802's and power requirements

[uncle_git]

How much power do the 802's really require to drive them hard ?

I'm seeing quotes about 500W for the 801's on various forums - but no real feedback on the 802's - I was thinking of driving them with an amp that put out 200W per channel - is this going to be enough or should I go looking for something stronger ?

All the power amp's for AV use I've seen that are multichannel don't put out more than 200W per channel.

Should I be looking for a seperate 2 channel amp do drive the fronts and a 3 or 5 channel repending on 5.1 or 7.1 to drive the other speakers ?

Hopefully this is within forum rules as I didn't mention amp brands

Great library of information here BTW - thanks to the mods and admins for a great, informative site.

Hopefully I didn't disgrace myself too badly in my first post :T

[jlee]

The Classe CAM-350's are a great match with the 802's. 200W of good clean power is about the minimum for the 802's, although 350 is nice .

The old Classe CAV-180 or CAV-500, although 5 channel, will drive the 802's with no problem.

Depending on the other speakers, I would get Monoblocks for your front and center and then stereo for the rears.

[sikoniko]

Parasound has a 2 channel amp that is 400w and priced around $2k. That might be a good option. Or you could look into Bryston.

I read in the manual for them that when it comes to power, you need to have a 2:1 ratio in relation to ohms. 300w @ 8ohm, 600w @ 4ohm, etc.

W/ that being said, the cinnenova grande 5 would power them.

I honestly couldn't say what the minimum amt of power you would need to power them would be. That is something you would probably have to go and listen to.

[uncle_git]

I guess my next [obvious] question is does the htm1 center channel guzzle power at such an impressive rate as well ?

Could I use a strong 2 channel amp to drive the 802's and a 5 channel for the center / surround - or am I better getting something like the Bryston 3x300 to drive the front 3 channels and skimp a bit on power for the surrounds (relatively speaking) ?

[jlee]

1. All the B&W speakers with the FST midrange guzzle power.
2. With regards to amps, you can do whatever you want . It depends on what your priorities are. For 2 channel, go for the best amps to drive the 802 and then 3 or 5 channel for the others. If you're into HT heavily, I personally like to have all 3 front amps the same (ideally all 5 really) but if you have to skimp relatively speaking, the rear is the area to do it.

[Fife]

1. All the B&W speakers with the FST midrange guzzle power.
2. With regards to amps, you can do whatever you want . It depends on what your priorities are. For 2 channel, go for the best amps to drive the 802 and then 3 or 5 channel for the others. If you're into HT heavily, I personally like to have all 3 front amps the same (ideally all 5 really) but if you have to skimp relatively speaking, the rear is the area to do it.

We agree on something! :T

[jlee]

>We agree on something!

Coolness.... :B

Cheers!

[caleb]

Power hungry

Hi All,

I have 802's for the fron and HTM1 for the centre.
I was driving these with a TAG 250x3R amp.
There alwways seemed to something lacking particularly when listening to CD's on stereo.
My friend has recently bought the Mark Levinson 432 (400 per channel) which I tried earlier this month and WOW!!

I blew me away!!

There is no doubt that the 802's thrive on power, so I tried a pair of Bryston 7BSST monoblocks and this was even better (600 per channel).

The amps must be stable as the 802's can get down to 2.4OHMS so the amp has be "double" into 4 and then "double" again into two ohms.

The moral of this story for me is get as powerful an amp as you can afford if you are to get the best out of your 802's.

Best Wishes from the Sunny CAPE.

Caleb

[Lewing]

Hello all, i do not own N802's but i once read a review that they used a pair of Jeff Rowland Monoblocks to power the 802's and the reviewer claimed that the amps sounded really good in music. i am not sure if those amps suitable for HT use though.

[KMD]

I don't want to drop a bomb but, I power my 802s on a Rotel 1075(125x5). I'll step up to a big boys size amp in the future. I am not sure weather it will be tubes or solid state . But for now I got to let the dust settle in customs!(aka the wife)

[DrBoom]

I don't want to drop a bomb but, I power my 802s on a Rotel 1075(125x5).

