NEW B&W series 2015 ?

[Gasoil]

Hi,

Any idea if B&W will launch a new 800 series 2015 ?
In 2005 , they presented the D series, in 2010 the Diamond series , so in 2015 ????
If so what could they possibly improve ?

[TomScrut]

The D series was about 7 years after nautilus though! But it is next in line. I think an active option with external xovers would be good

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[Greg Gale]

My B&W dealer that I have known for 30 plus years told me there will be a new 800 series in 2015 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of B&W. He told me the 800/802 for example will be radically different than what it is today and substantially more expensive (whatever that means).

I asked him if B&W is moving away from the iconic Marlan head with yellow Kevlar FST midrange and he was not sure but when I think of B&W that is the image I have in my mind. They have done an excellent job marketing this look.

[kobestonecold]

NO NO NO. Don't released anymore. Still love my 804D. How can i afford the new one?

[TomScrut]

My B&W dealer that I have known for 30 plus years told me there will be a new 800 series in 2015 to celebrate the 50th anniversary of B&W. He told me the 800/802 for example will be radically different than what it is today and substantially more expensive (whatever that means).

I asked him if B&W is moving away from the iconic Marlan head with yellow Kevlar FST midrange and he was not sure but when I think of B&W that is the image I have in my mind. They have done an excellent job marketing this look.

Yeah I thought that there may be an anniversary speaker, (like the signature diamond was last time) but I wasn't sure if 2015 or 2016 was the anniversary. I think they ought to replace the Nautilus as it is a bit dated as the top model. I do think a lot of what dealers say is speculation as dealers I have spoken to say they don't know but they think if you see what I mean.

I won't be able to afford the new models anyway so I aren't too bothered unless there is a smaller model that will sound better than the 802 Diamond

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[leo2498]

B&W was founded in 1966 so we have at least one more year

[kobestonecold]

so you guys just gonna sell the the Diamond series set then get the newer diamond? NO NO NO

[dan87951]

My dealer was speaking to their rep who said sales were down across the range and was asking for input from dealers on why. In my opinion, the Best Buy contract has hurt Bowers & Wilkins image and in this business image is just as important as the product. 2. Internet sales, looks like lots of dealers or entrepreneurs are using their dealer discount to sale online (against policy). 3. Price on 800 series has out paced their customer base. Anyone remember when 802's were 8k a pair? They should it wasn't that long ago. If B&W is releasing a new line I would be very careful about any new price increases if I were them...

[Patrick Butler]

Hi Dan87951,

Business is actually up this year with independent dealers and Magnolia stores. Perhaps the dealer you referenced was the one who is not having a great year (it happens.)

Regarding 800 Series, every time a new range is introduced it surpasses the previous series in sales. 802N (Nautilus) was $8000 in 2005 (yes, that long ago.) It was double the price of the model it replaced and sales went up. Price is only a concern if you're not delivering a product with real performance and value.

Best regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

[lastexit]

Price on 800 series has out paced their customer base. Anyone remember when 802's were 8k a pair? They should it wasn't that long ago. If B&W is releasing a new line I would be very careful about any new price increases if I were them...

Agreed. I think the 805s was $2k back in 2008 when I was auditioning speakers. The replacement model jumped to $5k which was beyond my limit.

[Greg Gale]

Hi Dan87951,

Business is actually up this year with independent dealers and Magnolia stores. Perhaps the dealer you referenced was the one who is not having a great year (it happens.)

Regarding 800 Series, every time a new range is introduced it surpasses the previous series in sales. 802N (Nautilus) was $8000 in 2005 (yes, that long ago.) It was double the price of the model it replaced and sales went up. Price is only a concern if you're not delivering a product with real performance and value.

Best regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Patrick any word if a new 800 series will be introduced some time in 2015?

[Patrick Butler]

Hi Greg,

No word.

Happy Holidays!

Patrick

Patrick any word if a new 800 series will be introduced some time in 2015?

