B&W 805S or 804S?

[drsiebling]

Hello everyone...

The time has come to replace my trusty old B&W 602s3 main speakers. I've been looking at both the 804S and 805S and can't seem to make up my mind which would be better suited for me and my listening environment. Obviously, the lower price of the 805S has me very tempted to go that direction, but I just can't make up my mind. My room is medium sized and the speakers would be used in a home theatre environment. Power would come from a Rotel RSX-1056. Money is an issue here and I'd prefer to not have to buy a new amp immediately.

Any comments or suggestions? I would appreciate any feedback that any of you might have...

[audioqueso]

If it's price, might as well go with the 804S because you will want a sub to match with your 805S. I have a pair of Nautilus 805s, but ended up spending $200 on stands, sand, etc, plus about $800 (I think) for my Velodyne sub. I love the combination, but fact of the matter is that if one were to purchase my setup, it would be more cost efficient to buy the 804S. However, the 804 can not match a 805 + sub combo for movies.

[drsiebling]

I'm already well taken care of in the sub category (M&K). What it comes down to, is the 804s will cost me roughly $1000 more than the 805s w/ the B&W stands. I'm afraid though, that the 804 will require me having to purchase a new amp... I thought my RSX-1056 might be a bit underpowered for the 804.

[audioqueso]

The RSX-1056 will play the 805s, but you will really be cutting the 805s short if you plan on powering them with a A/V receiver for long. If you have a sub, I'd say go for the 805S.

[drsiebling]

The RSX-1056 will play the 805s, but you will really be cutting the 805s short if you plan on powering them with a A/V receiver for long. If you have a sub, I'd say go for the 805S.

Cool... I plan on upgrading to a Rotel RB-1080 in the near future, but due to a problem with my main speakers, they have to be replaced immediately. I suppose that for the price of the 804S I can get a pair of 805S, the stands and a RB-1080.

Hmmm... Tomorrow might just be an exciting day after all!

[Karma]

If it's price, might as well go with the 804S because you will want a sub to match with your 805S. I have a pair of Nautilus 805s, but ended up spending $200 on stands, sand, etc, plus about $800 (I think) for my Velodyne sub. I love the combination, but fact of the matter is that if one were to purchase my setup, it would be more cost efficient to buy the 804S. However, the 804 can not match a 805 + sub combo for movies.

HI drsiebling,
I'll echo audioqueso's views except I'll say it louder. I have my 805S's driven by Krell electronics and with dual ASW800 subs in a rather small bedroom environment (12 X 16 X 8 ). This system is absolutely amazing. I did not go this route to save money because I didn't. Rather, I felt the sound was much superior in my room.

The bass will shame even the 801's. I do not view the 805S's as a stepping stone to floorstanders but an end unto themselves.

Sparky

[drsiebling]

HI drsiebling,
I'll echo audioqueso's views except I'll say it louder. I have my 805S's driven by Krell electronics and with dual ASW800 subs in a rather small bedroom environment (12 X 16 X 8 ). This system is absolutely amazing. I did not go this route to save money because I didn't. Rather, I felt the sound was much superior in my room.

The bass will shame even the 801's. I do not view the 805S's as a stepping stone to floorstanders but an end unto themselves.

Sparky

That is exactly what I needed to hear... I love the sound of the 805S and I've had a really hard time justifying the 804... by either price or performance. It just doesn't seem to be that much of an upgrade (if any at all) for the extra $$$. Now if only my wife would allow me to take the Krell route as well...

[audioqueso]

You really have to ask yourself what you want now and in the future. If you are going to music only, I would say go for the 804S. I assume you are part music, part HT as you already have a RSX-1056. In this case, ask yourself what you want your ultimate setup to be? I was in the market for the 805s or 704s because of price. At the end, I was given a pair of 805s. What I really want is pair of 802s or 800s. I love my 805s. Matched with my Velodyne, it's a great HT/music setup. So my plans are to add my rears, and be happy until I can purchase a pair of 802/800 along with a pair of monoblocks that will do them justice. I will take my 805s and use them as rears. So think about it in those terms. Good luck.

