B&W CM9 S2 speakers

[RoMan]

Hi all,

I'm upgrading from Def Tech BP 7002, CLR 3000, BP10Bs(rear surround) and SM 450's LBC and RBC. My apartment living room is 13 ft wide by 14 ft long with 8ft stucco ceilings. I originally was going to go with the CM10 S2's as my front speakers but decided to go with CM9 S2's for the fronts. I'm looking for some thoughts or comments with anyone who owns the CM9 S2's in a home theatre setup as well as 2 channel. I understand the CM8 S2's, 9 s2's and 10 s2's would all sound great in this size room however my dealer felt I wouldnt get the best out of the CM10's in that size room and suggested the CM9 S2's make more sense. Also my budget cannot really go to the CM10's.
Any owners of the CM series please do chime in and share your thoughts, comments, setup advice etc. Although I would love to get the 800 series I will wait for quite awhile yet. I will be purchasing the CM Centre 2 S2 as part of the package. Surrounds will come later. Any recommendations for surround speakers? I use Auralex subdudes as well and would most likely place the CM9 S2's on them as well.

Anyways, thanks as always as I am a first time B&W buyer. I'm sure I will get much enjoyment out of these as I run an all Rotel setup as well.


RoMan.

[TomScrut]

I would say 'getting the most' out of the CM10 depends on if you are going to be using any EQ or not. Yes you have another bass driver but the CM10 has a superior mid-range and the tweeter on top. It's not just a case of better bass. So if the bass is a concern then if you are using them in a HT set up with room EQ it should be sorted by that anyway. I have 802s in a room that size with a pair of subs, but I use Dirac live to sort the room modes out. No I don't make the most of the 802s but because they are technically better beyond the bass (compared to the 803 and 804D2) I still get a better sound. But I can see the dealers point if you are talking about not doing any EQ, especially if you have limitations with positioning. People go on about important the room is, and it is very important, but there is also an aspect of making the most of what you have. If you can't change your room then you may as well still have the best speakers you can get away with in there. Obviously you may be better off spending the price difference on treating your room but that isn't always an option depending on your marital status and the room itself.

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[RoMan]

Thanks TomScrut for your insights. What makes the tweeter on top superior to the tweeter built into the speaker? I run a an SVS SB-13 Ultra sub and it does fill this room with plenty of deep bass for movies. What is your thoughts on the CM9 S2's? I don't have any plans on moving just yet to a bigger space but I can see your point on getting the best speaker regardless of room size in favour of getting the best sound. I did hear the CM9 S2's in a demo in a dedicated home theatre room that was bigger than the space I would use them in and they filled the room quite well. Even had the same gear hooked up to them that I use as well. Although I do have an EQ on my RSP 1572 I understand its best to have it professionally setup so that it will make the most of the room acoustics. That's not in my plans to use it right now. Thanks again for your insights.

[RoMan]

On the CM10 S2's. In a room with the dimensions I mentioned earlier would it be overkill on the bass as well? I guess it would depend a lot on the type of music I play as well. Mostly hard rock, metal, some country, pop, blues, classic rock. I may have to go and get a listen to these ones too and really get a sense of the differences.

[TomScrut]

The tweeter on top should improve imaging, and the FST driver on the CM10 is the suspended type (so no basket) like used on the 800 series. I have not heard the CM9 or 10 but they don't add the features to the 10 for nothing. I have two SB13Us with 802s, but I have them in a stereo 2.2 setup. If you are using an AV processor then you can cross the CM10s over at say 60hz and they won't be too different bass wise to the CM9s

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[TomScrut]

Also the EQ is probably only a parametric EQ which aren't too hard to set up and probably worth your while looking at regardless of what you buy.