[5th element]

Do keep in mind that the diamond tweeter itself is very expensive. Buying a replacement part costs around $1300 vs the 805S replacement for $160. We're talking at least $2000 extra just in the diamond tweeters. If the 805S were $2000, a price hike to around $5000 makes perfect sense.

[TomScrut]

Do keep in mind that the diamond tweeter itself is very expensive. Buying a replacement part costs around $1300 vs the 805S replacement for $160. We're talking at least $2000 extra just in the diamond tweeters. If the 805S were $2000, a price hike to around $5000 makes perfect sense.

Yeah I don't see why people have such a beef with this. The 800 802 and 803D were a lot more expensive than their Nautilus counterparts. The 803D was significantly more expensive than the 803S. So when they slapped a diamond tweeter in the 804 and 805 why was it a surprise that they hiked the price?

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[dan87951]

Yeah I don't see why people have such a beef with this. The 800 802 and 803D were a lot more expensive than their Nautilus counterparts. The 803D was significantly more expensive than the 803S. So when they slapped a diamond tweeter in the 804 and 805 why was it a surprise that they hiked the price?

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Or they wanted to increase their bottom line... They're in business to make a profit after all.

[TomScrut]

Or they wanted to increase their bottom line... They're in business to make a profit after all.

Yeah and that, which I aren't surprised by either. No point in giving them away. But it was more the hike the aluminium tweeter versions got when going to diamond and people bemoaning that I was getting at. They generally chuck a bit more onto the price when they bring out a new range

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[Patrick Butler]

Products get more expensive over time for a variety of reasons. Here are a few.

1. Inflationary- Labor and materials tend to get more expensive over time. What cost you $100 to make something 5 years ago is very likely to cost more today. A new product is your opportunity to get ahead of inflation (but not for long.) That being said, you better hope the new product is significantly better than the old one.
2. Research & Development- Figuring out how to improve products necessarily entails hiring smart people who can do fundamental research and use what they learn to engineer solutions. This is expensive. We have over 20 of these very bright people in our Steyning R&D facility.
3. Technological improvements- While some technological solutions are relatively inexpensive to produce (i.e.- a Nautilus Tapering tube on a CM9S2 tweeter) other solutions are more expensive (i.e.- Diamond Tweeters.) Although I'm not an expert, I'll take an educated guess that many of the inexpensive technological improvements hiding under stones have already been found.
4. Tooling- Whenever you develop a new product, a new tool is required to produce parts. The more changes you make, the more tools you need. These tools are expensive. I recall a tool for one driver cone used by a manufacturer I know costs $80K. The tool has a finite lifespan and can (and will) break.

All of these things contribute to the cost of a product. There are ways that you can hold down the retail price of a cabinet. Using more expensive parts or construction techniques that don't convey are real benefit would be an area where you can control cost. For example, we could make an 802 Diamond's cabinet out of aircraft aluminum. While this would hugely increase the cost of each cabinet (think $35K versus $15k a pair), bending our cabinets and using matrix bracing results in a cabinet which is just as quiet but MUCH less expensive to manufacture. Another area where you can control cost is in manufacturing most everything yourself. This assumes that you run a tight ship (we use LEAN manufacturing techniques.) If you run sloppy operation, any savings are quickly eaten up by inefficiencies. That being the case, you'd be better off buying finished parts from suppliers who run a tighter ship.

Best wishes,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

[TomScrut]

Products get more expensive over time for a variety of reasons. Here are a few.
2. Research & Development- Figuring out how to improve products necessarily entails hiring smart people who can do fundamental research and use what they learn to engineer solutions. This is expensive. We have over 20 of these very bright people in our Steyning R&D facility.

Would be my dream job!

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[wkhanna]

Agreed, I would love few things more than being the guy building the cabinets & chassis.

[TomScrut]

Agreed, I would love few things more than being the guy building the cabinets & chassis.

Design is more my thing. I am a design engineer who designs buses but I aren't a bus spotter!

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[mglimabr]

Double priced! That's why!

[lastexit]

Double priced! That's why!

Wish to elaborate on this statement?

[TomScrut]

Wish to elaborate on this statement?