It took me a while to find a smiley that expressed what I felt when I read this, but I think this one comes close. :jawdrop:

You brought that one on yourself :B
Seriously now, I had the RMB1075 powering my 804's for 3 months, then I upgraded to something a little more powerful and the difference was huge.
If you're happy with it, all the better, but I seriously think that there is a TON of performance left in those 802s you aren't even tapping now, I'm speaking out of experience.
Best musical and ultradetailed performance I've heard so far from an 802 is with an Accuphase pre and poweramp (C245 and P650), ofcourse that's a $20.000 amp combination.
And the strangest thing is, it's only 100W per channel at 8 ohm.
Then again, it does double down to 200 at 4, 400 at 2 and 650 at 1 ohm :B
For HT I think Parasound is great, powered by an HCA3500 these things blow you away (literally).
I can only imagine what it must be like with the JC1.

[Dan Schulze]

uncle_git,

Initially I powered my 802’s, HTM1 & 805’s with an Anthem MCA 50 (5x180). The 802’s seemed like they were always looking for more. I upgraded my single 5-ch amp to my current configuration (Bryston 7B SST’s for the 802’s, and a 6B SST for the other 3. This combo seems to work well, and I think the 802’s are happy now!!

My dealer uses a 6B SST and a 4B SST for their demo system (802’s, HTM1 and I don’t know the surrounds).

Dan

[KMD]

Dr. boom I wasn't tring to say that all you need is a Rotel 1075 to power a pr of 802s. Right now that's all my budget will allow me.My salesman also has been saying thier's alot more left in the speaker an I know that. My goal some day is to end up with ethier a pair of mono blocks (krell,vtl,mcintosh) or a bryston,but for now thats what powers my 802s.When I went to listen to the 802s it was being driven by solid state preamp an a 60w tube amp which I thought it sounded impressive.

[georgev]

which amp?

I will be getting my New(to me) n802's soon and am being given the option of pwering them with a Levinson 332(rated @200wpc inot 8ohms, and doubles into 4 as well as 2) or with a Proceed HPA 2.(Rated at 250wpc). I may not be able to audition them side by side. Any thoughts or experience with eother of these and the 802's?

[Aussie Geoff]

George,

I'd take the Mark Levisnon 332 every time (assuming it is still in good conditon). As you point out it is a dual monoblock design which has the very desirable characteristic of doubling in power from 8 to 4 to 2 ohms - resulting in 800W into 2 Ohms... It should make your new 802s very very happy!

PS - You will need a strong back - the 332 shipping weight is 150 lbs (68.2 kg)!

Geoff

[georgev]

Geoff

Even though the Proceed is also a double moaural design which also doubles into 4ohms?(Dunno about 2ohms though), and is more powerful?(@250W)Is damping factor really critical?
George.

[Aussie Geoff]

GeorgeV,

Proceed Amps are from the same manufacturer (Madrigal) and are the lower cost models using step down technology from the Mark Levinson range. E.g.

While Proceed amplifiers are certainly not inexpensive, they benefit from the research projects afforded Madrigal's more costly Mark Levinson line. This association directly benefits Proceed products, making them an outstanding value in the world of high end audio.

Hence me picking the well known Mark Levinson 332... You will not hear the extra 50W but with the B&W 802 you are very likely to benefit from the extra current control and its ability to drive down to 2 Ohms doubling in power...

However your call!

Geoff

[Dan Schulze]

Note: I have modified the quotes to eliminate amp brand names. Check the link in my signature to My Home Theater to see the amps I use. - Dan

How much power do the 802's really require to drive them hard ?

I'm seeing quotes about 500W for the 801's on various forums - but no real feedback on the 802's - I was thinking of driving them with an amp that put out 200W per channel - is this going to be enough or should I go looking for something stronger ?

All the power amp's for AV use I've seen that are multichannel don't put out more than 200W per channel.

Should I be looking for a seperate 2 channel amp do drive the fronts and a 3 or 5 channel repending on 5.1 or 7.1 to drive the other speakers ?

Hopefully this is within forum rules as I didn't mention amp brands

Great library of information here BTW - thanks to the mods and admins for a great, informative site.

Hopefully I didn't disgrace myself too badly in my first post :T

Dan - I'm planning to purchase a system this year that bascially is the same as your setup - the one question I had was about the mono's - do the 802's require the extra power of the mono's over just using a 3x300W to power the two fronts and center ?

