Goodbye to Parasound

[misterdoggy]

Although my C1 has been problem free I am switching to a Lexicon MC12B.

The sound on the C1 was good (better with and external DAC for stereo) and the ease of xlr connectors (missing from the new models I noticed), but I had too many problems with the interface.

You never are sure what mode you are in and the LED is so small its unreadable so its a viscious circle. Yes the memory keeps the last setting but are you sure. Can you read it from 15 feet away, Me thinks not.

I can't tell you how many times I've come into the family room and they're watching a DVD in 2.0 rather than 5.1. Or watching Satellite TV in mono or something instead of dplii.

This could have all been remedied with little leds under each of the modes that you could just see that DTS was lit and get to know all the LED's. But their not there.

It is my only complaint though so many of you won't find that bothersome and life goes on. For me its been impossible to "count" on something being in the right mode with so many variables (wife, family, electrical outages that put everything in a different place)

So Alas, Farewell Parasound !! ;x(

[Chris D]

Ah, misterdoggy, sorry to hear that! I hope you're happy with the new stuff though, that Lexicon is a nice unit.

Feel free to still hang around here in the Club--you're welcome back anytime.

I find it interesting that you were switching modes frequently with the C1. Personally, my taste is just to always leave the unit in DPL IIx for every input, movie for video sources, and music for audio. I always get a great 7.1 channel output, regardless of the source type.

[Peter Nielsen]

Why the Lexicon? AFAIK, it isn't future proof (no digital outputs). I would have gone straight to a Theta Casablanca III, Meridian G68, or Meridian 861 if I were you...

After the response to the e-mail I sent to Richard Schram, I'm staying with Parasound for now. Richard *vaguely* insinuated that current C1/C2 owners may be able to purchase an upgrade to the new Titan platform with 192 bit DACs, digital outputs, and a lot of other goodies. He told me to mail back in March for further info...

Peter

[Chris D]

Sweet...

[CP-Mike]

Richard *vaguely* insinuated that current C1/C2 owners may be able to purchase an upgrade to the new Titan platform with 192 bit DACs, digital outputs, and a lot of other goodies.

Peter, that would be awesome! Please keep us informed if you hear anything back in March.

[Adz]

Why the Lexicon? AFAIK, it isn't future proof (no digital outputs). I would have gone straight to a Theta Casablanca III, Meridian G68, or Meridian 861 if I were you...
Peter

Hey Peter,

Do you mean that the Lexicon won't be providing an upgrade path in its MC12 for HDMI audio/video with respect to Next Gen Hi-Def formats? I hadn't heard that.

[misterdoggy]

Lexicon is actually very future proof. Its gone from Versions 2 up to V5Eq. First adding 2 microphones for speaker calibrations, and then the newest EQ which takes it a` step further in equalizer with 4 micros.

I mean Halo's fixit to hdmi with an external something is not really future proof now is it. We can always add external devices to solve future improvements.

Lexicon provides extra slots for future upgrades.

We are really not comparing as the French say "apples for apples" anyhow.

The Halo series is a great unit for the money. The support was terrific, they were always helpful and courteous, and the C1 never faultered and provided excellent sound quality in both Stereo and Home Cinema.

The Lexicon is considerably more $$ and you should get more results for the buck.

My main reason for changing as I said, was the illegible TFT screen. Even when it flashes to show you what mode you are in, IF YOU CAN"T READ IT, then you can't be sure. If its stationed with your Screen. And you have a 50 inch Plasma that requires at the very leat 5 meters, then you have to take in to consideration something that is more legible.

I have to get up fromthe couch and verify that the decoding taking place is 3/2.1 Yes it automatically choses this as the first preference, but many DVD's offer DTS, 5.1 and 2.0 on the same DVD and you have to manually chose from the disc and then double check the Processor to see if it took.

[Peter Nielsen]

Hey Peter,

Do you mean that the Lexicon won't be providing an upgrade path in its MC12 for HDMI audio/video with respect to Next Gen Hi-Def formats? I hadn't heard that.

No, I'm talking about processed digital ouputs for the fronts/surrounds/rears/center/sub for those of us that wants to hook up a digital power amplifier, external D/A converter, or processor. (For instance, I need it for the DEQX). Currently, I will end up with an additional D/A + A/D conversion for my fronts because I have to run analog between the C2 and DEQX...

Peter

[Peter Nielsen]

I mean Halo's fixit to hdmi with an external something is not really future proof now is it.

No, that's only a poor solution to those that need the *switching* part of HDMI.

For all I understand, the Titan v7 platform has builtin HDMI support. The interesting question is of course how a C1/C2 upgrade would physically integrate the HDMI connectors. Maybe through the expansion port?

If it really is an upgrade... Richard only mentioned the "possibility of a new DSP engine for the C2". It might of course be that it will be a new model and not an upgrade...

My main reason for changing as I said, was the illegible TFT screen.

Yes... I don't know why people buy the C1 in the first place when you can get a C2 plus a very nice big TFT for the same price or less...

I agree that Lexicon is nice. However, the lack of digital outputs rules it out for me...