I presume the point was that the 805 Diamond was twice the price of the 805S. Who cares if the diamond tweeters cost loads to make and they massively improved the crossovers using expensive components?

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[gerardhn]

Hi,

Heard from my local dealer following rumors.
End of this year new models.
Prices + 25 %.
803 gets head.

True , not true. ? Who says?

[RedWolf]

I hope the rumors are true. I am ready for new speakers and don't want anything that is nearing end of cycle.
If the number of preowned listing are any indication I expect it will be very soon.
Call me crazy but I will be first in line if they offer them in white.

[TomScrut]

Hi,

Heard from my local dealer following rumors.
End of this year new models.
Prices + 25 %.
803 gets head.

True , not true. ? Who says?

Headed 803 will be interesting if it happens. Would maybe be able to swap my 802s for them if they are more suitable for my room. The head makes so much difference I couldn't buy 803s even if they are more practical.

[Rod#S]

If true and if the marlan head is the same size as the existing ones I think it would look foolish on a 803 because the cabinet isn't large enough.

[Kal Rubinson]

If true and if the marlan head is the same size as the existing ones I think it would look foolish on a 803 because the cabinet isn't large enough.

Ya think so?

[Rod#S]

That's about how it would look

[windshear]

Lets not get a"head" of ourselves.

[Freddie40]

ya think so?

rotflmao

[TomScrut]

If true and if the marlan head is the same size as the existing ones I think it would look foolish on a 803 because the cabinet isn't large enough.

Yeah I would suspect if it was true there would be a smaller head. Possibly a CM8 or CMC2 sized FST?

[luisev]

I'm new here as I'm thinking about replacing my 16+ year old 804M and HTM with either the CM10s or 804Ds. Curious though if the rumors are somewhat true and a new 800 line is on the horizon. I'm not in any rush as my 804Ms have treated me great thus far, but curious how true the rumors are.

[SoundEngine355]

All signs are point to a new 800 series lineup within 3-6 months. From memory they announced the "Diamond" series around the time of CES which is January.

I am in the market too and trying to decide if I should buy now or wait.

[Freddie40]

All signs are point to a new 800 series lineup within 3-6 months. From memory they announced the "Diamond" series around the time of CES which is January.

I am in the market too and trying to decide if I should buy now or wait.

Yes, they announced the current series in Jan 2010.

Dave

[TomScrut]

Over here in the UK, all the dealers have their stock for sale ex demo. I did also hear a rumour there is limited availability of finishes when buying brand new and that October was when the announcement was going to be made. Marlan head on the 803 and that its possibly the biggest update since Nautilus are the other things I have heard. Could all be made up though.

[TimbaLand]

803s with Marlan head will look very disproportional

[TomScrut]

I presume they will change the size/geometry? They could make it a 5 inch FST for example and up the bass crossover frequency?

[Art Vanderlay]

I've also heard that the kevlar driver will be replaced, so there are rumors a plenty.

I suspect that the new 800 series will (finally) sport a new fst mid driver and along with it a new crossover design.

I do like my 800 diamonds but I think it would have been better to use a higher order tweeter crossover without the mechanical phase alignment, as per the Signature 800, which IMHO is the best sounding iteration of the Nautilus 800.

[SoundEngine355]

Found this from the recent industry briefing for the new 800 series due in Sept.

[TomScrut]

Very interesting....

So if we presume that left to right we have 805, 804, 803, 802, 800 then the 803 does look to follow the same design convention to the bigger models, possibly even the 804.

The far left two look to have marlan heads, and the middle one looks to have a smaller marlan head. The left two are a bit harder to work out, the one I think is an 804 looks to have something like a marlan head but not tweeter on top? And if the far left is an 805 it looks big!

[Art Vanderlay]

Looks as though they're aiming at the Middle Eastern market.

[Mikael]

Do you have the link to the news story?

[TomScrut]

I did a Google image search for the posted image and the page on the forum that it was posted on had the image deleted, it was still just lurking on Google

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[SoundEngine355]