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[RoMan]

Hi TomScrut. You are slowly getting me to re-think this situation again..haha..thank you for that because I it seems my gut is telling me too that the CM10's would be the way to go..haha. I'm going to my dealers this weekend and have a listen to the CM10's. Guess I was a bit concerned about the extra bass driver being a bit too much bass cause I use AQ Gibraltar speaker cables for my Def Techs. I just got them used and I must say they are a nice speaker cable. Bass is even better than the AQ Type 4 cables I was using and sound is more fuller. The highs are airy and laid back and they have a better midrange and excellent bass. I have the 36v dbs version but will upgrade to the 72v dbs soon. I use the Bypass feature when listening to 2 channel music on my RSP 1572 through my DAC. But I see your point in setting the crossover to 60 Hz. Does this affect the Bypass mode as well? As for the Parametric EQ that is what it is but I wouldn't mind having someone who has the right equipment to do the measurements of my room and set the parametric eq once and forget it. :-)

RoMan

[TomScrut]

Bypass mode will not use the crossover values.

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[RoMan]

Ok thanks TomScrut. In stereo mode I suppose the crossover will work. I'm using the RDD 1580 DAC for 2 channel music thats why I use bypass mode. I could try it in stereo mode with my sub on I suppose and see what happens. My sub is located behind my couch a foot and a half away from the corner.

[TomScrut]

Can you not get a home demo?

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[RoMan]

No unfortunately I won't be able too get a home demo. Dealer is quite a distance away. Since I bought my other gear from them they have the exact same gear hooked up to it. Best I can do for a home demo.

[TomScrut]

No unfortunately I won't be able too get a home demo. Dealer is quite a distance away. Since I bought my other gear from them they have the exact same gear hooked up to it. Best I can do for a home demo.

Is that because you don't want to drive there to pick them up or that they won't let you? If it's the latter I think you need another dealer. The price CM10s are one would expect a home demo if one was wanted. That is the only way you can truly find out if you are going to be OK with them.

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[RoMan]

Hi TomScrut..I don't have a vehicle for starters..haha..I never bothered to ask him for a home demo. I can see what their return policy is in the event I don't like them. I know what you mean in terms getting a home demo to see how they would truly sound in my environment. It would be nice but as probable as this is I'm not sure its practical just due to logistics, distance etc. They would have to deliver the speakers to my place first off and I'm not sure this would be practical for them just for demonstration purposes.

Thanks for your comments regarding this as well. I did hear the CM9's there too and it filled up the room so I shall see today what the CM10's sound like in their home theatre room. I'm sure its gonna sound a lot better but I figured to be fair I should at least get a listen to them and see what I think of them and make an informed decision. Again my gut is telling me this may be the way to go..haha..stay tuned.

RoMan

[RoMan]

An update. Well after listening to the CM10 S2's today I took the plunge and purchased these today along with the CMC2 S2 centre channel. I found that the midrange was superb, and the tweeter did have a really nice airiness that provided crisp highs and the extra bass driver does help as well. Movies and music were brought up to another level. Thanks TomScrut for all your responses and comments it was much appreciated. As I said in an earlier post that I needed to give these a listen as well and make an informed decision once I heard them. I was very pleased with the sound and the aesthetics as well of these speakers. Solid looking as well. So long to Definitive Tech as they served me well for many years but now its time to step up to a completely other level with these B&W's. Welcome CM10 S2's and CMC2 S2. Any suggestions on surround speakers? Maybe CM1 S2's for the surrounds and centre back left and right to make a 7.1 setup?

RoMan

[RoMan]

Quick update. Received my CM10 S2's and CMC2 S2 yesterday. These speakers are just fabulous in sound quality for music and really solid on movies as well. Superb highs, midrange and excellent bass. They are less than 12 hours old and I'm thoroughly impressed at how these sound right out of the box. I have the mains bi-wired and the centre will follow soon. I hear it takes usually 150 hours to fully break them in so I can't imagine what these will sound like when they are fully broken in. Audio heaven I'm sure. Although I had my sights on the CM9 S2's, I don't regret my choice purchasing the CM10 S2's. A worthy investment till the next upgrade..haha.

Next is my surround speakers from B&W. I was wondering if the forum would have any suggestions to surround speakers. Anyone here use DS3 surround speakers? If so, would you be able to share your experience. Is it a good timbre match with the CM series? I was informed to get the best surrounds I can afford. So I am contemplating a pair of CM8 S2's and go full range in the back as well and get a pair of CM1 S2's for Centre back left and Centre Back right to complete a 7.1 setup.