At this point I'm going to hold off and audition the 802D's before making a final decision - this is going to be my last purchase of speakers for many, many years - so may as well get the best I can afford.

Although justififying it to the Mrs may be a challenge

uncle git,

To be honest, I have not tried the 802's with the 3X300W. I have only used two different amps with my 802's, the first was a 5 channel x 180W, and then the monoblocks (600W).

When using the 5X180W amp, the 802's seemed like they were wanting more. Once I had decided on my current brand, I just plain wanted something that I would have no regrets over. I didn't want to ask my self the question "What if I had bought the 600W monoblock's?" :roll:

I will give a try using the 3X300W for the 802’s, and report back.

Dan

That would be nice to know.

Dan - that would be awesome to hear an option.

Thanks very much for taking the time to try it out !

:T

Well I spent the better part of this evening cable swapping, listening, cable swapping, listening, more cable swapping, more listening …. and so on, and so on ….

What did I discover? Well there was something I expected, and something I did not.

Before I get into my findings, let me just say I am by no means a professional reviewer, and I don’t think my ears are attuned to the a lot of the subtle differences as are the professional reviewers, most audiophiles and a good friend of mine. Anyway – here goes.

My mission was to try to see if there was many, if any, differences in powering the 802’s with a couple of different amps. I tried two different amp models that I have (two 600W monoblocks, and a 3 channel x 300W).

I used several different CD’s by several different artists. I won’t list the specific tracks, I want to get back to how the 802’s sounded.

I knew the 802’s were fond of power, but now I am even more convinced. First I want to say I have had my 802’s for about a year now, and they seem to sound better now than even after a few months of breaking them in. Like a good wine – they seem to get better with time!!!

I set my speaker configuration in my processor for only having main speakers, set to full range signal (crossover off) and no sub-woofers. I did not recalibrate when switching amps, I wanted to hear the all the differences. When I had my 3X300W amp hooked up to the 802’s (using only two of the three channels) the sound was as expected, very good. Would I have been happy with this set-up, yes! However when I hooked up the 600W monoblocks, there were four differences I noticed.

1. With the monoblocks, the mid-range seemed fuller.
2. In addition to that, the monoblocks tamed the midrange a bit – by that I mean they took a bit of the edge off. I have read that the FST driver on the 802’s loves power!! Maybe this was I noticed. This was something I did not expect.
3. The bass also filled in a bit with more punch. I noticed what seemed like a bit more cone movement in the bass drivers while listening to one of Mike Oldfield tracks. I expected this.
4. The speakers played just slightly louder – 1dB at best! By the way, the typical volume of my listening was about 90dB's (according to my trusty Radio Shack SPL Meter).

Anyway, without getting too much more off the B&W speakers topic, that pretty much sums it up.

As I mentioned earlier, would I have been happy with 300W amps powering the 802’s – yes! Am I happier that I have 600W monoblocks – yes! The higher powered amps seem to take more control of the 802’s, sort of like an experienced horse rider (compared to an inexperienced rider) taking the reigns of a not quite broken horse. The 802’s, like the horse, behave better! :T

Dan

[Seeme]

Hi guys,

I'm new to the site but I thought, I would give my opinion in regards to this question as I have done a lot of testing.

I have been auditioning amps for quite some time now and I have listened to the following: "All in-home demo as well"

Proceed AMP5
Theta Dreadnaught
Bryston 7B ST, 6Bst, 14BST
Aragon Palladium
Krell TAS
McIntosh MC-402, MC-501
Classe CA-301, CA-3200 "Delta", CA-401
B&K Ref. 2220
Jeff Rowland 12T

I have been using the 804's and 802's and to be honest 200 watts is the min. I would use for the 802's but it's not the quantity but rather the quality of power that is used. The 802's sounds it's best when the AMP can double its 8 ohm wattage to 4 ohms "200 to 400" and the midrange likes less noise S/N Ratio: 137 dbr, THD + N: 0.002%.

I'm not a big Krell fan but the Krell TAS made the woofer of the 802 just come to life, but the mid and highs where ok. The best that I have tested for the 802's have been the McIntosh and the Classe. The new Delta series is awesome for the B&W's.

