Compare B&W 804 Diamonds and 802 Diamonds

[cyisone01]

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on the difference between the two. Is the sound that much better between the two and if so in what way? I have the 804 Diamonds but am unable to audition the 802's. Getting urge to upgrade!!

[stuofsci02]

Yes.. For stereo music there is quite the difference..

[Stilgar]

The difference in spherical structure for MF + carbon tweeter + matrix housing design

[Skyblue]

The 802s are in a whole different league. Price and quality wise. Bigger soundstage, better and deeper base. Better mids... They are faboulous speakers, but they will reward good quality amps.

[cyisone01]

They will be driven with decent amps for now but I plan on upgrading my amps as money allows. Do those of you who have heard the two feel they are worth the extra cash? And what amp would you suggest down the road. They will be used for both 2 channel and 7.1 HT.

[Antus]

I have 804Diamond, and my parents has 802D (last generation) the difference is quite big. (bigger than i'd expected)

the 802D disappear in the space much better than 804Diamond, thus better imaging, on the upper midrange/lower tweeter frequency, 802D is more refine than 804Diamond, which can hear slightly midrange cone breakup distortion around 3000hz to 5000hz.

lower frequency 802D wins hand down, of course, with the twin 8 inch woofer. however, if you are looking for slam and in your face bass, u will need to add subwoofer or go 800Diamond.

for amps, the newer generation of 800 series are quite efficient, i was using 100W/8ohm, 200W/4ohm, simaudio amp to drive both in a 400sqft room with ease.

[leo2498]

I have 804Diamond, and my parents has 802D (last generation) the difference is quite big. (bigger than i'd expected)

the 802D disappear in the space much better than 804Diamond, thus better imaging, on the upper midrange/lower tweeter frequency, 802D is more refine than 804Diamond, which can hear slightly midrange cone breakup distortion around 3000hz to 5000hz.

lower frequency 802D wins hand down, of course, with the twin 8 inch woofer. however, if you are looking for slam and in your face bass, u will need to add subwoofer or go 800Diamond.

for amps, the newer generation of 800 series are quite efficient, i was using 100W/8ohm, 200W/4ohm, simaudio amp to drive both in a 400sqft room with ease.

Well guys when I read the last message I wondering how much this statement will be true ” The 802D disappear in the space much better than 804Diamond, thus better imaging, on the upper midrange/lower tweeter frequency, 802D is more refine than 804Diamond, which can hear slightly midrange cone breakup distortion around 3000hz to 5000hz”
I wondering if the room not have the fault, don’t get me wrong I think that the 802 is a wonderful speaker and when I was auditioning it I felt a huge difference between the 804D vs 802Di too but the room was a bigger room and I’m thinking that maybe it was not a fair comparison because maybe in a small room the huge difference could be reduced, what do you think?

[Kal Rubinson]

Yup. Bigger room is big influence.

[Antus]

i agree it might be room that's the difference, however, my room is not that much different from my parent's room, mine is like 400sqft, theirs is like 450sqft. both are regular living room layout.

to be honest, i was surprised by the sound quality differences, both are using diamond/kevlor/rohesell drivers. except the woofer size , tweeter and kevlor are identical... why they sounds so different?

these are few differences i found. more imput welcome.
1. the malin head in 802 reflect less soundwave than 804D, plus, malin material is very stiff (it is similier man made stone material used for kitchen)that it doesn't vibrate as much like wooden box. (while playing, i put hand on the malin head and couldn't feel much vibration, 804D vibrate quite a lot by comparison)
2. the midrange crossover on 802D is 2nd order low pass vs. 1st order on 804D. by using 2nd order low pass, the kevlor woofer roll off faster on high frequency. (i think this might be the 3000-5000Hz cone breakup distortion i heard on 804Diamond)
3. 802D use better quality resistor (metal film) vs. regular wireround on 804Diamond. (result in better midrange sound)
4. 804D woofer crossover use bipoler cap vs. MCap on 802D. (i am still evaulating the effect on this one)

overall, I think 802D/Diamond is a much better speaker than 804Diamond. does it worth double the price? i think yes. If you are in a debate to upgrade amp or speaker for few thousand dollars. I would suggest upgrade speaker.

[beden1]

It would also depend on how often you just listen to music. I've had my 804D/HTM4D with dual subs setup for well over a year now and I have not even thought I was missing out on anything by not having the 802Dis for HT.

I have a separate stereo system, and if I were to replace my stereo speakers, I would definitely look for something with larger woofers than those in the 802Dis.

