804d3 setup...which surrounds? with marantz recievers?

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  • prk504
    Junior Member
    • Jun 2017
    • 18

    804d3 setup...which surrounds? with marantz recievers?

    I'm considering buying a 5.1 system layer this year. I have in wall wiring and can't add or them.

    Fronts: 804d3 towers
    Center: htm2 d3
    Rears:?
    Sub: budget $1000
    Reciever: marantz sr6012? Sr7012?

    I'd love to get the 805d3 bookshelves for rears but they are not in my price range and I need to ceiling mount whatever rears I get.

    Also, I was thinking the 6012 or the 7012 by marabtz because they have 185watts and 200 watts per channel.

    I was considering the cm6s2 bookshelves for the rears, but they only take 120watts.

    1. Can I drive these speakers with these recievers? What about the max 120 watts for the bookshelves?

    2. Will the cm6s2 bookshelves sound OK as rears?

    3. Can I ceiling mount the cm6s2 bookshelves?

    I am trying stay within $15k totally without tax. Any recommendations would help a lot.

    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • TomScrut
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Nov 2013
    • 532

    #2
    The CM6s should be fine with the receiver, don't worry about the power ratings on speakers. What I do think though is you maybe ought to get a processor and power amp instead of a receiver. The speakers will not be done justice by an AVR I don't think.

    Sub wise you will struggle for $1000 I think as it will sound bad if it's not of similar quality to the 804s. You want to be looking at the level of the SVS ultras or JL subs I think, at least to make having the sub worthwhile. I have been through this myself, cheaping out on subs then not using them as they don't sound good enough with my mains. When the mains will reproduce the bass as a defined sound and the sub is just making thuds it's not very good.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

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    • prk504
      Junior Member
      • Jun 2017
      • 18

      #3
      Originally posted by TomScrut
      The CM6s should be fine with the receiver, don't worry about the power ratings on speakers. What I do think though is you maybe ought to get a processor and power amp instead of a receiver. The speakers will not be done justice by an AVR I don't think.

      Sub wise you will struggle for $1000 I think as it will sound bad if it's not of similar quality to the 804s. You want to be looking at the level of the SVS ultras or JL subs I think, at least to make having the sub worthwhile. I have been through this myself, cheaping out on subs then not using them as they don't sound good enough with my mains. When the mains will reproduce the bass as a defined sound and the sub is just making thuds it's not very good.

      Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
      Thanks for your response.


      Towers: 804d3...9k
      Center: htm2 d3...4k
      Rears: cm6s2....2k

      That's already 15k where I'm stretching to purchase the reciever / amp and a sub.

      Can I setup a system within 15k and still get the 804d3 towers with the matching center or what should I expect to spend?

      I currently have a marantz sr6010 with only 110watts per channel... I could add an amp to that for the front 3 speakers. Which amp would you recommend on a budget?

      I'm not clear how a separate amp is better power than a reciever rated to similar / higher wattage.

      Thanks for the help


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment

      • TomScrut
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Nov 2013
        • 532

        #4
        Originally posted by prk504
        Thanks for your response.


        Towers: 804d3...9k
        Center: htm2 d3...4k
        Rears: cm6s2....2k

        That's already 15k where I'm stretching to purchase the reciever / amp and a sub.

        Can I setup a system within 15k and still get the 804d3 towers with the matching center or what should I expect to spend?

        I currently have a marantz sr6010 with only 110watts per channel... I could add an amp to that for the front 3 speakers. Which amp would you recommend on a budget?

        I'm not clear how a separate amp is better power than a reciever rated to similar / higher wattage.

        Thanks for the help


        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
        The ability to drive speakers properly is more than just wattage, and normally the ratings on receivers are at high distortion levels IIRC or not all channels driven. Delivering power into a perfect load is not the same as powering speakers which have impedance variations and power/current phase differences where the amp may have to drive a high current at low signal level into a low impedance. Don't get me wrong, if you already own the receiver you could get the speakers and work from there rather than doing it all at once. It won't be unlistenable but you would possibly get better results with cheaper speakers and an upgraded amp. Like (as an example) getting 805s and then using the cost difference on an amp

        For value for money I would think ATI would be a good choice. Emotiva used to be but they don't do their big powerful amps anymore I don't think.

        Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
        Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

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        • prk504
          Junior Member
          • Jun 2017
          • 18

          #5
          Originally posted by TomScrut
          The ability to drive speakers properly is more than just wattage, and normally the ratings on receivers are at high distortion levels IIRC or not all channels driven. Delivering power into a perfect load is not the same as powering speakers which have impedance variations and power/current phase differences where the amp may have to drive a high current at low signal level into a low impedance. Don't get me wrong, if you already own the receiver you could get the speakers and work from there rather than doing it all at once. It won't be unlistenable but you would possibly get better results with cheaper speakers and an upgraded amp. Like (as an example) getting 805s and then using the cost difference on an amp

          For value for money I would think ATI would be a good choice. Emotiva used to be but they don't do their big powerful amps anymore I don't think.

          Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
          Thanks again for the help...I'm learning a lot here.

          how many watts per channel would you recommend from the 804d3 towers and the htm2 d3 center?

          And do you think keeping my old sr6010 as a pre amp for the front three speakers will suffice?


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • TomScrut
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Nov 2013
            • 532

            #6
            Originally posted by prk504
            Thanks again for the help...I'm learning a lot here.

            how many watts per channel would you recommend from the 804d3 towers and the htm2 d3 center?

            And do you think keeping my old sr6010 as a pre amp for the front three speakers will suffice?


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            I would ideally say 200w, but less would do if it is a high quality amp. For example, Naim make "low powered" (if you look at the specs) but they hardly ever struggle with 800 series even though they are known to be hard to drive (not so much with these new ones though).

            Yes it would do as a pre if it has pre outs but something like an 8802A or a 7703 would do a lot better job I'd imagine.

            Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
            Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

            Comment

            • prk504
              Junior Member
              • Jun 2017
              • 18

              #7
              Originally posted by TomScrut
              I would ideally say 200w, but less would do if it is a high quality amp. For example, Naim make "low powered" (if you look at the specs) but they hardly ever struggle with 800 series even though they are known to be hard to drive (not so much with these new ones though).

              Yes it would do as a pre if it has pre outs but something like an 8802A or a 7703 would do a lot better job I'd imagine.

              Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
              Based on your recommendations I've been looking at better amps...
              I see the 200x5 rotel rmb-1585 for about $3,000 but emotiva has a 250x5 xpa gen3 for $1600.

              What am I losing going with the emotiva?

              Thanks again.



              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • wkhanna
                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                • Jan 2006
                • 5673

                #8
                may want to investigate the Monolith line from Monoprice.......

                do not let the price or brand fool you......
                these are made by a reputable & respected mainstream, mid-level audio electronics manufacturer, (can not remember exactly witch at the moment) .....

                Kal was quite impressed with these when he auditioned them HERE.....& he has less tolerance for incompetence than i do, which is not meaning to say anything disparaging towards Kal.
                he is simply V discriminating......& has heard more amps than even the most ardent of us will in three lifetimes....

                otherwise, Odyssey
                _


                Bill

                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                FinleyAudio

                Comment

                • prk504
                  Junior Member
                  • Jun 2017
                  • 18

                  #9
                  804d3 setup...which surrounds? with marantz recievers?

                  Originally posted by wkhanna
                  may want to investigate the Monolith line from Monoprice.......

                  do not let the price or brand fool you......
                  these are made by a reputable & respected mainstream, mid-level audio electronics manufacturer, (can not remember exactly witch at the moment) .....

                  Kal was quite impressed with these when he auditioned them HERE.....& he has less tolerance for incompetence than i do, which is not meaning to say anything disparaging towards Kal.
                  he is simply V discriminating......& has heard more amps than even the most ardent of us will in three lifetimes....

                  otherwise, Odyssey
                  The dealer is pushing Rotel but from what I'm reading monoprice, ati, and emotiva are all good options...and Odyssey I need to research.

                  Any thoughts on the emotiva?

                  Is there a real difference in the sound quality of these amps if I'm not going to listen to reference levels most of the time?

                  Would yall recommend a marantz pre or something else?

                  I like the iPhone control and all the home theater features including Odyssey on my current marabtz avr.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • bigburner
                    Super Senior Member
                    • May 2005
                    • 2649

                    #10
                    Here is a review of the Emotiva XPA-5 written by the aforementioned Kal (Kalman Rubinson).

                    Nigel.

                    Comment

                    • prk504
                      Junior Member
                      • Jun 2017
                      • 18

                      #11
                      Thanks guys. Seems like Kalman reviews most of these amps. It's grew to see these reviews from one source.


                      Any recommendations on which pre to look into?