RoMan

[hockey_101]

I hear it takes usually 150 hours to fully break them in so I can't imagine what these will sound like when they are fully broken in. Audio heaven I'm sure. .

RoMan

I hear that there is no break in period and the speaker should sound the same the day it was purchased. A break in period is something made up so dealers can get their customers to demo an item past their 30 day return.

[hockey_101]

Also, I hear that Bose is pretty good, probably better than your CM10's. I'd return the CM10's before it's too late!

[RoMan]

Hi hockey_101.

True they do sound excellent right out of the box. As for returning them, I'm happy with these speakers and have no intention of returning them.

RoMan

[wkhanna]

speakers are mechanical systems, and as such, due to friction & the relaxation of materials such as the driver surrounds, can change somewhat over a period of time.

[BWLover]

Some say 300 hours even. Leave them running 24/7 for 12.5 days. Still within the 30 day return 😋😋😋


Bowers & Wilkins 683S1 Speakers
Rotel RB-1090 2 Channel Amp
Rotel RC-1082 Stereo Pre Amp
Rotel RCD-1072 CD Player
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon w/ Ortofon 2M Red (sitting on a piece of slate supported by 3 "solid tech feet of silence" isolation feet)
Rotel RLC-1040 Power Conditioner
Shynyata Research SR-Z1 Power Outlet & Venom 3 Power Cords x 4
Tara Labs RSC Vector 1 Speaker Cables & Interconnects
Primacoustic Room Treatments

[RoMan]

Wkhanna- so one shouldn't expect the sound to change drastically from them playing straight outta the box? That's what I'm gathering from your comment. These sound great anyways so no worries there. :-)

BWLover- haha..yeah and put some fans blowing in my cabinet to keep my amp and preamp cool as well in order to get them broken in before the return date..haha..I bought them from a cool audio store not Bestbuy as they don't sell them here in Canada..oddly enough but I guess understandable for now..haha..

But seriously, is it better to play all three speakers so they get the same break in time. The CMC2 S2 is hooked up full range whilst the mains are bi-wired. When I first calibrated my speakers my centre came in to the lowest setting to get at 75db and I found that odd. The next day I re-calibrated and the centre came in at -6db. The mains are 5db and 4db higher than the centre channel. My Centre channel is placed in my Salamander cabinet underneath my lcd tv. Any thoughts on this one? Is it my placement? I didn't seem to hear a lot of high frequency or it was extremely low in PLIIM and Dolby 3 channel Stereo mode. The mains are fine and work to a charm. Not sure if I should return as it at this point. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

RoMan

[wkhanna]

Wkhanna- so one shouldn't expect the sound to change drastically from them playing straight outta the box?

in general, any changes will be minor but still noticeable.
and, as Mark Twain said, "All generalizations are false, including this one".

what i am saying is, do not concern yourself with such worries
plug them in & let them make music
after 300 hours they will never sound better, or worse

When I first calibrated my speakers my centre came in to the lowest setting to get at 75db and I found that odd. The next day I re-calibrated and the centre came in at -6db. The mains are 5db and 4db higher than the centre channel. My Centre channel is placed in my Salamander cabinet underneath my lcd tv. Any thoughts on this one? Is it my placement?

what are you using to make your measurements?
are all the speakers being powered with equivalent amps?
your center placement will have an effect, you could try moving it if only to see if you get a significant change.

[BWLover]

Wkhanna- so one shouldn't expect the sound to change drastically from them playing straight outta the box? That's what I'm gathering from your comment. These sound great anyways so no worries there. :-)

BWLover- haha..yeah and put some fans blowing in my cabinet to keep my amp and preamp cool as well in order to get them broken in before the return date..haha..I bought them from a cool audio store not Bestbuy as they don't sell them here in Canada..oddly enough but I guess understandable for now..haha..