[leo2498]

i agree it might be room that's the difference, however, my room is not that much different from my parent's room, mine is like 400sqft, theirs is like 450sqft. both are regular living room layout.

to be honest, i was surprised by the sound quality differences, both are using diamond/kevlor/rohesell drivers. except the woofer size , tweeter and kevlor are identical... why they sounds so different?

these are few differences i found. more imput welcome.
1. the malin head in 802 reflect less soundwave than 804D, plus, malin material is very stiff (it is similier man made stone material used for kitchen)that it doesn't vibrate as much like wooden box. (while playing, i put hand on the malin head and couldn't feel much vibration, 804D vibrate quite a lot by comparison)
2. the midrange crossover on 802D is 2nd order low pass vs. 1st order on 804D. by using 2nd order low pass, the kevlor woofer roll off faster on high frequency. (i think this might be the 3000-5000Hz cone breakup distortion i heard on 804Diamond)
3. 802D use better quality resistor (metal film) vs. regular wireround on 804Diamond. (result in better midrange sound)
4. 804D woofer crossover use bipoler cap vs. MCap on 802D. (i am still evaulating the effect on this one)

overall, I think 802D/Diamond is a much better speaker than 804Diamond. does it worth double the price? i think yes. If you are in a debate to upgrade amp or speaker for few thousand dollars. I would suggest upgrade speaker.

Could you tell me how are the layout of you room? LxHXW

[Briz vegas]

You can't compare 2 speakers in different rooms with different ancillaries. You hear a system, not just the speakers.

I have done 804 vs 802, the difference depends on a lot of factors even when the only thing you change is the speakers. 802 can be anything from marginally to significantly better if the ancillaries and room favour the 802.

[Antus]

my room is around 21 wide, 18 deep 10 height
my parents is around 23*23*10

my parents has 802D for 4 years now. i was quite familier with the sound. i just had my 804Diamond for a year.

[leo2498]

my room is around 21 wide, 18 deep 10 height
my parents is around 23*23*10

my parents has 802D for 4 years now. i was quite familier with the sound. i just had my 804Diamond for a year.

I was supposed it, I think that your room could qualify like a mid size to bigger room so a 804D maybe is not the optimal speaker for your type of room, if you put a 803Di in that room and compare it with the 802 that is a close comparison but I think that the result will be a little different if I put my 804D in a small room (my room is a small room 12x10x10) with the 802Di it’s possible that this huge difference will be not huge, any way I’m close to have my deal with my dealer in a 802Di so if I can change the speaker I will let you know what is the result in that small room for a big 802Di.

[leo2498]

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on the difference between the two. Is the sound that much better between the two and if so in what way? I have the 804 Diamonds but am unable to audition the 802's. Getting urge to upgrade!!

I'm sorry if I'm diverting your thread of the main topic but maybe my point will help you, BTW how could you define your room maybe this will help with your doubt.

[beden1]

My family room is 32' L by 18' W with a cathedral ceiling. This is where I have my HT system and the 804Dis with the HTM4D sounds excellent for HT, IMO.

[cyisone01]

My room is about 25 feet wide by about 40 feet long. 8 foot ceilings. Carpeted floors and the system in on a end wall.

[Rod#S]

Wow that's a huge room, skip that's it's an entire house. I'm thinking the 804's would be lost in there. How far back is your seating? If it's a long ways back then the 803's and up are probably what you should be looking at. If you happen to be close then the 804's might do the trick.

[Antus]

I was supposed it, I think that your room could qualify like a mid size to bigger room so a 804D maybe is not the optimal speaker for your type of room, if you put a 803Di in that room and compare it with the 802 that is a close comparison but I think that the result will be a little different if I put my 804D in a small room (my room is a small room 12x10x10) with the 802Di it’s possible that this huge difference will be not huge, any way I’m close to have my deal with my dealer in a 802Di so if I can change the speaker I will let you know what is the result in that small room for a big 802Di.

for ur room size, 804Diamond might just works better. But if i were u, i will still get 802Diamond. otherwise, the upgrade urge will drive poeple crazy.

[Antus]

My room is about 25 feet wide by about 40 feet long. 8 foot ceilings. Carpeted floors and the system in on a end wall.

for your room size, u might seriously consider 800D and a huge power amplifier.

[leo2498]

for your room size, u might seriously consider 800D and a huge power amplifier.

Agreed, your room is big enought and the 804di is not the optimal speaker, the 802 will be a better option.

[dan87951]

I would do 800's in a room that large with a couple of DB1 subs. Its hard to fill a room that large with bottom end (bass).

