HT Room B&W 804's or 805's?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • gsiokis
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 4

    HT Room B&W 804's or 805's?

    All,
    Great site and my first post! I am currently building out my HT room (14x20x8), in the basement, and recently purchased a Rotel 1066 as my pre/pro. I am trying to decide if I should purchase (used on Audiogon) a pair of N804's for the fronts, HTM-1 for the center and SCM-1 for the side and rear surrounds with a REL Storm III Sub or pair of N805's, HTM-2, with same surrounds and sub as stated earlier.

    BTW, I will purchasing the Samsung 56" DLP RPTV (2nd Gen) as my viewing source and a Phillips 963SA DVD player

    As you might have noticed, I don't have an amp yet to drive the setup and would appreciate any recommendations. This is what I am currently looking at (no specific order):

    1. B&K Reference Series 200.5 or 7250
    2. Parasound Halo A 52
    3. Anthem MCA 50
    4. Aragon 2005

    Thanks!

    Gus
  • Scarp
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2003
    • 632

    #2
    Hi,

    I only know the Parasound amp and I know its a good match for B&W speakers.

    If you main goal is HT, then go for 805 fronts and rears, with HTM2 as a center and a good subwoofer. This will give perfect integration and when setup well, it will be a joy to listen too.

    804 fronts is okay, but will give a bit less integration into the whole system.

    I assume you want to use the SCM1's, since you are limited in space? If you can, I do recommend getting 805's instead.

    Also get the 805's with their original B&W stands, these add to the overall sound, since they increase the weight of the overall speaker (they are mounted fixed onto the stands).

    Comment

    • sikoniko
      Super Senior Member
      • Aug 2003
      • 2299

      #3
      I tend to disagree with this. While the 805's and htm2 are a great combination, to me they sounded thin. I like the sound of a full speaker. The 804's and htm1 combo gave me that.
      I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

      Comment

      • Scarp
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2003
        • 632

        #4
        A good HT has everything equal for all channels, i.e., equal speakers, equal distances, equal cabling, equal amps, etc. This will give you the best integration possible.

        An 804 fronts, HTM1 center and 805's surrounds system has a less good integration. When the 805's are supported by a good subwoofer, they aren't really thin. 804's do lack bass themselves and on HT use, need a subwoofer to support them anyway.

        For music use, I do prefer fuller front speakers, but if you dedicate to a HT ... go with equals

        Comment

        • gsiokis
          Junior Member
          • Mar 2004
          • 4

          #5
          I am probably looking at a 75% HT and with the remaining 25% 2-channel music.

          Also, the rear and side surrounds would be the SCM1 unless anyone recommends something different.

          Gus

          Comment

          • sikoniko
            Super Senior Member
            • Aug 2003
            • 2299

            #6
            If you do get the scm1's, id like to hear what you think about them. I would like to consider them for surrounds, but have not been able to find any reviews on them.
            I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

            Comment

            • Scarp
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2003
              • 632

              #7
              I only know of one SCM1 review: see http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=941

              They should be fairly similar to 805's, but since they have a different cabinet, it won't be the same.

              Comment

              • aphexist
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2004
                • 158

                #8
                Originally posted by Scarp
                A good HT has everything equal for all channels, i.e., equal speakers, equal distances, equal cabling, equal amps, etc. This will give you the best integration possible.
                I disagree.

                Perhaps this is antiquated thinking, but, in the context of HT, I believe that surround speakers are at their best when they are supplementing spatial effects (fly overs, atmospheric sounds) and resonance in the 5.1/6.1 mixes.

                I also believe that surround channels receive an EQUAL amount of attention from the engineers during mixing, as these effects draw you in to the surroundings of the movie, but they do NOT recieve an equal share (percentage) of the mixed audio. You are going to have speakers that are better at reproducing surround effects, or dialog, or frontal impacts. For example, sending a low-freq signal to a surround channel is uncommon, but sending it to a L/R channel is quite common.