[bullitt731]

Hello everyone...

The time has come to replace my trusty old B&W 602s3 main speakers. I've been looking at both the 804S and 805S and can't seem to make up my mind which would be better suited for me and my listening environment. Obviously, the lower price of the 805S has me very tempted to go that direction, but I just can't make up my mind. My room is medium sized and the speakers would be used in a home theatre environment. Power would come from a Rotel RSX-1056. Money is an issue here and I'd prefer to not have to buy a new amp immediately.

Any comments or suggestions? I would appreciate any feedback that any of you might have...

Sent you a PM.

[RebelMan]

I concur with some of the points made earlier in that if your preferences lean toward the home theater side of the equation the 805S are the way to go but they are not the best price/performance option once you factor in the cost of the speaker stands and they can't touch the 804S for it's superior midrange. If music is important to you consider the 804S, if it is secondary the 805S will suffice.

The RSX-1056 will drive either pair with no problem, just as long as you don't get carried away with it. I compared my 803S with both the RSX-1056 and the RB-1080 and there was virtually no difference in sound quality only SPL driveability.

BTW, if you factor in the typical 10%-15% discount the price difference dwindles to $810-$765.

What do you intend to do about a center?

[Karma]

HI,
Again Rebel imposes his opinion as though it were cosmic fact. I will register my disagreement with his views but will not get into an arguement over the issue. We have been there before and obviously nothing was gained. Sorry Reb but I think you are wrong though I know you are well intended. You just love all that crossover distortion.

Sparky

[yourtoys7]

I'd say 804S and my 1057 has no isues driving them (only if volume goes higher up you could tell). I really liked 805S, but like someone pointed out, the price of stand.
I ended up stratching my badget little more than I wanted too, but now very, very happy with what I have.
+ when and if you deside to sell them I think you'll get more back for 804S.

[Blindamood]

Keep in mind that you don't have to use B&W stands with the 805S. There are many other options that don't cost as much $. See mine below, on Sound Organisation stands, for example. I love my 805S/HTM4S setup, especially now that I've added the ASW850 sub. For a home theater setup, this configuration is top notch.

[drsiebling]

The RSX-1056 will drive either pair with no problem, just as long as you don't get carried away with it. I compared my 803S with both the RSX-1056 and the RB-1080 and there was virtually no difference in sound quality only SPL driveability.

BTW, if you factor in the typical 10%-15% discount the price difference dwindles to $810-$765.

What do you intend to do about a center?

Music is VERY important in the system. The mains will have to do double duty as both a great speaker for music and HT. I've done quite a bit of listening to both speakers and can see the benefits of both. I don't know if this is a factor, but there is a coffee table in the room that stands in-between the mains and the listening position. It is in direct line of sight with the lower woofer on the 804... the 805 stands well above it. I don't know it that's even an issue to be concerned with. My local dealer will do 10% off and is offering 0% interest financing. Including the stands, the 804 will run me a little more than a thousand more than the 805... again... I'm not sure about the value there as I love the sound of the 805. I also currently run a CM-C center channel and that will have to be replaced in the near future as well, but should be acceptable in the short term. Or am I wrong?

[RebelMan]

In response to "Karma the Great" comment, it is true that I don’t like a wooden, boxy, shut-in sound. That might be a harsh critique of the 805S but comparatively speaking to the 804S the description is apropos. This, however, shouldn’t be misconstrued as a deterrent to owning a pair. In fact I own a pair of SCMS that are largely based on the 805S and I love them.