[cyisone01]

I am about 15-18 feet from speakers.

[Rod#S]

That's a long ways back. I would definitely be looking at the larger speakers and with a room that size, I can defnitely see the reason why people are suggesting the 800's.

[beden1]

My room is about 25 feet wide by about 40 feet long. 8 foot ceilings. Carpeted floors and the system in on a end wall.

The large room with 8' ceiling, combined with wall-to-wall carpeting and family room type over stuffed furniture is no doubt sucking a lot of sound out of your room.

I've played with my room for years (since 1985) trying to get the best balance of sound for both HT and stereo listening. In the end, I've been able to come up with excellent HT setups, but stereo listening has been the challenge. That's why I decided to set up a separate stereo system in my basement and dedicated the family room for HT.

My family room system is set up on the long end of the room like yours. Our primary seating positions are on the middle sides of the room because of two door openings at either end of the one side. I also have a seat positioned in the middle at the far end of the room closer to the opposite back wall. This is the best seating position for any type of listening (my cathedral ceiling may have something to do with this). Our hardwood cathedral ceiling helps to carry more sound throughout the room, probably more so than your 8' ceiling that is more restrictive.

The first challenge is to get enough bass volume. I currently have dual 15" sub woofers set on raised granite bases (the raised granite bases with sound anchors helps to disperse the bass plus stops rattles and buzzing throughout the wood framed house) on either side of the front main speakers. This works for me because I have hard wood floors and 4' of bare hardwood around the entire room with an oriental rug in the center of the room. We used to have a rug covering more of the floor when our kids were growing up to protect the hardwood. With this larger rug and less reflective surface, I had one sub positioned at the far opposite end corner of the room, and the other sub positioned at the other far end corner near the system. This setup gave me full bass throughout the room. You may have to add more than two sub woofers to your system for more bass dispersion. One sub is definitely not going to suffice. I would start with two and play with positioning, and then see how it sounds.

When we had more carpeting, I had ceiling speakers to fill the sound for the entire room, along with the front main speakers. I had a front pair positioned in the upper corners; a surround pair positioned near the middle edge of the ceiling; and a back pair of speakers in the upper corners. With the front main and center channel speakers, 3 pairs of ceiling speakers, and the two sub woofers, the system produced sound filling the entire room for HT. This system also sounded very full for listening to music, but it was not true stereo listening that I personally prefer. It was a very good setup for surround music listening.

I also failed to mention that we do not have window drapes in the room. Three walls of the room are filled with large roll out windows with blinds built into them. These help the room to be a bit livelier. If you have drapes on your windows, these will be sucking more sound out of your very large room. Keep the drapes full open when you are using your system. (it would be the opposite if your room was too reflective).

Now, with more hardwood flooring exposed and less furniture, I have a more traditional 5.2 setup. You can look up my information to see what I have for my PA system. I now only have one pair of surround speakers on the back upper corners of the room, along with the front pair of speakers, the center channel speaker (very important that this speaker is positioned properly height wise and can handle the room by emitting enough output and clarity) and dual sub woofers. The Marantz processor has also helped to correct the room characteristics through Audyssey.

IMO, your overall sound output, due to your room size and layout, will not benefit that much by larger speakers or neccessarily more power, but will be helped more by how well you disperse the sound throughout the room.

[cyisone01]

Outstanding advice!

[cyisone01]

Ok - think I have made a decision! I am going to go with the 802's. I made this decision based on the size of the room as well as the potential options I have going forward. I was able to do a comparison between the speakers with my dealer and the sound quality was night and day. I also feel if I do go to a dedicated stereo system down the road I will have the speakers which will give me the best chance at filling the space with the very nice sound.

I am going to have to wait until after Christmas so if you think I am being crazy feel free to chime in!

[Rod#S]

I think you made the right decision. I know they are expensive and that can be tough to swallow, it was for me but once I got them home and heard how good they were all the stress of the cost went away.

[cyisone01]

That helps a ton! How long have you had them and what do you love about yours?

[Skyblue]

I think you made the right decision. I know they are expensive and that can be tough to swallow, it was for me but once I got them home and heard how good they were all the stress of the cost went away.

I agree. It really is a cost issue. If you have the money, its a nobrainer.

[Rod#S]

That helps a ton! How long have you had them and what do you love about yours?

I have had them now since April or May of 2011. For one thing I love the look of them, to this day I just find myself staring at them :B As for the sound, it's just so clear and for lack of a better word 3 dimensional, it's just so open, voices in music give the impression that the singer is in the room with you, it's uncanny. For music the bass is very tight, never boomy and can go quite low but for home theater you still need a decicated subwoofer of course.