I went with the Classe for mine as I like the tube sound to help tame the highs for our beloved B&W Nat.

[Fife]

Seeme,
Thats wonderful you had a chance to demo all those amplifiers.

Could you maybe elaborate abit more on each of the pro's and con's of the other amplifiers you tested so others can make better informed purchases.

Thanks

[Seeme]

Sure thing Fife I will elaborate more as it relates to the 802 and 804 to try and stay within the confine of the forum.

Proceed AMP5 - I felt that this amp was just ok and did not have the slam or the impact the other amps on this list have been able to achieve. The soundstage was not as defined as the other ones. The 804 had to be crank load in order for me to tap my feet.

Theta Dreadnaught - This amp was good for the 804's but just did not have enough to push the 802's. The soundstage was wide extending beyond the middle of the two speakers and it had great depth.

Bryston 7B ST, 6Bst, 14BST - These amps are great but my only problem with them is that it tends to make the highs hurt my ears on bad recordings but the 14BST can make the 802's rock in the low end.

Aragon Palladium – Too much background noise for the money.

Krell TAS - I tell you what, it does not have the detail or the soundstage of the Theta or the Bryston but if you want to hear what good low end should sound like on the 802's give this one a try.

McIntosh MC-402, MC-501 - This one comes down to personal taste, of all the amp's I have tried this one gives you the best of both worlds in regards to the 802 and the 804's. I would recommend these in a heart beat.

Classe CA-301, CA-3200 "Delta", CA-401 - These amp are by far my favorite, I can see why B&W bought them. Try the new Delta 400 Mono on the 802's and you will not believe what you have been missing. It is so clean and dynamic, I could not believe my ears. My jaw dropped when I heard the 802's on this amp, my wife tried to hold onto her emotions as she did not want to let me know that she loved the way the 802's sounded on this amp because she didn’t want me to spend that much. :P I didn't buy them by the way, I have the CA-3200 because I wanted something for my HTM1 as well.

B&K Ref. 2220 - Good bang for the buck, it’s not as clean as the other amps but you can get it for $600.00 - 800.00 and your 804 or 802's will sound good enough if you do not want to spend that much cash.

Jeff Rowland 12T - This is a very good amp but I wanted to test an outrageous amp that cost a lot so I could ensure the return on investment value. I would go with a MC-501 or the Classe Mono before I went this high. If you have the money go for it, you can not go wrong.

I hope this has been a help to everyone.

[Dan Schulze]

Seeme,

I am envious that you had the opportunity to evaluate all of these in your home. Nice overview by the way - short and sweet!! :T

Dan

[Parsonsk]

this is very interesting. Can anyone tell me about the N804's???
I'm planning on driving them with the rotel RB-1080 @ 200W/ ch. Does anyone have any experience with this combo?
kevin

[Aussie Geoff]

Kevin,

I have heard the RB-1080 drving the Nautilus 804 speakers. Does a fine job with no obvious shortcomings... Could it be better - yes - we swapped to a RB-1090 at it was even better - in comparison.. But unless you heard it you wouldn't miss it...

I have also heard the 804s on McIntosh 601 monoblocks - now they really were impressive!... However value for money the 1080 does a great job - much better than can be expected for the price...

Now the 802s are a whole different story - they are current hungry beasts and you really need the RB-1090 or better to do them justice!!!

Geoff

[Stockinv]

I'm considering the new 802d or 803d speakers with the Aragon 3005 amp.
What are the thoughts about this combination?

[DanR]

I also have a Jeff Rowland Model 2 that is only rated at 75 watts per channel (although on the test certificate from JRDG is says they tested at 130 watts per channel 8 ohms & 210 watts at 4 ohms) and drives them better than anything I've ever heard. For that matter, I have heard the Bel Brown 1001 MkV which is only 50 watts drive them effortlessly. There is a lot behind the numbers of amplifiers. Purity of the wattage being key. Many amps produce sufficient current with low wattage ratings. It is all in the topology of the amp and the way the transformer and capacitors work together. Don't be misled by numbers alone. The purer and cleaner the watt, the more powerful the amplifier.