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                      Comment

                      • Alaric
                        Ultra Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 4143

                        #12
                        do not let the price or brand fool you......
                        these are made by a reputable & respected mainstream, mid-level audio electronics manufacturer, (can not remember exactly witch at the moment) .....
                        Wasn't it ATI? They make the guts of some amps with surprising names. Sid Linkwitz has no problem using ATI with his very good designs.
                        Lee

                        Marantz PM7200-RIP
                        Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                        Schiit Modi 3
                        Marantz CD5005
                        Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                        Comment

                        • prk504
                          Junior Member
                          • Jun 2017
                          • 18

                          #13
                          804d3 setup...which surrounds? with marantz recievers?

                          Guys...
                          I went to the magnolia av store at bestbuy and heard potential rear speakers to match the diamond fronts.


                          We spent a while there and the cm10 towers sound like the 804d3 with a muffled signature...then of course the 802d3 sounds similar to the 804d3 but much smoother and silkier... but that's way outside our price range.

                          The lightest bookshelf that came close to matching the d3 towers and center is the cm6s2. All the 6 series and in ceiling speakers sounded bad compared to the 804d3 towers.

                          I can't find anything online on how to mount any cm speakers on the ceiling.

                          Any ideas? Or any recommendations on another speaker that would match the 804d3 and htm2 d3 center?


                          Worst case I was thinking abut getting an Omni mount style bracket and drilling into the speaker.

                          Thanks again.
                          Any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated!

                          Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                          Comment

                          • TomScrut
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Nov 2013
                            • 532

                            #14
                            Unfortunately you have the problem of not being able to afford what you want!

                            If you can find anywhere that stocks them try the CT700 range. I ran CT7.3s as my centre and rears with my 802D2 and thought they worked well but these are more expensive than the CMs they do smaller ones in the same range.

                            Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
                            Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

                            Comment

                            • prk504
                              Junior Member
                              • Jun 2017
                              • 18

                              #15
                              Originally posted by TomScrut
                              Unfortunately you have the problem of not being able to afford what you want!

                              If you can find anywhere that stocks them try the CT700 range. I ran CT7.3s as my centre and rears with my 802D2 and thought they worked well but these are more expensive than the CMs they do smaller ones in the same range.

                              Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
                              Hi Tom
                              I'd probably spend the extra if I found something that works. I took a look at the 7.4 and it's a 34lb monster. I'm trying to put these in my living room so I'm hoping for something that will be smaller like the cm6s2 size [emoji3].

                              What do you think about getting an panavise mount like this on below and drilling into the back of the speaker without penetrating the cabinet all the way through?

                              The other option is to get a universal projector mount like the one below and mount the cm6s2 upside down, but I'm nervous how strong the threaded inserts are on the bottom meant for the pedestal stands.

                              What do you think?

                              Thanks

                              Universal projector mount which holds 55lbs to mount cm6s2 upside down.


                              Panavise 120240B mount which holds 40lbs



                              Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                              Comment

                              • TomScrut
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Nov 2013
                                • 532

                                #16
                                Originally posted by prk504
                                Hi Tom
                                I'd probably spend the extra if I found something that works. I took a look at the 7.4 and it's a 34lb monster. I'm trying to put these in my living room so I'm hoping for something that will be smaller like the cm6s2 size [emoji3].

                                What do you think about getting an panavise mount like this on below and drilling into the back of the speaker without penetrating the cabinet all the way through?

                                The other option is to get a universal projector mount like the one below and mount the cm6s2 upside down, but I'm nervous how strong the threaded inserts are on the bottom meant for the pedestal stands.

                                What do you think?

                                Thanks

                                Universal projector mount which holds 55lbs to mount cm6s2 upside down.


                                Panavise 120240B mount which holds 40lbs



                                Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                                I wouldn't do that, I like to have my stuff in as good a condition as possible for best resale value. The CT700 series have brackets for wall mounting anyway hence why I suggested them.

                                Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
                                Music: Intel NUC -> Antelope Zodiac Platinum -> Classe CA-2300 -> B&W 802 Diamonds & 2x SVS SB13U

                                Comment

                                • prk504
                                  Junior Member
                                  • Jun 2017
                                  • 18

                                  #17
                                  804d3 setup...which surrounds? with marantz recievers?

                                  To update you all and for everyone's information I found a wall mount that will hold the cm6s2 or any heavy bookshelf pretty much. I couldn't find a ceiling mount that would work.

                                  Hold Up Display hd33. They can do custom colors and it's designed for heavy loads.



                                  This bracket will let you wall mount heavy bookshelf speakers and tilt it down past the 10-20 degrees typical of other mounts...but there is no rotation.


                                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                                  Comment

                                  • prk504
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Jun 2017
                                    • 18

                                    #18
                                    Wall mounted b&w cm6s2 with hold up display hd33





                                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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