Now that I have no regrets with my decision to buy I'll be doing it again in the new year with either another pair of these or possibly even the 800's just to get that extra bit of performance I keep hearing people talk about from the midrange due to the different crossovers. This is the music lover in me talking of course when thinking of the 800's :P

[cyisone01]

I am so excited I about peed my pants!

[cyisone01]

What color should I get?

[HedgeHog]

What color should I get?

for pants? :rofl:


Rosenut is classy and piano black is elegant. Depends on what you have in your space. Personally, I never cared for the cherry as it's too light to be consider cherry.

BTW, have you auditioned other brands? At 12-15K, there are a few options.

[cyisone01]

I have reviewed many but mainly what my local high end guy has to offer.

[cyisone01]

So I have ordered the 802 diamonds and now I am considering upgrading my amps. I need 7 channels for home theater but also listen to 3 channel a lot. Would I be satisfied with something like the McIntosh MC8207 or should I have a 2 channel amp for the fronts and then a 5 channel for the remainder or is it recommend the fronts and center be powered by the same amp?

[mjb]

I prefer the 2ch for the fronts and separate 5 ch for the surrounds option as its more flexible. But the MC8207 is a fine amp, and I'm sure you'd be extremely happy with it. Congratulations on the 802's btw.

[RebelMan]

The 802D2 is more majestic sounding than the 804D2 and the differences are going to be notable but not night and day. As Briz alluded to early it's the sum of the parts that are key to getting the most from your music. It should also be said that the room's influence comes down to one very simple issue... reverberation. A larger room's influence is much easier to control than a smaller one but outstanding results can be achieved either way, provided the room is at least large enough to accommodate speaker placement guidelines (6-12 feet).

B&W speakers are recognized for putting on their best when played to sufficient volumes and this goes for the whole line. In this case a larger room will seem to hold an advantage to a smaller one but it only seems that way. The ideal sweet spot is going to be the same no matter which speaker is chosen and the room you choose to listen in. Again, it all comes down to how well the room manages... reverberation.

I find the 802D2 worth its admission price and it ought to please you once home but only if paired well with supporting ancillary equipment and a cooperative room.

[RebelMan]

So I have ordered the 802 diamonds and now I am considering upgrading my amps. I need 7 channels for home theater but also listen to 3 channel a lot. Would I be satisfied with something like the McIntosh MC8207 or should I have a 2 channel amp for the fronts and then a 5 channel for the remainder or is it recommend the fronts and center be powered by the same amp?

If the three speakers up front were identical then you would want them to be driven with the same multi-channel amplifier in order to maintain consistent timbre across the board. Given that is not your case you can exercise some liberty by going with amplifiers from the same family in a 2/5 channel split. The MC8207 will do the job technically but subjectively that would be your call.

[Rod#S]

All monos are the way to go if room and pocket book can allow but few can really do that do so a multi-channel will be in order. If you don't think getting just one amp will do justice to your 802's then I say get a combination of amps where the center is not overlooked. For example I have 2 Bryston 4B-SST's and a 6B-SST, 3 amps all spec'd the same so I'm free to use say the 6B for the LCR and the two 4B's for side and rear surrounds or like what I have done in the past in my old 7 channel arrangement, the L/R driven by one 4B, the 6B driving the center and surrounds with the other 4B driving the rears. I'm currently running 5 channel and am using the two 4B's bi-amped for the L/R and the 6B for the center and surrounds. I personally haven't been running the LCR off of the 6B because if I'm only listening in stereo one of the channels of the 6B will not be getting any use so it makes more sense to have a stereo amp connected for me.

[stevek]

monoblocks all the way up front.god I hope some day I can own a set of diamonds.

[emig5m]

Well guys when I read the last message I wondering how much this statement will be true ” The 802D disappear in the space much better than 804Diamond, thus better imaging, on the upper midrange/lower tweeter frequency, 802D is more refine than 804Diamond, which can hear slightly midrange cone breakup distortion around 3000hz to 5000hz”
I wondering if the room not have the fault, don’t get me wrong I think that the 802 is a wonderful speaker and when I was auditioning it I felt a huge difference between the 804D vs 802Di too but the room was a bigger room and I’m thinking that maybe it was not a fair comparison because maybe in a small room the huge difference could be reduced, what do you think?

