Speaker wire recommendation for CDM-7NT's

[NHT]

At the time, Im using regular 16 gauge wires(biwired) from my Rotel to B&W CDM-7NTs setup but its time for an upgrade to better speaker wires. I need some recommendation for the best bang for the buck speaker wires. Any suggestions? My budget is 200-300. Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

[biomed_eng_2000]

Home Depot has Carol speaker cable 16 ga x 4 conductor that is good for biwiring, I think it was like $0.30 per foot.

FYI, 16 ga paralleled x 2 = 13 ga. (For every doubling of wiring, the ga number goes down by 3.)

Spend your money on the things that will actually improve the sound...like diffusors, absorbers, etc from the likes of www.rpginc.com or similar also available at www.partsexpress.com .

[theMaximus]

As long as you go with respected manufacturers such as QED, AudioQuest, and Ecosse, you really can't go terribly wrong. QED Silver Anniversary is very highly regarded cable, and price is pretty reasonable. If you live in UK, there are plenty of dealers. If you live in the US (like me), it is kind of hard to find. At any given time, there are people selling it on eBay, mostly from UK. You can find AudioQuest or Ecosse dealers in the US very easily. I'm using AudioQuest GR8 biwire for my B&W 704 and pretty happy with them other than the fact that the wires are massive. Try different wires if you can to find the ones that complement your speakers.

Don't forget to check out CAT CABLE which sponsor this forum. I hear from other members that their cables are excellent (both interconnects and speaker wires). Their cables are hand crafted by a gentleman with user name Lex on this forum. You can probably send him messages if you have any questions.

[NHT]

Im sure that most people who have higher quality speaker cables have initially started out with cheap "spindle" cables. Was there a dramatic improvement when you stepped up to the brand name cables? Is it worth the upgrade or should I spend my money elsewhere?

[biomed_eng_2000]

NHT,
Please see:
http://home.austin.rr.com/tnulla/dunlavy.htm This is written by physicist and electrical engineer John Dunlavy concerning speaker cable.

Are familiar with The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt? It is about TOC, the Theory of Constraints. Basically, it tells us to concentrate out efforts/money on the things that will make the most difference to the end goal. In the case of audio, the highest distortion comes from speakers and the room acoustics, NOT from any electric component like CD player, amps, cable, etc.

Your time and money should be concentrated on speakers and room acoustics, once those are maxed out, then you should concentrate on improving the already low distortion electronic components.

[RobR]

Home Depot has Carol speaker cable 16 ga x 4 conductor that is good for biwiring, I think it was like $0.30 per foot.

FYI, 16 ga paralleled x 2 = 13 ga. (For every doubling of wiring, the ga number goes down by 3.)

Spend your money on the things that will actually improve the sound...like diffusors, absorbers, etc from the likes of www.rpginc.com or similar also available at www.partsexpress.com .

Sorry but, No, don't do it, I bought Home Depot wire and it was crap. (2wire 14gage in wall) I was just dealing with this question at another forum. Best to buy Monster XPHP or Acoustic Research 12/14 gage wire. Spending a bill on good wire is better spent than saving the fifty-sixty bucks elsewhere. I mean really, where can you effectively spend that petty cash on... I don't think on the other stuff mentioned. You spent this much so far, don't cripple your system now.

[biomed_eng_2000]

NHT,
Spending money on audio jewelry (such beautiful looking cable) is absolutely a valid idea. All the benefits such as beauty, color coordination, bling factor, impressing friends, and staying in good standing with your audio dealer exist. However, don't be fooled into thinking that it will sound any different than what you already have.

I myself have Audioquest Type-6 cables because it makes my friends say "wow, those are some fat cables!" Other than that, the biwire 16ga that you have will sound the same.

[sikoniko]

NHT,
Spending money on audio jewelry (such beautiful looking cable) is absolutely a valid idea. All the benefits such as beauty, color coordination, bling factor, impressing friends, and staying in good standing with your audio dealer exist. However, don't be fooled into thinking that it will sound any different than what you already have.