Peter

[misterdoggy]

Yes... I don't know why people buy the C1 in the first place when you can get a C2 plus a very nice big TFT for the same price or less...

I agree that Lexicon is nice. However, the lack of digital outputs rules it out for me...
Peter

Peter,

Which digital outputs are you talking about ? To do what with ? External DAC or.......

[misterdoggy]

Yes... I don't know why people buy the C1 in the first place when you can get a C2 plus a very nice big TFT for the same price or less...

I agree that Lexicon is nice. However, the lack of digital outputs rules it out for me...
Peter

Peter,

Which digital outputs are you talking about ? To do what with ? External DAC or.......

whoops you answered before I finished. Hmmm Digital Amplifier

since I'm running Krells that doesn't concern me too much right now.

I will stick to my road. :T

[Peter Nielsen]

Peter,

Which digital outputs are you talking about ? To do what with ? External DAC or.......

whoops you answered before I finished. Hmmm Digital Amplifier

since I'm running Krells that doesn't concern me too much right now.

I will stick to my road. :T

Remember that I'm also running analog amps (JC 1s). You will need the digital ouputs if you want to reap the benefits of active biamping or triamping with a digital crossover like the DEQX.

Peter

[misterdoggy]

Peter,

I read that article and its very interesting. It said

".....Only the most heroic amplifiers can drive the ten-octave range of a passive speaker almost flawlessly, so these tend to be extraordinarily expensive. DEQX-HD active allows far simpler amplifiers to be chosen for what they do best....."

Which reading between the lines means you can get that "Ten Octave range" with an expensive Amplifier. I think I will enjoy my Krell FPB400CX for a while before thinking about switching to digital for the moment.

[Peter Nielsen]

Which reading between the lines means you can get that "Ten Octave range" with an expensive Amplifier. I think I will enjoy my Krell FPB400CX for a while before thinking about switching to digital for the moment.

I think you missed the point. The main benefit of using an active crossover is that you get rid of the passive crossover in the speaker. In most, if not all, speakers the passive crossover is a "problematic" part and a part where many compromises are made. By removing the passive crossover completely, you can get much better performance out of the speakers.

BTW, the DEQX sales material recommends using less expensive amplifiers because they want you to spend money on their DEQX instead of spending the money on expensive amps. While it is true that bi-amping puts less strain on the amp, I don't fully agree with the DEQX sales material that in some way tries to diminish the value of a good amp...

See this article for a good objective description of bi-amping


Peter

[misterdoggy]

thanks for the article. Very informing.

[Chetk]

Why didn't you just get a ledgible size LCD screen and run the composite video out from the C1? It will display the OSD.

I've been thinking of doing this, but I don't sit as far away as you do and I had LASIK. 8O

The other option would have been to program your remote to run a sequence of commands that change everything into whatever mode it should be in when switching to the respective devise. I "wife-proofed" my remote.

[misterdoggy]

I "wife-proofed" my remote.

how'd you do that ?

[Chetk]

I made everything happen that needs to happen by the push of one or two buttons. Never more than that.

[misterdoggy]

I made everything happen that needs to happen by the push of one or two buttons. Never more than that.

Chetk,

I did the same with a Universal Remote mx950 on the New Lexicon MC5.

Now that the Lexicon has been playing for 2 days I can say with confidence it is a fantastic machine. Very clear. Much more distinct separation.

Legible screen and easily programmed. It took about 1/2 an hour and I was up and running. Proprietary L7 sound is by some considered better than DD. I will let time tell.

Especially noticeable in the front left and right. Star Wars you really get the sense of the whole front plain movement right to left that I never felt watching it with the C1.

Of course for Double the price, you expect more, and I got it.

Happy Camper :T

[Chris D]

Double the price of the C1? Wow, didn't know it was that much.

Most importantly, glad you're happy! :T

[misterdoggy]

Yeah Version 5 EQ with all the bells and whistles.

Really you can find a good deal on a new C1 for $4000 to $4500, and you can find a good deal on a new MC12 for $8000 to $9000 so realistically double. Retail the figures go up on both evenly, but no one really pays retail do they ?

[CP-Mike]

Is the only difference between the MC8 and MC12 the number of inputs/outputs?

[misterdoggy]

It was the same question I asked the lexicon tech and he said no that the mc12 had much more than the mc8. Better everything.

not like the difference between a c1 and c2 which is probably only the screen.

[goldear]

"Proprietary L7 sound is by some considered better than DD."
---------------
The only problem I had with Logic-7 is that it doesn't always react well with some recordings...causing occasional pumping. I always prefered L7 for music, while DPLIIx was more stable on movies. Having also moved from a Halo to an MC12 (and now to an Aragon Soundstage), I didn't find the basic sound quality to be an overwhelming upgrade for me. While the MC12 is incredibly flexible and shined with HT material, I actually prefered the dacs in the Halo to that of the Lexicon.

On the other hand, the MC12 also had the added benefit of having an analog bypass on the standard stereo inputs, as well as bypass and BM on the 5.1 direct throughput (which the MC-8 doesn't). The one area that worried me on the MC12, however, was that unlike the Halo, it only had a 5.1 input vs. the 7.1, which could become an issue with the new high-rez formats that will be offering discrete 7.1 channels (and I heard this may as far as the MC12 will go, meaning no HDMI upgrade).