I actually prefer two-way monitors over floor standers for reasons that go beyond sound quality. But when I was faced with a similar decision a year and a half ago I realized that the 805S lacks to much resolve. I wouldn’t mind and would recommend a full complement of 805S for HT applications but I am far more discerning when it comes to music. While the 805S can rise to the occasion in some situations it’s still a two-way bookshelf. It simply cannot muster in full effect the three-dimensional soundscape of its larger brethren nor can it free the vocals that get trapped within, which music is highly dependent upon.

B&W 800 speakers have some of the lowest distortion levels in the business and the crossover networks they employ are some of the best. I find it quite amusing that a “few” people will comment on the filter distortions they claim to hear but neglect to mention how insignificant they are compared to the levels of bass distortion that occurs from subwoofer integration which can be and often is several orders of magnitude higher. I believe this is the reason why they cannot hear what it is they are missing.

drsiebling, given your budget constraints I think the CM-C will satisfactorily get you buy. Unless the center is identical to the LR mains it will always be a compromise at best. The HTM4S is better suited for the 805S and the HTM3S the 804S but exceptions can be made, and usually are when price dictates.

[D-bucket]

HI,
Again Rebel imposes his opinion as though it were cosmic fact. I will register my disagreement with his views but will not get into an arguement over the issue. We have been there before and obviously nothing was gained. Sorry Reb but I think you are wrong though I know you are well intended. You just love all that crossover distortion.

Sparky

Obviously, I am missing something here and I just don't get it. Karma, why initiate a totally uncalled for flat-out unprovoked sarcastic attact on RebelMan for expressing his opinion. While you have every right to disagree with his opinion and even post counter opinions, the negative manner & combative tone in which you offered your counter opinion is less than tactful and distasteful because that was nothing in this thread so far that warranted such an hostile attack. I value both your input & RebelMan's input, so would it be asking too much to tone down the attitude?

Btw, the OP clearly asked for everyone's input.

Any comments or suggestions? I would appreciate any feedback that any of you might have...

[Karma]

HI,
Yes, there is a history. I respect Reb's opinion as long as it is presented as an opinion. Reb is a valuable and knowledgeable member but I enjoy jabbing at him because out tastes are different. Sorry Reb. We must agree to disagree.

Sparky

[D-bucket]

Ok, thanks for background & rationale.

Yes, in this hobby, when it come to selecting speakers & electronics, there are often times unrelenting competing forces that dictates some sort of compromise.

- HT vs Music application
- System components now vs future system upgrade considerations
- Balance & synergy in present system vs stepping up to higher system one component at a time
- Best sounding components vs aesthetic & WAF
- The system one really likes & wants vs the system one can afford
- opportunity to personally demo potential components vs having to rely only on reviews and recommendations of others

So if and when we are fortunate enough to finally put a system together that we truly enjoy and takes us to that "happy place", it is really quite an accomplishment.

[RebelMan]

I respect Reb's opinion as long as it is presented as an opinion.

Likewise. Karma's (Sparky) statement "The bass will shame even the 801's." could also be interpreted as an opinion expressed as fact. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and understood his comment to be his opinion, I would expect the same courtesy in return. However, my experience with Sparky has shown that he can be opinionated to the point were he does get personal with some of his remarks. In spite of it all, I find Sparky to be a valued contributor and I always look forward to reading what he has to say even though we don’t always agree.

[Briz vegas]

One thing I have learnt from this forum over and over again is that hifi is very personal. Everyone has their own opinion and we all like to express it. This is one of the few places where we can talk hifi without getting rolled eyes :roll: or someone quickly changing the subject :tennis: . So anyway, you're both wrong and I'm right. :twisted: :roll:

I came from 705 to the lower 800 series, and as I was looking for my last upgrade (unless I win lotto) I went for the speaker I liked to listen to the most. 804s was just that bit more convincing musically so I found the extra dollars.

Having just removed my receiver completely from the (2 channel) signal path (thanks to Conrad Johnson) I have just spent the evening revisiting some old CDs that I never guessed could sound so good. Definitely no regrets, and there will be more to come next year when I get round to getting a decent CD spinner.