I myself have Audioquest Type-6 cables because it makes my friends say "wow, those are some fat cables!" Other than that, the biwire 16ga that you have will sound the same.

I completely and 100% disagree with this. My cousins like to harass me because of what I have put into my system, but I will say that ever piece has had a significant impact.

My front speakers (left, right and center) are linked by MIT Terminator2 bi-wire cable's which in my opinion are worth every penny. my rear speakers are monster cable, which I don't even remember what gauge it is, but only because I've not owned a house, and my rear speakers are still 603's. May reconsider these when those change.

Above that, I have upgraded my power cables for my amp/ receiver / dvd player as well as put in a brick wall 2raud to provide clean power to my equipment. Every piece I upgraded made my system sound more dynamic, three dimensional and alive than with stock stuff.

[biomed_eng_2000]

I have nothing against the placebo effect...if I had cancer and I took placebo sugar pills AND got better, I would be just as happy as if I had taken "real" drugs and gotten better.

Because hearing is a psychoacoustic (ear->brain) phenomenon the bottom line is if you BELIEVE you have improved dynamics and soundstage, then in the very act of believing, makes it true (to you...and in fact that is the only person that matters, the listener).

[RobR]

I have nothing against the placebo effect...if I had cancer and I took placebo sugar pills AND got better, I would be just as happy as if I had taken "real" drugs and gotten better.

Because hearing is a psychoacoustic (ear->brain) phenomenon the bottom line is if you BELIEVE you have improved dynamics and soundstage, then in the very act of believing, makes it true (to you...and in fact that is the only person that matters, the listener).

Ugh, what nonsense. Let me guess, Coke & Pepsi taste the same to you, you really can't tell what the big deal is about HDTV and ultimately an MP3 is as good as any SACD recording. They're your senses, and if they're dull, well, no one can help you.

Not about the bling bling, the cables I mentioned aren't even dat purty or fancy at all. You want to make sure you're starting off with competent cables, these aren't even crazy cables I'm talking about, or even crazy cash. Also, 16" is Ok, but the thicker the cable the longer the run you can get away without the risk of loosing sound quality/depth/range... that's as far as science will take you...

Problem with trying to come up with some sort of scientific mumbo jumbo is that you can't equate/quantify, yada yada what sounds good from one set of ears to another. You can come up with some average from polling test listeners of what is good/bad, but ultimately that will just = ok, maybe good, but certainly not great. Because great will always be subjective per listener, per set of ears, per preference of warmth or brightness in sound... the average just doesn't offend.

So you went through the trouble of picking out your big components, speakers / receivers that you've tested out and you like what you hear, why screw it up at the last second cause you want to save fifty bucks. If you spent $200 on your receiver and not much more on your speakers, then ya, go ahead buy that home depot wire...

[biomed_eng_2000]

Coke tastes the same to me if it was in a $200 vs a $1 cup.

Pepsi tastes the same to me if it was in a $200 vs a $1 cup.

Coke and Pepsi taste different but it was not the cup that made the difference.

I'd rather drink Coke or Pepsi in the $200 cup...not because of the taste difference but because of the "experience" difference.

However, for those interested in speaker cables, please read http://home.austin.rr.com/tnulla/dunlavy6.htm

I have nothing new to add above John Dunlavy's comments. Not many are in his league.

[NHT]

boy...I knew I was opening up a can of worms by asking this question. But I just cant negate the fact that I myself, along with my wife, have heard difference in sonic nature when comparing different interconnects between my processor and amp. The difference was not not dramatic but it was enough to discern an opinion between which one I liked better. I know I was not a victim of the placebo effect because between 4 different brands of interconnects, I ended up keeping the second cheapest set. Each set had its own different characteristics.

So I adamantly have to differ with the naysayers. It is just too hard to swallow that with all the hundreds and thousands of different cable manufacturers out there, all of them sound the same. And its just hard to believe that the many hobbyist out there who have upgraded to better wires and interconnects have fallen victim to a mass placebo affect. Somethings gotta give. Does this mean that those who have used better cables are easily persuaded and are "suckers" per say, or are those who stand firm that there is no difference, so stubborn to "believe", that they are ultimately incorrigible?