But seriously, is it better to play all three speakers so they get the same break in time. The CMC2 S2 is hooked up full range whilst the mains are bi-wired. When I first calibrated my speakers my centre came in to the lowest setting to get at 75db and I found that odd. The next day I re-calibrated and the centre came in at -6db. The mains are 5db and 4db higher than the centre channel. My Centre channel is placed in my Salamander cabinet underneath my lcd tv. Any thoughts on this one? Is it my placement? I didn't seem to hear a lot of high frequency or it was extremely low in PLIIM and Dolby 3 channel Stereo mode. The mains are fine and work to a charm. Not sure if I should return as it at this point. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

RoMan

What amp are you using that you would need to use a fan to keep it cool?


Bowers & Wilkins 683S1 Speakers
Rotel RB-1090 2 Channel Amp
Rotel RC-1082 Stereo Pre Amp
Rotel RCD-1072 CD Player
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon w/ Ortofon 2M Red (sitting on a piece of slate supported by 3 "solid tech feet of silence" isolation feet)
Rotel RLC-1040 Power Conditioner
Shynyata Research SR-Z1 Power Outlet & Venom 3 Power Cords x 4
Tara Labs RSC Vector 1 Speaker Cables & Interconnects
Primacoustic Room Treatments

[RoMan]

wkhanna..my 20 year old Radioshack SPL meter finally died and all I had left to use was my SPL app on my iPhone so that is what I'm using to take measurements. Yup all my amps are running 250 watts per channel Class D. My centre channel is on the edge of my cabinet. I understand that is the ideal place to have the centre channel I was informed.

BWLover- I was just making a reference to your post on leaving it on 24/7 which is equivalent to 12.5 days..haha..so I responded with a humorous response with putting a fan there to keep the gear cool as I would think it would get pretty pretty warm wouldnt you say so? Anyways, will tweak some more and see what happens. This is the fun of getting B&W speakers. Believe me, these are truly nice sounding speakers and possibly it could be that my centre just takes a little longer to break in.

RoMan

[wkhanna]

wkhanna..my 20 year old Radioshack SPL meter finally died and all I had left to use was my SPL app on my iPhone so that is what I'm using to take measurements.

i have found thru experience that all SPL phone apps are not created equal.
do not rely too heavily on one until you can compare its accuracy to one of known accuracy.

[RoMan]

wkhanna- do you know or can recommend an SPL meter that I can purchase for a reasonable price?

[wkhanna]

i still rely on my old radio shack SPL meter.

maybe try ebay?

note that there exists a correction factor chart for this meter to deal with offset in the lower frequency range.

[RoMan]

Thanks wkhanna. I'll look around and see what I can find on ebay and other places. Thanks for the tip on the correction factor. Will keep that in mind should I find another Radioshack SPL classic meter..haha..thanks again wkhanna.

RoMan

[kcsun]

A friend of mine has just ordered the CM9's and CM2S2 centre, DS3's and the ASW10 CMS2 sub. This setup will be installed in a 7x4m room. He was advised as he was mainly wanting films to have the CM9's rather than 10's also then all three speakers have the integral tweeter. The DS3's are perfectly adequate for surround as he cannot install "in-walls" although some atmos "in-ceilings" may be added later.
The only caveat to the use of the DS3's as surround is if you intend to play a lot of SACD's in which case the surround L&R should be upgraded possibly to CM8's whilst still keeping the DS3's for surround backs
My friend is running it all through a new Arcam AVR850 using Dirac
He is on a six week countdown, he is stressing already so what he will be like for the unveiling..................

kc

[RoMan]

A friend of mine has just ordered the CM9's and CM2S2 centre, DS3's and the ASW10 CMS2 sub. This setup will be installed in a 7x4m room. He was advised as he was mainly wanting films to have the CM9's rather than 10's also then all three speakers have the integral tweeter. The DS3's are perfectly adequate for surround as he cannot install "in-walls" although some atmos "in-ceilings" may be added later.
The only caveat to the use of the DS3's as surround is if you intend to play a lot of SACD's in which case the surround L&R should be upgraded possibly to CM8's whilst still keeping the DS3's for surround backs
My friend is running it all through a new Arcam AVR850 using Dirac
He is on a six week countdown, he is stressing already so what he will be like for the unveiling..................