On the other hand if 805s is your preferred sound then go for it.

[monkeyboy69]

ok dont' want to get in the middle of an all out war but I've got 805s paired up with a velodyne spl1200 and it sounds fantastic, admitidly had money been no option then I would have plumped for 803 but I'm really happy with the sound and punch the pair pack, all driven by arcam av8 and p7

[AptosJeff]

drsiebling,
I too was in your position a few months ago. I was looking at 805 and 804, though only for a 2 ch system. I had listened to both in a couple of stores and they were the cheapest speakers I actually liked. I first brought home the 805's with option to upgrade. I liked them a lot, and really noticed the improved dynamics and lack of distortion over my old spkrs. I did think they were a bit bright for my taste (probably the room and source material actually). I also wanted a full range spkr, as even though I have a sub, I don't think it integrates well with the main spkrs. So after listening for a month, I traded them for 804's.

Here are my thoughts on the two spkrs:
1. Both have good imaging and an open, spacious sound.
2. Both sound very clean and undistorted to me, though I found them unforgiving of electronics and source material. I ended up upgrading my amp/preamp and am now looking for a better cdp.
3. The 804's are slightly less 'bright' sounding. It is a matter of taste, but I have heard others concur with this. The 804 does have the fst midrange. BTW, the 804 has 2 woofers, not 1.
4. They both have tight, well-defined bass, and both are adequate for me in 90% of the music I listen to. Not having HT, the 804 bass is fine as is for me.
5. Both spkrs played to adequate loudness with just a 25W tube amp. They are not inefficient spkrs, but both can benefit from serious power, as long as it is clean.

In sum, if 2 ch music is more important, go with the 804 and no sub. If HT, many here are suggesting the 805 with sub. You can't go wrong either way, so enjoy!

[Karma]

HI Jeff,
Even for music I would not have the 805S's without good subs. I am a bass freak. The bass on 805S's, or any mini-monitor desgn, is bass shy. It's the nature of their design.

While older recordings were typically bass shy (there are many exceptions) more modern recordings can often be bass rich. I love to feel my pants legs shake. For me, good subs are essential with these speakers. Of course, ones musical taste will vary this need. For chamber music or classical vocal subs may not be needed. But for pipe organ music one can't be without. For HT it is a non-call.

So, in considering the 805S's I would automatically factor 2 subs into the cost. This makes them expensive but they are worth it giving truly full frequency range quality sound.

Sparky

[AptosJeff]

Hey Karma,
Yes, I know bass is important for many types of classical. I am a big pipe organ fan myself. For me though, I care more about the sound quality in the upper bass and midrange, as that is where most of the music is. Even the harmonics of deep bass notes are in the upper bass or midrange. So I'm more interested in how the harmonics are reproduced than the strength of the fundamental. (Maybe if I had a better sub, I'd have a different opinion!)

If you like classical organ music, I wish you could hear some of my master tapes. I used to be a recordnig eng and have a pretty good collection. The reel to reel masters still blow away most all LP's and CD's I've heard.

Jeff

[Karma]

HI Jeff,
I believe it. I would love to hear them. What are you using for a reel to reel machine? Good ones as far as I know are only available used. When I had my repair business I specialized in high end consumer tape machines both R to R and Nakamichi cassete machines. I love tape but they are going the way of the Dodo I'm afraid. It's hard to find parts for the great Nakamichi's and some Teac's are impossible to fix. Too Bad. Revox, well forget it. Tandburg? I don't know because I seldom saw one. Either they were very reliable or nobody bought them. Funny though; I could get Ampex parts even though Ampex has not made consumer machines for a long time.

The upper harmonics are important to me too. It's all important; every single stitch. That's why great hi fi's cost a lot of money. They get everything more or less right. A difficult task to be sure. Great and deep bass does not mean that the lower mid and upper bass suffers. I don't think you can conclude that.