Ive heard the difference with my own ears, and even so with my own eyes when comparing different component video cables. You can throw any scientific proof at me with all types of different charts and graphs as you want but theres gotta be a reason that manufacturers are making better and more expensive wires. If it were up to me, I would love to believe that all wires are the same. Because at the end, it would save me a heck of a lot more money. So I would love to hear more thoughts and opinions. Dare I ask what some have experienced with better power cords and powerstrips???
HEHE

[farbs]

GEEZ, next thing someone will be suggesting coat hanger wire :
I just have to add that I didd upgrade my speaker wire from no-name to QED silver aniversary and it did make difference. Subtle but there was a difference.
Placebo or not I am happy and think that's truely what matters!
This speaker wire thing I beleive truely is a can of worms.
All I can say is buy what you are happy with. :T

[biomed_eng_2000]

1. Introduction
Different interconnects and speaker cable CAN make up to a ~0.1dB difference which IS perceptable. Such a sonic difference is not worth it (to me) for systems that have gross room acoutic comb filtering distortions, such as an average listening room.

BUT, you can improve you system's frequency response by much more than 0.1dB with improved room acoustics for less than $300.

2. Actual measurements:
Take a look at the frequency response (Figure D3) at http://www.etfacoustic.com/demoroom.all.html

The blue curve is without absorbers (huge comb filtering effects)
The green line is with absorbers (comb filtering reduced)

The absorbers make a 3dB to 6dB (depending on frequency) improvement in frequency response. The response is MUCH smoother with the reduction of primary reflections.

3. Conclusion - Which to do?
0.1 dB improvement - cables (~$300)
3dB improvement - room acoustics (~$300)

Do BOTH, but personally I'd do the room acoustics first and then cables after that.

[sikoniko]

The problem with the room acoustics is that the average person can't just go out and install it unless you put it on every inch of your room and have it be effective. It really needs to be done by someone who know what they are doing to get the best use out of it.

With home theater, you spend roughly 60% of your money for the first 90% of your sound, and 40% on the last 10 percent.

[RobR]

This is a quote from the link biomed_eng_2000 provided,

http://home.austin.rr.com/tnulla/dunlavy6.ht

"So, where does all of this information lead us? Well, being devoted to engineering and science, I would probably decide in favor of cables that measured the best (in all measurable performance categories), so long as their price-points were comparable with those of other cables under consideration."

I think that best sums it up, and there isn't anything in his postings that contradict those of us who have been arguing for good cables & against bad ones. It actually supports our arguments at times and certainly slams those who fall for the ultra expensive hype-driven cables.

As biomed suggests, please enjoy the read...




By the way, Coke tastes best in a can, beer in a bottle, and wine in a glass.

But never, ever, drink OJ from a can.

[NHT]

"sigh"...okay. With all said and done, does anyone have any good speaker wires recommendation for my setup? ANyone with a SIMILAR setup that has a proven recipe? How do you feel about upgrading the powercords?

[Lex]

Mr. Biomed Engineer. I understand where you are coming from. It's the same old engineer's arguement from when time was time. But I would like to remind you that this forum is owned by me. I also own CAT Cables one of the forum sponsors here, so I will not sit back and let the engineering "way" be dictated over and over to the HTGuide faithful. Yes, you can present your arguments, but you will not be allowed to harp on a point over and over and over to the point of making members feel like they can't talk about CAT Cables making a difference. Let this serve as notice for the future, it's just not going to work at HTguide, you are going to have to peddle that static wire is wire enineering advice elsewhere. Do you understand me here? It is important that you do. Your welcome here, but not to "close people's minds" to the art of audio video.

Guys, we've been over this time and time again, the B & W forum is not about speaker wires or system components, it's a B & W speaker forum where wires are only to be casually mentioned while discussing speakers themselves.

This thread is locked now.