B&W Subs

[hamiltong]

Hey Folks,

Looking for comments on B&W subs.. I currently have an ASW650 and looking to upgrade within the B&W line. Any thoughts on the subject. My main speakers are from the CDM NT line - 7's and 1's.

[sikoniko]

I can't offer any opinions, but I too would like some opinions on the 800 and 850 subs. I have an old as6 that I would like to upgrade.

[hanser]

I just ordered a REL Strata III for my B&W CDM 7NTs. First I thought about B&W subs, but I wanted a lower crossover than 40 Hz, and the REL goes down to 22 Hz. This way, I can run the 7NTs full range, and just add the bottom octave without bass doubling. In addition, the REL offers a second independent input, where the XO can be deactivated, for .1 channel on movie soundtracks.

[Scarp]

If you want a B&W subwoofer and are looking for an upgrade to the 650, then take a look at the 750. It will give good performance in both movie and music.

The ASW800 has the same driver, amp and even specifications to the 750, but its a lot more expensive.

Offcourse amps like Rel or SVS are nice options too.

@hanser: do you use that for music or for movies? I think its not a very good idea to do that. Its the first time I see anyone doing that, but generally I would leave everything below 80 Hz up to a subwoofer, which frees the speaker of the burden to push the 40 to 80 Hz range, which is more easily done by a subwoofer.

This should work well in both movie and music, if properly calibrated.

[hamiltong]

It would appear as though the ASW CDM, ASW 750 & ASW 800 are relatively the same - with the exception of the following:

- Minor cabinet dimension differences between all three models.
- ASW 800 having 'matrix bracing'.
- Price (huge difference).

All three have the same crossovers, same drivers and same amplifiers. Hmmm :?:

[hanser]

@hanser: do you use that for music or for movies? I think its not a very good idea to do that. Its the first time I see anyone doing that, but generally I would leave everything below 80 Hz up to a subwoofer, which frees the speaker of the burden to push the 40 to 80 Hz range, which is more easily done by a subwoofer.

This should work well in both movie and music, if properly calibrated.

I know, this is standard recommendation for HT. Now, I use the system for both HT and music, but I am more critical with music. I listen to a lot of classical music, mostly in stereo. For this i do not want the signal digitized for bass management, since I prefer the sound of my CD player. And, I love the sound of my CDMs and fear to make things worse in the middle bass department by adding an additional crossover and letting a sub do the jog. I just like the sound for music as it is, and would only like to have a bit more subbass below 30Hz. For movies, I am not a fan of teeth rattling, wall shaking bass, although it is impressive, but it tends to bother me after a while. So i think the REL is the perfect solution for me. I will see...

[Scarp]

I'm wondering how you get the sound to the subwoofer?

You want your fronts to be passed on directly from source to fronts, so bass management in the pre/pro is out of the question. So, how do you get your bass signal?

[hanser]

REL recommends a high level connection, ie I connect the sub in parallel to the mainspeakers at the power amp. The resistance of the sub input is very high, so it will draw virtually no current and therefore be not a load to the power amp. This will be the way i connect the stereo channels. the LFE for movies I connect via low level cable from the prepro.
REL offers the possivbility to use both connections simultaneously, and you can switch on/off the XO independently and change the volume independently for both connections. Which is the main reason for my choosing the REL.

[Nicholas Renter]

Hanser,

I totally agree with you. I've been running a REL in my system for years, and for HT or 2-channel, I think speaker level sub connections give you the most seamless transition across the lower-frequency spectrum. IMHO, and 80 Hz crossover is only acceptable if you have a sub for each channel, and the subs are placed the same distance away (and in the same direction) as the associated speaker.

With my N805s, I cross over my Strata III at 42 Hz (and some days I think that's still a bit too high).

[Scarp]

@hamiltong: I didn't do the listen tests myself, but from someone on another forum, we got the message that even though specification wise the 750 and 800 are the same, they seem to sound different. This would than mostly be caused by the different housing. Or maybe differences that cannot be extracted from the specifications.

So if you really consider such a subwoofer, then check them both and see which one you like most.

btw ... please leave the 80 Hz/crossover discussion out of this topic. Please start a topic in the AV Chalet or Hometheater sections of HTGuide about this, since its not B&W specific. (I know I started it a bit)

[junior77blue]

It would appear as though the ASW CDM, ASW 750 & ASW 800 are relatively the same - with the exception of the following:

- Minor cabinet dimension differences between all three models.
- ASW 800 having 'matrix bracing'.
- Price (huge difference).

All three have the same crossovers, same drivers and same amplifiers. Hmmm :?:

Has anyone actually compared the ASW750 vs. ASW800 side-by-side?

I wondering what the price premium is for the 800? Just finish?

I have an opportunity to pick up a new ASW800 for about $1800USD, which to me doesn't sound like a good deal. Not sure how much the 750 is going for yet...

Just seeing what options I have for my N802 setup.

[ac81017]

Has anyone actually compared the ASW750 vs. ASW800 side-by-side?

I wondering what the price premium is for the 800? Just finish?

I have an opportunity to pick up a new ASW800 for about $1800USD, which to me doesn't sound like a good deal. Not sure how much the 750 is going for yet...

Just seeing what options I have for my N802 setup.