Sparky

[AptosJeff]

Sparky,
The only machine I still have is a Sony 650. Believe it or not, it still works fine after 35 yr, though I am worried about spares. The only thing I've needed so far is a set of heads and regular calibration & brake adjustment. Don't use it much anymore, but would if I knew I could get spares or another machine. Anyway, the tapes were made on Studer B62's, using two Neumann KM83's or M50's. No eq or anything, just a Studer mixer and a pretty live hall. Maybe I should look for a used one. We never had much luck with cassettes; we tried a top of the line Nakamichi but couldn't calibrate it and it just didn't have the dynamic range.

OK, if I don't get back on topic soon they will kick us out. I agree with you on bass, it's best to have it all. It's just that some people obsess over how low or loud it is instead of the sound quality. Like I said, I have a sub, but prefer the sound without it and think 804 is adequate for 2 ch. Just my opinion here.

Jeff

[Karma]

HI Jeff,
I don't wish to hyjack this thread but I don't get a chance to talk to a real, professional recording engineer very often. So I ask everybodies forgiveness. I want to take advantage.

Back in the days of vinyl, deep bass was fairly unusual. There were a few exceptions like the great Mercury 1812 Overture but other than some pipe organ, bass was modest. I came to the opinion the the mixing engineers were intensionally reducing bass levels because none but the most expensive turntable/cartridge systems could track the gigantic bass groove excursions. This would be back in the 1950's and '60's

Then, as turntable and cartidge technology improved in the 1970's and 80's, great bass became more common. For example, the wonderful Sheffield Direct to Disk recordings. I have all but one of their releases on vinyl. Mostly, they were not great music but as historical examples of the recording art, they were beyond great. Doug Sax is great, IMO. Unfortunately, in the middle '60's up until, maybe, the early 1980's, studios converted to solid state studio and cutting electronics. Just my opinion but these early solid state based recordings were close to unlistenable. The golden age of recording was, I think, the late 1950's through the late 1960's before all the studios converted to the new technology.

BTW, the Mercury 1812 was recorded and released in mono in, I believe, 1955. I have a mono version. Later, after 1958 (?) when stereo phono became available it was released in stereo. I have that one too. The point is the original recording was recorded multichannel. Was it released in 1955 in stereo on tape? I'll bet it was. Stereo tape was on the market by then.

Sigh....... I also have the Mercury CD release. There's no explaining the collector mentality. It is a sickness.

These are my views. Can you add to this historical perspective or tell me I'm full of it? Don't hesitate, I can take it (I hope).

Thanks, Sparky

Edited to Add: I'd try to get a Studer while you can. As you know, there are none better. If nothing else it would be a wonderful centerpiece in your music room. Then you could fire it up for friends and totally blow them away. Yes, do it. Oh, I like the idea!!

[AptosJeff]

OK Sparky, this may have to go to a pm or another thread. That is a lot to comment on, but I'll try to get back in the next few days. If others are interested, we can start a new thread in Audio Hideout. Comments from the moderators?

Jeff

[D-bucket]

... I have my 805S's driven by Krell electronics and with dual ASW800 subs in a rather small bedroom environment (12 X 16 X 8 )...

Wow, I guess it would be fair to say that you have no problems at all fully exciting every single molecule in that space. Is this a 2.2 audio or 5.2 ht/audio system? How do you have your 2 subs connected & positioned? Were there any special issues or considerations in getting them dialed in to your satisfaction? Inquiring minds want to know!

[Karma]

OK Sparky, this may have to go to a pm or another thread. That is a lot to comment on, but I'll try to get back in the next few days. If others are interested, we can start a new thread in Audio Hideout. Comments from the moderators?

Jeff

HI Jeff,
Whatever it takes I'm game.