                In the context of multi-channel/DSP music listening, I would generally agree with you. However, in both cases, you also have to consider this. Is the integration of a smaller speaker with a subwoofer going to be better than the intergration of a full-range with a sub?

                I think the ladder in increasing levels of system integration would be this:

                1. All monitors (805 + HTM2) with a subwoofer
                2. Full-Range (804) for L/R, HTM1 Center, SCM1 or 805 surrounds
                3. All 804s with HTM1 Center

                Obviously, these are in order of increasing cost as well, but I think #2 is most reasonable for most people, especially if they are integrating a family/living room with a HT.

                Comment

                • Nicholas Renter
                  Member
                  • Jun 2002
                  • 57

                  #9
                  Given your direction with speakers, I'd go with

                  (4) Nautilus 805s (w/ appropriate stands)
                  (1) Nautilus HTM-2
                  (2) REL Strata IIIs

                  But, hey...that's just me.

                  Comment

                  • Scarp
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 632

                    #10
                    @aphexist:

                    Dolby/DTS/SACD/DVD-Audio are all capable of producing equal amounts of sound out of all 5 (or 6 or 7). Thechnically there is no problem in this, however it is not yet used fully for movies. For surround music, it is used!!! If you do want to use multichannel SA-CD or DVD-Audio, you are required to have all the same speakers.

                    You are assuming that one speaker is more important than the other, this is completly wrong. All speakers contribute to the same experience. Over the years, the sound engineers have gotten more experienced with using surround and using the surrounds more and better.

                    What they are trying to achieve is a 360 degree sound field, and with each disturbance in tonal difference, this sound field will be ruined.

                    Therefor you do need equal speakers for best system integration. Your list of increasing system increasing is almost right, you need to exchange 1 and 2, which will then be correct.

                    Anyway... lets not discuss this further in this topic, since it is becoming too much offtopic. Maybe I'll open a general topic about this 4 E's concept (which is not mine, but someone else came up with it).

                    I agree with nicholas btw

                    Comment

                    • sikoniko
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 2299

                      #11
                      I had the option of upgrading my fronts (805s) or my rears to 805's and he said that i should upgrade my primary speakers first. and secondary ones(rear speakers) later. I now have the 804s. heh. still 603's as my rears which work great for now.
                      I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

                      Comment

                      • ti33er
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 252

                        #12
                        Warning REL Sub!

                        Hi M8 - I know this is off the topic slightly, but within regard to your initial post, I hope you realise that the "REL Storm III" is about to become obsolete, and that the Strata 5 is a better, and smaller sub with remote control! 8O :W (I sold mine a month ago in prep to get the new room shaker!)
                        "...if it's too loud, you're too old!"

                        Comment

                        • greggz
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2002
                          • 317

                          #13
                          gsiokis, a couple thoughts, since you asked... I have a N805/HTM2/SCM1 setup with a REL Strata III.

                          To me the 804's and 805's do sound different enough, so it’s up to your personal taste which you choose for your mains. The HTM1 goes with the 804 and up, the HTM2 goes with the 805's. I wouldn't recommend mismatching them to save money (i.e N04s with a HTM2). Your front soundstage will seem un-even.

                          I have the SCM1's and while they sound great, I am having a lot of trouble placing them. I've moved/remounted them 3 times now (patching drywall, painting, etc...). I am seriously considering selling them and getting another pair 805's for the rears. (my listening is 50/50 HT and SACD).

                          When it comes to music, the Strata III is better suited to the 805's, and the Storm III to the 804's. I spoke at great length with Sumiko about these subs before buying. If I wanted deeper with the 805's, they recommended skipping the Storm and moving to the Stadium III. (They also highly recommend using two REL Strata's for better in-room bass response.)

                          If you are considering spending REL level $$$ on a sub, then you might as well audition the new Nautilus subs too (the ASW800 and ASW850). I think the ASW800 is around the same price as the Strata and the ASW850 is around the same price as the Stadium. I'm sure if you are looking to buy 5 nautilus speakers from your dealer he would gladly let you demo the ASW in home.

