the HDMI consortium and find out how long 1.4 is supposed to last and try to prepare to keep this alive and useable for that long. 1080p upscaling for DVDs would be great as long as some awesome video processing is included. An option to allow for pass through would be nice as well. I have a D200 and love the multitude of video outputs on it, if possible I'd like to be able to use the latest and greatest HDMI simultaneously as a 1080i/720p/SD component output, composite, and s-video.

Audio - 10.2 discrete outputs minimum, if these could outperform HDMI decoders that would great! However, I would like to see an expansion card to add more discrete outputs as the HDMI spec is ever expanding...Dolby and Audyssey are both adding channels in new directions.

Playback - If there is an audio/video disc format that was commercially available in the last 7 or so years, it should probably play it back.


Oh, and can I get a hot latte with all of that?

[Chris D]

Hey, JBM, welcome to the Guide and Club Parasound! :banana:

Agreed, that RS-232 two-way control in the past was a start, but the future is definitely two-way IP control with feedback.

[TommyV]

Trade shows in every industry are going down. Companies are taking a look at whether the thousands they shell out just to attend on top of how elaborate their booth is, transporting/setup/breakdown all the equipment and putting employees up in decent accommodations is just not showing the pay off it used to. Companies are trying to save money and skipping a trade show is one good way to do that.

I definitely have experience here with the company I used to work for. I would actually help setup/break down and work the booth during the show. It was nice to get out of town to FL and other places but the boss stopped attending the last year I worked there. It was just too costly.

[Chris D]

Totally understand. (trade shows and travel can be fun, and I see in my own primary job what happens to morale when you eliminate all the "good deals", so I hope electronics companies in general are keeping their employees happy!)

[magsterone]

A question on your set-up

- Oh, baby... I'm just dreaming of what my equipment rack could look like with a Halo T3 tuner, B3 blu-ray player, D3 universal player, (which I'd probably keep as a secondary player, even if all functions are duplicated by the B3) C3 processor, A21 amp, and A51 amp. (not to mention my other gear) That would freaking rock. If I kept my C1 in there also, to power another room, that would look even better. For those lucky schmucks with even more than me, like JC1 amps, that would be ungodly.

How would you connect the 2 amps to the C3? Especially for HT listening?

Joe in Mobile

[Chris D]

How would you connect the 2 amps to the C3? Especially for HT listening?

Joe in Mobile

My A21 and A51? Standard, the way I've got it connected to my C1 now--A21 powering the front mains, A51 to the center, side surrounds, and rear surrounds. I am almost definitely going to use balanced XLR connections to the amps this time, though, instead of unbalanced RCA.

Now, if the new receiver/processors really have DPLIIz, then I guess we're going to have two more pre-outs for the front height speakers, to make 9.1. I'm going to doubt they'll be available with XLR, so they'll probably be just unbalanced RCA. Given the relative unimportance of these channels, that's fine, and might not warrant anything more than a new A23 to power those speakers.

(I helped you out by editing your quote format, BTW)

[magsterone]

I was wondering on which connections for the a21 and a51, by this I mean, are you running the connections out from the two channel side for the a21 and then the other 3 ch thru the five channel side? Seems obviuos when I write it, but I have never seen it done and was wondering.

Joe in Mobile

[Chris D]

Joe-

Here's the latest pic from Parasound of the upcoming C3. This will most likely change, if they're adding DPLIIz, since there's two more channel outputs, though:



So there aren't two different sections for the main outputs--not broken up by a "two-channel side" and a "5-channel side", that is. There are eight main outputs in this picture, for seven speakers and a subwoofer. The balanced outputs are across the top row on the right side. The unbalanced outputs are in the bottom left corner. You can connect as few or as many speakers as you like for your own configuration, but the C3 (and just about any other receiver or pre/pro out there) doesn't use different componentry for 2-channel stereo and outputs, vs. 5-channel or 7-channel audio and outputs. There may be a difference in internal processing, but not the equipment connections.

So, if you have 5 speakers, you connect them to the front main left and rights, center, and side surround outputs. if you're listening to a 2-channel CD or LP, also output as 2-channel audio, the processor will output the sound to just the front left and right mains, and nothing will come out the other speakers. Same connection, but only using the 2-channel main speakers.

If you're listening to a 5-channel audio source, like a movie with 5.1 Dolby digital, the processor will output the sound from all 5 speakers. (and subwoofer) Again, same connections, and now the processor is using all 5 speakers.

[magsterone]

I guess my next question on your separate amps is why did you not get parasound 3 ch amp? Or are you running a 7.1 system?

Joe in Mobile

[Peter Nielsen]

I guess my next question on your separate amps is why did you not get parasound 3 ch amp?

There is no 3 ch amp in the HALO series:

JC1=1ch
A21,A23=2ch
A51,A52=5ch

[magsterone]

I agree there that in the halo series there is no 3 ch amp. I thought he might of had a parasound hca series amp. They do come in 3ch.

Joe in Mobile

[Mig17]

Anyone here knows what the price of Halo C3 ?

[Chris D]

Last estimate was "Under $3,500".

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=31150

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=31456