Sparky

[Karma]

Wow, I guess it would be fair to say that you have no problems at all fully exciting every single molecule in that space. Is this a 2.2 audio or 5.2 ht/audio system? How do you have your 2 subs connected & positioned? Were there any special issues or considerations in getting them dialed in to your satisfaction? Inquiring minds want to know!

HI bucket,
Boy, I wish I had no problems! Of course the main problem is a small room which is never condusive to great sound. I just do the best I can.

This is a 5.1 system for HT. But for music I run the subs as a stereo pair. The subs are placed as close to their respective 805S as I can get them which is within about one foot behind along the front wall.

I designed and built a subwoofer switching system that allows them to be switched from the AV processor LFE output for 5.1 to the output of a Krell preamp for stereo music. The sub switcher also has a remote volume control that lets me optimize the base for individual albums or even individual cuts. It works well.

For music, I run the 805S's full range with the foam plugs installed. For HT I use the processors LFE high pass filter set at 40Hz to protect the 805S's from potentially destructive deep bass. At this cut off frequency, the filter has little effect on the actual output from the speakers because they roll off at a higher frequency. It's strictly a protective measure.

For music, my first priority, I run the 805S's full range with no filtration. The subs roll off at about 48Hz for both music and HT. This does not change.

As an aside, I think most folks expect too much from their subs. In this case more is better than less. Two subs are better than one. There are many good reasons for this but two stick out. First, each sub works half as hard thus lowering distortion. Next, the enevitable bass standing waves are spread out with one set from each sub. And each set is half the amplitude compared to a single sub.

Ths bass from this system is good but a bigger room would make it better.

Sparky

[D-bucket]

Nice going! You have a unique & intriguing setup there and I see you are not at all intimidated by the challenges of utilizing a smaller space and have put a lot of thought into maximizing it. Not only do you have dual subs, but you have found an interesting way for them to pull double duty differently in the audio & ht settings.

[azvantage]

I have had the 805, 804, and 803. I made the progression in the standard fashion.

In my opinion, the 804's with sound anchor stands had the best overall sound. The 803's had slightly more bass but overall not as 'accurate' in my opinion.

[Rolex]

I'm a monitor freak. Don't need a ton of bass, nor do I want it. I love the way monitors sound for 2-channel. Which is why I chose the 805S over the 804S. (free of subs) Plus, they were cheaper, which was a nice benefit.

[AptosJeff]

HI Jeff,
Whatever it takes I'm game.

Sparky

Hi Sparky,

Well, you had a lot to say in that post, and I thought I should take some time to respond in kind. So, sorry this took a while. Don’t get the idea I am some important recording engineer; I did it only for about 4 yrs back in my college days in the mid 70’s. Mostly classical with some big band jazz. It put me through grad school, and I dearly loved it. No doubt, the best job I ever had. I was fortunate to work in a facility with state of the art (at the time) venues and equipment though, and we did learn from the some of the best - Decca’s engineers. It’s a long story, but back to your post.

Yes, not much deep bass on records, it takes up too much room, esp if it is loud and deep. I think a realistic amount of organ pedal notes could shorten the playing time of an LP enough to make it impractical. So Ithink they had to roll off the deep bass and/or reduce (compress) the volume. I really don’t know much about the record making process; maybe the cutting head would not do it, or cartridges couldn’t track it. Anyway, I always thought that was the least of the problems with records. To me, they sounded compressed, with a lot of distortion and of course, noise after some normal wear and tear. We would have records made (not bad either – mastered by Bob Ludwig) and then compare them to the master tapes or a dub of the m-tape and there was just no comparison.