                          Finally, ti33er, I don’t believe that the Strata V is intended to "surpass" the Storm. A common European complaint about the Strata III was that it was too big 8O (hard to believe,but true). Because the Strata V has a smaller enclosure, they have used a slightly larger amp on it (150w vs. 100w). I don’t believe they are changing the woofer. The Strata's use a more generic Vifa 10" woofer and the Storm uses a beefier Volt 10" woofer. Plus the Strata's are sealed and the Storm is ported. I think the new Strata V may get a few dB lower than the Strata III but when it comes to boom-boom I think the Storm will still put out more SPL's in the lower dB's than the either Strata.
                          Gregg

                          Our Home Theater

                          Comment

                          • SomaJoe
                            Member
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 56

                            #14
                            I'm using 4 N805's and 1 HTM2, with a REL Storm III (5.1) and I've been very pleased. I was considering the SCM-1, but I was interested in multichannel audio as well, so I went with 805's all around as I wanted the best match possible.

                            With my setup (front projection), I eventually ended up using a stand to raise the HTM2 such that the tweeter heights were all the same for all my front speakers. So in retrospect, if I was going to include 1 speaker for the rear as well (6.1), I might have gone for 3 pairs of 805's.

                            I needed special sized stands for my front L&R, so I got custom made stands from Sound Anchors. They're heavy and bolt onto the speakers as well, but with 1 screw as opposed to 2 on the B&W stands (I think).
                            Joe's HT

                            Comment

                            • ti33er
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 252

                              #15
                              Hi Gregg, no offence meant by this at all, but Mr Richard E Lord (REL's owner) told me himself at the Bristol HiFi show. They are discontinuing the Storm III because the Strata 5 is sonically superior to it, and it is also cheaper! - it uses the same technology as the Q150 MKII that has won all those awards!!! :
                              "...if it's too loud, you're too old!"

                              Comment

                              • greggz
                                Senior Member
                                • Jun 2002
                                • 317

                                #16
                                Hi ti33er,

                                There is nothing offensive about having more accurate information.

                                I am very surprised to learn that the Strata V is indeed the replacement for the Storm III. Given that I am in the camp that prefers sealed over ported, I would to agree with REL's "sonically superior" comment, but I reserve judgment on whether or not the "Q-series technology" solves the HT vs. music bailiwick that REL struggles with. I know the Q150 has been well reviewed in the British press, but it has also received less than stellar reviews from users over on the UK forum that I follow.

                                I was looking to add a 2nd Strata III to my setup, but I am now going to wait until I can audition a Strata V in-house. I don’t know if anyone else is interested, but I eagerly look forward to hearing what you have to say about the Strata V when it arrives.
                                Gregg

                                Our Home Theater

                                Comment

                                • ti33er
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Apr 2004
                                  • 252

                                  #17
                                  Hi again, LOL, it will be a wee while before the 2nd half will let me get it the REL (a new home is priority at the moment!), but I can assure you that Mr Lord, and his Head European Installation Engineer both assured me that it was sonically superior in every way! ...he said that they were soon to retire the Storm III (they arent actively manufacturing them anymore apparently) because the Strata V is superior and they cannot sell a more expensive unit that is inferior? ...that was enough to convince me to flog mine asap before the rest of the world caught on, and my Storm became effectively...worthless! ARGH!! :W

                                  PS. They said the Stampede model was not as good as the Storm, but 2 Stampede's would certainly outdo a single Storm!
                                  "...if it's too loud, you're too old!"

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  😀
                                  😂
                                  🥰
                                  😘
                                  🤢
                                  😎
                                  😞
                                  😡
                                  👍
                                  👎
                                  Searching...Please wait.
                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded.

                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                  An unexpected error was returned: 'Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

                                  Please push the back button and reload the previous window.'
                                  An internal error has occurred and the module cannot be displayed.
                                  There are no results that meet this criteria.
                                  Search Result for "|||"