While I loved the MC12, I just couldn't justify the cost to performance ratio...and the future costs for upgrades. Ironically, after dumping the Halo and Lex, I went back to a receiver (HK AVR635) hoping to wait out the HD/HDMI uncertainty. Sadly, the wait didn't last long as I picked up a Cary Cinema 6 (which still left me wanting) and I ended up with an upgraded Aragon 7.1/HD Soundstage, which I surprisingly found to be one of the best combo audio/HT pieces I've had in my system. Man, I hate this hobby

[Chris D]

Holy crap, Chris. Had no idea you were going through that drama.

[goldear]

Hey Chris,

That's why I think that anyone who still has the Halo and is still happy with its performance should just hang onto it...at least until things settle down. I only picked up the Lex because it was at a price I couldn't pass up (and I made a killing on the resale). If I had to pay substantially more than I did, I would've kept the Halo since, IMHO, I didn't think the P-to-P differential was justified...but I also owned the C2 and not the C1, making that differential much larger.

I enjoyed the Halo so much, that before going to the HK and the following components, I seriously thought about repurchasing one. In the interim, I just happened to come across a couple used SSPs that I hadn't owned and also heard good things about, so I decided to try them out; I could always resell with little to no loss. It's been a while since I owned the Halo, but if my recollection is correct, it is still one of the better sounding SSPs I've heard.

Edit: I should also note that I only had the v2 MC12, so I didn't have the room EQ system. Ironically, after getting the 635 with the auto EQ I did notice how a properly EQ'd system could make a difference in sound. While it was no Lex-v4, the EZEQ in the 635 did work very well, so I can only imagine how the big-boy would work. But again, that would've also meant a bigger investment which had to be measured against the overall costs. As always, YM (and money) MV

[misterdoggy]

Chris B,

I felt the same as you did. The difference in HT between the Halo and the MC12 was substantial, but the difference between how HIFI stereo sounded was comparable and maybe even leaning towards the Halo.

However, I am using a Goldmund digin DAC and neither used the Halo or MC12 for Conversion, using them in "bypass" mode.

The sound coming out of the Goldmund blew either the halo or the Lex away no contest.

So I have the best of 2 worlds. The Great HT from the MC12 and Great Stereo in bypass using the Goldmund.

By the way If you ever get a chance to listen to a pretty inexpensive top of the line DAC its the goldmund.

I am very happy running THX for ALL DVD's, 80hz crossover all around and it has produced the best sound in that realm. L7 is my favorite for Sat TV and nothing but the Ayre and Goldmund direct to the Krell FPB400CX for Stereo.

[goldear]

Hey Misterdoggy,

It sounds like you do have the best of both worlds You hear it alot, but if you really want the best of both worlds, sometimes a separate preamp or external dac/HT system is the way to go. This was actually my thinking when I temporarily went to the HK635 for HT (which was loaded with features and wasn't bad for HT) while returning to my trusty Citation 7.0, which I always loved for music and analog sources. Sadly, it was a more complicated system because there was no HT bypass and the 635's multichannel inputs just weren't as clean as I hoped.

While the Cinema 6 was also a very good music machine, it was missing alot of basic features and just didn't overwhelm me on HT material...especially since it had alot of attentuation when engaging any post-processing. Surprisingly, I took a crack at the old (but upgraded) Soundstage and I'm really impressed with its overall performance on everything.

This was always highly regarded as a 2-channel analog preamp (built around Aragon's $2K Aurum preamp)...and with the new digital board, the dac section was significantly upgraded. In fact, it uses a similar digital platform to the EAD Theatermaster 8800pro and the Simaudio Stargate, which both also had impressive dac sections. While I wouldn't suggest others dumping the Halo at this particular time, if someone gets the itch, the 7.1 Soundstage is worthy candidate for comparison...especially at its used prices.

While it doesn't have PLIIx or HDMI, it has some unique features that even some more modern-day components don't have...including separate x-overs and BM for 2-channel vs. multi, even on the same input. It also does speaker delay in inches; volume control in .5db; and has a volume memory-recall for each input source. Beware however, because it doesn't have an OSD. While I thought this would be a deal-breaker for me (since my equipment is in a separate room), its simplicity put those concerns to rest. This should be my last move until things shake out.

[misterdoggy]

Chris B,

Its taken a lot of experimentation with the MC12 to find the best sound. The first couple of days, I was not that impressed (or only with the front soundstage) but as I tweaked the system it really started to show its capabilities.

Now after a couple of weeks it really is running great and I haven't finished playing with different mode possiblities and lastly one other experiment which will be with lower crossover (60hz) and speaker settings. So its great here and might even get better.

About preamps: The best preamp I ever had was completely neutral and only had a volume control. I don't really want to "color" the sound with another in between something, so being a purist I want to go as direct as possible.

That solution is Ayre D1Xe transport > Goldmund DAC > MC12 Bypass > KrellFPB400CX > B&W802D's > my ears