I have tested the 750 and 825! side-by-side, and there wasn´t that much difference apart from the looks and price! I´ve just ordered the asw 750, i was going to buy the 825 from the start, but I just couldn´t hear any difference, and the guy in the hifi shop couldn´t hear any difference, the guy in the hifi shop has the snails ;x( and not one, but TWO asw 855´s ;x( !! e said in a low voice that he is a real hifi nerd!!

[junior77blue]

So, it's basically just cosmetic/finish?

Thanks for the input...

[Race Car Driver]

I want the 850

[RobP]

Does the ASW750 have the Matrix bracing?

[Race Car Driver]

I thought that was a no.

[junior77blue]

Does the ASW750 have the Matrix bracing?

Yes, this is indeed another benefit/difference between the two.

[Karma]

Hanser,

With my N805s, I cross over my Strata III at 42 Hz (and some days I think that's still a bit too high).

HI Nicholas,
I have 805S's mated to dual ASW800 subs. For music, I have the sub crossover set to 45HZ and the 805S's run full frequency. We have both come to the same conclusion.

For HT I try to protect the 805S's from the sometimes extreme low frequency, high amplitude bass many DVD's have. I set my processor for a high pass of 40Hz and the sub setting stays the same.

Recently I have started using the foam plugs in the 805S ports. This changes the bass response somewhat going from a typical ducted port alignment to one that resembles acoustic suspension. My theory is the reflex double hump is harder to integrate to the subs than the smoother acoustic suspension alignment. By doing so, the 805S bass extension, such as it is, does not go as low but is less boomy. The slight loss can be compensated by either the subs crossover frequency or level. You might want to experiment with the plugs. I think it works well.

Sparky

[miner]

Sparky,
If you ever decide to part with one of your ASW800 drop me a PM.

[style]

Subwoofer

I have really problem to find a good sub for my system.

B&W 703 front, HTM7 center, cdm7NT surr. & 601s3 back.
Denon 3805 + 3910 + 2800mkii - Panasonic th42pv60e

[style]

Sub.

I have really problem to find a good sub for my system.

B&W 703 front, HTM7 center, cdm7NT surr. & 601s3 back.
Denon 3805 + 3910 + 2800mkii - Panasonic th42pv60e

next upgrade is a good sub (in this moment Infinity&Jamo)
but i can't feel no more the "bang": the 703 going more low, i think is better
whitout the small infinity&Jamo. ---> But I need really 1000watt sub?
Velodyne in Switzerland is very expensive (DD10-12). I think the new B&W PV1 is a good solution (better as asw700) or asw750. = $ 1400 ca.
and other? REL, jm lab-focal, ... are available for ca. $ 600 and the people
is very pleased & happy.
;x( PLEASE HELP ME

Omar

for the Rmb1077 is in my mind :twisted:

[Karma]

Sparky,
If you ever decide to part with one of your ASW800 drop me a PM.

HI miner,
Haaaaaa!! Don't hold your breath :lol: .

Sparky

[BassThatHz]

Ideally we are neither trying to add or take away from what the sound engineers and artists intended right? If that means wall-shaking and teeth rattling then so be it. :rofl:

As far as crossover points… for example B&W uses 350hz from the bass to the fst driver in the 703, their design was to use a point where both can handle the input signal with the least distortion while keeping the pistons linear; there will always unavoidably be a doubling to some degree in the assigned area.

You would want to continue this theory to the bottom of the bass drivers of your main’s into the subwoofer. To achieve this you can use an SPL meter and a frequency sweep generator, what you need to find is the -3db point and set your subwoofer crossover to just above or below that, and then either increase or decrease the volume until the flattest response is generated.

In general the -3db point is considered the area in which the piston is no longer capable of truly tracking the input signal given the power available (its simply the laws of physics working against you). If you find that this point is localizable you may need two or more subwoofers to maintain the balanced soundstage… this is not uncommon. You’ll have to play with it a bit as each room and speaker combo has its own character or coloration if you will. :cry:

I hate to say it but if you can’t find the integration point between 80-40hz either your system is already very full range or your room acoustics are really bad. You could either try room treatments and/or a parametric subwoofer Eq to correct this to some degree. Worse case, your subwoofer isn’t of sufficient capability to be linear down low at the volumes your requesting (if at all) causing upper harmonic distortions above the crossover point, the results are muddy, boomy, (insert other descriptor) sound.

[ac81017]

I have really problem to find a good sub for my system.

B&W 703 front, HTM7 center, cdm7NT surr. & 601s3 back.
Denon 3805 + 3910 + 2800mkii - Panasonic th42pv60e

next upgrade is a good sub (in this moment Infinity&Jamo)
but i can't feel no more the "bang": the 703 going more low, i think is better
whitout the small infinity&Jamo. ---> But I need really 1000watt sub?
Velodyne in Switzerland is very expensive (DD10-12). I think the new B&W PV1 is a good solution (better as asw700) or asw750. = $ 1400 ca.
and other? REL, jm lab-focal, ... are available for ca. $ 600 and the people
is very pleased & happy.
;x( PLEASE HELP ME

Omar

for the Rmb1077 is in my mind :twisted:

Try the B&W asw 750!! It´s quite something!! Don´t froget rule number one!! It´s your ears that decide!! never let anyone else decide fot you! That I said TRY and not BUY the asw 750 :T