kc

Hi kcsun..thanks for the information. After much thought myself I have decided to go with CM8 S2's for surround duty. I did consider the DS3's for a period of time but I don't think for my setup and room acoustics they may be ideal. My living room has 3 walls and is open to the dining area so I don't think I could get the maximum use out them. CM8 S2's more or less would suffice as I wouldnt need to buy speaker stands and they have a small footprint which will fit perfectly in my 13ft wide X 14ft long room. They should sound very nice with my CM10 S2's and CMC2 S2. I hope your friend enjoys his B&W's as well. These are very revealing speakers for movie and music. Detailed and accurate. If the soundtrack was recorded poorly you will hear it but if the soundtrack was done properly you will also hear the difference. Music is excellent as well. I hear its system dependent as well and I am running these off a Rotel amps.The CMC2 S2 requires some listening and adjusting but in the end is a very well designed speaker. Cheers.


RoMan
:T

[RoMan]

Update folks..after much much much thought and doing some measuring in the back of my home theatre I found the CM8 S2's are not tall enough to have a clear line of sound as the woofer will hit my couch so I feel will lose some surround ambience and it wouldnt be a pleasant listening experience for me. Because of this I will be moving towards purchasing the CM6 S2 bookshelf speakers for surround duties. I can get 28 inch speaker stands and they will clear my couch no problem. Also, aesthetically they will match my CM10 S2 speakers as well which is a nice bonus. I know its a bit overkill but I think it will be a perfect match all around and my sub is behind my couch so it will help as well.

Does anyone in the forum have this particular type of setup? If so, can you share any setup tips, information, comments on this type of setup? How does multichannel music sound with this setup? Would I be missing much not using the CM8 S2's? I listen to music and movies 50/50 and listen to DVD-Audio and SACD once in awhile. Thanks in advance everyone.

RoMan

[RoMan]

Anybody have the CM6 S2's used as surround speakers? Is the FS-CM S2 stand adequate for use with this speaker as opposed to using the MR-28 from Target Audio? I read you can screw down the CM6 S2's on the B&W stand as well. Is the Target Audio Stand just as reliable in stability? I'm hoping someone can assist me with these questions. It helps me in making an informed decision as well hearing from B&W customers who are knowledgeable with this brand. Thanks in advance.

RoMan

[RoMan]

No responses? Perhaps I should've started a new thread. Can anyone comment on this type of setup? I also am wondering if its true that surround speakers require the tweeters to be 2-3 feet above ear level as well? If so, then the B&W stands would not work cause they are 22 inches in height and the the Target Audio stands are a maximum of 28 inches for that matter? Anyone here also have their surrounds on 22-28 inch stands? If so, how do you find the surround when watching movies? Is it better to have the tweeters at ear level or above ear level? Is it required to be above ear level or is ear level fine as well and they cannot be localized? Thanks all.


RoMan

[wkhanna]

HT is not my forte', however, i am sure we have members with experiance concerning monitor stands, & there must be links/guides to HT set-up in our archives.

have you tried a search here regarding placement & set-up?

anyone with experience, advice or links to reference material is encouraged to contribute.

[RoMan]

Thanks wkhanna. Guess cause its a B&W forum it would be easier just to ask the questions and get the answers. I know maybe this is an old thread thats why I figured maybe a new thread may get some feedback. Anyways, thanks for chiming in and I will look up your suggestions as well.

RoMan

[RoMan]

Hi all,

I've made a final decision. I will be going with the CM6 S2's and the B&W FS-CM S2 speaker stands. I feel that the height will be adequate plus I get wire management and I like the fact I can secure the speakers to the stands by screwing these in to the bottom. I may sacrifice a bit of height but it should do the job. They will be an inch shorter than my CM10 S2's but I think I will be happy and pleased. All matching 5.1 system except for the sub which is an SVS sub. Woofer size is the same and the tweeter on top matches the fronts so I am satisfied and comfortable with this decision. Too bad I wasn't able to get any feedback but C'est la vie. I'm looking forward to my surround setup. Let the good times roll. :-)

RoMan

[wkhanna]

sounds good,

& will sound good, i am sure.
please do keep us posted.

[RoMan]

Thanks wkhanna. I am getting excited for sure. :-).

RoMan.