I got to hear the 804 Diamond and 802 Diamond in the same room the other day. The 802 has better clarity, imaging, more transparent, and sounds better at lower volumes. You would think that with the same tweeter and midrange driver that they would be nearly the same but they're not. The transparency of the 802... It's hard to explain, but it's like there is no separate drivers or crossover because everything is so integrated together. The detail, not talking about just the treble, but all the way through the midrange. Detail is just more magnified. They also sound so 3D. You'd swear there's a center and surrounds playing - I had to ask the salesmen if they where the only speakers playing. I wouldn't even think about upgrading my 804S to 804Di now that I heard the 804Di and 802Di... Nearly a waste of time (and definite waste of money IMO to jump from the 804S to Di). Yea, the 804Di's treble has more detail and transparency than the 804S, won't argue there, but the 802Di just totally made me hate my system and even made me totally forget the 804Di, lol. I have a hunch that they could make them nearly the same if they wanted to, but I have a gut feeling that they purposely handicap the lower speakers with lesser crossovers because the mid and tweeter drivers are the same, aren't they? Yea I'm sure the cabinet helps but that can't be all there is to it.

Well I would love to have the 802Di and I envy everyone lucky enough to have a pair (that's properly setup) but they're way out of my price range and I really can't justify them because I'm not much of a 2-channel listener anymore. Well I'm sure the benefits can also be heard for home theater, but I only demoed them in 2-channel. 15k... That's a pretty good chunk of coin for a pair of speakers! And then trying to match them with center and surround speakers.... Gotta be in the millionaire club, lol. They perform better than anything else I've ever heard, bare none, but you pay for it!! And the down side is you have to have quality recordings or else you're just watching VHS on a HD screen! :E

[leo2498]

I got to hear the 804 Diamond and 802 Diamond in the same room the other day. The 802 has better clarity, imaging, more transparent, and sounds better at lower volumes. You would think that with the same tweeter and midrange driver that they would be nearly the same but they're not. The transparency of the 802... It's hard to explain, but it's like there is no separate drivers or crossover because everything is so integrated together. The detail, not talking about just the treble, but all the way through the midrange. Detail is just more magnified. They also sound so 3D. You'd swear there's a center and surrounds playing - I had to ask the salesmen if they where the only speakers playing. I wouldn't even think about upgrading my 804S to 804Di now that I heard the 804Di and 802Di... Nearly a waste of time (and definite waste of money IMO to jump from the 804S to Di). Yea, the 804Di's treble has more detail and transparency than the 804S, won't argue there, but the 802Di just totally made me hate my system and even made me totally forget the 804Di, lol. I have a hunch that they could make them nearly the same if they wanted to, but I have a gut feeling that they purposely handicap the lower speakers with lesser crossovers because the mid and tweeter drivers are the same, aren't they? Yea I'm sure the cabinet helps but that can't be all there is to it.

Well I would love to have the 802Di and I envy everyone lucky enough to have a pair (that's properly setup) but they're way out of my price range and I really can't justify them because I'm not much of a 2-channel listener anymore. Well I'm sure the benefits can also be heard for home theater, but I only demoed them in 2-channel. 15k... That's a pretty good chunk of coin for a pair of speakers! And then trying to match them with center and surround speakers.... Gotta be in the millionaire club, lol. They perform better than anything else I've ever heard, bare none, but you pay for it!! And the down side is you have to have quality recordings or else you're just watching VHS on a HD screen! :E

after one year of have the 804Di in my room, I can say that the difference between this and the S are huge(the midrage is another league and the xover too), much more than the difference price, if you can bring your "s" to your dealer or get a home test you can see what I talk about it, yes the 802Di are better speaker but it is twice a 804Di price too so maybe you are wrong with your statement.

[style]

Hi,

I'm with Mike: a stereo system with a amplifier and another for the HC. the Homecinema system "at the top" is not for music (not bluray concert and of course the last movie ) nice to listen. (state of the art?)

I will go with a 802d2 without other speaker. (the dimension of the room is not so important - of course if you have 15m2 is another "thread"..)

Personaly I like a stereo for my first priority = music in 2 channel with a 802d2 and a "little" 5 channel for the movie.

anyway invest $$ for a 802d2 make sense vs the 804d2 imho!!!

style

[nimrodasas]

i always wanted to audition 804 vs 802 ..
finally i found a place that i can audition both.
i listened to music i'm very familiar with..
i have 804 di at my parent's home.
i wanted so much to sell my 804 and get 802 before i have a chance to audition.
i really think that the diffrence in small room is not really noticable
do you self a favor dont buy speakers with out audition it before.