So I just tuned out from records and concentrated on the tapes. I agree that some of the old SS electronics was awful. We used a large assortment of mics, and usually did orchestra with tube mics – the M50, mainly. I loved that mic, and also did some of my best piano recordings with it. We had quite a few mics and could duplicate the setup of any of the major classical labels. We liked Decca (London) the best, but we tried many things. I was more partial to using just 2 or 3 omni mics, preferably the 50’s. Dolby was common then, but I would often make a parallel master with no noise reduction. We had about 40 Neumann mics, the first Dolby A units in the US, I believe, along with 11 Studer A-62 and B-62 tape machines and two Studer mixing consoles. It was tough to find decent amps and monitor speakers, and I think that was part of the reason so many recordings back then were not so good – lousy playback systems. But there are quite a few decent recordings from as far back as the late 50’s.

Anyway, low bass was not a problem with tape, except that it did increase the requirement for dynamic range and thus tape hiss could be a problem. And it may seem odd, but while you could record deep bass in many tape formats, the faster speeds (15ips, 30ips) actually had less smooth freq response, because of what was called “head bumps”. Not a big deal really, you could calibrate a B-62 to be within 0.2 dB from 50 hz to 15 KHz, and we did all the time.

I’m sure records have gotten better, but the jump to CD and other media, make it pretty hard to get much even if you want. And reel to reel? Hopeless. Although I did just find a site that is making old r to r recordings available on high quality CD’s. http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/index.html And there’s a guy with his own site who likes FM broadcasts (no kidding). http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Default.aspx

You are right, I should get a good r-r before they really are extinct. I think many audiophiles would be delighted to hear an all analog source with the dynamic range and clean sound of a good master tape. I would be afraid to play some of the bass drum recordings I have through my little 804’s at volume. But I will say, I am happy to see the quality of CD’s seems to be improving. Well, they will surely kick us out of this thread now.

Good luck in your quest for bass,
Jeff

[Karma]

HI Jeff,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Very interesting. One of the problems vinyl playback folks face is the expense of a really first class turntable/tone arm/preamp set up. While less expensive equipment can give a taste of the sonic treasures on well recorded records, first class equipment can give the full meal.

Sparky

[EastCoaster]

Hello everyone...

The time has come to replace my trusty old B&W 602s3 main speakers. I've been looking at both the 804S and 805S and can't seem to make up my mind which would be better suited for me and my listening environment. Obviously, the lower price of the 805S has me very tempted to go that direction, but I just can't make up my mind. My room is medium sized and the speakers would be used in a home theatre environment. Power would come from a Rotel RSX-1056. Money is an issue here and I'd prefer to not have to buy a new amp immediately.

Any comments or suggestions? I would appreciate any feedback that any of you might have...

I currently have four 805s, an HTM4, and ASW 825, and use them 30/70 for HT and music in a small-ish living room.

For a few months, I've been day-dreaming about upgrading my speakers (a mild case of upgradtitis) and a couple of weeks ago I went back to audition the 804s versus the 805s. After spending quite a bit of time A/B both on my favorite tracks, I ended up liking the 805s better... The 804s of course had more bass, but that's taken care of by my sub. The 805s on the other hand just sounded sweeter, and the high notes were just more defined, less fuzzy. Maybe some people call that "bright", but I like it a lot. Vocals, guitar picking, electronic music, to MY ear, sounded better on the 805s. I also found it astonishing that a bookshelf speaker could come so close to a floor-stander... Despite my WANTING to upgrade, and having the cash in hand, I decided it would just be foolish to do so... I walked away without upgrading my speakers. Instead, I'm going to upgrade the electronics once HDMI 1.3 comes around.

Also, if you like HT and want a sub, the difference in price gets you a long way toward buying a sub that will service you much better for HT.

Finally, if funds are limited, I think buying the B&W 805 stands is just silly... I bought perfectly fine all metal stands - and they look great, and I don't think the incremental difference in sound between a $75 stand and the B&W stand (if any difference can be heard) justifies the $500 expense per stand... You'd get so much more bang for your buck by moving a carpet, or making sure your speakers are placed correctly, or getting a couple of inexpensive accoustical panels, etc.

Just my two cent's worth. Despite wanting to upgrade the 805s to 804s, I heard no reason to do it when I A/B'd them...